ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: zugvogel on May 29, 2019, 08:58:13 PM
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I am reading a lot here on the chargers dying on seemingly all zero models.
Does anyone know it the SR/F is using the same chargers or if they switched supplier or at least the model?
I am not really looking forward to having to replace them during my ownership...
Also, is the problem really that prevalent or is it just another thing blown out of proportion on the interwebs?
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I am reading a lot here on the chargers dying on seemingly all zero models.
Does anyone know it the SR/F is using the same chargers or if they switched supplier or at least the model?
I am not really looking forward to having to replace them during my ownership...
Also, is the problem really that prevalent or is it just another thing blown out of proportion on the interwebs?
I have noticed on any motorcycle forum it makes one feel some problems are very common. But that seems to be because few will get in a forum to say they have had no problems. I doubt if any problem is really as common as most forms make them seem.
FWIW, I never had any issues with any of my Zero chargers.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Absolutely not. The SR/F is using a completely new design, not involving Calex, which delivers 3kW (at 220V) per module and is also positioned better to avoid heating the battery and also to reduce exposure to dirt and moisture.
Zero's term for this in the manual is Rapid Charge Module.
I honestly want to keep encouraging Zero to adapt these modules to the existing platform, for at least the reason that they are lighter weight and higher performance, but the newer generation of components should be less prone to failure in a few ways.
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The SR-F has all new chargers, they are Zero branded and are now 3kW instead of the 1.3kW greenwatt power units. They are also much smaller and feature a cooling fan which the greenwatt power unit didn't have
in the Zero Motorcycles Owners group on Facebook there is a picture of them
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2706528692695579&set=pcb.2088166297919234&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2706528692695579&set=pcb.2088166297919234&type=3&theater)
Also The Standard SR-F has a single 3 kW charger, while the premium has 2 of the 3kW chargers.
An additional 6kW charge tank can be added into the tank area to get the total up to 9kW (standard) or 12 kW (premium)
The Zero rep I spoke to last weekend said to me that when you have a standard version it is not (easily) possible to add a 3kW charger first (the second one that is already installed on a premium version) and then add the charge tank. The standard and the premium have different wiring harnesses. But hey, anything is possible right :)
And for a little side stepping :
Here in Europe we have a lot of 3 phase EVSE's and I've heard that the first charger of 3 kW will be on Phase 1 (both the standard and premium), the second charger will be on phase 2 (only premium) and that the chargetank (of 6kW) will be on phase 3. So the power from each phase is 3, 3 and 6 kW. I was wondering if Zero would ever offer a third 3 kW charger on the third phase, so that the system is balanced (3, 3 and 3 kW) and because the 3kW charger is smaller than the 6 kW charge tank, there would be some room left in the "frunk" for storing the required charging cable. Because with a charge tank there would be absolutely no space left for such a cable.
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and a picture of a "naked" SR/F 8)
The charge tank would go where the big black bucket now is.
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The SR/F is using a completely new design, not involving Calex, which delivers 3kW (at 220V) per module and is also positioned better to avoid heating the battery and also to reduce exposure to dirt and moisture.
I am unclear on the SR/F charging options. Are they in 3KW increments up to 12KW? Is it possible to buy the bike with a 3, 6 , 9 & 12 KWHs worth of charger?
-Don- Reno, NV
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The SR/F is using a completely new design, not involving Calex, which delivers 3kW (at 220V) per module and is also positioned better to avoid heating the battery and also to reduce exposure to dirt and moisture.
I am unclear on the SR/F charging options. Are they in 3KW increments up to 12KW? Is it possible to buy the bike with a 3, 6 , 9 & 12 KWHs worth of charger?
-Don- Reno, NV
My understanding is:
Standard edition: 3W (stock) + 6W (optional charge tank) = either 3W or 9W
Premium edition 2 x 3W (stock) + 6W (optional charge tank) = either 6W or 12W
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My understanding is:
Standard edition: 3W (stock) + 6W (optional charge tank) = either 3W or 9W
Premium edition 2 x 3W (stock) + 6W (optional charge tank) = either 6W or 12W
I assume you mean KW ;D.
Thanks for clearing that up. Looks like the only difference is the extra 3KW charger.
-Don- Reno, NV
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My understanding is:
Standard edition: 3W (stock) + 6W (optional charge tank) = either 3W or 9W
Premium edition 2 x 3W (stock) + 6W (optional charge tank) = either 6W or 12W
Does this mean it can have both 6KW of charging plus a Power Tank?
And by any chance does anybody here know if the SR/F has the connector for the external Zero Quick Chargers?
-Don- Reno, NV
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My understanding is:
Standard edition: 3W (stock) + 6W (optional charge tank) = either 3W or 9W
Premium edition 2 x 3W (stock) + 6W (optional charge tank) = either 6W or 12W
Does this mean it can have both 6KW of charging plus a Power Tank?
And by any chance does anybody here know if the SR/F has the connector for the external Zero Quick Chargers?
-Don- Reno, NV
[/quote from my understanding, if you buy On the premium model you get 2 3W ( 6W total) stock chargers built in between the battery and tank. You can then either add the charge tank for 12W charging or the power tank for more range. I am considering eventually adding the power tank to my premium SR/F to have the best of both worlds.
As for the external charging connectors, I believe I read the SR/F doesn't have then but someone else with more knowledge will have to chime in on that one.
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Yes, the SR/F Premium with a Power Tank would have 6kW of charging with the 18kWh of capacity.
I’ve not examined the cabling thoroughly, but engineering sources say there are no ports like an Anderson connector to accommodate additional chargers. The Pikes Peak build has three such connectors, but that’s not a production feature.
I believe the bike could be adjusted to have them, but it’d not be a reasonable task for the average owner.
One solution would be controller terminal connections or the like, as some have done with the current generation, but those can be implemented badly, which is very risky and can cause a thermal event inside the tail under the seat. I improved the unofficial manual instructions for that, but it’s not plug and play.
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a picture can sometimes say more than a thousand words :)
See the attached picture.
The front 3 kW charger is always present on both standard and premium versions.
The second 3 kW charger is only available on the premium model
The 6kW charger above (in the tank area) is optional for both standard and premium OR a powertank of 3.6kWh can be installed in that location.
I've not heard of an external connection for a charger and have not found one when i test rode a demo SR/F last weekend. It is also not listed in the owners manual.
However it is very likely that the connection for the chargetank and/or powertank is already installed under the tank plastics. That way an extension cable can be fabricated to connect up an external charger.
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Yes, the SR/F Premium with a Power Tank would have 6kW of charging with the 18kWh of capacity.
I’ve not examined the cabling thoroughly, but engineering sources say there are no ports like an Anderson connector to accommodate additional chargers. The Pikes Peak build has three such connectors, but that’s not a production feature.
I believe the bike could be adjusted to have them, but it’d not be a reasonable task for the average owner.
One solution would be controller terminal connections or the like, as some have done with the current generation, but those can be implemented badly, which is very risky and can cause a thermal event inside the tail under the seat. I improved the unofficial manual instructions for that, but it’s not plug and play.
Good practice for a controller connection is the installation of a suitable fuse to protect the additional wiring. That way in case of a short in the additional controller connection wiring this fuse will blow and not the 300A fuse in the batterypack dog housing. (that would be a big pain to replace, not even speaking of the waranty issues)
The fuse I installed is a JJN-150 which is a higher current version (150A fast acting) of the stock installed JJN-100 which is a 100 Amp fast acting fuse.
It fits very nicely on top of the controller terminal but it does require a slightly longer bolt to be installed to have sufficient threads left.
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Yes, the SR/F Premium with a Power Tank would have 6kW of charging with the 18kWh of capacity.
I’ve not examined the cabling thoroughly, but engineering sources say there are no ports like an Anderson connector to accommodate additional chargers. The Pikes Peak build has three such connectors, but that’s not a production feature.
I believe the bike could be adjusted to have them, but it’d not be a reasonable task for the average owner.
One solution would be controller terminal connections or the like, as some have done with the current generation, but those can be implemented badly, which is very risky and can cause a thermal event inside the tail under the seat. I improved the unofficial manual instructions for that, but it’s not plug and play.
Good practice for a controller connection is the installation of a suitable fuse to protect the additional wiring. That way in case of a short in the additional controller connection wiring this fuse will blow and not the 300A fuse in the batterypack dog housing. (that would be a big pain to replace, not even speaking of the waranty issues)
The fuse I installed is a JJN-150 which is a higher current version (150A fast acting) of the stock installed JJN-100 which is a 100 Amp fast acting fuse.
It fits very nicely on top of the controller terminal but it does require a slightly longer bolt to be installed to have sufficient threads left.
While you probably executed this in a competent manner, the trouble is asking a random owner to implement this, or having an owner DIY it without consulting a professional.
The issue is typically not whether the circuit is protected - it is whether any resistance is added to the circuit resulting in heat buildup and a thermal event.
For this, we have to at least ensure that owners do not replace bolts except with bolts of the correct alloy etc. To this date, we do not have a positive confirmation of what bolts may be substituted. We recommend that owners re-use the stock bolts for lugs that are not too thick.
The other aspect is ensuring that owners do not crossthread, overtorque, or undertorque the bolts and that the lug stack is suitable for the volume of current flow typically encountered in all situations.