ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Richard230 on February 17, 2013, 05:23:35 AM
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I was visiting my BMW/Triumph dealer today and a fellow I know was having the belt drive replaced on his BMW F800ST. It had sheared off its teeth after 43,000 miles of riding (BMW recommends that the belt be replaced every 25,000 miles). The cost of the replacement belt was $450. I didn't ask how much in labor they were charging to replace it. What I found interesting was the way the belt failed. It did not break, but the teeth started sheering off a few at a time. That meant that he was able to still ride it slowly and get to the shop without being stranded.
Attached is a photo of a similar belt on a new F800GT.
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And just for fun is a picture of my Zero being serviced by my BMW dealer. ;D
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Only German technology could make a belt replacement cost $450.
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Only German technology could make a belt replacement cost $450.
But it latest longer than the Germans conservatively recommended. So figure.
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Only German technology could make a belt replacement cost $450.
Germany has a track record of excellent engineering overall. they make mistakes like everyone, but just pay the place a visit and look around. with the Euro as it has been, and the fact that you're getting what you get 5000 miles from the country of origin, i don't think it's fair to expect Japanese prices.
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The Germans do make some great bikes, and cars, but they have issues with cost of ownership.
I have owned 4 bikes now with belt final drive and this is 2-3X of what a belt replacement cost me for those motorcycles.
I looked at the F800 when it was new and BMW also had replaced the simple belt tension tool with some complex tool that only the BMW dealer had to check and adjust the belt tension. The dealer told me that it not only measured tension but considered the "harmonic frequencies" of the belt.... The upshot of that was that instead of a $15 tool that anyone could use in their garage you needed to take your F800 to the dealer every X miles where they could adjust the belt tension with their special tool and empty the owners wallet accordingly.
I don't know if they still do it that way but it seemed crazy to me as belt final drive has always been very simple, easy, and low cost to maintain in my experiences with other brands.
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BMW = Bring More Wallet. ;)
I have a friend who owns a F800ST and to my knowledge he doesn't bother to check the tension on his belt. My guess is that many other owners don't pay all that much attention to belt tension either. Of course, that probably might result in a shorter life and a greater chance of the sprockets eating the belt teeth. Once you own a motorcycle you have to make your own decisions on the value of this type of maintenance.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the belt on the F800 is made by Gates and that BMW has a substantial markup on its price. It is probably manufactured to their unique specifications. $450 seems like a lot and that doesn't include the couple of hours of $100 an hour labor it takes to replace it. Still, I prefer a belt to shaft drive on a street bike. I might add that I broke a U-joint in the Paralever shaft drive on my 1991 K100RS at 43,000 miles and that set me back $1200 in parts and labor to repair. Every motorcycle drive system has its plus and minuses. ::)
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Hard to beat the cost and ease of replacement of a chain (especially in the boonies) + survivability.
Trikester
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Trikster, will you replace the belt on the FX when you get it? I thought FX comes with belt, and MX comes with chain. I assume it is a larger change than just swapping out sprockets? Do you know what it entails?
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My 2012 DS I converted to chain myself (2010 came with chain drive). Yes, it was mounting the sprockets and cutting the chain to length with my chain break tool, plus a quick link. This time Harlan @ H.E. is doing the conversion before I pick up the FX this Friday (Yahoo!). So it will already be chain drive when I take delivery. :)
Then I will have the rear wheel re-laced (by my next-door motorcycle repair shop) with the 2.5" rim and change both tires to the Kenda K270's. 3.25" in front and 5.1" rear (hence the need for the wider rear rim, front rim stays the same). Zero gave me the make and model # of the 2.5" rear rim that will work with the hub and the factory spokes.
Trikester
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I still love my belt. no noise. went from chain 2010 to belt 2011. perfect experience. then again I am not much in the dirt. reminds me that Zero promised me that belt tension tool...
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Were we supposed to get a belt tension tool (I have a 2012 DX)?
I also prefer the belt over chains - I like to ride as quietly as possible!
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I also prefer the belt over chains - I like to ride as quietly as possible!
That's great right up until a rock takes out the belt in the back-country. :o I really have no choice or I would also go with the quiet,low maint, belt. I ride way too many rocky trails to even think about using a belt drive. When I'm riding, I frequently hear rocks hitting various parts of the bike, after being picked up and thrown by my knobby tires. Sometimes they even hit me.
Trikester
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i've never had a chain break riding in the rockies. never ridden dirt with a bike with a belt. my 12ds is certainly a smallish bike. do belts really break that much more easily in these conditions?
i've got enough dirt bikes to not really need to worry about it, but i was thinking i'd take the zero camping a few times this year (in place of the usual xr400) and somtimes the conditions are a bit brutal.
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do belts really break that much more easily in these conditions?
I think we have 2 problems:
The belt is much tighter as a chain and if something a small stone or a twig goes between, something has to give away :o.
The next problem is the big sprocket has very little clearance to the ground. If you pass by a bigger stone you can hit it with the sprocket and this wouldn't be too good for it!
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Were we supposed to get a belt tension tool (I have a 2012 DX)?
I also prefer the belt over chains - I like to ride as quietly as possible!
You have to buy your own belt-tension gauge. Amazon sells a Gates tension gauge for a very reasonable price. I believe I started a thread about this subject almost year ago on this forum describing the gauge.
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A chain can really take a beating, much better than a belt. Chains can even crush some rocks. Even a small stone between the belt and the sprocket will break the belt. A chain can easily be repaired or replaced in the field if the tools and parts are carried. I carry a chain break tool, extra quick links, and a short section of chain. Also, if I ever had to push the bike any distance I would remove the quick link and chain for easy rolling.
Of course chains make noise, require lubing, and frequent adjustment, if I was only riding pavement or smooth dirt roads then the belt would be my choice.
I saw a broken motorcycle belt lying on a busy city street. My first thought was that somebody had a bad day. >:( Second was wondering what broke the belt on paved street?
Trikester
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I ride a lot of dirt, gravel, and decomposed granite roads. I travelled a lot of dirt roads with Buell belt drive and never got stranded.
I love belt final drive for how light, clean, low maintenance and simple it is.
The Zero belt design makes it a pretty small target but there are no rock guards to keep debris out of the belt drive sprocket so I wonder how it will hold up for me since I do ride a lot of dirt.
I wish someone made an emergency spare belt drive that would clamp together and just get you out of the woods if the worst thing happens.
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Here is the belt tension guage that I use:
Krikit V-Belt Tension Gauge (91107)
http://www.amazon.com/Krikit-V-Belt-Tension-Gauge-91107/dp/B000AOEJOE/ref=pd_sbs_auto_5 (http://www.amazon.com/Krikit-V-Belt-Tension-Gauge-91107/dp/B000AOEJOE/ref=pd_sbs_auto_5)
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I think if the bike still has the factory equipped tires there is probably less chance that a rock will be kicked up because those are dual-sport for mostly pavement and lees dirt riding and have a shallow tread (FX has a little deeper tread). The Kenda K270's I use are rated 50% pavement 50% dirt and have a fairly deep knobby tread but still not as knobby as a pure dirt riding tire (non- street legal). So I think the tires used would have a big effect on the probability of a rock getting onto the belt. I hear rocks being thrown from my tires quite often.
Got my 2013 FX today. It is a fantastic bike is my opinion from just a little street riding. The handling is amazing! Doing a very slow, very tight, 360* turn I felt like I was on a mountain bicycle. I think it is going to be a great single track trail rider. Too bad a lot of single track around here is closed to motorcycles. :(
Trikester
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For someone reading this thread I figured I should post the same photo that I posted on the 2013 Zero forum.
Trikester
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Got my 2013 FX today. It is a fantastic bike is my opinion from just a little street riding. The handling is amazing! Doing a very slow, very tight, 360* turn I felt like I was on a mountain bicycle. I think it is going to be a great single track trail rider. Too bad a lot of single track around here is closed to motorcycles. :(
Trikester
Congrats! :) :'(
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Congrats on the new FX Trikester.
That is a great looking ride and should be a complete blast. I used to run the same tires as the FX uses on KLR650s and I really liked them for a DS tire.
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I am changing to the Kenda K270 tires (rated for more dirt riding). I've used them on the last two bikes and I like them, especially for sand because they have better traction there. They are dual-sport so they are designed to have lower rolling resistance on pavement than pure dirt treads do, but probably more than the tires that came on the bike. The K270's are rated 50% pavement and 50% dirt riding.
I'm going 1/4" wider on the front and 1" wider on the rear. The rear will require me to use a wider rim (2.5" in place of the 2.15" factory rim).