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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Too little too late on April 28, 2020, 10:30:38 PM
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2018 Zero S with 4200 almost trouble free miles. First hose wash on Sunday, now showing logic errors. It thinks it's plugged in. The indicator light randomly comes on, and it won't move from a stop. But in between flashes I can get it to go. The indicator still flashes when I'm moving, but it then flashes the triangle of doom too. Charged it last night, and the triangle of doom was flashing. Three flashes and a pause, three flashes and a pause. This subject was covered back in 2013. It was said that in time it will dry out and take care of itself. It sat in the driveway in full sun all Sunday afternoon, so we'll see what happens. I hope it takes care of itself before it go's poof, but as of this morning it's still acting stupid. Today I have 110 mile ride. I hope it gets better, and also gets me back home.
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Isolation faults. It'll probably dry out. Most likely worst case scenario you'll have to dig out the DC-DC, dry it out, and apply some dielectric grease.
The bad news is the DC-DC is the most irritating part of this bike to access and I hate it with a hot passion.
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What I do when washing my bike is to use a light spray from a garden hose nozzle to wash off the surface dirt, then hand wash with soap and water using a mitt, followed by another spray to wash off the soapy water. Then I use a leaf blower, or something similar, to blow the water out of the works. I follow that up with a ride around the neighborhood. So far I have not suffered any moisture issues. :)
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I do not recommend using a hose on any Zero to wash it, at least on the frame and tail. Just hand wash it and rinse with a separate sponge or towel or mitt or whatever.
If you have to wash the motor fins, spray across the bike and not from the rear, to ensure any water is directed out to open space and not to areas that can trap water. And let the accessory charging port plug dry out by taking its rubber boot off and letting it drain, then re-covering it.
Directing water at the frame is not guaranteed but possible to get water past greased connections and cause an isolation fault in a number of areas. The Accessory Charging Port enable pins are one area, and so is the DC-DC converter connector on the left side of the bike under the frame.
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I do not recommend using a hose on any Zero to wash it, at least on the frame and tail. Just hand wash it and rinse with a separate sponge or towel or mitt or whatever.
I go one step further and use no rinse car wash, using the two bucket method.
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So far I've only used dry and wet rags, but mostly because it's such a pain to use hose and water.
-Crissa
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I use Vulcanet wet wipes and dry it off with the supplied dry cloth. It can be used on everything (plastic, metal, headlight, mirror, paint etc) and leaves a very nice shiny finish (like it has been waxed)
Now I don't ride when it is raining or has been raining so I have no idea whether it is useful on a bike which rides in all weathers. It does a great job at encapsulating dirt because you can use the wipes even when they are black with dirt (but still moist)
https://vulcanet.shop/uk/ (https://vulcanet.shop/uk/)
)]https://www.tenkateshop.com/?q=vulcanet#sqr:(q[vulcanet]) (https://www.tenkateshop.com/?q=vulcanet#sqr:(q[vulcanet)
for a quick clean without the wheels a single wipe is sufficient (85 in a box of around 45 euro)
a more thorough clean takes about 3 wipes including the wheels and a full clean maybe 1 or 2 more.
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A bike that isn't resistant to hose washing and rain riding is very poorly designed, totally unacceptable, not fit to own.
My 16FX has ventured up the hills a few times during heavy rainstorms, with a hose wash upon return. So far there's been no problem whatsoever. I'd like to think it's because of smart design and not just luck.
Connectors and seals should be very water resistant. In particular, manufacturers of dual-sport e-bikes should shoot for a couple of minutes of operation fully submersed.
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Most of the times when I've had errors pop up on my DS it's been after given it a wash (lighting hosing to wash off the big chucks, scrub with a cloth, and then rinse off again with the hose) although only a few days after. I try to be as careful as I can with the hose and where I spray it and from which direction, and I dry it off well with a blower, so I can't be completely sure that water is the cause of the issues but still I now avoiding going off road after it's rained and don't wash the bike very often.
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A bike that isn't resistant to hose washing and rain riding is very poorly designed, totally unacceptable, not fit to own.
My 16FX has ventured up the hills a few times during heavy rainstorms, with a hose wash upon return. So far there's been no problem whatsoever. I'd like to think it's because of smart design and not just luck.
Connectors and seals should be very water resistant. In particular, manufacturers of dual-sport e-bikes should shoot for a couple of minutes of operation fully submersed.
The engineering around rain protection is what making a vehicle for the public demands, and Zero and other manufacturers clear that hurdle mostly well.
This idea that a vehicle not rated for hose washing is unfit to own is not the same at all, and Zero is not the only manufacturer whose bikes are vulnerable. Brammo was more vulnerable than Zero models were, easily.
I'll make this clearer: protection from rain and protection from a hose entering the chassis in arbitrary directions are totally different problems, and equating them is naive.
Zero could absolutely do better, and I'm doing my best to call out the specific issues (DC-DC connector for one, but also the Accessory Charging Port, and the BMS panel although they've been diligent about the battery case), but there is an inherent challenge in making an EV with enough features and performance resistant to ingress in all shapes and forms with only the weight and form factor of a motorcycle.
I think the truth is: these motorcycles require preventative maintenance to clean and regrease sensitive areas to prevent the development of ground loops (isolation faults), especially if kept outdoors. That's not a world-ending product flaw, that's just a problem with messaging and manufacturer-owner relationships.
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To be clear, EV cars don't have these kinds of problems because they can over-engineer all of the protective elements (strain relief, bracketing, enclosures, modular isolation boundaries) and the weight cost is negligible compared to the batteries so no one complains.
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Yeah, I've ridden through thunderstorms with no problem.
But a hose could hit the vulnerable spots, flood them, or abrade the protective coatings with force.
And even cars sprout leaks eventually. My ten year old Sentra started filling up the sump in the back to the point I had to leave it open to drain and hook up a heater to keep the inside from growing mildew.
-Crissa
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I'm not talking about power washing, which I don't on any vehicle. That risks several types of damage without actually taking all the dirt off or speeding up the washing process.
I've never owned a bike that wasn't rain and hose resistant, and never will. That is a ridiculous proposition. I used to go on regular True Grit rides with my riding groups. We sought out the worst weather, geared up and made the greatest memories. Nobody even remotely worried about their bike getting drenched or malfunctioning. It was not a thing, and cannot be.
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I doubt there's many motorcycles that won't have one or two conk out from a bad spritz from a hose. They all depend upon keeping their electronics dry, the air intakes airy, and use the same things to do it. Electric motorcycles just have more connectors and more places for water to go wrong.
Not like we didn't kill the CB in the rain before. If it went in the intake, it would have died and stayed dead.
-Crissa
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Uh, I've never once damaged a motorcycle with a hosepipe.
Pressure washer, yes (blew up dash console on KTM, my stupid fault). But not a hose.
Obvs. not so stupid as to hose down the keyholes or the exhaust.
It. Should. Not. Break.
Hosing is part of standard, regular, necessary maintenance of a motorcycle. It must be able to withstand hosing.
Cas :)
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If you can break it with a pressure washer, someone can break it with a garden hose. If you can break it by dunking it in a lake, someone can break it by hitting it with a hose.
Random smaller chances aren't no chance at all.
-Crissa
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What can I say... I totally disagree. I've never had a bike I could break with a hosepipe. It's how we clean them.
Cas :)
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From the owners manual of a 2018 S/DS/DSR/SR (page 6.26)
Cleaning
CAUTION: Improper cleaning can damage electrical components, cowlings, panels, and other plastic parts. Do not use high pressure water or steam cleaners; they can cause water intrusion of bearing, seals, and electrical components. Avoid spraying water of great force around the dash unit, quick charge connector, power pack, or controller.
To prolong the life of your motorcycle it should be washed periodically. Regular cleaning is an important factor in maintaining the value of your motorcycle. It also ensures that safety related parts remain in full working order.
If tar, bugs, or other similar deposits have accumulated, clean them off as soon as possible.
WARNING! After cleaning and before starting your journey, always test the brakes.
Washing
CAUTION: Do not use any harsh chemical products on plastic parts. Be sure to avoid using cloths or sponges which have been in contact with strong abrasive cleaning products, solvent or thinner, fuel (gasoline), rust removers or inhibitors, brake fluid, antifreeze, or electrolyte.
Note: We recommend the use of a garden hose to wash your motorcycle. High-pressure washers (like those at coin-operated car washes) can damage certain parts.
1. Gently wash your motorcycle with a sponge or a clean soft cloth, mild detergent, and plenty of water.
2. Use care when cleaning the plastic parts (dash, fenders, and side panels), which can scratch easier than the other parts of your motorcycle
3. After washing, rinse your motorcycle thoroughly with plenty of clean water to remove any detergent residue.
4. Dry your motorcycle with a chamois or a soft, dry towel.
5. After cleaning, inspect for damage, wear or leaks.
After washing the motorcycle, allow all of the electrical components to dry prior to operation. If the motorcycle is ridden after being washed, apply both brakes several times in order to remove any moisture from the brake pads.
Wheels and tires
Avoid using strong acidic wheel cleaners, especially on spoked wheels. If such products are used on hard-to-remove dirt, do not leave the cleaner on the affected area any longer than instructed. Also thoroughly rinse the area off with water, immediately dry it, and then apply a corrosion protection spray.
Do not use products such as tire dressings on tires as this will deteriorate traction.
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I think Zero's recommendation here is not strong enough. It recommends a hose but doesn't indicate how to use or not use that hose, which I think is a good indication that it's weak.
I think Zero could do a lot better in dealing with this issue:
- Owners clearly do get faults from hose washing (and I don't dispute that and I know for many cases why there can be faults).
- The faults are not 100% risk-free: most of these faults on their own with hose water are absolutely fine but in combination with other issues could be risky.
This is not something the manufacturer should let the owner think is 100% reliable, especially because there are invisible quality issues like how grease is applied to critical spots, and whether that grease is still in place.