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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: shayan on November 21, 2019, 01:45:37 PM
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Have any of you tried any of the LSR fairings from Airtech? The front fender in particular looks like it could be a good fit for the Zero.
-Shayan
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You may want to post a link.
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I’ve got a DBL1 and a DBL2 on hand. I’ve applied my DBL2 to a 2016 DSR, and Togo applied another DBL1 to his 2014 SR.
Ref. https://www.airtech-streamlining.com/vintage-fairings-seats-fenders-parts/vintagefairingsdustbin.htm (https://www.airtech-streamlining.com/vintage-fairings-seats-fenders-parts/vintagefairingsdustbin.htm)
But those are vintage dustbins, not the LSR dustbins. Most of the LSR fairies are actually quite narrow, from measurements and also I visited their factory where we tried a few mockups.
Most LSR bikes are not street dimensions. You need their biggest fairings typically for a Zero.
One exception is the set meant for the Hayabusa. Those might take more bracketing to apply, though.
I will say that my DBL2 setup netted me often a 25% gain but usually 20%. The DBL1 should perform better but we never got past teething issues with the mount and cutout strategy.
My DSR is also destroyed so that project has been set back. But I have the fairings and some mount designs. I may redo the work for the SRF or something.
I’ll find some photos later.
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Thanks for the insight Brian!
For my basic levels of skills in installing stuff for a motorcycle, the dustbin fairings would be fairly complicated to install. Which is why i was looking more at the Hayabusa LSR fairing parts. Since i could not find a good set of wheel covers that i could buy online, i was thinking of trying out one of those fenders which covers the front portion of the front wheel. It might be a small gain in efficiency but could be worth a try.
@NEW2elec
Here you go: https://www.airtech-streamlining.com/land-speed-fairings-seats-fenders-parts/landspeed.htm
-Shayan
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Thanks for the link. Now that I have time to review, for the wheel covers, you'll basically want to aggressively check all the measurements they post against your bike.
You'll need to make custom brackets that bolt to the Zero fork flanges and provide the right offset for the wheel cover to mount to; I'm willing to bet that all of these are a little wide compared to the Zero front wheel (although maybe with the disc and caliper, that's not true).
I don't know which shape to recommend, though. I spent time on wheel disc covers just to prevent the wind striking the spokes. I'm looking forward to the SR/F wheel construction in making that better.
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Cool. Here's the fender that seemingly might fit bikes other than the hayabusa (using custom brackets):
GSX13LSR4
Hayabusa LSR front fender "A"
NEW! This is a highly modified Hayabusa fender. There's a return lip along the bottom edge that comes back to the tire (requires trimming for clearance). Our most slippery Hayabusa fender to date!
Bolts on to Hayabusa forks but will fit many other front ends with some custom brackets.
Width inside forks : 5.5"
Width outside forks: 10"
Width at dimpled mounting points: 8" (bottom) 10.25"(top)
Width at inside mounting tabs: 6"
Overall heigth: 12.5"
Length along fender: 36"
Length accross: 25.25"
I can try to send them an email enquiry with the details of the Zero and check if they can make custom brackets.
-Shayan
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Airtech will not make you custom brackets; they’re just not in that business. But there are plenty of services that can machine you something you design. I’ve gotten experienced with the design and manufacturing cycle of simple prototypes in that regard, particularly for fairing mounts.
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Nice! I can only mount something if the hardware is given to me but have 0 experience in design or such. Any that are particularly good in CA bay area?
There was once this design called a Ryno fender, which also had some wind tunnel testing results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waXdmK3s9y4&t=1s
Wonder what happened to that "company". Seems like it could get some efficiency gains and could help keep the cold wind off of the front of the battery in winter months.
-Shayan
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You can still get a Ryno fender : I will post more when I get to my computer. (I have one.)
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
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You can still get a Ryno fender : I will post more when I get to my computer. (I have one.)
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
I mean I have a fender! (as well as a computer, lol).
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
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Haha sure thanks in advance. But i'm really surprised to know that someone really has one of these. I was thinking of getting one before but it seems like the company stopped accepting orders. Do you know if they still sell these?
-Shayan
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https://ionemoto.com/
These guys bought Catalyst and several other companies and they still had the mold in early 2018. I was just interested in the Ryno "lip" but ended up buying the whole fender. My original plan was to fit this to my drag bike but I haven't gotten around to it yet. There is contact info on the web site. If you're interested and they say they're not (?) let me know and maybe we can work something out for the one I have.
Rather than a LSR front fairing, maybe consider an OEM fiberglas replacement? In any case, making the brackets is always the challenge. The first generation Hayabusa has some of the best aerodynamics in the business and is the basis for almost all the record holding LSR bikes. And supposedly the LSR fender is good for 2-3 mph (I run one but haven't done A-B-A testing although another guy did). It makes sense though: the air is moving fastest at the top of the tire and this area is totally shielded by that style fender.
I always liked the concept of dustbins for lower speeds although I suspect they might be a handful at higher speeds or in crosswind situations. A Bonneville racer has one fitted (with complete tail) to his old Triumph Trident which makes about 100 hp and he's gone over 200 mph with it. Typically it takes almost twice the power to make those kind of speeds with a conventional fairing.
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Even the clumsy DBL2 with vertical sidewalls handled fine on the Zero DSR at 85mph in a crosswind. (The only reason I tested the DBL2 vs DBL1 was to make clearing the 19" front wheel easier when fabricating the mount and wheel cutout.)
Modern bikes are so much larger than those dustbins that it's not the issue it was on 125cc bikes with poorer tire compounds in the 50s.
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That's interesting information and encouraging. 85 mph is certainly fast enough for the street although the Cg/Cp relationship becomes increasingly important as you go faster.
How was the amount of steering lock with those fairings?
Some of the full-body LSR fairings get into squirrely handling at uber-high speeds in crosswinds and there have been accidents. I built a tail for the E-Busa which not only picked up 5 mph (compared to stock gen 1 fairing with LSR fender) but felt more stable in a 10 mph crosswind and maintained an additional 13 mph in a 15-second coastdown. I'm planning to make it street legal and test for energy consumption/range improvements.
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The bike's steering was stable. I commuted every day along highway 280 from San Francisco to Mountain View with this fairing (~40 miles each way).
I also took a trip to Seattle and back. Highway-speed travel is far easier than LSR runs.
I will say that as often as I could, I put a tail fairing or at least a case on the back, and my rear wheel had a cover the whole time. The rear wheel cover when I installed it very palpably moved the Cp to the rear, and was very pleasing in a crosswind, smoothing out the bike's handling and making it gently lean into a crosswind.
I don't think the dustbin actually moved the Cp forward much more than the Cg, because the fairing weighed almost 10lbs and the mount another 15lbs.
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Thanks for the info Brian. I'm assuming you felt you had sufficient steering lock?
Are you riding again?
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I don't know what you mean by "steering lock", and I'll infer that you're talking about steering stability and getting the steering to a dangerous wobble that hits the stops.
The steering would not wobble easier than stock, and did not display any unstable or anti-stable tendencies. I could let go of the (DSR) steering at speed and not get a wobble unless the pavement perturbed it, and then it was very calm to correct. I don't know about an SR's tendencies.
I was honestly more concerned that the fairing mount fatigue would add up and drift the dustbin downwards or allow wobble that the wheel might scrape on. This did not happen, thankfully, and I logged about 20-25k miles on it before switching to the Hollywood Electrics fairing.
I will also say that the square-ish profile of the DBL2, unique among these fairings, reduced my lean angle noticeably to the point where I had vinyl strips on the corners to absorb road scrapes. For what it's worth, the DBL2 is the "show bike" dustbin, and is featured on most retro mods involving dustbin fairings. It's an impractical fairing.
Finally, I am not riding yet, except those urban rental sit-down scooters in full gear a few times. I'm getting my stomach tube removed on Monday which leaves my face and dental surgery to restore upper teeth as the limiting factor over the next couple months.
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More great info - thanks. By steering lock I mean lock-to-lock i.e. was the front tire hitting the inside of the fairing at full lock? It seems not...
Good luck with the rest of your recovery.
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Right. I cleared that up during fabrication. The wheel cutout has to be made by the customer - Airtech can't predict that. The DBL2 (unlike DBL1 which has no holes as-delivered) does come with a pre-made wheel slot for straight-ahead fitment, but you'll swing the steering back and forth and then cut to get the right total clearance.
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Thank you Frank! I'll try to contact them and check if they still make those. I'll need to get some details on the kind of dimensions they have with their fender to know the brackets i'll need for a Zero.
You mentioned you have not yet tried the fender that you bought?
It would be interesting to know some real world results.
-Shayan
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I haven't had a chance to mount the fender yet. Maybe this year, lol, but I've had a couple of other e-race vehicles I've been working on. The drag bike is naked and I was hoping to fit a small Airtech fairing I bought about 5 years ago + the Ryno. The problem with fitting a fairing is that it forces me to sit up more which means changing the controls around which I've been reluctant to do. It's pretty stable with me laying on the "tank". If I fit the fairing I'll also fit a wheelie bar as I can only run around 70% controller output at this point. I need better aero (and the bar!) to do much more.
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Found another interesting busa fender here: http://www.1st-to-the-finish-line.com/products/Descriptions/TFF-1.html
Any ideas where i can find measurements of the 1st gen hayabusa to see if this can work for a Zero?
-Shayan
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I think that's the fender I use on my street/LSR bike. (It's quite possibly made by Airtech, not sure.) The fender is about 8-3/4" between the closest mounts i.e. it's pretty wide. I had started making a foam "buck" for my drag bike but got sidetracked and never finished it. Could a standard Zero fender be used to throw a mold which could then be modified?
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I think that's the fender I use on my street/LSR bike. (It's quite possibly made by Airtech, not sure.) The fender is about 8-3/4" between the closest mounts i.e. it's pretty wide. I had started making a foam "buck" for my drag bike but got sidetracked and never finished it. Could a standard Zero fender be used to throw a mold which could then be modified?
Not sure if its been tried before. But i'll be all in if this could be achieved.