ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: NervEasy on January 22, 2020, 02:51:07 AM
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Hi all,
The zero manual seems to have conflicting info for the blinker relay for MY2018 and up.
Here:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Turn_Signal_Flasher (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Turn_Signal_Flasher)
it states:
"Look at the pins with the middle L (load) pin on top.
2018+: The orientation should be E- (left), L (center), then B+ (right)
Most off the shelf relays are oriented with E-, L, then B+, and should connect without modifications."
This seems to me as a description for a CF14 type relay.
But a few lines later it states:
"The common CF13 relay orientation is appropriate for MY 2018+"
So maybe this needs fixing? I want to acquire a relay but I want to buy the correct one without first having to open the bike up to check which one it actually is?
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Maybe left and right aren't labeled the way you're thinking of.
The article (I wrote) cites EMF threads with people investigating their bikes, and you can take issue with whatever the conclusion is or find where something was switched up or confused, but I don't see the issue.
FWIW I had a 2013 DS and 2016 DSR, so didn't get my hands on a post-2017 model to check this detail myself. But I did replace my relay and IIRC I swapped my leads to match CF13 because that's what I could find in my local auto parts store.
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I understand, and I do not want to step on anyones toes.
The first part states to look at the pins (so looking at the bottom of the relay) with the L pin on top, then E(-) should be left and B(+) should be right.
When i check this on google images relays with this configuration they are CF14.
So I’m just confused and want to be sure which one to get. I will probably dig into my bike to be sure but that kind of defeats the purpose of the zeromanual?
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I understand, and I do not want to step on anyones toes.
The first part states to look at the pins (so looking at the bottom of the relay) with the L pin on top, then E(-) should be left and B(+) should be right.
When i check this on google images relays with this configuration they are CF14.
So I’m just confused and want to be sure which one to get. I will probably dig into my bike to be sure but that kind of defeats the purpose of the zeromanual?
Not at all! The zeromanual is made of this type of effort. How else could we possibly amass knowledge with a tight-lipped OEM?
Anyway, take a photo or notes of your plug and order what you think is right, test it and let us know your findings.
I'm definitely willing to change it once I discover a transcription or other error. It would just help a lot for someone to get physical confirmation.
And furthermore, I'd do it myself, but my DSR was totaled several months ago so I'm trying to be more careful than average about what I write.
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So I just bought both versions...
(https://i.imgur.com/qDf6f31.jpg)
So, I still think when looking at the labels of these units the manual is wrong?
Anyway, can anyone tell me if I need to remove the tank or seat to find the original relay on a 2019 S? I have a charge tank so I hope it is still easily accessible.
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On 2014 DS CF14 was the correct relay. CF13 worked too, but E / B contacts had to be swapped. To access plastic cowlings had to be removed.
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To replace the flasher, you'll need to remove the seat and then the tank. It's under the neck of the frame in the front of the tank area. If you have a Charge Tank or Power Tank, you'll either have to remove those to access it, or try reaching it from underneath in front of the frame (with the tank removed).
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Turn_Signal_Flasher (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Turn_Signal_Flasher) shows a photo of where it is once uncovered.
The 12V accessory socket install covers how to get at that area, and I might adapt it for this:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/SDS_Platform/12V_Accessory_Socket_Kit_Install (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/SDS_Platform/12V_Accessory_Socket_Kit_Install)
I see how the C13/C14 confusion seems to have happened. I'll update it once you confirm which relay operates correctly with your bike, thanks.
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In mine, the signal relay was in a little box taped to the wiring harness and kinda hard to get at.
-Crissa
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Well, here's a procedure. It's a little rough; I'll figure out whether we have some reasonably good photos to include:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/SDS_Platform/Turn_Signal_Flasher_Replacement
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Thank you Brian!!
Lifting my charge tank will be stressy :) I'll post something when I finally get around doing it.
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Ah. I guess I’ll try to verify the plug detail sooner, then, since I’m trying to acquire a new bike this week. Good luck.
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ooh :) Succes with your new bike!
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Okay, so the pin orientation descriptions were flipped, and I've fixed that, although thankfully I can physically confirm that CF14 works for 2013-2017 and CF13 works for 2018+ models.
I also updated the article to list the relay model I found on my 2020 which makes no noise. It may not be LED ready, but we'll try to find that out, I'm sure.
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Normally if all goes well I will tackle the change of relays this weekend. My 2019 original relay is also very silent. It still makes noise but very little. The new one will be much more nosier.
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Soooo, that's done. But man... I do not recommend doing this if you have a Chargetank installed.
So first interesting fact, the CF13 relais does not work, the CF14 does however. So that is weird as I expected the CF13 to work since my bike is from juli 2019. So something to note in the unofficial manual?
Glad I got both the CF13 and the CF14 so I could switch until one worked.
You have to unbolt the Chargetank and balance it out of the way on the frame so you have enough room for your had to wriggle in the tight spot under the wishbone. I just disconnected the connector and left the old relais in place. Put some dielectric grease on the pins of the old one so they don't corrode and it will still work when I want to switch back. There is enough room for the new relais to tuck away and zip-tie it secure. Also used enough grease on the contacts. On of the contacts of the plug was sliding back in its slot however. Not a super quality plug... and a pain to fix in the tight spot.
Also the new Chargetank looks completely different than the old one. Not that big, small fans on the back (never heard them when charging though). It is heavy and secured with a bracket and 2 long rods that hook in the frame on the side.
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I'm still confused, unfortunately. I have the stock relay for my 2016 DSR (since I replaced it for an LED-compatible relay) on my desk here, and it's definitely got a pin orientation that matches CF14 relays.
Removing the Power Tank sounds easier than getting the Charge Tank out of the way, since the Power Tank just has the retaining bracket and power harness coupling to disconnect. I picked up the PT and gently set it on a tall stool on my new DSR.
Can you confirm (photos of the nameplate side and the pins would be ideal, if they don't match what I listed in the manual article) what the stock relay you replaced was?
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I didn’t take any pictures of the old relay as I kept it in place and acces was really limited. I do remember it had a number on it ending with “2018” my bike however is definitly a 2019 11kw S.
And yeah I had a cf13 and cf14 relay and now I only have the cf13 left so I’m sure only the cf14 worked and is the one I installed in the bike. With the cf13 mounted it just didn’t work.
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Okay, I've updated the article with a note about this report. I cannot reliably revise it without some evidence like a photo, though, and would really appreciate if a 2019 owner can find something concrete to report.
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Okay, I've updated the article with a note about this report. I cannot reliably revise it without some evidence like a photo, though, and would really appreciate if a 2019 owner can find something concrete to report.
I have a 2020 DS and can confirm the OEM relay is - L +, the same pin-out as the C14. I tried the C13, as stated in this thread, but it did not work! I'll have to exchange my relay. **Acutally, I decided to just swap the wires and keep the relay I bought since it has a knob to adjust the flash speed.**
As a note, with the OEM relay still installed the new LED bulbs flash once when activated then not again until you wait a few seconds then activate again, at which time they again flash just once. I assume this is a voltage issue and the relay has enough charge or releases enough for one flash but not for continuous flashes. I've never experienced this situation before since prior bikes that I install LED bulbs in the turn signals just flashed quickly until I installed a new relay!
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Thanks for posting the details Jeroen. You sure live up to your nickname :D.
Did you take any pictures from the charge tank? It would make sense they share this component with other models so maybe it's the same as the one on my SRF. Somewhat visible in these video's
https://youtu.be/N-dVmTTvg0s
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I have some pictures of my charge tank. I will try to post them tonight. It is indeed the exact same unit as used on the sr/f and sr/s.
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See some pictures below:
(https://i.imgur.com/YUKHLQI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tr6GuCZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4GBppMD.jpg)
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Just chiming in with a 2019 FXS — I just removed my flasher relay and can confirm another in-the-wild 2018+ bike with an E- on the left, L on the top, and B+ on the right.
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Can you confirm (photos of the nameplate side and the pins would be ideal, if they don't match what I listed in the manual article) what the stock relay you replaced was?
Here are photos of the stock flasher relay in my 2019 FXS (which shows the -, L, + ordering).
An aside: because I ended up buying a relay from AutoZone with the other pin layout, I swapped the pins on my bike’s connector to use the AutoZone relay.
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thanks for the pics of the charge tank ! but I'm suprised that you don't hear the fan, mine is loud af after a few minutes of charging.