ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: JaimeC on April 08, 2016, 07:06:50 PM
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Just curious if anyone has done any observations on the "range hit" between running in Sport mode vs running in Eco mode?
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Whether or not there is a range difference between Sport and Eco mode all depends on your ability to control your right wrist. Not easy to do when you have a SR. But Eco mode also completely takes away your ability to accelerate away from a dangerous situation which is why I will never use it.
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I have used both sport and eco modes on my 2014 S and haven't noticed any difference in range, provided you ride exactly the same way in both modes. Unless you need to control rear wheel traction, I would recommend keeping your bike in sport. However eco might be a good choice when the streets are slippery or wet.
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I have a 2013 FX, so only have sport and eco. My eco would be the same as the newer custom mode I guess.
I know that regen in sport is pretty light. If it is more aggressive in eco, it MIGHT help a little. Can't tell with
the Zero how much is regenerated, but, on my Focus Electric I average around 20% regeneration.
I run in eco most of the time because of the ability for greater regeneration. The bike seems to rice smoother
in eco, almost a surging when trying to keep consistent speed when in sport.
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Whether or not there is a range difference between Sport and Eco mode all depends on your ability to control your right wrist.
Amen. Ride like you do in Eco mode and Sport mode will yield the exact same power usage. And let's re-iterate that acceleration rate has virtually no effect on range; it's almost exclusively dependent on top (cruising) speed. If you're accelerating from, say, 20 mph up to 70 mph on an on-ramp, it makes very little difference if you accelerate slowly or twice as hard for half as long. But if you bump your cruising speed even from 70 to 75 mph, you'll have a big impact on range.
I also used to make the argument that Sport mode feels safer since you can accelerate harder if you need to. I've reached the point now where I can admit to myself that whether or not it's safer, I just don't like having a hot rod underneath me with a leash on. In Sport mode I get to choose from one instant to the next if I want to ride for range or ride for performance.
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Thank you. That is what I was HOPING to hear. :D
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I only use Eco for low speed maneuvering (parking lots, driveways and tight spots where a softer throttle response is helpful) or in the wet. Even if Eco did give me more range I would never use it anyway on the road. It's an SR, I bought it for the acceleration. I will not declaw my beast. Even after 1 1/2 years of ownership the torque blast still gives me a rush.
Besides, as has been mentioned above, it's extended high speed that kills the range, not hard acceleration. If I stay off the freeway I can get quite close to Zero's range figures and that's with plenty of hot-rodding - as it should be.
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I find Eco helpful when I know range is tight. I know throttle control will achieve the same effect, but I just find it easier. That said, I also think it's a bit daft to hobble the performance. As others have said, you never know when you will need it. In fact when range isn't a problem, which is most of the time, I don't bother with Eco in the wet. I just consciously take it easy. However, I was going up a slip road in the wet the other day at about 50mph under quite hard acceleration and I realised that my back wheel was spinning up. That's on a DS! I eased off and all was fine. Maybe I need Eco mode to save me from myself! I accidentally push my luck in the wet even though I do try to take it easier most of the time. It's mad really because I know how little traction there is and how quickly our bikes can lose grip. I broke my wrist last summer test riding an SR in the wet.
I need to learn more discipline and not rely too much on electronic assistance. However, I'm a great fan of traction control. It's great for people like me that just won't learn and can't be bothered to switch modes. It's part of being human I guess.
I just use custom mode with everything maxed all the time. I never touch sport.
The most effective method of getting the best range I've found is to use the shortest route option on my TomTom sat nav app. It takes you right through the middle of towns and all the tiny country roads to get the most direct route. Not only do you cover the minimum distance but the nature of the route keeps your speed down. It takes longer but it also makes for a very interesting ride. It's taken me through parts of London I've never seen before. I've also come across a regular bikers gathering that I didn't know about. Lots of beautiful and quiet country roads. That's from a guy who's last bike was a VFR 1200FD that used to tear up the tarmac!
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I find the bike so underpowered after riding around more powerful bikes for years that I forget it even has modes.. I just leave it in the "sport" one, and modulate the power with throttle like every other bike. In the parkinglot I wish it had a clutch because it would let you do tight maneuvering that it is incapable of at the moment.
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I find the bike so underpowered after riding around more powerful bikes for years that I forget it even has modes.. I just leave it in the "sport" one, and modulate the power with throttle like every other bike. In the parkinglot I wish it had a clutch because it would let you do tight maneuvering that it is incapable of at the moment.
There would be more benefit to get a left rear brake lever and load the motor against the rear brake, then launch it...
Ive had many conversations about clutches on a bike like ours, as the next project up is my Electricross fx 1 brick version I want a clutch to bunny hop it. Im going to rear brake on that bike instead of a clutch because
1.no clutch is going to hold up to an electric motor, yes a two stroke 250,500 might have more power but the level of torque at very low rpms on an electric motor will destroy a clutch. I mean you really need a clutch of around sport bike caliber, for my application thats just not what i want (aiming for as ligt as possiable) so im not ruling it out, there is step two though...
2. (Disclaimer: Just the way i would do it assuming you could get over step 1.) there is not a good way to control the motor over reving when the clutch is engaged, it would require an emmense amout of programming. You would have to limit the rpms to 1000-1500ish (start at 500 and work your way up on a dyno) soon as you engage your clutch (using a different throttle map every time you bring in the clutch lever transitioning from one to the other) so even if you floored it, you would, and never could overspeed, if you could rev the motor no load to 6000rpms its going to go to 8k plus easily and man you better hope you have a good motor Not to mention there would be no "feathering", and then technically You are making a a projectile, with 2 wheels
I wanted something that would just spin tires (starting slides) as my fondest memories "motorcrossing" more stunt riding with my feet over the handlebars on a little pit bike, drifting alphabet letters
3. im sure theres one or 2 more im forgetting about
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I find the bike so underpowered after riding around more powerful bikes for years that I forget it even has modes.. I just leave it in the "sport" one, and modulate the power with throttle like every other bike. In the parkinglot I wish it had a clutch because it would let you do tight maneuvering that it is incapable of at the moment.
The lower modes improve safety, by reducing the response per angle of inflection. This helps in tight traffic situations and also when traction is limited by oily, wet road surfaces. I have fish tailed the bike in Eco mode, and appreciated that it helped with a soft roll off to recover gracefully instead of putting me at the mercy of incoming traffic.
I don't know what you're talking about regarding low speed maneuvering, because the uninterrupted torque response and weight distribution is a huge improvement compared to feathering a clutch in second gear to get the same effect. Maybe you're complaining about wheelbase, but I get on amazingly well lanesplitting and maneuvering in hostile traffic and on tricky corners.
You decide your comfort level for yourself alone. Maybe you're highly trained and unsympathetic to less intense riders, but to me, you sound like you're just power-obsessed. I'm trying to ride safe and have fun in that order and think it's fine.
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I find the bike so underpowered after riding around more powerful bikes for years that I forget it even has modes.. I just leave it in the "sport" one, and modulate the power with throttle like every other bike. In the parkinglot I wish it had a clutch because it would let you do tight maneuvering that it is incapable of at the moment.
Which Zero are you riding that you find "so underpowered"? I'm surprised that you find the Zero incapable of tight maneuvering. In Eco mode I find it incredibly easy to maneuver at low speeds - easier than any other bike I have ridden.
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Having put 24,000 miles on a scooter with a CVT, I've gotten used to slow, tight maneuvering without the benefit of a manual clutch. I imagine the Zero would be even easier than the scooter because below a certain speed, the clutch on the scooter disengages completely. What I do is keep pressure on the rear brake and power on the throttle to keep the clutch from disengaging but still allowing me to move at very low speeds.
Since the Zero doesn't even have a clutch that would disengage, I'm thinking using the rear brake and throttle will be even easier. But I'm also thinking this technique would work better in Sport mode because when you do twist the throttle you're going to want the bike to respond RIGHT NOW. If it doesn't, you run the risk of a tip-over. Guess I'll find out for sure when mine finally arrives.
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I find the bike so underpowered after riding around more powerful bikes for years that I forget it even has modes.. I just leave it in the "sport" one, and modulate the power with throttle like every other bike. In the parkinglot I wish it had a clutch because it would let you do tight maneuvering that it is incapable of at the moment.
Which Zero are you riding that you find "so underpowered"? I'm surprised that you find the Zero incapable of tight maneuvering. In Eco mode I find it incredibly easy to maneuver at low speeds - easier than any other bike I have ridden.
The SR. I really like the FXS, except its more "supermoto look" than an actual supermoto.
Dont get me wrong they're all fun bikes, and I love them.. but I find them less than powerful, as my perspective comes from commuting/touring/tracking bikes with 150+hp and more than enough torque.
The S models are easy to turn normally.. yes. But if you do anything like motorcycle gymkhana in a parking lot, its impossible. On a sportbike (not the best bike for low speed handling) I can lay it down until the frameslider touches, and then pick the bike up with the clutch and throttle. You dont get that same action with just the throttle.
U turn in a parkinglot? sure the zero can do it.
U turn in a parking space? no... but a ICE bike can.
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Just curious if anyone has done any observations on the "range hit" between running in Sport mode vs running in Eco mode?
I use custom mode with speed, torque and regen under braking set to the max with regen on throttle off set to light engine breaking. Never use any other mode, just my brain to do eco riding or perform traction control. I would hate it if Zero put traction control on the SR.
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I would love if they put good selectable traction control and ABS system. Make traction control an option for those who want it, so those who do not want it don't have to pay for it. From what I read, today's traction control and ABS can be done right and I see no real downside, as long as it has a several modes and can be turned off for the rare cases it is undesirable (which I don't really see when would that be, if it is a good system - OK, perhaps to one case would be goof around in dirt or to smoke tires).
I would hate it if Zero put traction control on the SR.
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I would love if they put good selectable traction control and ABS system. Make traction control an option for those who want it, so those who do not want it don't have to pay for it. From what I read, today's traction control and ABS can be done right and I see no real downside, as long as it has a several modes and can be turned off for the rare cases it is undesirable (which I don't really see when would that be, if it is a good system - OK, perhaps to one case would be goof around in dirt or to smoke tires).
I would hate it if Zero put traction control on the SR.
Another random goofing off note where it doesnt work:
On the BMW S1000RR, if you dont turn off the traction control, when the front wheel leaves the ground, it cuts the power out.. so instead of a smooth wheelie, it becomes a lift-drop-lift-drop cycle if you roll the throttle back. Fun for a goof, but its probably horrible for the fork seals and steering head bearings. lol (this is also why you NEVER want the demo model.)
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In regards to maneuverability:
https://youtu.be/8s03I3BcaNk
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
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U turn in a parkinglot? sure the zero can do it.
U turn in a parking space? no... but a ICE bike can.
Just a different technique, a very tight U turn is done at the 35 second mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WinD8e69nso (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WinD8e69nso)
:)
On my Empulse, by dragging the rear break allowing me to keep the throttle "tension", I can lay it down as far as I can with an ICE. Maybe if I could get it down to slider level (and back up :D) I would feel more of a need for the subtleties and punch of a an ICE with a smooth clutch.
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I heard a rumor that even in sport mode, the throttle response is programmed to be softer launch to save riders from dumping their bike.
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Doesn't surprise me. Considering how much torque that motor puts out from 0 rpm, if it DIDN'T have some kind of electronic control I suspect a lot of people would be flipping their bikes over backwards when attempting a hard launch. It's not like we have a clutch to keep things under control...