ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Tech => Parts, Mods And Hacks => Topic started by: TheNorwegian on December 16, 2014, 04:26:40 AM
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Background:
I ride to work every day in rush hour. Traffic is often so slow that I drive between cars on the dotted line between two lanes of traffic going the same direction. Until now I've ridden a combustion engine that I could trottle up to alert cars that I'm trying to pass them and they kindly make some space for me. (This is common practice, both legally and culturally here in Norway).
Some times using the trottle doesn't work, so I blink the headlight. Often the car driver in front of me doesn't notice me still, and I have to stay back until the coast is clear.
When riding an electric motorcycle, the problem is even bigger because of the lack of sound. Using the horn to get peoples attention is to me way to intrusive and rude. So I'm thinking of wiring up a second button I can hit to engage a more friendly sound that gets the close cars attention that I kindly would like to pass you please.
The question:
Do you guys have a suggestion to what kind of sound this could be?
To get you started:
Roadrunner classic meep meep
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKnHYcSG9Po (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKnHYcSG9Po)
Metal Gear Solid (Game) Alert sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P5qbcRAXVk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P5qbcRAXVk)
Classic bicycle bell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLQ9zPp0t4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLQ9zPp0t4)
None of these seem fitting to me. The sound should be something that even if you've never heard it in traffic before, it gets your attention, without being annoying. It would be really cool if it helped showcase the personality of the bike.
Compilation of suggestions:
La Cucaracha suggested by user Doug S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0pf_0cFbVo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0pf_0cFbVo)
Hornit (specialized product!) suggested by user kingcharles
www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140 (http://www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140)
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I kind of like the cycle bell and other drivers might appreciate the bell, too. It is non-threatening, familiar and may bring back old childhood memories. ;)
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I don't think a bell will work. They are having to fit special low frequency sirens because modern cars are so well insulated and everyone has the stereo or ipod on the go that they don't even notice emergency vehicles. I don't buy the loud pipes save lives movement because most car drivers wouldn't notice you firing a .45 through their back window.
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I suspect for cars something that flashes in the wing mirrors might help, perhaps with just a hint of blue? I often think that Xenon beams have the right hue...
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My favorite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0pf_0cFbVo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0pf_0cFbVo)
Though maybe that's because I'm a California boy.
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I suspect for cars something that flashes in the wing mirrors might help, perhaps with just a hint of blue? I often think that Xenon beams have the right hue...
I've thought about using color. When blinking, I direct the light into the cars wing mirrors like you say - and when it's sunny, it's like nothing happends. I like the idea of coloring the light - but I'm concerned that it may easily play on peoples reaction to a emergency vehicle.
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My favorite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0pf_0cFbVo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0pf_0cFbVo)
Though maybe that's because I'm a California boy.
Good call! After a little Google searching, this seems to be possible with a 5 horn+relay config:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/la-cucaracha (http://www.ebay.com/bhp/la-cucaracha)
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I added a simple bicycle bell on my Zero to warn pedestrians and cyclist when I'm approaching at low speed. Like you say, the message is not: "get out of my way", but a simple and polite: "heads up, I'm here". Wouldn't work for cars though.
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I don't know about the legality of using some of these sounds on a civilian vehicle, but some of the horn sounds for emergency vehicles are pretty attention-getting without being too awfully alarming.
See the examples at :42, :54, and 2:36 for what I'm talking about (not the wailer sirens but the other sounds).
http://youtu.be/TPo3iZoRhoc (http://youtu.be/TPo3iZoRhoc)
These modules can usually be found pretty cheaply on ebay and such.
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Put a man's voice from the Bronx saying "Hey! Hey you! Git outta tha way! I'm movin' here!"
Or to be polite, a female voice "Excuse me, pardon me, can I pass please?"
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m.youtube.com/watch?v=3k2pb3UZiHo (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3k2pb3UZiHo)
That will work [emoji1]
But this may be more useful, works on batteries and is easy to install:
www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140 (http://www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140)
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But this may be more useful, works on batteries and is easy to install:
www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140 (http://www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140)
Dang. Winner. I kinda' want the kids version too. :D
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But this may be more useful, works on batteries and is easy to install:
www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140 (http://www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140)
I think you just won this thread. This is exactly what I'm looking for! Someone has already done the job of orchestrating a suitable sound and even a shipping product! After searching some more online, I found that there are tones of these products (example: http://www.aliexpress.com/popular/electric-bicycle-horn.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/popular/electric-bicycle-horn.html)
So the question is now, which one gives a friendly sound, instead of a distress signal. The Hornit actually seems pretty good!
Thanks kingcharles, I think this might be it!
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Check out sound racer too; I actually got one for my d zero but never installed it: can be programmed with any sound linked to throttle and via an amp, volume adjusted to suit any situation
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I'm a fan of the bell, as a measure of eco-friendliness (unless one's power comes from unfiltered coal plants) of course a thunderclap with a rumble would also be befitting. Announcing verbally "On the Left".
The US government is discussing mandatory noise.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/SampleSounds (http://www.nhtsa.gov/SampleSounds)
Once mandatory noise is the case - I'd try a loop of valve clicking, piston rod clattering, death coughing, exhaust dragging accompanied by the rock ballad song of my choice.
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I am not sure that I would want the U.S. Government to decide what sort of noise I should make while riding my electric motorcycle. It would likely be something like "vote for ........." ::)
On the other hand, they might mandate a clown squeeze-bulb honk. :o
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It passed in 2010 - vehicles when travelling under 18 mph. US "Pedestrian Safety Act" (and you thought there was "gridlock") to be enacted in 5 years.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/Quiet_Vehicles_NPRM.pdf (http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/Quiet_Vehicles_NPRM.pdf) is the nhtsa's plan - detailing you had 60 days to comment. (the notice was posted in the basement, behind a door signed "Beware of leopard")
Wikipedia:
Japan issued guidelines for such warning devices in January 2010 and the U.S. approved legislation on December 2010.[1][2]
The European Parliament approved legislation that requires the mandatory use of "Acoustic Vehicle Alerting Systems" for all new electric and hybrid electric vehicles within 5 years.[3]
NHSTA STATEMENT ON THE MINIMUM SOUND REQUIRMENT:
U.S. Department of Transportation Proposes New Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles Monday, January 7, 2013
Proposal Would Allow All Pedestrians to Detect Vehicles that Do Not Make Sound
WASHINGTON – As required by the bipartisan Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act of 2010 (PSEA), the U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is proposing that hybrid and electric vehicles meet minimum sound standards in order to help make all pedestrians more aware of the approaching vehicles.
“Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep everyone using our nation’s streets and roadways safe, whether they are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and visually impaired,†said U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.
Electric and hybrid vehicles do not rely on traditional gas or diesel-powered engines at low speeds, making them much quieter and their approach difficult to detect. The proposed standard, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141, would fulfill Congress’ mandate in the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act that hybrid and electric vehicles meet minimum sound requirements so that pedestrians are able to detect the presence, direction and location of these vehicles when they are operating at low speeds.
“Our proposal would allow manufacturers the flexibility to design different sounds for different makes and models while still providing an opportunity for pedestrians, bicyclists and the visually impaired to detect and recognize a vehicle and make a decision about whether it is safe to cross the street,†said NHTSA Administrator David Strickland.
The sounds would need to be detectable under a wide range of street noises and other ambient background sounds when the vehicle is traveling under 18 miles per hour. At 18 miles per hour and above, vehicles make sufficient noise to allow pedestrians and bicyclists to detect them without added sound. Each automaker would have a significant range of choices about the sounds it chooses for its vehicles, but the characteristics of those sounds would need to meet certain minimum requirements. In addition, each vehicle of the same make and model would need to emit the same sound or set of sounds.
NHTSA estimates that if this proposal were implemented there would be 2,800 fewer pedestrian and pedalcyclist injuries over the life of each model year of hybrid cars, trucks and vans and low speed vehicles, as compared to vehicles without sound.
NHTSA will send the proposal to the Federal Register today. Upon publication, the public will have 60 days to submit comments on this NHTSA action.
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I think I will buy my next electric motorcycle right before these government noise regulations get implemented. What I like about my Zero is that it doesn't make any noise and (besides) I haven't run over any pedestrians yet. Where do they get these pedestrian fatalities by quiet EV's "estimates" anyway? ??? I figure it is your responsibility as a rider or driver not to run over any pedestrians or bicyclists while moving under 18 mph in a shopping mall parking lot. :o
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I think I will buy my next electric motorcycle right before these government noise regulations get implemented.
I wouldn't get too concerned about it. I'm guessing it won't be too hard to disable/remove whatever noisemakers are installed. I can't believe a cop is ever going to ticket you for being too quiet.
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I think I will buy my next electric motorcycle right before these government noise regulations get implemented.
I wouldn't get too concerned about it. I'm guessing it won't be too hard to disable/remove whatever noisemakers are installed. I can't believe a cop is ever going to ticket you for being too quiet.
That is a good point. I can remember when the government DOT, during the mid-1970's required motorcycle turn indicators to make a beeping sound like they did in cars (before clicking sounds were in style). Those little noise makers were the first thing disabled by most owners upon hearing the beeping when at a stop waiting to make a left turn. ;)
Maybe they should make us install a muffler on our bikes that makes a loud "potato, potato" sound as we ride along. No doubt pedestrians will recognize that noise and quickly get out of our way. ::)
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Personally, I am looking forward to making my Zero DS sound like a TIE Fighter (my soundracer kit is on its way). Lemons into lemonade, or water into wine; pick your metaphor but the fact is you can make the bike sound like the coolest thing in the world now.
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Personally, I am looking forward to making my Zero DS sound like a TIE Fighter (my soundracer kit is on its way).
Dude, link to the product you ordered?
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Personally, I am looking forward to making my Zero DS sound like a TIE Fighter (my soundracer kit is on its way).
Dude, link to the product you ordered?
Here: http://eveess.com/evsm-2/ (http://eveess.com/evsm-2/)
I think he's just barely able to fill out orders right now for Zero customers. I first contacted him months ago, but hopefully the response now just means that he's ready to ship the new versions.
Also, my audio sample solution is fair use, but he cannot violate copyright as a seller of a product. Just FYI; I have to customize the firmware myself.
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How about sounds from animals / birds. It be unusual and make people curious to where its coming from because not expected.
http://www.birdsinbackyards.net/birds/featured/Top-40-Bird-Songs (http://www.birdsinbackyards.net/birds/featured/Top-40-Bird-Songs)
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Have you watched the videos on the soundracer website? I'm sorry but they sound terrible. Its like a game sound from the Nintendo.
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Here: http://eveess.com/evsm-2/ (http://eveess.com/evsm-2/)
Also, my audio sample solution is fair use, but he cannot violate copyright as a seller of a product. Just FYI; I have to customize the firmware myself.
BrianTRice, Could you please share with us how you plan to do this? How does it work? Is it prerecorded audio bits that the hardware switchen between for emulate a dynamic sound? How do you go about to make a "copy" of the sound of an engine or similar?
And how do you go about modifying the firmware to store those sounds that you've created?
A TIE fighter could be cool, would love to see a video when you're done!
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I use a skwonky bugle horn from walmart for lane splitting on my '15ds in california.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ventura-Bugle-Air-Horn/11065111?action=product_interest&action_type=title&placement_id=irs-2-m1&strategy=PWVAV&visitor_id=HO8yvnoM8ASsYySkGPH_JA&category=&client_guid=5856187a-5eee-4611-8b5f-4591ee6203a8&customer_id_enc=&config_id=2&parent_item_id=41621034&parent_anchor_item_id=41621034&guid=9c19cafc-8521-4b25-8c5e-7e6f37388785&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ventura-Bugle-Air-Horn/11065111?action=product_interest&action_type=title&placement_id=irs-2-m1&strategy=PWVAV&visitor_id=HO8yvnoM8ASsYySkGPH_JA&category=&client_guid=5856187a-5eee-4611-8b5f-4591ee6203a8&customer_id_enc=&config_id=2&parent_item_id=41621034&parent_anchor_item_id=41621034&guid=9c19cafc-8521-4b25-8c5e-7e6f37388785&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n)
Its loud, and its such a funny nonthreatening sound that I get a bunch of laughs out of it, and people see that you are there.
Biggest problem is that its hard to honk it, and lane split with one hand.
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I also use the "Hornit" and find it works well in slow staffic and for pedestrians.
{people actually smile when they hear the sound it produces: http://www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140 (http://www.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140)
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Here: http://eveess.com/evsm-2/ (http://eveess.com/evsm-2/)
Also, my audio sample solution is fair use, but he cannot violate copyright as a seller of a product. Just FYI; I have to customize the firmware myself.
BrianTRice, Could you please share with us how you plan to do this? How does it work? Is it prerecorded audio bits that the hardware switchen between for emulate a dynamic sound? How do you go about to make a "copy" of the sound of an engine or similar?
And how do you go about modifying the firmware to store those sounds that you've created?
A TIE fighter could be cool, would love to see a video when you're done!
The short answer is that there's a SIM-card-sized memory chip and a manual specifying what to name the WAV files to put on it for different conditions (idle, accelerating below 3500 RPMs, accelerating above that, and deceleration).
I'm extracting the sound files from a paid-for copy of the TIE Fighter video game from the 90s. There are some good free tools for sound format manipulation.
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I love my HornIt: http://www.thehornit.com/the-hornit-db140/the-hornit-db140.html (http://www.thehornit.com/the-hornit-db140/the-hornit-db140.html)
People smile when I pass by and use it
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I use a cheap dual air horn, meant for a car, on my GSXR. It's very loud, but you only need to give it a quick push of the button, and it alerts car drivers that you are there.
It was funny, one time, when I did a road trip with some friends, and one of the guys didn't know I had an air horn on my bike. When he first heard it, he thought the sound was coming from a car, and was looking all around trying to see who beeped at him!
I'd like to have an electric horn(Wolo make some, but are pricey) with the "Dixie" tune (Dukes of Hazard) on my e-bike (I have "Dixie" air horns on my car)? But maybe then some people will look for a flying car, not a bike on the road.
Wolo have a range of horns for cars, but might be too bulky for a bike. http://wolo-usa.com/spec.htm (http://wolo-usa.com/spec.htm)