ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Electric Terry on March 05, 2018, 09:12:39 PM
-
So the forum has been down here for the last few days and now is back up.
6 years ago it was here and elmoto.net that people talked about Zero's but elmoto.net lost a lot of peoples trust when in 2009 or 2010 the entire site and all its posts and content were wiped out and lost. So in 2010 I only started posting here. By 2015 the facebook group "Zero Motorcycles Owners Group" began growing, while for years it held under 100 members. The past year it is growing at about 100 Zero owners a month or over 3 per day. It is about to cross 3000 Zero owners today.
If you don't use facebook and have noticed the posts here seem less and less frequent that is why. Because of facebooks notification system it makes replying to comments very easy and timely as well.
I think the only 2 people I haven't seen post there are Richard230 and DougS, but perhaps there are others. Make sure you at least join the group so you have somewhere to go should there be another extended outage here, but also I think you will perhaps prefer it.
If you don't have a facebook account yet it takes less than a minute to create one so please don't let that be an excuse. Starting an account doesn't mean the government is going to track everything you do. Ahhh there's a 3rd person I haven't seen there. Shadow, I think you aren't on facebook either and I seem to remember some conspiracy theory about why. But I know, they want you to think that's what it is. It's ok, I understand.
For the rest of you, see you there. 8)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/
-
My family members are on Facebook, but not me. I don't trust that organization, or Twitter, either, as I don't care for their terms of service. The same goes for the Google Play Store, which means that my cell phone no longer gets any automatic updates, since I decline to agree with their conditions' That is fine with me. I'll stick with internet forums like this one, thank you very much. :)
-
This is bit of a sidebar. I'm on the Facebook site, but really prefer the forums here. It's easier for me to keep track of the threads and search through older posts, where the information gets lost more easily in the shuffle on FB, at least more me.
-
That is becoming a VERY interesting and important questions Terry!
Where is the best way to share about our favorite subjects.. It seem like a slow battle between media over years... that become more and more polarizing ...
Often I also wonder myself witch media should i use?.. The one that reach the most people?, the one that is the most safe and less open to big brother?, the one witch is the easiest for finding informations quickly?.. etc
We the members here are part of a big REVOLUTION by choosing ELectric instead of GAS. It's often a bit more complicated overall but we make the effort because we BELIEVE in it. For me , Revolution and "Big brother" seem a very curious mix... should we pay attention to that?...
I think we all one day or another wonder about that... witch media to use?.. how could we be controlled by big brother without even knowing that?.. what influence it does on us.. how important it is....
I've been Guru on the Endless-Sphere forum for years, since 2007 when we were only 207 members... today we are over 34 000... I am less posting on the E-S and now more on FB only because it's a reflex for me now.. but i did not choose to select that.. Should i think seriously about that?... probably... it would mean i'm not fully paying attention to that... maybe because i'm sometime a bit lazy.. but.... :-\
I think that is a serious question we should adress before it's too late and that the "choice" is no more an option.
Doc
-
I have a Facebook account....I think. They still pelt me with "Someone changed their status" messages on a regular basis, anyhow.
-
Facebook is a nice second option but is nothing compared to this forum for categorized info.
I think it's more of a troll bridge and you can't keep up with the postings.
I've checked the owners page out and there are some good posts but Facebook also wants you to join just to read, that's a bit of an over reach in my opinion.
I wish EMF would be up online more but I can live with it as long as it stays open (opinions) and free (money).
-
After years of ignoring EMs, or consigning them to the scooter thread, ADVRider.com now has a dedicated electric motorcycle forum. I now have 3 places to visit daily.
-
After years of ignoring EMs, or consigning them to the scooter thread, ADVRider.com now has a dedicated electric motorcycle forum. I now have 3 places to visit daily.
And now so do I! Tricky...
-
Use stuff for what it's designed. Forums to share info and ask questions, facebook for showing off and telling people what you ate. I'm not interested in the latter and have no facebook account and from what I hear around me that gives me a few hours a week extra to go ride the Zero instead of weeding through useless messages.
-
Use stuff for what it's designed. Forums to share info and ask questions, facebook for showing off and telling people what you ate. I'm not interested in the latter and have no facebook account and from what I hear around me that gives me a few hours a week extra to go ride the Zero instead of weeding through useless messages.
That's a VERY cynical viewpoint which I happen to share. :) Facebook always struck me as the "cool kids" party I never had any interest in being invited to.
-
Downtime is tracked at the EMF thread:
Electric Motorcycle Forum FAQ (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6690.0)
I note that there could be a trend of EMF going down every 3 months for a few days at a time.
-
Use stuff for what it's designed. Forums to share info and ask questions, facebook for showing off and telling people what you ate.
Telling people what you ate? When was the last time you used facebook? Those people moved to Instagram 5 years ago. Instagram is now for sharing pictures only now and facebook has been the platform for sharing ideas, news, and projects with pictures and descriptions. If you have a "friend" who posts pictures of food, you can always "unfriend" them to keep your newsfeed completely useful and informative.
The "kids" today will not join facebook, they use snapchat. I asked some kids why they don't use facebook, and they said "ewwww! no way! my parents are on facebook!" With more than a quarter of the worlds complete population using it to exchange information and ideas, and over 80% of people in the US, with those age groups under 18 and over 65 showing lower numbers, while the age group 25-34 facebook reports 58 million users in the US, which is pretty much everyone in the US 25-34!! While the age group 35-44 and 45 to 54 just showing slight progressive declines.
Just saying while 10 years ago many of the fears above you guys mention might have been considered valid, it's completely different today. I'm just encouraging you to try something new, and if you still don't like it, then don't use it again, but at least try. If you're not open minded to consider a different viewpoint, how are you any different than the uneducated, racist, redneck wearing a red MAGA hat made in China who you ask "Why do you like someone who lies all the time?" And they reply "no he doesn't! He never lies!" And you ask if they ever watch anything on TV besides Fox news, and they say "of course not, it's the only station that tells the truth! Plus I lost my remote years ago, I watch Fox News 24/7!" All you can do is shake your head and walk away as you feel they are beyond help.
My point is when you make up your mind, the truth about something can change, but if you've convinced yourself of something and aren't open to adjust that decision based on changing facts as time goes on, you will be stuck on the incorrect side of things and not realize it, yet still believe you are correct. Does that make sense?
Just be open minded to new ideas and here in 2018 all of you try once more is all I ask. Theres 10-20 times more Zero Motorcycle activity on the Zero facebook owners group now than there is here and it's growing more and more everyday it seems. While a year ago it was perhaps equal, and 2 years ago it was more active here, I'm just saying the times are changing and if the trend continues, you will be out of the loop if you only look here for new information in the near future.
My point was to just inform everyone who is not on the group, that there is perhaps 2000% more activity on the FB group and new owners each day posting pictures of their new bikes and asking simple questions and we all love it, and then there are the complicated issues which has been a huge discussion with perhaps 50 to 100 posts or comments about the concerns over the new firmware. I think there are 2 threads here that haven't been talked about in days or weeks.
Be open to try something new, as the trend is shifting in that direction, and if the trend continues, a year from now it will only be more obvious. Use both, don't avoid EMF by any means, but if I poll the hundreds of new 2017 and 2018 Zero owners on the group, I doubt too many of them are even registered here. I have been noticing this trend for a while, and it's becoming more and more apparent all the time. And after the most recent EMF shutdown, I felt I'd share as if you don't use both you don't know.
I've spent enough time explaining it, and repeated the important points multiple times, you can do what you want and ignore the facts if you want. Just try not to act like a Trump supporter does is all I'm saying. All of us on this forum are smart enough to use our brains and not be incorrect just because we are that stubborn. Or at least most of us are. There is no harm in trying something new, at least for a day. If you can't bring yourself to do that, well, I don't even know what to say. Wear your MAGA hat proudly I guess is all I can.
edit: sorry for bringing Trump into this, I was just using him as something everyone can agree on as ridiculous as no one on this forum being someone who is open minded enough to try something new. Because if you weren't that capable, you would have never bought a Zero to begin with. So I was just trying to drive that point in with something we are all unfortunately way too familiar with.
-
The disadvantage to Facebook is the posts appear "willy-nilly" based on whatever algorithm the developers decided to throw into production without testing it first (kind of like Zero with their recent software updates, by the way... whatever happened to testing and QA I wonder?). It is also harder to search for particular subjects. Forums like this one are better organized for that kind of information sharing. Very often on Facebook I'll see something I'll want to check out later, but when I go back, I can't find it at all. VERY frustrating.
-
The disadvantage to Facebook is the posts appear "willy-nilly" based on whatever algorithm the developers decided to throw into production without testing it first (kind of like Zero with their recent software updates, by the way... whatever happened to testing and QA I wonder?). It is also harder to search for particular subjects. Forums like this one are better organized for that kind of information sharing. Very often on Facebook I'll see something I'll want to check out later, but when I go back, I can't find it at all. VERY frustrating.
Great point Jaime, I can agree with this. If I've commented on a post and want to find it again I check my notifications for "Soandso replied to your comment on Zero Motorcycle Owners Group" or I go to the search bar and type in a keyword that I think was used in the post or comments and not used often in other ones. It's not always easy, but for instance you can type in "trade" so see people talking about trade in values at dealers, or "firmware" to see all the posts regarding peoples frustrations with the new firmware. But I agree with this as well. I would like to see all people feel comfortable using both.
I'm about to make a post right now on FB encouraging people to join the EMF here, but I also wanted to alert people here that while the same old "usual suspects" will always remain active here, 90-95% of new owners are only it seems using the facebook group. Increasing trends are important as it can be used as a predictor as to how things will be a year from now. But if you are only on this group, you are not aware of the trend as you don't have all the information. Yet at the same time, you don't think you are missing any important information, as you are simply unaware. My goal is to have everyone in both places, it just seems like activity here has been slowly dying for over a year, and activity on the FB group is growing extremely rapidly. 3000 Zero owners yesterday!!
-
Terry, you obviously feel very strongly about this, and if you were offended by me being flip about it, I'm sorry. I really was just joking, though in general I have no use for "social media". Let's just go have lunch instead....and no cell phones while we're eating!
Seriously, though, what little I do remember about Facebook from my infrequent ventures there, it doesn't really seem set up very well for a forum like this, though Facebook could very well have lots of resources now that I'm completely unaware of. I like the threaded and topical nature of this forum; I can totally ignore the Alta streams if I'm not interested in dirt bikes. I also like that it's single-purpose...if I don't want anybody to know that I needlepoint (not saying), nothing in my profile links me to any other activities if I don't want it to.
Zuckerberg also seems like a whiny little snot, and I don't want to help him take over the world (though there's no point in trying to resist, I don't have to participate).
I'll probably join soon, I'm just being a curmudgeon for a while longer. I'm entitled at my age.
-
What I want to do is to spend less time in front of my computer, not more time. I only use my computer for checking the local weather, for visiting three forums that specialize in the motorcycles that I own and for sending email messages to family members and close friends once in a while. The rest of the time I prefer to be riding, hiking, working in my garden, baking (I am currently baking buttermilk rye bread) and reading real paper books. :)
-
I think some of what Terry is getting at can be summarised quite nicely by this quote:
If you never change your mind, why have one?
Edward de Bono
I prefer using this forum via Tapatalk versus the Facebook group. Some of that is force of habit and familiarity. I have posted on the FB group a number of times, but I do prefer the forum. It just feels easier to me and I think it is a much better format for discussion.
I'm afraid that Facebook has been the death of many forums. People like convenience and that's what Facebook provides.
I hope that you manage to encourage people on the Facebook group to join the forum, Terry. If people get the hang of using the right tool for the right job, then everyone wins. Unfortunately, having two places to visit is too much effort for most people and Facebook has been divisive in this respect.
I think I'll try and keep up with the Facebook group a bit more and direct people to relevant discussions on the forum. It might not make much difference though. I can't remember the last time I used Usenet...
-
Yes, it might have been a few years since using facebook. My wife has it and spends her time browsing it, and I couldn't care less about it. Sorry. If all the sheeple decide to use it for all they can then by all means do so, but I truly dislike the whole facebook concept. Social media my @$$ ;)
As soon as I sign up/in, I get 1-200 friend requests of ppl i couldn't be bothered to keep as friends irl so why be friends online? And just to check if Zero or the community has done something I have to put up with that. Mailbox full of sh*t unless I change settings tucked away somewhere, the EULA telling me I just sold my soul... No thanks.
To each his own. You be happy with your facebook-account. I'll be happy without. And if the community moves to facebook, i'll wave you guys goodbye even ;)
-
Use stuff for what it's designed. Forums to share info and ask questions, facebook for showing off and telling people what you ate. I'm not interested in the latter and have no facebook account and from what I hear around me that gives me a few hours a week extra to go ride the Zero instead of weeding through useless messages.
Agreed! 8)
-
I do miss Usenet. I still use it to track some things (like Mozilla development) but it seems to have pretty much died. I liked the non-centralized structure. It got annoying with all the spammers and trolls but it was usually easy enough to set up filters to eliminate most of that crap.
Too many of these "centralized sites" like Facebook and Google+ store WAAY too much information about you to make me feel comfortable. You can still be completely anonymous on Twitter, but how long will that last with government pressure on all of these companies? And as we've seen in the news, all of that personal information in one place is just irresistible to certain entities out there.
-
Cross posted from my reply to Electric Terry's post on Facebook:
Here's a perfect example of why I prefer the forums! Even though I check FB ZMOG daily and I knew (because you said you would on EMF) that you were going to make this post, I missed it. Today (two days later), I had to scroll down 17 screens to get past 20 posts to find it. On EMF, I can look at one screen and see 20 topics, plus I can click on the handy "new" icon to jump to the next new post in threads that I am actively reading. FB is a fine tool for posting quick questions or showing off pictures, but I think the forums are much better suited for sharing knowledge and more in depth discussions
Also, the forums don't waste space with irrelevant suggestions, like adding my mother-in-law to ZMOG, joining a drone group, or buying a riding lawn mower on the local marketplace.
-
+1
-
+2
-
Another trend that I'm noticing on Facebook is a lot of the newbie questions are being asked again and again. I think the format there is more conducive to people making a quick post looking for an answer rather than searching and reading.
Rather than repeat the information that's already on the forums, I'm going to start linking to the related thread here. Some might view that as being obstinate, but I'm hoping that will help people notice the resources here and maybe even contribute.
-
Another trend that I'm noticing on Facebook is a lot of the newbie questions are being asked again and again. I think the format there is more conducive to people making a quick post looking for an answer rather than searching and reading.
Rather than repeat the information that's already on the forums, I'm going to start linking to the related thread here. Some might view that as being obstinate, but I'm hoping that will help people notice the resources here and maybe even contribute.
Here's one:
*******
So im confused (which isnt hard sometimes)... I know that the power tank on the 2018 add's 3.6 KWH for a total pack of 18KWH, How much does the charge tank add to the system if any? i though i read that it added 6KWH to the total pack for 20.4 on a 14.4 sr bike?
*******
If you look at all the comments, everyone has been really kind and given up their precious time to answer a question that is just lazy and daft. I wasn't quite so charitable... The guy obviously couldn't be bothered to read any information about the accessories at all and thought it was perfectly ok to waste other peoples time instead.
-
The charge tank doesn't add capacity, just faster charging.
-
The charge tank doesn't add capacity, just faster charging.
Aaarrrrgggghhhh!
I'm going to bed. Today has been too much what with all the morons I have to deal with at work as well...
KrazyEd, you're either too kind or just bloody hilarious!. ;-)
-
Another trend that I'm noticing on Facebook is a lot of the newbie questions are being asked again and again. I think the format there is more conducive to people making a quick post looking for an answer rather than searching and reading.
Rather than repeat the information that's already on the forums, I'm going to start linking to the related thread here. Some might view that as being obstinate, but I'm hoping that will help people notice the resources here and maybe even contribute.
I’d appreciate links to the wiki and ideally some help making it easier to find information there. Or at least some priorities to help spend my spare time in a more focused way.
-
I've been participating in numerous online discussion of specialized in-depth subjects, work- and hobby-and social-related, for 30 years, long before the existence of the Web.
Web forums (based on the original Usenet model, before it became commercial) were explicitly designed for this.
Facebook is an extremely bad choice for information sharing on focused subjects, putting aside the fact that many online users boycott it due the crass commercialization and random functional changes. There is no "thread" concept, alerts cannot thus be made thread-specific, or fine-tuned for getting a per-new-post/per-day/per-week alert; searching is nowhere as deterministic; there is no convenient way to "pin" posts so that they are always visible (e.g., FAQs); the UI is designed to always show only an initial small part of a post, so you see lots of posts at the expense of a linear-chronology deeper view. It also shows only a random subset of posts, to force you to interact with the UI. Directly quoting from a senior FB developer some years back, it's intended for "very shallow content to be browsed quickly, not read in-depth, so the viewer stays on page as long as possible. Basically, promote a type of ADHD".
That's not how to best serve the interests of a subject-focused community.
Most Forum software is designed to easily allow various views of the posts, and facilitate full ,multi-criteria binary search ("all posts by user ABC with the words DEF and GHI in the subforum 'aftermarket accessories' in the date range MMM to NNN").
FB doesn't have any Customer Service as such. Whereas the way independent forums are administered varies greatly, depending on the subject and personalities involved, in most cases they are fellow enthusiasts like you, so there's some basis for trying to convince them to change policies or technical matters (size of photos that can be uploaded etc.) You have zero leverage with FB, whose actual policies and reasons for doing anything (like removing a post) aren't transparent, and virtually never explained in detail, and the asymetry between any user or group and FB as a corporate entity is much greater.
There are also potential legal disadvantages:
While FB change their Terms of Service, AFAIK the following still applies: Anything you post publicly may be used or reused by any FB user without permission or royalties -- for example, if you post a design for a neat widget to get feedback, doing so will kill any legal rights you have to get royalties on later use. FB does this because they don't want to be bothered adjudicating between members -- understandable with a couple of billion users.
Most Web forums have a much friendlier attitude & policy. Many also use unpaid-volunteer peer moderators to help discussion stay on-topic, and maintain reasonable standards of behavior; this is very evident in the enormously better signal-to-noise ratio.
The concern about backups is valid, but frankly, although FB may invest a lot more in IT redundancy, security etc., they're also a huge target for malicious actors, whereas any given forum at most gets the occasional spam wave. It's virtually always not at all difficult for whomever administers the forum to get some good, free advice from forum members who are IT people re how to handle backups and so on.
I can't think of a single advantage of using FB for this type of thing... I certainly won't participate in any such discussions on FB.
-
I have been reading monthly motorcycle magazines since I started to subscribe to Cycle World shortly after it was first published in January 1962. In fact, I still have the February 1962 and other early issues in my motorcycle publication history collection. Unfortunately, both Motorcyclist and Cycle World magazines now seem to be following the Facebook model, except their monthly publications have been reduced to quarterly issues. But what really irritates me is that they are moving away from reporting on new motorcycles and their technical features, which is why I was reading them in the first place, to stories about motorcycle riders taking trips here and there, that I know nothing about and have no interest in. So I guess I will be allowing my motorcycle subscriptions to these magazines to expire and will be spending even more time on vehicle-specific forums that interest me, where their technical features are discussed more so than someone's personality and where they went to eat and drink while riding their Harley.
-
I just received my Cycle World issue "1", "2018" and have just looked at the cover so far. I note that my subscription expiration date is no longer on the address sticker like it used to be. Also, the cover price is now $12 each, which is the same as I occasionally pay for the British publication Bike at Barnes and Noble (unfortunately they never order enough copies and it sells out very fast), which is a much better and more interesting magazine. So whenever Cycle World stops coming to my mailbox, I am done with them - after 56 years of mostly enjoyable reading.
-
They just moved to 4 issues per year according to the subscription card I just received. I may also be done.
-
I just received my Cycle World issue "1", "2018" and have just looked at the cover so far. I note that my subscription expiration date is no longer on the address sticker like it used to be. Also, the cover price is now $12 each, which is the same as I occasionally pay for the British publication Bike at Barnes and Noble (unfortunately they never order enough copies and it sells out very fast), which is a much better and more interesting magazine. So whenever Cycle World stops coming to my mailbox, I am done with them - after 56 years of mostly enjoyable reading.
I haven't had any kind of print or digital subscription for a long time, but for quite a few years, I had a subscription to Motorcycle Consumer News (http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/) (MCN) (*). They are 100% subscription supported, no ads at all, and it showed very clearly in their content... Their reviews were much more critical overall than other mags'.
Beyond having about 2x-3x the amount of actual content pages vs. any other magazine once you subtracted the ad pages, the content they did have was much more relevant. For one, a lot more objective details, for example, they pioneered giving full erogonomic measurements on their CycleStats page (example (http://www.motorcycleconsumernews-digitalmagazine.com/mcnews/december_2015d?pg=21#pg21)), a full breakdown of what a standard maintenance interval includes & costs. They had a much more "actual rider, not motojournalist" focus, and it showed. In terms of types of bikes/riding covered, it was varied, but with probably more emphasis on standard road bikes, and a bit less on hardcore sportbikes or offroad. They also had regular columns on several relevant subjects like "mental motorcycling" (written by a riding psychologist) and medical issues related to riding.
To keep costs down, they were black & white instead of color for many years as well, tho' I believe that's changed.
After a while, I stopped all other subscriptions, and even got it airmailed here when I returned to Israel.
I eventually got rid of all paid subscriptions -- no mag could remotely keep up with the Web; I don't know if they're still as good as they used to be, but worth checking out IMHO if you're still interested in a general-interest moto magazine.
(*) Not to be confused with the British magazine "Motorcycle News (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/) (MCN)".
-
I have saved every issue of Motorcycle Consumer News since their first issue dated November 1992 - after spending years as a Road Rider subscriber. I still subscribe to and read the magazine. They offer a free internet subscription to go with the print version I believe, but I can't stand reading anything long on my computer screen and much prefer a paper print version, which is also why I still subscribe to the local newspaper. I might add that the other U.S. print motorcycle magazine that I like and subscribe to is Rider.
Coincidentally, I have also been a longtime subscriber to Popular Science and they just went to a quarterly format, with the same type of heavy paper and similar content as you now see in Cycle World and Motorcyclist magazines. So it is definitely a print publishing trend and one that I do not appreciate. >:(
-
I have saved every issue of Motorcycle Consumer News since their first issue dated November 1992 - after spending years as a Road Rider subscriber. I still subscribe to and read the magazine. They offer a free internet subscription to go with the print version I believe, but I can't stand reading anything long on my computer screen and much prefer a paper print version, which is also why I still subscribe to the local newspaper. I might add that the other U.S. print motorcycle magazine that I like and subscribe to is Rider.
Oops, preachin' to the choir :D I also had a sub to Rider for a few years.
Coincidentally, I have also been a longtime subscriber to Popular Science and they just went to a quarterly format, with the same type of heavy paper and similar content as you now see in Cycle World and Motorcyclist magazines. So it is definitely a print publishing trend and one that I do not appreciate. >:(
Print publishing is mostly dead, and I expect it to be fully dead in 10-15 years.
Potential customers aren't willing to pay for the physical distribution, and the lack of realtime information updates; a quaterly mag is beyond ridiculous on a subject lik motorcycles.
BTW, what's the issue you have with computer screens? there may be a tech solution (apologies if any of this is old hat):
-- If it's the seating position for reading, try a larger-format (10"-12") tablet.
-- If it's the luminous character of the display vs. reflective one of printed matter, try an OLED/AMOLED screen which has better contrast and no backlighting vs. standard IPS LCDs, so is less tiring (Samsung high- and mid-range tablets have AMOLED).
I waited nearly two years for a 8" e-ink reader solution (the 6" Amazon kindles are just too small for novels, IMO), expecting that standard-screen-tech tablets would be far too tiring. Eventually I gave up on an decent e-reader (several now exist), and bought a cheap tablet, and haven't looked back since; I easily read 8-10 hours of novels a day on it with no issues at all. For magazines, a larger screen is preferred.
-- Color e-ink hasn't been adopted yet (a few attempts didn't get traction in the market), but if you're OK with monochrome, there are larger 10-13" e-ink e-readers, which are very easy on the eyes. Since you have a sub to MCN anyway, find a local acquaintance with such a device, and try reading an entire issue on it.