ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: skadamo on February 07, 2012, 11:42:36 PM
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Hey all, I should have the chance to talk with Scot Harden (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/company/team-zero.php) - VP OF GLOBAL MARKETING at Zero very soon.
Any questions you would like to hear the answers to? Any messages you would like passed on?
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Ask him why they didn't move the "English/Metric" selector switch to a more obscure place so it couldn't be pressed accidently so easily when intending to push the odometer zeroing switch. This happens very often in the dark. I pointed this out in 2010 and I would have thought they would have done a little more human engineering by now. The English/Metric select switch will only be used once in the life of the bike, in most cases. It should be like those recessed reset switches on a lot of modern digital equipment, where you push it with a paper clip.
FC
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First up, congratulate him on the 2012 bikes. They look like they're really well done - big advances from the 2011 bikes and a head above any other shipping e-bike IMO.
Is Zero going to get involved in TTX IOM or TTXGP in a bigger way? K Squared Racing might as well be a factory team, and they've had mixed results in TTXGP so far (1st place at 2010/Infineon, DNF at 2011/Laguna Seca). Hype for this year's TTXGP series is looking like it's a "go big or go home" shift..
When can we expect to see major motorcycling publications review the new 2012 bikes?
Zero dealerships are starting to crop up all over the place. We even have one in lonely AL here .. (though it's in the wrong city! that's another discussion..) What are Zero's plans for supporting those dealerships and continuing to get demo bikes out where people can see, touch, and ride them?
Zero's range guidance (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/) is honestly the best available from any EV manufacturer, 2 wheeled or 4 wheeled. However, it's quite dated at this point - based on the 2010 S. Can we expect to see an update for the 2012 bikes?
Zero markets the ZF6 and ZF9 bikes as 6kwh and 9kwh respectively, based upon the battery pack maximum capacity rating. Zero claims (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/specs.php) "[m]aximum capacity tends to be the electric vehicle industry’s choice for reporting the maximum amount of energy that can be stored in a vehicle’s power pack." As far as I can tell (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=1053.msg7005#msg7005), Brammo, Nissan, and Tesla all report the lower nominal capacity rating instead of maximum capacity for their production vehicles. Zero is the only "major" manufacturer that I'm aware of that uses a maximum capacity rating as its primary marketing point for its bikes, and it has done so at least since the 2010 bikes. Can Zero name other manufacturers that use a maximum capacity rating? Even if other manufacturers report capacity as maximum rating, it feels like a disingenuous practice at best..
Also WRT marketing, the "highway commuting" range is pretty well defined if you click the explanation icon (50% highway cruising miles, 50% UDDS miles), but I see numerous people (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=1925.msg5341#msg5341) and publications (http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012-zero-ds-fz9-quick-look) trip up and mistake "highway commuting" for "steady state cruising". It would be nice to see Zero explicitly specify the steady-state freeway cruising range of the bikes in addition to specifying a "highway commuting" range. Again, range guidance is good.
Let's start some trash talk! Brammo expects to ship the Enertia Plus and the Empulse sometime soon - best we've heard is "shipping 2012 riding season". How much lead does Zero think they have on Brammo? Once they do ship, does Zero think the Enertia Plus or the Empulse is the closest competition to the S?
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I would very much like to know if Zero plans to take full advantage of the J-1772 standard (240V, 10A, reduced-charging time). If not, why not? They've made the bike so that you can quick-charge it at home - clearly the battery pack can handle the extra voltage/current.
After riding electric for years - I can say that waiting for the bike to charge is the hardest part.
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J1772 specifies various charging levels up to 80A, I believe.
Delta-Q makes a 3.3 kw charger (http://www.delta-q.com/products/qmx3_3.html) that can pull up to 16A at 240V AC. Slightly larger and heavier than the QuiQ 1kw charger in the S. Only problem is it supports a minimum DC output voltage of 200V and a maximum output current of 11A, and at least the default unit is liquid-cooled. Really more of a car charger, I think.
I'd like to see a faster onboard charger as well.
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My questions are very minor at this time. I would like Zero to produce an accessory catalog, listing their accessories for the bike and maybe adding some clothing items, too. Right now my accessory wish list would include a plug to seal off the charging cord port and a clear plastic cover for the charger status opening. Both openings face the front of the bike, are located behind the front wheel and can pick up a lot of road dirt when riding. They look to be very difficult to clean if they get mucked up.
I would also really like a luggage rack and a couple of grab bars to parallel the rear fairing so that I could swing a set of soft saddlebags over the seat without having to worry about scratching the paint.
A spool attachment for the rear swing arm would be nice so that I could lift the rear of the bike with my shop stand should I have to change the rear wheel.
And during the next revision of the owner's manual, how about inserting a section on removing and replacing the front and rear wheels.
I'll leave the big questions to protomech. I just want the little stuff taken care of. Thank you very much. :)
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My questions are very minor at this time. I would like Zero to produce an accessory catalog, listing their accessories for the bike and maybe adding some clothing items, too.
That's a good point. Zero has a bunch of accessories in their online store, but they need to clean it up and perhaps organize it by bike model and year.
They have some cool things on there like wiring adapters to use a 2011 X/XU battery in a 2010 bike. It would be neat to see those continue to be made available, eg adapters for the 2012 pack for the 2010/2011 bikes.
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Skadamo - are you going to the motorcycle show in Chicago? That's awesome if you are - lots of pics (your signature close ups would be appreciated.)
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Hey BF, yes. IMS Chicago Friday at noon before the crowds. Last year I got to talk to Aaron Frank who lives just north of the Cheddar Curtain and has ridden most of the unobtainium electric motorcycles. Hope we can chat again this year if he is there.
Zero pics for sure!
Thanks for the great ?'s guys. I will make a list and see what I can find out.
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I would very much like to know if Zero plans to take full advantage of the J-1772 standard (240V, 10A, reduced-charging time). If not, why not? They've made the bike so that you can quick-charge it at home - clearly the battery pack can handle the extra voltage/current.
After riding electric for years - I can say that waiting for the bike to charge is the hardest part.
question from the 240V country australia ! if Zero improves the charges that it can take full advantage of higher voltage it would be great. Most international markets run on 220 - 240V --
as I have the 2011 S the old "upgradeability" question comes up. What areas does Zero offer as upgrades ? Guess at least improved software on a regular base would be great.
T
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Hi Richard 230,
I have a plug, I bought for my Zero S, it's a dummy plug that will fix your concern. If you contact me i'll mail it to you. It works a treat, i've riden Matt's 2012 DS at Metcalf and he say's he never has a problem, just sprays it out and it works fine. For sure it's water proof.
Regarding accessories, I saw a pre-release at my local dealer of over 50 accessories, including a luggage rack, soft bags, two windscreen and a bunch more cool stuff. He avised it would go live on the site April 1st 2012.
Keep charging!
Rossi 46
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Right now my accessory wish list would include a plug to seal off the charging cord port and a clear plastic cover for the charger status opening. Both openings face the front of the bike, are located behind the front wheel and can pick up a lot of road dirt when riding. They look to be very difficult to clean if they get mucked up.
They are currently sourcing the plug for the charging cord. The bikes on the show floor had a clear plastic cover over the charger status opening. Wonder if yours is missing?
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No clear covers on the front of my bike. The charger status inspection opening and the plug port are wide open and exposed to the elements. The only cover I received was a plastic cover for the power cord prongs that plug into the wall outlet.
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Well Scot Harden was not there, or at least I did not see him. They had sales guys from various levels starting with and including John Lloyd. I talked to a guy named Jeff (did not get last name) who started with Zero 5 days ago. He is former Vectrix. I also talked to another guy whose name I did not get before he had to move on. The second guy knew of this forum and mentioned people at Zero read your posts here.
Below is what I was able to find out. I admit I did not get as many answers as I wanted which is partially my fault. But at least you know the questions are making it to Zero since some of them read this forum.
First up, congratulate him on the 2012 bikes. They look like they're really well done - big advances from the 2011 bikes and a head above any other shipping e-bike IMO.
I passed this on to a few guys and they were happy to hear it.
Is Zero going to get involved in TTX IOM or TTXGP in a bigger way? K Squared Racing might as well be a factory team, and they've had mixed results in TTXGP so far (1st place at 2010/Infineon, DNF at 2011/Laguna Seca). Hype for this year's TTXGP series is looking like it's a "go big or go home" shift..
I asked but I did not get the idea they were going racing. However, Kenyon was mentioned and it sounds like they speculated he might get something going again on his own(ish)? No solid answer but it sounds like Zero does not have plans for a factory race team.
When can we expect to see major motorcycling publications review the new 2012 bikes?
forgot to ask! :/ Guys from Motorcyclist were there tho.
Zero dealerships are starting to crop up all over the place. We even have one in lonely AL here .. (though it's in the wrong city! that's another discussion..) What are Zero's plans for supporting those dealerships and continuing to get demo bikes out where people can see, touch, and ride them?
forgot to ask :/ ...but it came up in group conversation that it would make a big difference in getting the word out.
Zero's range guidance (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/) is honestly the best available from any EV manufacturer, 2 wheeled or 4 wheeled. However, it's quite dated at this point - based on the 2010 S. Can we expect to see an update for the 2012 bikes?
I mentioned this. So maybe if enough people mention it they will update?
Zero markets the ZF6 and ZF9 bikes as 6kwh and 9kwh respectively, based upon the battery pack maximum capacity rating. Zero claims (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/specs.php) "[m]aximum capacity tends to be the electric vehicle industry’s choice for reporting the maximum amount of energy that can be stored in a vehicle’s power pack." As far as I can tell (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=1053.msg7005#msg7005), Brammo, Nissan, and Tesla all report the lower nominal capacity rating instead of maximum capacity for their production vehicles. Zero is the only "major" manufacturer that I'm aware of that uses a maximum capacity rating as its primary marketing point for its bikes, and it has done so at least since the 2010 bikes. Can Zero name other manufacturers that use a maximum capacity rating? Even if other manufacturers report capacity as maximum rating, it feels like a disingenuous practice at best..
I did not feel like tackling this one based on responses I got on other questions. I don't think anyone I talked to were responsible for this information. It's a good question though.
Also WRT marketing, the "highway commuting" range is pretty well defined if you click the explanation icon (50% highway cruising miles, 50% UDDS miles), but I see numerous people (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=1925.msg5341#msg5341) and publications (http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012-zero-ds-fz9-quick-look) trip up and mistake "highway commuting" for "steady state cruising". It would be nice to see Zero explicitly specify the steady-state freeway cruising range of the bikes in addition to specifying a "highway commuting" range. Again, range guidance is good.
I mentioned this. So maybe if enough people mention it they will update?
Let's start some trash talk! Brammo expects to ship the Enertia Plus and the Empulse sometime soon - best we've heard is "shipping 2012 riding season". How much lead does Zero think they have on Brammo? Once they do ship, does Zero think the Enertia Plus or the Empulse is the closest competition to the S?
I did not ask this question exactly but overheard a Zero guy saying they are looking forward to Brammo's next bike. The more manufacturers in the mix the better at this point. I'm paraphrasing but that was his view in a nut shell.
I also asked about the best selling model. It is the Zero DS.
Main demographic is 40 - 50 year old guys with $. It's usually a second or third bike it sounds like.
I asked about whether people can feel safe buying a used Zero and not knowing if the battery was maintained. The answer was that the diagnostic equipment can pull every charge that took place and some very specific information on how the bike was ridden. Data is stored on a per-cell level. You have to go to an authorized Zero dealer for this information to be accessed.
I have audio from the Zero presentation which I will post later.
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No clear covers on the front of my bike. The charger status inspection opening and the plug port are wide open and exposed to the elements. The only cover I received was a plastic cover for the power cord prongs that plug into the wall outlet.
Well, I meant maybe they were never on the bike or fell off before delivery. Maybe they did not have them until recently? I'd definitely ask your dealer about that.
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I have to ride on wet streets today, so my solution is to cover the openings with clear package sealing tape. I hope it sticks for the next 40 miles. ;)
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Man I hate to ride my babies in rain. I keep them pristine and they would get dirty in places it takes me hours to get sparkling clean again. At least you don't have to re-oil the chain or clean the air filter. Is the motor completely sealed or can mud get splashed up and inside the motor?
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The motor is ventilated to the air and is exposed to the environment. But maybe that fan inside the motor keeps a positive pressure inside it to keep the worst of the dust and grunge out of the works. :)
And I didn't ride today. It was just too wet and that sparkling red on those wheels looks too nice to be covered with dirt and water spots. :-[
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I am sure the engineers at Zero have done a lot of worse stuff to their evaluation bikes than you would even think of doing to your bike. What would you do if someone tossed you the keys to a bike and said, try and break it.
I wouldn't worry at all about getting lots of water in there by the plug and charger lights, I am sure if there is a problem it would have been addressed long before the bikes made it into the hands of the customers, especially if the "fix" were to put a bit of tape over the holes. Infact, those holes might be needed to allow water to drain out of the battery if it gets in somewhere else.
-ryan
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Actually I have no concerns about water damaging the works, I just like to keep things clean. ;)
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Motorcycle.com recently interviewed Scot Harden (http://www.motorcycle.com/events/the-state-of-zero-in-2012-and-beyond-91231.html) (published Feb 09 2012).
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Thanks for the link, Protomech. That was an interesting article and interview.
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Great interview. Glad to hear iPhone integration and ability to tune the bike has not been forgotten.
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And here is something else that I would like to know. Why does the Zero S have both an analog and a digital speedometer? ??? I can only look at one speedometer at a time. ::) Now a real-time amp meter might be a little more useful and fun to watch ( I guess a tachometer might not be that informative), instead of keeping track of your speed twice. ;)