ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Tech => Parts, Mods And Hacks => Topic started by: Christian Frankl on October 28, 2014, 04:40:51 PM
-
Hello Forum users!
I am new in this forum, almost as new as my Zero Fx is. I live in Germany and do ride my FX mostly offroad.
Because of the fact that the grip on offroad can change very fast, I am not very satisfied with the two-step
recuperating possibility, controlled by smartphone.
Instead of using the brake switch and the gas grip as the two "steps" to get recuperation, I would rather prefer
to handle the recuperation through a analog input of the Sevcon Controller.
Therefore we would have tow possibilities:
1: Usa a "two way" throttle grip:
Let me explain this. The normal way turning the gas grip will speed up. (like it does now)
From the zero position of the gas grip where a small latch could let the rider feel the „zero position“ you can turn the gas grip to the opposite side. This would cause a stepless regulation of the recuperation.
It would give the rider a much better way to handle the fast changing characteristic of the ground (wet, muddy, hard, dry and so on).
The rear wheel would not lock because of too high settings of the recuperation mode.
With this feature we could load more, if the ground is hard, or load less, if the ground is slippery.
I hope, you understand my explanation.
2. Use of pressure sensor at the handlebar, like a clutchlever. So the rider could decide to use the recuperation level from 0-100% instead of the rear-brake, or also use the footbreak to do additional breaking. This would be my first try to use this solution. Because it would be more safe than to use the throttle grip. Although I think, that the throttle grip would much more handy...
Is anybody here, who has used the Analog input of the Sevcon Gen4 Controller at Pin 23 and 35?
Is there any programming at the controller neccessary and if, with what kind of programmer?
I am working as electronic technician, so I have access to different CAN Utlities at work.
It would be very helpful, If somebody has already some experiences with the Controller.
The task itself to use the recuperation analog, is not too big, as i believe.
By the way: Where is the Bluetooth changing data inside the controller?
Best regards from Bavaria, Germany.
Christian
-
It is a very good idea, in English we use regen instead of recuperation :).
check Burton post showing 2013 circuit diagram, it give you some idea how zero does regen.
throttle is at J10 bottom right.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.0)
I think vectrix scooters did variable regen like you describe they had it patented so that may be why others can not do same.
"Riding the Vectrix is like nothing else. The twistgrip control works like a motorcycle throttle — rotate the top of the grip rearward for more power. But unlike a motorcycle, the twistgrip also acts as a brake: rolling the top of the grip forward engages regenerative braking, recharging the battery as the scooter slows."
http://visforvoltage.org/book/ev-collaborative-hand-books/13441 (http://visforvoltage.org/book/ev-collaborative-hand-books/13441)
"The innovative twistgrip has yet another trick: from a standstill, twisting the grip forward activates reverse, helping the rider (slowly) back out of a tight parking space."
edited 2012 > 2013 and added "quotes"
-
I am going to be making a regen circuit here shortly. Just waiting on DVT to come in and my extra crimping pins. I will be sure to make a well documented write up.
It doesn't seem hard to do but the main issue is you are going to need DVT unless you are just toggling between sport / eco mode. I have a 2013 btw firepower. That stated the existing wire diagram will not matter too much as we will be focusing mainly on the pinout of the sevcon gen 4. Meaning you shouldn't need a wire diagram to do this. But you will likely need to find someone with DVT near you or mail your controller to someone who has it to set it up.
Basically what you will do is figure out if your controller is using pin 34 or 35 for the existing throttle and use the other one for regen. (see attached image) This is not something you can plug and play right now and it likely will not be so long as we are using sevcon controllers.
-
I love the idea of an analog, rider-controlled regeneration. My choice for a controller would be a "clutch" lever on the left hand grip. The left side of my body gets very bored on my Zero.
-
Doc posted this video in another thread talking about variable regneration:
http://youtu.be/M-lIV70_JMs?list=UUmsDIFDQFgADl5sIP8GM0Lw (http://youtu.be/M-lIV70_JMs?list=UUmsDIFDQFgADl5sIP8GM0Lw)
Original thread here:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3744.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3744.0)
-
I've had a long conversation about this with a couple friends. A person who used to work there and another who still does
Your idea is clever with the throttle moving both ways
The idea we were thing was more like a clutch lever that if you pull it free spins and if you leave it off full regeneration, the regen can be bumped up greatly but it's a retune; and not very many have access to the right scripts. I believe they have only been used on a few rare bikes.
On one of my bikes we have tuned more regen, but it's also a modified "mmx" we dubbed the FXr. But it also has the sds motor / size 6 controller so it naturally has a lot more everything and then in such a small bike it creates an unbelievable amount of control despite being a complete monster! All in all I would love a more variable regen, but I beleive its not used for the same reason as the clutch just not worth it.
Unlike the 5.7 fx when you power wheelie you have to let off or use the rear brake (which I don't like to do and never do) the bike has a moment where the wheel free spins my modified bike has instant regen and will pull the bike back down so I'm then able to do roll on wheelies for much much longer.... Hope that makes sense
Another option is lowering the coasting downhill speed
As is all fx's. Automatically hold you to 32~33 mph going down a steep downhill
This could be changed to 25 ish which in my opinion would be a little more useful epically on steep decents
-
Cortezdtv did you have to use DVT in order to reprogram your bike?
I plan on making my analog clutch lever switchable so you can have it set to full out and max regen or full out and no regen. For me the latter makes more sense for commuting but I still want the other option for going down hill. This will not be hard to do with a standard pot switch which has 3 inputs.
-
This is what I use since 2 years.
-
Wow!!!
BSDThw
Curious to what you use it for and how???
Use it to turn obit off regen??? How did you program
Dvt?? Had a friend get some engineers to make the script, I'm sure there are a few people trying to make one now; hard part is done once you add the motor and controller you reflash the ccu mbb and the controller with the "new script"
What are you curious about more than willing to help
-
The box has a gearing inside, it was something like a clock/timer that was broken and stored in a box to be rediscovered :)
It was helpful to convert the small lever travel, to enough rotation, to twist the 5KOhm poti.
I use the second analog input of the Sevcon, as a brake input. I also use an analog output to trigger a relay while braking/regn to switch on the brake light.
You need DVT to make all this settings.
I also have a push-button that switch the bike in revers. Actually you can switch in revers and use the throttle to brake but I think it is to dangerous because if you slip the bike will accelerate again.
-
Wow impressive!!
Might have to copy something like that for my fx love the idea along with the brake light actually going on when your in regen
-
Burton
The Sevcon diagram has one problem. We have a version with sin/cos encoder. The second power supply for the analog input is used for the encoder.
You can use the throttle supply but if you put an additional load (poti) the supply voltage will drop a bit.
The result is if you open the throttle it will not apply 100% torque so maybe 95%. If can be fixed in two ways.
If you program the sevcon with an higher max torque-value it will pretend a higher torque and you will have 100% again. Or you set the throttle parameter new - but it is a bit tricky because wire off detection is done with the end value of the throttle voltage!
-
The Sevcon diagram has one problem. We have a version with sin/cos encoder. The second power supply for the analog input is used for the encoder.
Shoot you're right! I just looked at my wire diagram and the pinout diagram for the sevcon >_<
My max torque is already higher than stock lol.
What do you mean by "wire off?" And when you say end value you mean "max" throttle setting? (will have more questions when these are clarified)
Wonder if Doc has a better way he could suggest with his electrical engineering know-how. :D
I am ok with setting the torque setting higher ... seems the safest option.
-
Wire off is the term for the scenario a wire will break or loos contact.
In this case your throttle input will have the full voltage and your bike will accelerate uncontrolled.
Therefore the input value has a gap of some mV. If the value reach that height the sevcon shut off with throttle fault.
-
http://youtu.be/M-lIV70_JMs (http://youtu.be/M-lIV70_JMs)
An interesting take on a brake lever, rather than a moving lever with a pot, it uses a strain gauge to send an analog signal into the controller.
-ryan
-
Hi folks!
thanks for the lots of replys to my question!
A few things would be handy for me to know:
has anybody a source for those pins to contact the potentiometer to the controller?
I have access to Digikey, Mouser, etc for electronic equipment.
What is the exact labeling of this DVT? Do you have a brand or a type of this programmer?
The software needed for this programmer: Where can it be purchased? How much is the software?
Thanks for any information!
-
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-gen4-pc-based-programming-kit.html (http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-gen4-pc-based-programming-kit.html)
You would have to email these guys to make sure this copy of DVT is using the USB-to-CAN V1. V2 > requires a license key only Sevcon can give you and you have to have a business to get it >_<
You can find some V1 IXXAT USB-to-CAN devices on ebay occasionally but you would have to set up an alert. Version 1 will run with the old software which doesn't require a license key from sevcon.