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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: EdgarZero on July 21, 2020, 10:28:12 PM
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Hi friends.
My 2013 Zero S won’t move. When I pull the throttle, it gives the usual “gooossshh” sound but the motor won’t work. It sometimes gives the following error code in the dash board: one light, pause, three lights. This corresponds to “Charger Connected” and “Throttle is ON or throttle/connection is bad. Verify throttle action and/or check connection”. The bike does not produce the “goooooossshhh” sound when I move it backward of forward as it normally did.
On the other hand, the logs have shown different SEVCON CAN EMCY errors codes, such as: 0x46C3 and 0x52C1 which I understand can be errors from the motor encoder or controller. These errors appeared when riding and disabled fully the throttle but now I have the other issue previously described.
As always, any help will be appreciated!
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0x46C3 is a "ride-through fault" which I'm not completely sure of the meaning of (from what I've read could possibly mean the voltage going to the motor is too low), however 0x52C1 is an encoder fault (although I don't know it that means physical or software). That would explain why the motor won't spin and why you don't hear the noise when pushing the bike (that's the controller sending some power to the motor so it can figure out its position using the encoder).
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Motor_Controller/CAN_Diagnostics
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Thanks, TheRan.
I have tried to find more information in order to know if it is hardware or software issue. I found some posts about a "glitch" that ocurred to 2012 and 2013 motorcycles with power to motor cutoffs but I do not know if it is my same problem. The fix in some cases was firmware update to the controller. I will call zero to see If they can help because I don't have a dealer in my country anymore. Thanks again, man.
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0x46C3 is a "ride-through fault" which I'm not completely sure of the meaning of (from what I've read could possibly mean the voltage going to the motor is too low), however 0x52C1 is an encoder fault (although I don't know it that means physical or software). That would explain why the motor won't spin and why you don't hear the noise when pushing the bike (that's the controller sending some power to the motor so it can figure out its position using the encoder).
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Motor_Controller/CAN_Diagnostics
If he's getting ride through and encoder faults, I'd guess it's most likely the motor encoder, and would require a new motor and a trip to the dealer to time and commission the motor/controller combo. Unfortunately, that requires the Zero dealer tools and cableset, or experience with DVT. I've heard of some people ordering a controller motor pair together from a dealer pre comissioned, but that was expensive
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Hi friends.
My 2013 Zero S won’t move. When I pull the throttle, it gives the usual “gooossshh” sound but the motor won’t work. It sometimes gives the following error code in the dash board: one light, pause, three lights. This corresponds to “Charger Connected” and “Throttle is ON or throttle/connection is bad. Verify throttle action and/or check connection”. The bike does not produce the “goooooossshhh” sound when I move it backward of forward as it normally did.
On the other hand, the logs have shown different SEVCON CAN EMCY errors codes, such as: 0x46C3 and 0x52C1 which I understand can be errors from the motor encoder or controller. These errors appeared when riding and disabled fully the throttle but now I have the other issue previously described.
As always, any help will be appreciated!
Why don't you try to check the throttle connection, maybe replacing the throttle. It's suggested by the bike, and less expensive than the replacement of the motor/controller . Just my $0.02 😁.
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The 2013 models have the Magura throttles with a resistor ,so usuali every now and than (15000 km 20000 km ) they start to fail and need to be replaced.
The later models have other throttles ,with a hall sensor.
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The 2013 models have the Magura throttles with a resistor ,so usuali every now and than (15000 km 20000 km ) they start to fail and need to be replaced.
The later models have other throttles ,with a hall sensor.
then it will be easy to measure it, and if it's showing more than 0 ohms, it is bad. The MBB won't activate the bike, if the throttle isn't at zero ohms. It's a 5Kohms variable resistor, that should mesure 0 to 5000 ohms. I replaced two of them on my 2010 Zero S in only 4000 miles.
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0x46C3 is a "ride-through fault" which I'm not completely sure of the meaning of (from what I've read could possibly mean the voltage going to the motor is too low), however 0x52C1 is an encoder fault (although I don't know it that means physical or software). That would explain why the motor won't spin and why you don't hear the noise when pushing the bike (that's the controller sending some power to the motor so it can figure out its position using the encoder).
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Motor_Controller/CAN_Diagnostics
If he's getting ride through and encoder faults, I'd guess it's most likely the motor encoder, and would require a new motor and a trip to the dealer to time and commission the motor/controller combo. Unfortunately, that requires the Zero dealer tools and cableset, or experience with DVT. I've heard of some people ordering a controller motor pair together from a dealer pre comissioned, but that was expensive
Thanks Auriga. I’m really hoping that’s not the case, it would be very complicated and even more since I don’t have a dealer in my country right now. It also seems that Sevcon doesn’t make my kind of controller anymore.
I emailed Zero and called them, I’m waiting for their answer.
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The 2013 models have the Magura throttles with a resistor ,so usuali every now and than (15000 km 20000 km ) they start to fail and need to be replaced.
The later models have other throttles ,with a hall sensor.
then it will be easy to measure it, and if it's showing more than 0 ohms, it is bad. The MBB won't activate the bike, if the throttle isn't at zero ohms. It's a 5Kohms variable resistor, that should mesure 0 to 5000 ohms. I replaced two of them on my 2010 Zero S in only 4000 miles.
Thanks Gains and TEV.
I measured the Ohms in the throttle. It’s 5.3 KOhms between pins 1 and 3 and also between pins 2 and 3. Between pins 1 and 2 there’s only 0.02 KOhms. That’s something near 0 and 5 but do you know if that’s ok???
Also, is there a chance to connect a resistor or something instead of the throttle and test if it works before replacing it???
Thanks again, guys
Update: I checked again and seems fine since the Omhs decrease when I pull the throttle from 5.3 K to almost zero and increase between the pins where the Ohms were low. So it seems the source of the problem is another one.
Still waiting for Zero email.
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The 2013 models have the Magura throttles with a resistor ,so usuali every now and than (15000 km 20000 km ) they start to fail and need to be replaced.
The later models have other throttles ,with a hall sensor.
then it will be easy to measure it, and if it's showing more than 0 ohms, it is bad. The MBB won't activate the bike, if the throttle isn't at zero ohms. It's a 5Kohms variable resistor, that should mesure 0 to 5000 ohms. I replaced two of them on my 2010 Zero S in only 4000 miles.
Thanks Gains and TEV.
I measured the Ohms in the throttle. It’s 5.3 KOhms between pins 1 and 3 and also between pins 2 and 3. Between pins 1 and 2 there’s only 0.02 KOhms. That’s something near 0 and 5 but do you know if that’s ok???
Also, is there a chance to connect a resistor or something instead of the throttle and test if it works before replacing it???
Thanks again, guys
With the multimeter connected to the pins showing 0.02KOhms, twist the throttle, and the value should change, going up to 5KOhms. 0.02KOhms = 20 ohms, I don't know at what value the MBB doesn't consider it a 0 Ohms anymore, so for testing purposes , you can make it 0 Ohms by jumping the pins with a wire, and see if the motorcycle will go in "drive" mode.
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TEV, Ohms effectively change when twisting the throttle. It’s interesting what you say about 0.02 Ohms not being considered as zero by the controller or MBB or so. I will jump the pins and let you know. Thanks, man.
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I will jump the pins and let you know.
That will be the only way to rule out the throttle. Good luck.
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I jumped the pins with the bike on and the throttle stopped working (the usual sound when pulling the throttle stopped).
What called my attention is that I measured the Ohms with the bike on (keyed on) and had totally different numbers. I did this measures in the cables after the throttle plug. Between pins 1 and 2 is still 0.02 KOmhs but between pins 1 and 3 I had different KOmhs from -14 to 7, with important differences from one reading to the next. In fact, changing the multimeter to volts, it was 10.7 volts between pins 1 and 3 with the throttle connected and 12 volts disconnect.
I think this is not ok but maybe this is the right functionality when the bike is on, honestly I don’t know. I suppose the KOhms should be the same trough the cables and so all the way to the controller. Again, I’m asking for your help.
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I jumped the pins with the bike on and the throttle stopped working (the usual sound when pulling the throttle stopped).
What called my attention is that I measured the Ohms with the bike on (keyed on) and had totally different numbers. I did this measures in the cables after the throttle plug. Between pins 1 and 2 is still 0.02 KOmhs but between pins 1 and 3 I had different KOmhs from -14 to 7, with important differences from one reading to the next. In fact, changing the multimeter to volts, it was 10.7 volts between pins 1 and 3 with the throttle connected and 12 volts disconnect.
I think this is not ok but maybe this is the right functionality when the bike is on, honestly I don’t know. I suppose the KOhms should be the same trough the cables and so all the way to the controller. Again, I’m asking for your help.
Unfortunately, your throttle is good, that was the most easy to fix. I don't think that you can do more troubleshooting without specialized cable and software for the controller.
One thing that you can try is to locate the light on the motor controller, and see if it's signaling an error.
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SOLVED!!
Fortunately, it seems it was a problem with the encoder plug in the motor, it had some corrosion and I think it was pulled by the motor temperature plug because it was on top of the encoder`s cables. I cleaned the corrosion, applied some dielectric grease (which I think never hurts), tightened the encoder plug connector and put the motor temperature plug apart . Today I could ride again, I hope I can do it much longer. I also felt the acceleration was better and smother but I don’t know if it is my imagination or my excitement for riding again.
I feel dumb because one of the CAN error logs said something like “check the encoder wiring to the motor” (it was error 0x52C1). In my defense hehe, there were other several error logs and I thought that the check process would be much more difficult to do. I also thought the wiring was really inside the motor, until I searched for more information in this forum.
Thanks to you all for your help, I learned a lot in the process. Long live to this forum, to electric motorcycles and we, the enthusiasts!
- Edgar
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I have found that die electric grease always make things work better.
Speedometers, egt sensors, throttle position sensors, cruise controls. What ever plugs you can find put some on it.
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Congratulations!