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[bluefoxicy]

Soon-to-be new rider, looking at Zero Motorcycles.  I'll either get an S ZF13 (because I'm not comfortable with the short range of the lowest model) or an SR (because I don't like yellow, the SR doesn't cost that much more, and red is a nicer color).  I'm not exactly rich as all hell, but buying a $16k motorcycle as a starter isn't a big deal; originally (4 or 5 years ago) I was looking at $4,000 Kawasaki, but an electric motorcycle changes my regard toward the value proposition.

I used to bicycle to work about 400 miles per month.  I never have passengers and hardly ever carry anything; driving a car is overkill.  I've considered eliminating the car (the Zero Motorcycle should make that an $1,800/year savings, assuming 2 new tires every 3,000 miles).

So of course that means I need information.  Guess I should read these forums, find out something about tires, and get an idea about protective gear.  What I've seen so far suggests all experienced riders crash their bikes frequently enough to assume they're going to do it again, and thus emphasize safety gear as much as safe riding.

Still have to figure out the thing about tires.  Those Diablo Rosso II tires (stock on Zero S) supposedly work at low temperature (not in ice); this is different than car tires, where a high-performance summer tire will vastly-underperform a high-performance All-Season if the ambient temperature is below 50F.  This plus I might want to ride to work in the snow (taking inappropriate things into the snow is a thing for me), so alternate tires might be a thing--or else I'll get an eBike for those days and take the light rail.

Maybe in May.  I want to kill off some loans and have enough of an emergency fund to be financially-stable after this purchase; the loans will die the first week of March.  I'm going to use a 401(k) loan ($10k, the rest cash), meaning I need $2,500 cash on hand initially to cover taxes if I default the loan; there's no risk of credit history damage in a default, so I can cancel the loan if my financial situation requires that for stability in the future.  A $300/month 36-month loan will leave me room to add to my 401(k) during the payment term, as well, so I can recover and widen my financial contingencies along the way; I'll focus on paying off the loan itself in an accelerated structure in 2018 to restore the contingency.  The total cost of a 36-month-in-full term here is 1.61% APR or roughly $250, versus an 8.49% bank loan at around $1,000 from my credit union with higher risk.

(I'm still financially-immature enough to evaluate purchases like my house and a vehicle as a 100% total loss; I can't predict resale value.)

For now, I guess I'll read more.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Damn, I wrote a long post and then accidentally deleted it. Here's the short version of my recommendations:

- Get a cheap used gas bike (the 250-300cc class these days are really nice little bikes) so you don't worry about damaging it while you build up your riding skills and proficiency. New riders do exceptionally badly with expensive bikes.

- Don't make the Zero your only vehicle. It's a great commuter and low maintenance but if you have a problem, you'll be dependent on your dealer for the turnaround time with no backup. Have a backup. It's just wise.

One minor nit is that a DS or FX will work better in sketchy winter conditions than an S model because the tires will grip better and the geometry helps balance better. Especially for a new rider.

Zeros are awesome and you've definitely got your financing figured out, but I'd get that cheap gas starter bike for the first several months to keep your risk down in multiple ways.

[bluefoxicy]

Fair points.  I'm used to having to find back-up transportation now and then, and have used rail and bus for months at a time when necessary.  I might get a $600 e-bike as a backup one day.

Why are new riders exceptionally bad with expensive bikes?  Unexpected kick from that much torque at inopportune times?

No problems with no ABS on the lower-end offerings?  I can drive a car without ABS, but a motorcycle... when bikes lose traction, nothing good happens, and a lot of nothing good happens really fast.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Why are new riders exceptionally bad with expensive bikes?  Unexpected kick from that much torque at inopportune times?

Well, yes, for a Zero that torque is a particular concern for a while. But I meant more generally that getting started with motorcycle riding often means making lots of mistakes, and it's easier to not stress out about making those mistakes if you don't have a lot of money on the line. And generally the more relaxed you are, the easier you'll be able to recover and hopefully not damage anything.

No problems with no ABS on the lower-end offerings?  I can drive a car without ABS, but a motorcycle... when bikes lose traction, nothing good happens, and a lot of nothing good happens really fast.

Honda's recent CBR300 and CB500 series and Kawasaki's Ninja 300 have ABS. It is generally a good idea to have ABS, but it's not a death sentence to not have it.

[bluefoxicy]

Ah, ok.  I usually don't consider people might be stressed in certain situations because I generally can't relate.  For perspective:  there's a giant dent in my car's rear bumper from when some guy decided to shove me out of the way and run a red light; I found the situation hilarious at the time, and my only comment was the people trying to use my car as a bullet stop while shooting at each other weren't shooting at him, so he shouldn't be in such a hurry.  Laughed the whole way home.

I can probably get a Kawasaki 250 or 500 for $2,500, no big deal.  I'm not really banking on never falling off the bike anyway; I'm still trying to figure out what I need for safety gear.  Hard-knuckle gloves, full-face helmet, boots, and a mesh jacket and pants seem obvious; I can also get neck braces, joint protectors (hard knee and elbow body armor), and spine protectors, but I don't know what's over kill.  On the other hand, I've always liked body armor--something about controlling risk.

I guess they also make drop bars and handlebar guards for the motorcycle so it gets less-damaged when you fall off, probably a good thing.

Point is it'll happen less with practice; but t-shirt and shorts isn't good riding gear ever, and there's always a chance the bike's going end over end.  You're probably right about that being more-frequent early in the riding career.

[Erasmo]

You mentioned a bike as back-up, how far is your commute?

[bluefoxicy]

Commute is 14 miles, and there's a light rail station in the parking lot of my employer's corporate office and 1.7 miles from my house.  I've walked it a few times.

I have bicycled for grocery shopping (15 miles away, even!), although these days I'm less in-shape and don't consider my willingness to put out the time and effort as reliable.  Much of it's time, really:  even an eBike is going to maintain 20mph whereas I'll average 10mph; I don't want everything to take 3 hours.  Mind you, I'll take the city streets to work for a 40-minute ride on a motorcycle; I'm not ready to get on I-83 on two wheels.

I have several contingencies.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Commute is 14 miles, and there's a light rail station in the parking lot of my employer's corporate office and 1.7 miles from my house.  I've walked it a few times.

I have bicycled for grocery shopping (15 miles away, even!), although these days I'm less in-shape and don't consider my willingness to put out the time and effort as reliable.  Much of it's time, really:  even an eBike is going to maintain 20mph whereas I'll average 10mph; I don't want everything to take 3 hours.  Mind you, I'll take the city streets to work for a 40-minute ride on a motorcycle; I'm not ready to get on I-83 on two wheels.

I have several contingencies.

You do seem like a careful, planning sort from how you write.

Well, now that I've gotten the conservative advice out of the way, the positives are mainly that dropping a Zero will generally result in limited damage to the bike (bent or rotated handlebars, say), and that the Zero's lower maintenance and operating overhead should be great when starting out.

I think you have a pretty clear picture, aside from being a new rider. Just push your limits incrementally and figure out what to learn from if you make mistakes, and practice very regularly to build up good riding habits.

[bluefoxicy]

That's good.  A coworker (who's an experienced rider) recommends getting something cheap too, similar advice.  I guess there's this thing.

I'm still targeting a Zero, but I can buy a Kawasaki right away for the riding experience.  Good to know the Zero's going to hold up to being dropped a few times, or at least are easy to repair--day one or ten years in, I doubt I can ever reasonably expect to never go over on a bike, although I know people who have come off all of once in 20 years.

Who knows?  Maybe the 2018 model will be cheaper/better/etc. or I'll be in a position to pay off my mortgage first and can take a bigger loan on a shorter term (because getting a J1772 port would make sense encourage my fantasy of a Tesla El Camino or Mazda 3 hatchback electric, also add $2,000 more cost).

[Justin Andrews]

I've dropped my Zero, sometimes there is no avoiding dropping your bike. A patch of diesel in the dark for example. The Zeros are tough bikes and can handle being dropped.

However as a new rider, you won't have the learnt reflexes to get yourself out of certain savable situations, so you will come off. Which is fine, its all part of learning to ride.

But its better to get the early spills out of the way on a cheap bike, spend the money on good protective clothing...