ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: vchampain on May 25, 2013, 08:21:01 PM
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Dear 2013 users,
Sunny days are coming and I was planning a trip with my zero S, but I wondered what range could be achieved with a passenger in realistic conditions (ie, not aggressive, but real traffic or stop & go) ? Does it strongly reduce range ?
V
Zeros S 2013 since today
140 kg, driver + passenger
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I can't recall anyone posting about riding with a passenger, much less a ride of any distance. So you might be the first person to provide rear-world performance and range experience while carrying a passenger. :)
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Dear 2013 users,
Sunny days are coming and I was planning a trip with my zero S, but I wondered what range could be achieved with a passenger in realistic conditions (ie, not aggressive, but real traffic or stop & go) ? Does it strongly reduce range ?
V
Zeros S 2013 since today
140 kg, driver + passenger
weight does not sound a lot consider two up ! Go for it. take the power cord and charge up when u have a break and enjoy. let us know how you go and you are first to report on what is possible !
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I guess two-up will be 15-20% range penalty in stop and go / low speed riding, 5-10% in highway speed riding.
Real world range for the 2012 bikes is very close to Zero's claims, provided that you ride like Zero tests.
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Thanks ! But ... well, what's the point driving like in test ? I bought an S instead of an XU to ride as far as far from tests as possible ;-)
Seriously, first impressions so far:
- wing mirror too wide, but ok turned inside-out
- very good acceleration - so far I didnt find any other bike or car able to overtake me in urban riding
- front bag big enough to put a certified lock (made compulsory in France by insurance), but relatively cheap cover (zipper !!!)
- great acceleration even with a passenger - in fact i did not notice I had a passenger
- handles for passenger are missing.
- cheap insurance (390 € for a full cover including theft & replacement at purchase price)
- simple android app, really works (with some bugs on a Samsung Galaxy Note). Too bad you can't put the max speed lower than 97 km/h, program a complex torque curve
- much better quality than 2012 models, and great look
In a nutshell, great investment.
V
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The grab bars for the 2013 S and DS bikes are built into the license plate mount. Seems kind of awkward to me.
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???? I dont think so. You would grab bars that will colect all the ravel & dirt from the road !
See pic : http://www.highsnobiety.com/files/2012/10/Meet-Your-New-Favorite-Electric-Motorcycle-01.jpeg (http://www.highsnobiety.com/files/2012/10/Meet-Your-New-Favorite-Electric-Motorcycle-01.jpeg)
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Here's what I read from motorcycle.com's review (http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2013-zero-s-review-91567.html):
"Also new are standard passenger accommodations, including grab handles integrated into the tailsection."
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could not resist:
How to ride a Motorcycle? Safe way of carrying a passenger on a Sportbike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5P5BxpJGxM#ws)
never held onto just "grab bars" - simply not save. U need to be one with the rider ! so hold on to her or him.
edit. range - so anyone got any range outcome at all on two-up riding so far ? The vid included is the first that comes up in the google search - so dont blame me, blame google.
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I think the grab bars are a US safety requirement. Most passengers will indeed grip the rider.
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That video is cute, but I really think those young ladies should have been wearing more clothes. You just never know how new teenage riders will take to that advice. I have seen boys riding motorcycles in California's Sacramento Valley during the summer wearing a helmet and not much more than those girls. You would think they would be concerned at least about sunburn, if not terminal road rash. :o
Having the girls fully dressed in protective motorcycle clothing and showing how to keep helmets from banging together while riding would have been a better public service - if not so entertaining to male riders.
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That video is cute, but I really think those young ladies should have been wearing more clothes. You just never know how new teenage riders will take to that advice. I have seen boys riding motorcycles in California's Sacramento Valley during the summer wearing a helmet and not much more than those girls. You would think they would be concerned at least about sunburn, if not terminal road rash. :o
Having the girls fully dressed in protective motorcycle clothing and showing how to keep helmets from banging together while riding would have been a better public service - if not so entertaining to male riders.
Good points - next time I google it better and do not pick the first hit ... ! At least these girls don't ride of in the video. Just sit there. Keep the helmets out of the way from banging and looking across the riders shoulder in direction of turn could be added.
We have lots of riders in thongs, shorts and sleeveless Ts here in summer and I am thinking the same, no protective gear at all. no good.
Note to non-Aussies: thongs refers to basic sandals - all plastic - and these on motorbikes ... on ICE bikes with hot exhausts...
http://www.ripcurl.com.au/shop/guys/footwear/thongs.html (http://www.ripcurl.com.au/shop/guys/footwear/thongs.html)
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Here is a great tool, based on google maps : basically, it tells you where you can go based on the number of kilometers you have left !
(Use the 2B version, very accurate mode)
http://www.freemaptools.com/how-far-can-i-travel.htm (http://www.freemaptools.com/how-far-can-i-travel.htm)
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A nice tool, now we need the same with charger locations.
I know the Collage in Kempten is doing something for a navigation system.
The plan is for rental e-cars in the Allgäu area, so user can easy plan the trip to nice destination and have always an idea where the next reachable charger is.
Hope there is some progress and maybe "same left over" for private e-user.
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Today 153 km with 18% left, 3/4 city, 1/4 highway at 110 km/h.
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I rode over to Harbor Freight in San Antonio from New Braunfels to pick up a couple things mostly by I-35 and back...total mileage was 46 miles. Got into one area of stop and go on the interstate, but otherwise it was clear. I went 70 mph about half the time going in...no faster, and monitored the bars closely. On the return trip, when it was clear there was no problem with range, I accelerated a bit more changing lanes, passing etc. and hit an indicated 75mph a couple times. Near my exit, I started flashing 2 bars and the red temp warning also started flashing about the same time. Soon as I exited and had to slow anyway, the flashing red temp icon stopped flashing and I got back home the additional 5 miles with 1 flashing bar. So the bike performed as expected with regard to range. I was a bit surprised to see the temp icon flashing while going just over 70 mph in relatively cool weather...82F. I think for interstates an indicated 70 is about all you should count on for sustained speeds, in other words. Much faster and you are going to get a temp warning. Now I have a good feel for range and sustained speed in practical terms. In practical terms, for the kind of riding I did today, the range was 46 miles. I'm sure I could probably have gone a few miles more. The beauty of the bike is that you can slow down if needbe and really extend your mileage in a pinch. You could probably limp home 10 miles on 1 bar if you went slow. I'm sure I could easily have done the trip and arrived home with 2 bars had I gone 65mph max and not accelerated so much. I have an 8.5 battery, am 5'7" and weigh 143 lbs. As you can tell from the range data from Zero, speed is a huge factor when figuring range, much more dramatic than with any ICE.
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What model do you own ? (myself : 2013 S) ?
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Same. 2013 S now with about 400 miles on it.
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165 km on a 2013 S 11.4 with a passenger used ~13KWh
Average speed of the total day trip: 40 KM/H
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Ran a little experiment tonight. Just got back from a 60-mile round trip ride, but this time kept it to 65 mph or less with most riding right at 50 mph. No interstates this time and that makes a huge difference. The range increased a lot as we knew it would. When I drove into the garage I was just down to the last 2 flashing bars which means probably I could have easily gone another 10 miles at 60 mph. Looks like I would have no trouble with a 70-mile range on secondary roads like state highways with speed limits of 55-60 and keep up with traffic.
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Just down to 2 flashing bars IME means you have 25% of the pack left (9 bars used of 11 visible + 1 hidden bar). So 75 miles @ your 50-65 mph riding.
Edit: woops, forgot you had the ZF8.5. You're getting about the right range for a ZF8.5.
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Yes, it is a bit lower and also the sustained speed is considerably lower than advertised on my bike. My flashing temp came on with the bike under 75 mph.
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However, just a while ago I headed over to I-35 and did 20 miles on the interstate as close to 75 mph as possible and did not get a temp warning light, so that 80 mph sustained Zero claims may be close afterall. I am very pleased with the bike. Now if the major parts just hold up and motors don't start burning out like on the 2011, it should be a good bike for me. I did make the right choice as far as battery size. This one does everything I would want except make a run into the Univ. of Tx at San Antonio or Austin round trip, but the larger battey wouldn't for that either. All my local haunts are well within the 8.5 kw range.
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Btw, Aaron at Zero Motorcycles keeps a log of his trips and it is accessible via google docs at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjJTX8eelLXqdGx0MDJPUEtmaTJ3TmlzNkRTZEdGMXc#gid=0 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjJTX8eelLXqdGx0MDJPUEtmaTJ3TmlzNkRTZEdGMXc#gid=0)
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Thanks. He rides almost as much as me.
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I just updated my log for last week. I take a picture of the dash after each ride and use a Kill-A-Watt to check the charging data. You'll see in the notes where I forgot a measurement or messed something up by stopping along the way and recharging. I am sure the Zero lawyers would want me to add something like "your mileage may vary." But this is my real daily commute data or trips up to Alices.
FWIW, I just added the heated grips to prove to myself that they have negligible impact on range.
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Seems like such a high-tech motorcycle could have a more accurate reading of remaining miles at current speed at least when the last couple of bars start to flash. If you really have 25 miles left at that point, it would be nice to know that. Many cars have readouts of remaining range before you run out of gas. I've gone to 1 flashing light and ridden 5 more miles or so, but I'm not brave enough to try much more than that without more accurate info on remaining charge. I live at the top of a hill.
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My 2009 BMW F650GS has a miles-to-empty readout on its computer when it is on "reserve". But many people (including some magazine testers) complained that it was not all that accurate and now BMW has changed the readout on their latest models to miles-ridden-since-you-went-on-reserve. I like the other system better, as I thought that my readout was pretty accurate.
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Seems like such a high-tech motorcycle could have a more accurate reading of remaining miles at current speed at least when the last couple of bars start to flash. If you really have 25 miles left at that point, it would be nice to know that.
How would that be possible when the bike doesn't know what you're going to do with the remaining power? Even if you decide to carefully go no faster than 40mph and you've got flat roads you might suddenly run into a strong wind.
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You'd certainly need to program a route into an onboard navigation system. Could perhaps link with phone.
The navigation system could predict traffic ahead - Google or Waze - and terrain.
https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/javascript/examples/layer-traffic (https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/javascript/examples/layer-traffic)
Wind speeds are available once per hour from the National Weather Service (http://ndfd.weather.gov/technical.htm).
http://hint.fm/wind/ (http://hint.fm/wind/)
The BMS has very good information about temperature, battery state of charge, wear characteristics. Estimating available charge is not a trivial process - as we've seen this winter - but this will improve in time.
The bike should be able to dynamically calculate rolling drag, based upon total cargo weight, tire pressure and stickiness. Aero drag can be calculated with an air speed sensor.
With all of this said, I think you could still do a reasonable estimate with much less information. I'd show a predicted range with +5, +0, -5 mph at the current rate of travel.
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I just got back from a 105.6 mi. ride. Rode it like a moped max speed was 45 but av. was about 33 mph. We have wide shoulders or passing lanes almost everywhere in Texas so it wasn't dangerous going that slow. Got 2 flashing bars at 87 miles, 1 bar at 96, zero bars at 104.7 (like a video game...zero lives but you can still fight on), and decided to get back. I'll never again ride that slow most likely, but it is nice to know if needbe, I could get at least the 103 miles city mileage Zero advertises.
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So far, according to the app, I have an average of 62 WH/Km, which should mean an average (10KWH/62) range of 161 km - for a mix of "sportive city" & higway driving, alone or with a passenger. Closer to the "combined" range given by Zero.