ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: JaimeC on April 18, 2016, 10:23:20 PM
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I SHOULD be picking up the S this Saturday if the stars all align correctly. HOWEVER I just discovered I have an unexpected expense: I checked with a trusted electrician and he said that since the bike will draw up to 12 amps during its recharging phase, I should have a dedicated line in the garage. If I use the existing circuit, I could blow a circuit breaker if the bike is charging and I use the garage door opener.
So... looking at approximately $700.00 to get that done. Salesman never mentioned anything like that, and I don't recall seeing anything like that online either. Just "recharges on standard 120V AC house current." Be warned!
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I would guess that a majority of Zero owners don't have a dedicated line.
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My circuit breaker's popped a couple of times over the 10 months I've owned mine. It's no big deal, you just flip it back. And no, I don't use a dedicated circuit.
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Yes and no. It is a good idea to have a dedicated circuit for the bike since it does use more than half of the capacity. But if you have only one garage door opener, check its current use. If it's 2 to 3 amps, circuit breaker trips should be rare. If your opener turns on incandescent bulbs, replace them with LED to buy a little more reassurance. My bike normally draws 10 to 11 amps. Give it a try before spending the money.
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I charge mine on the same circuit as the garage door opener with no problem. If you have at least a 20 amp circuit I think you'll be OK. I would certainly try it frst before spending $700. What's the harm if it trips the breaker?
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Our door opener does indeed turn on fluorescent lights when it is activated. What is the problem with a circuit breaker blowing?
Our garage is not attached, it is approximately 40 feet from the house. My wife uses a walker to get around. If the circuit breaker blows when I'm not home, she'll need to climb back up the deck to the house, take her stairlift down into the basement, and make her way to the opposite end of the basement to throw the switch. Then back up to the garage to do whatever it is she wanted to go in there for in the first place.
I don't know about you guys but for me that is a BIG problem.
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I'd get a chimp and train him to flip the breaker. Only downsides would be the poop flinging and the face ripping, but otherwise, a sound decision. ;)
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You certainly have good reasons for not wanting to trip the breaker but I would still do the math before spending the money. Do you know the circuit amperage and the current draw of the opener? If it's too close for comfort, then pay your electrician.
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Not sure if this is reassuring, or if I'll get roasted by some EE's, but...
My garage line is on a GFCI circuit that is shared with the master bathroom. It has only tripped once in the 5 months I've owned an FX, when my wife was running some high draw hair products. Otherwise, no problems.
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What else do you have in the garage that uses electricity? The only thing often found in a garage that you do not yourself control and that might compete with the Zero is a sump pump if you have one - these things draw a lot of initial current, but run for only seconds at a time.
You most likely have a dedicated line to the garage. No need for an electrician to tell you if you have or not - just check if you have a fuse (circuit breaker) in your fuse box that only turns off the garage. It should be labeled and you can turn it off to see what it actually controls. And if you can confirm you do have a separate circuit in the garage, and as long as you just use it for the Zero it should be fine. Just make sure on that garage line you do not have a sump pump or anything else connected to it that can turn on automatically (normally you shouldn't). Your A/C and the rest of the house should be on other circuit breakers. Is that not the case?
I SHOULD be picking up the S this Saturday if the stars all align correctly. HOWEVER I just discovered I have an unexpected expense: I checked with a trusted electrician and he said that since the bike will draw up to 12 amps during its recharging phase, I should have a dedicated line in the garage. If I use the existing circuit, I could blow a circuit breaker if the bike is charging and I use the garage door opener.
So... looking at approximately $700.00 to get that done. Salesman never mentioned anything like that, and I don't recall seeing anything like that online either. Just "recharges on standard 120V AC house current." Be warned!
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Do you know how much power your garage door and lights pull?
The charger will draw up to 1.2kW and a 120V, 15Amp plug should be able to handle up to 1.8kW. There is a good possibility that it will work for you.
If you can figure out whether the garage door and lights use about 500W or less then you may be in good shape.
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Where do you live that running a new circuit costs $700?
Try it without it. I do have mine on a 20amp GFCI outlet that is actually outside my garage. I've had to reset the outlet today (didn't flip the circuit breaker) but that could be for any number of reasons. My plan was to add an internal outlet on the same circuit (since the outside outlet rarely gets used) but I was planning on doing that work myself.
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I use a digital timer on the plug for my bike which only allows charging during the night when I am not going to be opening the garage anyway. I do this because I am on a time of use plan and the rates are cheaper at night, but this might be a $10 solution rather than a $700 one.
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I would be willing to bet you never blow a breaker. If you are super worried about it, don't have your wife open or close the garage without unplugging the bike first, but when you first get the bike, why don't you try opening and closing the garage a few times with it plugged in. If nothing happens then you are just worrying for the sake of worrying because there is no problem. Right? :)
There is no sense in spending money on something that your electrician friend says is a problem, yet I'll bet almost no one who owns a Zero has run a dedicated line to charge using the onboard charger. See what I'm saying? Just try it and see how it goes. I'll bet everything is just fine.
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You may all be right and I may be worrying about nothing (but it's what I do). I'll keep everyone posted.
As for where it costs $700 to run a dedicated line? I live in the most expensive area to live in the United States (according to Forbes Magazine): Long Island, NY. I was actually expecting it to be much more expensive.
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How about just running a quality extension cord from another circuit... maybe the laundry room or kitchen or...
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No worrie with that... i am in teh same situation as you and i have installed a 20A breaker circuit and also a QUALITY SURGE SUPRRESSOR protector to protect the Zero charger against voltage peak and spike. this will garanty you that your Zero cahrger will last longer. I also did that with my Maytag washer to protect the $$$ electronic iside.
What make breaker to pop when you have a garage door opener is the inrush current when the induction motor start.. then the stabilized current ls way lower.
Anyway... in all situation.. the worst that could happen is that you hit the garage door button while you forgot that your Zero is still on the same breaker and charging... and pop it...
The solution: reactivate it.. lol.. if you find that to avoid that few time it Worth paying 700$ of electrician fe.. it,s up to you but personally it hapenned to me during the 2 first years that i own a zero and i'm still able to sleep every night without any nightmare ;)
Oh.. and .. personally i am more confident about myself installing a 20A circuit in my garage than any electrician.. i saw a couple installing stuff and they just work too fast and dont pay atention to every détails like i do....
Doc
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I trust myself to fatally electocute myself if I ever attempted anything like that. This particular electrician has been recommended by several close friends and relatives. I trust his judgement.
I do have other power tools (like an air compressor) in the garage. I think for peace of mind it would be far better for me to have a dedicated circuit for the Zero and not have to worry about the garage door opener, the Battery tenders keeping my ICE bikes "alive" and the overhead fluorescent lights (not to mention the exterior motion detector lights).
Hey, I just sunk over $16K on a motorcycle. I'm not about to start pinching pennies now. That comes LATER.
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I use the same circuit as my garage door opener and have never had an issue, If you use a extention reel however be warned, unless you get the correct gauge for your application and completely unwind it before use it can get extremely HOT, melt and smoke! i unfortunately had to find this out through personal experience. Shame on me for not knowing better but people with electrical backgrounds will not be the only people to purchase these vehicles and it will happen to someone else.
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My garage has a single outlet and no door other than the garage door (very old style garage that is basically a concrete car port), so I at first just put in an LED lamp for the opener.
On the other hand, the breaker for the circuit has tripped due to outside loads on the same circuit and left me temporarily unable to open the garage to get to my bike. This particularly made me worry about charger quality issues, so I just put a surge protector and soon I'll put a timer on.
I would definitely avoid using an extension cord for a Zero; much better to use fixed-install circuits for that to minimize wear and quality issues and instead use an extension cord if at all for other, temporary loads.
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As long as you are spending money to put in a new outlet I would put in a NEMA 14-50. Then you will have enough juice to support a fast charger if you decide to get one down the road. Also, installation of charging equipment at your home qualifies for 30% Federal tax credit and a new outlet qualifies.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
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Excellent suggestion mrwilsn.
By the way, I think Jamie is lying. It's not a garage door, it's a portcullis and he lives in a castle! [emoji6]
+1 to just testing it a few times before coughing.
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I'd run two 20A lines while you are at it. The labor and materials should not be that much more. That way you are good for a secondary charger if you pick one up. I have one extra charger and the faster charge times are nice. I ran two new 20A circuits to my garage as soon as I placed my DSR order this year (I'm used to doing my own electrical). My existing circuit was only 15A in the garage, and I wanted an additional one anyway, so I ran two. I'd imagine a good piece of the labor cost is running the line, and running two is almost as easy as running one.
Steve
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I spoke to the electrician last night, and two 20 amp lines is EXACTLY what he had in mind when he quoted me the price. Also, he will be bringing the wiring up to "code" as the outlets in the garage are rather old. So it looks like we're all on the same page. Unfortunately, the earliest he can come and do it is Tuesday, May 3rd and I'm HOPING to get the bike this Saturday. Fingers crossed that you guys are correct and I won't have any issues with our existing wiring...
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If you do get issues, I think you can set the power level for the charging to less than the max. Slower charging, but fewer potential problems, you can also use a longer or smaller gauge and lighter/cheaper extension cord at lower power levels.
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Just run an extension chord from the house to the garage for the garage door opener. A 50' good quality extension chord runs under 40 bucks. Bam! Solution fixed.
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i believe Zero's recommendation for extension cords is a maximum of 25 foot marine grade wire.
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I've used a 50' 14 gauge extension cord many times without incident.
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Dvdwin was suggesting the extension cord for the garage door opener, not the Zero. :)
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Dvdwin was suggesting the extension cord for the garage door opener, not the Zero. :)
Oops, read it too fast. Cheers!
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As said before, the majority of the expense is simply accessing the outlets and running the lines, so while he's there and doing it, tell him to run a 50 amp (or even 100 amp if you ever think you'll get a Tesla) 240 outlet along with the two 20 amp outlet(s) for the Zero.
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I charge mine on the same circuit as the garage door opener with no problem. If you have at least a 20 amp circuit I think you'll be OK. I would certainly try it frst before spending $700. What's the harm if it trips the breaker?
Well, I have to eat my own words on this one. Today I went out to check the Zero and though it was plugged in, the digital display was blank. Couldn't figure it out but then this thread came to mind and sure enough, the breaker had tripped. First time in 1 1/2 years. I suspect that the breaker is getting old because I have seen breakers just fail. Nonetheless, my garage door opener and my Zero plugged into a 20 amp circuit did indeed pop the breaker. Thanks to the OP for bringing it up which probably saved me a few minutes of head scratching.
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That's why I join forums like this... to tap into the collective experiences! :D
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Never had a dedicated line, tripped a breaker once.
The most wealthy guys I know are lawyers, plumbers and electricians. So maybe you get the bike then see if you need the expense.
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...they just work too fast and dont pay atention to every détails like i do....
This applies to everything. Your car. Your house. EVERYTHING. You will always take more time and put forth more effort to do your own stuff than anyone else can afford to do for you.
So as long as you're qualified to do a better job, you will do a better job.
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Never had a dedicated line, tripped a breaker once.
The most wealthy guys I know are lawyers, plumbers and electricians. So maybe you get the bike then see if you need the expense.
More importantly, the expense is also bringing the wiring in the garage up to "code." It's a bit of a mess right now with the face plate falling off one of the outlets already. Might as well get it done right. Also, since I'm getting this done SPECIFICALLY to charge up an electric vehicle, I can claim it on my Federal return next year and get my 30% tax rebate.
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Just learned that none of the outlets in the garage are actually grounded! Lovely. Glad I decided to get this done. Unfortunately, it won't be finished today as it is raining, so the electrician is just completing the "indoor work" inside the house. He'll be back on a sunnier day to run the cabling out to the garage.
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Just learned that none of the outlets in the garage are actually grounded! Lovely. Glad I decided to get this done. Unfortunately, it won't be finished today as it is raining, so the electrician is just completing the "indoor work" inside the house. He'll be back on a sunnier day to run the cabling out to the garage.
Those highly paid NY electricians cant work in a little weather? :p
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Somehow I don't think electricity and rain go together very well... :P
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Somehow I don't think electricity and rain go together very well... :P
Somehow I think if hes working on a live line as hes laying it.... He isn't a very good electrician. :p
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Not up to code! Where's the Zero drama thread?
I'm glad you're getting the work done too. Temporarily, maybe you can pull the disconnect on the garage door opener chain to open/close it by hand. Enjoy the new ride!
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MichaelJohn:
yeah, those motor loads can draw a burst of power, dim the lights and stuff, not surprised a garage door opener might trip the circuit while it's close to max charging an EV.
I used to own a device that did current-limiting on motorized devices, Green something or other. I verified it did indeed save energy by logging kwh used with and without over a series of months. IIRC it was around 10-15% savings. It definitely limited those wasteful peak inrush currents.
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Just Finished Mine!
I routed a second 20AMP circuit into my garage, tight roof pitch made me open up the soffit to access the top of the wall and the heavy gauge wire made me swap out and use deep outlet boxes or I could not close them up.
It was HOT in the attic! The top of my ladder was 120F. I demoted the old circuit to be a future attic exhaust fan.
Now both Zeros can charge at the same time, in very nearly the same place. No more changing charging cables in the middle of the night.