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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: 2014ZeroSR on September 20, 2016, 08:09:04 AM
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2014 SR with PT
Mileage = 17002
115vac wall outlet - checks good.
Second dedicated 115vac outlet - also checks good.
Bike charging cable - checks good
Second charging cable - also checks good, same results
2014 Owners manual is incorrect. It shows four fuses on the back of the battery, one of which is for the on-board charger. As a few posters have mentioned before, there are only two fuses, neither of which is for the on-board charger.
Bike is running well - it's now parked at 42% as I can't charge it.
Error codes - none
When plugging in, nothing happens:
[1] No click
[2] No green light
[3] No display
Bike is only charged with provided on-board charger.
Bike is plugged in when at home.
Two questions:
[1] Any suggestion(s) to prevent a trip to the dealer.
[2] If I had a fast charger, could I still charge the bike with this ‘no charge’ issue?
Dealer visit will be this Friday.
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Error codes - none
When plugging in, nothing happens:
[1] No click
[2] No green light
[3] No display
Bike is only charged with provided on-board charger.
Bike is plugged in when at home.
Two questions:
[1] Any suggestion(s) to prevent a trip to the dealer.
[2] If I had a fast charger, could I still charge the bike with this ‘no charge’ issue?
I can only say that for [2], if you can key the bike on and the contactor shuts, you can charge through the aux power port while the contactor stays shut. There's a timeout that is likely set to 30 minutes (1800 seconds in the MBB settings) that will open the contactor after that much inactivity. Tweaking the throttle every once in a while will bypass the timeout (or I think turning the cutout switch to off and holding the throttle open should do the same? I haven't tested this in earnest yet).
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Thanks for the info BrianTRice. I wish I could verify your belief but without a fast charger I'm out of luck. Off to the dealer I go on Friday. Hoping San Jose BMW is able to repair it quickly.
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Can you hear a low clicking sound coming from the battery pack when you plug in?
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Can you hear a low clicking sound coming from the battery pack when you plug in?
WoadRaider - Dead silence, no sound(s) at all.
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Lol, I hate to beat a dead horse but.. You have good hearing and put your head down near the battery? If there's no sound I have no idea.
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2015 SR did the same thing - charger failure.
Didn't detect being plugged in at all - I could even drive it while plugged in.
No errors, because it didn't have an indication it was plugged in.
No clicks, no pops, no nothing.
Took a trip to the dealer.
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2015 SR did the same thing - charger failure.
Didn't detect being plugged in at all - I could even drive it while plugged in.
No errors, because it didn't have an indication it was plugged in.
No clicks, no pops, no nothing.
Took a trip to the dealer.
Lol, I hate to beat a dead horse but.. You have good hearing and put your head down near the battery? If there's no sound I have no idea.
WoadRaider - no noise(s) at all when plugging in.
ctrlburn - Your charger failed as mine has.
Questions:
[1] Odometer when it failed (approximate)?
[2] Cost to replace if known?
[3] any other useful info?
Thought - I wonder how common a failure this is?
Update 1 - my 14 SR - Charger failure per San Jose BMW.
Bike is out of warranty as of Aug 23, 2016 (about a month).
Will Zero cover any of the repair(s) because it’s just past the two (2) year mark? Also, I’m hoping Zero will take into account my six (6) month loss of the bike during the warranty period for accident repairs.
Whatever Zero does, I’m looking forward to the return of my bike.
Since the charger failure, I’ve been using my road bike - Getting gasoline is such an unpleasant experience. Its so nice to wake up with a full tank, ready to go.
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Charger failure is on of the weaker point with Zero's, but they are doing a decent job replacing them.
Best to give you're dealer a call, I would expect them to do the repair under warranty.
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Chargers should be included in the power pack warranty, what's the point of 5years warranty on power pack if you can't charge it.
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My 2014 S charger is still hanging in there after 10K miles and a lot of charging for short period of times - typically about 4 hours to fully recharge the battery pack. I used to keep the charger plugged in all of the time, but when I heard about charger failures, I started pulling the plug after two days, when the charge read 100%. (On my bike, it bulk charges to 98% and then shuts down for about 30 hours. Then it completes charging and balancing the pack to 100%, which is when I pull the plug. The pack remains fully charged for at least a week, which it typically as long as I wait until riding the bike again.
I don't mind paying for a new charger, as long as they are still available for the bike once it is out of warranty, and is a just a plug-in repair, which doesn't require a tear-down of the bike to replace. :o
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My 2014 S charger is still hanging in there after 10K miles and a lot of charging for short period of times - typically about 4 hours to fully recharge the battery pack. I used to keep the charger plugged in all of the time, but when I heard about charger failures, I started pulling the plug after two days, when the charge read 100%. (On my bike, it bulk charges to 98% and then shuts down for about 30 hours. Then it completes charging and balancing the pack to 100%, which is when I pull the plug. The pack remains fully charged for at least a week, which it typically as long as I wait until riding the bike again.
I don't mind paying for a new charger, as long as they are still available for the bike once it is out of warranty, and is a just a plug-in repair, which doesn't require a tear-down of the bike to replace. :o
The charger draws barely any current when battery is full. Mine failed last night after I plugged it in with 75% remaining, and it got the bike to 80% before going up in smoke. I would imagine that no chargers have failed under no load when the battery is full.
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Do we know what exactly is failing on these chargers?
The chargers do get hot and don't have active cooling. I'm inclined to believe that contributes to the failures. And I'm not convinced the generated heat is harmless for the battery above them either.
I avoid charging in hot weather, so I often forgo charging at work and instead am charging mainly at home in a cool garage, and having a fan create active air circulation at the charger/battery.
Those who have charger failures - it'd be interesting to know if you kept the bikes plugged in most of the time and whether you charge in warm or hot weather.
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Those who have charger failures - it'd be interesting to know if you kept the bikes plugged in most of the time and whether you charge in warm or hot weather.
Mine went out while charging in a cool garage, on a cooler day.
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Do we know what exactly is failing on these chargers?
The chargers do get hot and don't have active cooling. I'm inclined to believe that contributes to the failures. And I'm not convinced the generated heat is harmless for the battery above them either.
I avoid charging in hot weather, so I often forgo charging at work and instead am charging mainly at home in a cool garage, and having a fan create active air circulation at the charger/battery.
Kocho - I also think heat is the primary killer of these chargers. My stock cable got hot from it's first use. After a month or so, I became so concerned about the heat, I started using an external fan to keep the cable cool whenever I charged - only the cable, not so much for the charger. I touched the bottom of the bike under the charger and discovered it was quite hot. My thought at the time was - It must be OK because Zero performed the necessary R&D to make it OK. I wish now I had redirected the airflow to include the charger. When the bike returns, I will use the fan to cool both.
+++++
Those who have charger failures - it'd be interesting to know if you kept the bikes plugged in most of the time and whether you charge in warm or hot weather.
Kocho - My charger usage -
Charge cycles, I think about 500. When the bike returns, I'll include the number is my final update.
Charged - almost everyday.
Bike is stored outside, but always under cover, thus the annual temps here normally range from about 25f to 102f.
Charging - I use a timer to turn the charger off when finished. I calculate the time required and add one hour to the timer to ensure the bike fully charged for the next day.
Bike usage - I will ride as long as the payment is dry. Temps, extreme cold or hot is not a deterrent thus the bike is charged most days.
++++++
My 2014 S charger is still hanging in there after 10K miles and a lot of charging for short period of times....
Richard - 10k is not very much, neither is 17K (my failure).
Fan idea - I think Kocho is dead on with the fan idea cooling the charger.
++++++
(On my bike, it bulk charges to 98% and then shuts down for about 30 hours. Then it completes charging and balancing the pack to 100%....
Richard - Is this normal? Shouldn't it charge until it finishes? Not take a break for 30 hours, then finishes. Mine used to charge until it was finished. I wonder if anyone else has experienced the same as yourself.
Chargers should be included in the power pack warranty, what's the point of 5years warranty on power pack if you can't charge it.
firepower - +1
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2014ZeroSR said: Richard - Is this normal? Shouldn't it charge until it finishes? Not take a break for 30 hours, then finishes. Mine used to charge until it was finished. I wonder if anyone else has experienced the same as yourself.
I have no idea if this is normal or not. It is just what my bike does every time when charging at home. However, when I charge up at my daughter' home, located a 37-mile ride north of San Francisco, the display will show a 100% charge when it cuts off after 4 hours of charging. ??? The only thing different between her electricity and my electricity is that at my house I am seeing 125 volts from that wall, but at her home I see 118 volts, using the same Kill A Watt meter.
All I care about is that the charger and the rest of the bike still work and get me down the road. However, I agree that having chargers fail after just a few hundred recharges and less than 20K miles of riding is unacceptable, considering that the battery pack is supposed to last (in my case) for around 350,000 miles. At that mileage, the cost of replacement chargers could really add up! :o
In my opinion Zero needs to find another (more reliable) vendor to replace their current brand of on-board chargers. This may be a case of an off-the-shelf electrical device not being up to the rigors of motorcycle usage. ???
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Mine just failed today. I have just over 34k mikes on the bike, 2014S and it is the first time it has failed. Interesting sequence of events... There was an odd hissing sound followed by a circuit breaker trip and then the acrid odor familiar with electrical component frying. Nothing happens now when I plug it in.
Sent an email to Harlan to see what can be done. About 3 months past the 2 year warranty. I'll be interested to see if it is covered under the power pack 5 year warranty.
Anyway, charging is usually done in mid 70s to 80s at 220V.
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Good, very good news.
Zero ‘did’ cover the whole replacement process even though the bike was out-of warranty.
The on-board charger was the issue.
Total repair cost was probably about $1k - Charger ($830), Diagnosis and labor ($170)
I took the bike to San Jose BMW.
Repair time line:
Sep 23 - bike dropped off (Friday afternoon)
Sep 28 - San Jose BMW calls, advised the charger is bad.
Oct 7 - Bike is ready (Friday)
Overall, I was pleased with the shop.
New on-board charger - when charging, case temp to the touch is much cooler than old unit. Charging cable temp is also much cooler to the touch (barely warm).
I’m now following BrianTRice’s method of charging - i.e. flow air over the on-board charger when charging whenever possible. Thanks BrianTRice for the idea.
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Excellent news!
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Interesting reading... I wonder if the newest chargers are different/better than the old ones or do they just degrade over time and eventually overheat and fry. My new 2016 SR charges at a regular 120V outlet with the original cable only getting slightly warm sometimes but never hot, so I was surprised at the reports of hot cables and such.
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It would be interesting to open one up and see what burned out. Electrolyte capacitors are known to go out over time, but I don't know what's really inside of those chargers.
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Interesting reading... I wonder if the newest chargers are different/better than the old ones or do they just degrade over time and eventually overheat and fry. My new 2016 SR charges at a regular 120V outlet with the original cable only getting slightly warm sometimes but never hot, so I was surprised at the reports of hot cables and such.
What I've heard is that some Calex 1200 revisions had reliability issues and the design was fixed by the time they were sourced for the 2016 models. So, that's a claim that it was specific to a certain generation of the design.
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My 2014S just stopped charging. 15k miles.
I barely made it to San Jose BMW.
I went to work with a low charge and figured I'd charge there.
No luck, so I called my dealer.
They said it just went out of warrenty but that Zero has been covering these charging issues.
Let's hope so.
Just drove off with a loaner scooter.
Will know more tomorrow.
Just got confirmation that the charger is bad.
New one on order. Waiting for Zero to reply to request to cover costs.
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Well just got the bad news that Zero will not cover the charger as it is out of warranty.
This just plain sucks!
As others have mentioned, what good is having a longer warranty on the battery if it cannot be charged.
I'm not sure I'd buy another Zero if it costs so much to repair after only 16k miles.
Especially given the initial purchase prise.
Shame on Zero. I won't be recommending there product anymore.
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Well just got the bad news that Zero will not cover the charger as it is out of warranty.
This just plain sucks!
As others have mentioned, what good is having a longer warranty on the battery if it cannot be charged.
I'm not sure I'd buy another Zero if it costs so much to repair after only 16k miles.
Especially given the initial purchase prise.
Shame on Zero. I won't be recommending there product anymore.
There's an opportunity to improve the charging system.
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Glad that worked out for you. It's amazing to me that since charger failures are common, why oh why don't shops have them in stock and us Zero owners always have to wait 2 or more weeks for a repair.
Good, very good news.
Zero ‘did’ cover the whole replacement process even though the bike was out-of warranty.
The on-board charger was the issue.
Total repair cost was probably about $1k - Charger ($830), Diagnosis and labor ($170)
I took the bike to San Jose BMW.
Repair time line:
Sep 23 - bike dropped off (Friday afternoon)
Sep 28 - San Jose BMW calls, advised the charger is bad.
Oct 7 - Bike is ready (Friday)
Overall, I was pleased with the shop.
New on-board charger - when charging, case temp to the touch is much cooler than old unit. Charging cable temp is also much cooler to the touch (barely warm).
I’m now following BrianTRice’s method of charging - i.e. flow air over the on-board charger when charging whenever possible. Thanks BrianTRice for the idea.
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Well just got the bad news that Zero will not cover the charger as it is out of warranty.
This just plain sucks!
As others have mentioned, what good is having a longer warranty on the battery if it cannot be charged.
I'm not sure I'd buy another Zero if it costs so much to repair after only 16k miles.
Especially given the initial purchase prise.
Shame on Zero. I won't be recommending there product anymore.
Re,
is that true?
I thought, MY 2014 S/DS/SR/DSR has the GreenWattPower's Calex EVC-116-1200?
GWP offers a 5-year-warranty:
http://www.greenwattpower.com/1300evc.html (http://www.greenwattpower.com/1300evc.html)
I would try to contact Zero by myself ...
Thanks,
Mario.
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I've been using this Wi-Fi switch for over a year now - you can use your smart phone to set the time the switch turns on and off.
I charge at night when it's cooler and the electricity is cheaper ;-)
It also allows you to monitor how much electricity you're using - and you can use the mobile app from anywhere you are connected to the internet.
I have no brand preference (WEMO is actually quite difficult to set up), but this set up has worked for me.
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I've been using this Wi-Fi switch for over a year now - you can use your smart phone to set the time the switch turns on and off.
I charge at night when it's cooler and the electricity is cheaper ;-)
It also allows you to monitor how much electricity you're using - and you can use the mobile app from anywhere you are connected to the internet.
I have no brand preference (WEMO is actually quite difficult to set up), but this set up has worked for me.
I considered this exact model and held off out of electrical anxiety about the continuous current rating. I'll try it now, thanks.
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I've been using this Wi-Fi switch for over a year now - you can use your smart phone to set the time the switch turns on and off.
I charge at night when it's cooler and the electricity is cheaper ;-)
It also allows you to monitor how much electricity you're using - and you can use the mobile app from anywhere you are connected to the internet.
I have no brand preference (WEMO is actually quite difficult to set up), but this set up has worked for me.
I'll second the WeMo *INSIGHT* switches and point out that the ouimeaux library in GitHub can be used to measure and control the switch with python. I've been successfully charging at night, programmatically stopping charge when current decreases by 20% to end up with an indicated SoC of 96% in the morning, which means my Regen works when I go down the hill.
-- edit --
Added the word INSIGHT to the above just now, since only that variant measures power. These are branded Belkin Wemo Insight now.
I'll also note that there seems to be little difference between the 120VAC and the 240VAC versions besides the physical connector, I hesitantly tried a north american unit on 240VAC and it worked fine, so far so good, haven't burned down the house yet. I am *not* recommending anyone else take this risk.
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I've been using this Wi-Fi switch for over a year now - you can use your smart phone to set the time the switch turns on and off.
I charge at night when it's cooler and the electricity is cheaper ;-)
It also allows you to monitor how much electricity you're using - and you can use the mobile app from anywhere you are connected to the internet.
I have no brand preference (WEMO is actually quite difficult to set up), but this set up has worked for me.
I'll second the WeMo switches and point out that the ouimeaux library in GitHub can be used to measure and control the switch with python. I've been successfully charging at night, programmatically stopping charge when current decreases by 20% to end up with an indicated SoC of 96% in the morning, which means my Regen works when I go down the hill.
BTW, my 2018 S Zero charges on regen at 100% when going downhill, unlike my 2014 S Zero. I think that is because it stops charging at 116 volts, instead of 117 volts like the 2014 S did - when its original charger was working properly, of course.
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Hey everyone, 2017 Zero DS ZF13.0 with charge tank owner here and I thought I'd share my failed charger experience that I've tried to detail and examine at the best of my capabilities. I bought this bike on March 20th and rode it a few times here and there, putting maybe 100miles on it on side streets and a tiny bit of interstate, probably 5 charge cycles on it total, till April 23rd when I finally was in possession of the title and had gotten my licence plate for it.
So I went out to replace the licence plate light and install the plate. The battery was at 88% and I was planning a long ride for the "maiden legal voyage" I was going to take finally. So I plugged in the charger to top off the battery while I got to work. Everything seemed fine, dash showed charging with about an hour/half hour (I don't remember exactly) till fully charged. While I get to work on the licence plate I hear some clicking sounds (some may have been popping sounds) about a minute into charging that just don't sound right. I get back up (was sitting around back putting the plate on) and I smell burning electronics/plastic, see smoke pouring out of the back of the onboard charger where the wiring goes into it, the dash saying 89% charge 0:00 till full, and immediately scramble to rip the charging cord out of the bike.
At this point I was like do I laugh or do I cry at my luck right now, and grabbed my tools and went straight to work completely removing the onboard charger. After maybe two hours it's completely disconnected and removed from the bike, but now the dash is stuck saying the bike is charging when it isn't (which means no throttle/can't ride it). I do a BMS software reset which doesn't fix it, so I do a BMS hardware reset and it finally fixes that. Some blipping of the throttle shows the bike can still move under its own power and there's no error codes. I pull the MBB and BMS logs and there's zero errors at all for anything that happened. I take it for a ride up and down the street and nothing goes wrong, so I go to a nearby free EVSE charger and it charges my bike from 80% to 95% and shuts off. So no issues there with the charge tank (thank god) and I head back home.
I then take the onboard charger inside and go through the long process of removing its casing and de-potting the circuit board. After an hour or two I've got ~80% of the underside of the board de-potted and find an area on the board with a chip that clearly went up in smoke and even burned a hole straight through the board itself to the other side. There's zero chance of this being repairable and at this point I stop.
I research failed Zero chargers and find info stating this is part of the CAN-BUS interface in the charger and it is believed the bike itself erratically sends a power surge through the CAN-BUS that this chip just can't handle and it goes up in smoke, basically the bike destroyed a properly working charger. Looking at the pictures at https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Calex_Charger/Damage_Report the damage looks nearly identical, only mine less severe probably from me being nearby and immediately yanking the power cord out. Talking with u/BonesJackson on Reddit (someone involved in the creation of the DigoNow aftermarket onboard charger upgrade https://zeromanual.com/wiki/DigiNow/Super_Charger_V2.5 ) he states that bikes would end up frying their aftermarket chargers once they tried adding a CAN-BUS connection to the bike, thus their discontinuation of their aftermarket charger and the statement that a bike that blew one charger will blow more weather aftermarket or OEM if it connects to the CAN-BUS.
So at this point I'm at least lucky that I have a charge tank installed that is working properly, a luxury that many in this situation don't have. This leaves me with two options: I spend ~$900 and install a new onboard charger with no warranty that has a high probability of failing again due to my bike having some CAN-BUS issue, or I spend ~$200 and get a 120v/240v EVSE J1772 charge tank cord off Amazon with 5 star reviews and a two year warranty. I feel like the onboard charger being gone will affect the value of my bike if/when I sell it years from now, and now I have to carry a bulky EVSE charger with me on longer trips, but I went with the EVSE option and it will arrive tomorrow for me to use.
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Sorry to hear that. Really sorry, since I have the same bike.
I think you went the best route since you have the charge tank.
I had hoped Zero would make the SRF/S 3kw onboard charger retro fit-able to the Gen2 bikes but it doesn't look like they are planning that or if it will even fit and work with the older bikes.
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Could you explain what an EVSE charger is, and how you can use it to charge without the onboard charger?
Google didn't help me much:)
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Could you explain what an EVSE charger is, and how you can use it to charge without the onboard charger?
Google didn't help me much:)
It's just a charger cord for the charge tank. A J1772 plug. This is the one I ordered: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HH4LJD2/