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Messages - mKlRivPwner

Pages: [1] 2
1
Tech Help / Re: EV Motorcycle Help
« on: December 02, 2009, 04:40:30 AM »
Quote from: HotRodHoose on November 30, 2009, 06:59:39 AM
Ok guys I need some good help and fast, the bike is due next Friday and I am in a rut.  I bought the 72v Eteck RT kit from Elecectricmotorsport.com and I was wiring it up today and I ran into a problem.  I don't know where every wire goes, lol, but I have a generic 72v wiring diagram but its not very detailed.  I bought the altrax controller but it doesnt show me what wires go where, I also bought the magura twist grip and have no clue what the color of the wires mean and where to put them on the controller, also dont know how to hook up the cycle analyst from the same website.  I also don't know how to put my ignition key into the wiring to allow me to have a keyed cut off.  One more thing, the diagram I have shows a 72 to 12v dc converter from the shunt and the fuze, but then on the diagram he has labeled "from bikes 12v system" coming from the contactor.  Does anyone have any help to lend or a better wiring diagram???  Please help me, my graduation depends on it, lol.  Thanks a lot everyone in advance!

This is what gave everyone the impression that you didn't have a clue.  You didn't know where the wires on the throttle went, you didn't know how to hook up the analyst, you didn't know how to wire the ignition into the system, you didn't understand how to wire the motorcylcle's 12V system into the contactor...  And you very desperately begged everyone else to do the leg work and bring you the diagrams.

I have no problems with you asking for help.  I was under the impression that you were at a complete loss and you needed some major help to get humpty dumpty all back together.  I'm sorry if that wasn't the case.  Again, it's just the way you came off in your post.

2
Tech Help / Re: EV Motorcycle Help
« on: December 01, 2009, 08:13:29 PM »
Ok.  It's for your senior project.  And you chose an electric motorcycle.  Shouldn't you have an idea of what goes into an electric motorcycle?  And if not, shouldn't you be doing the leg work to learn it?

3
Tech Help / Re: transmissions
« on: November 02, 2009, 08:39:26 PM »
The short answer is buildablilty and price.

A planetary would cost quite a bit, and would not be something the average person could reasonably construct in their garage.  On top of this, there are electronic controls that I am trying to avoid.

When it comes down to it, if I were to add a true transmission, I would be compelled to add a CVT.  It's simplicity, compact size, and wide range of gear ratios would be best suited for EV's.

By adding a planetary gearset, I would be moving into a realm where the average owner/operator would no longer be able to maintain the machinery him/herself.  Instead, it would need to be serviced in a transmission shop if anything were to go wrong.  In this build, the average motorcycle rider would be able to open the gearbox and understand sprockets and chains.

An interesting idea.  But I'm going to leave that one to the manufacturers.

4
General Discussion / Fuses and Busses
« on: October 27, 2009, 08:33:29 PM »
Okay, so I know we have a lot of juice running through these machines.  So fuses are a must.  Even gas-powered cars on a measily 12V have fuses, relays, and (back in the day) fusible links *nostalia-ish*.

So certainly fuses are better than Fusible links (easier to replace), but I can't find anywhere that sells sockets for Maxi fuses.  ATCs have a max of 30 amp, and I'd rather not have to deal with glass fuses, or trying to build an enclosure for them.  Any suggestions?

By the way, I'm also going to be working on removing the fusible links in my car and splicing in some Maxi fuses, so if you know where I can find a 6-8 fuse bus for Maxi fuses, I will be forever indebted to you.

Should I just go junkyard diving and hope I get lucky?  Is there anywhere that sells them?

5
General Discussion / Re: EMF??
« on: October 20, 2009, 07:39:17 PM »
Real briefly (and this is my opinion from the research I've done) there is a hazard from high EMF's.  But the levels that would cause any sort of damage would either have to be continuous over a period of years and years, or so high you would only see them in a MAJOR industrial setting, or both (i.e. standing next to one of Hoover Dam's generators, eating, sleeping, living, for a period of 5 to ten years).

Lower levels of "high" EMF's can cause certain side effects in people who are sensitive to them.  But these are entirely resolved almost immediately after leaving the EMF field.  Side effects include:
Skin irritation
Nauseau
Paranoia
Disorientation
General "creepy" feelings

And again, these are almost immediately resolved by leaving that area.  These "high" EMF's can be found near areas where lots of computers are in use, areas where copper conduit is in large quantity over a large area, and sometimes in older homes where new wiring is often grounded to the old plumbing.  Basically, a large charge moving over a large area.

All in all, there is nothing to be scared about when working with EV's as far as EMF's are concerned.

6
Electric Motorcycle News / BMW C1-E Electric Enclosed Scooter
« on: October 14, 2009, 07:30:16 PM »
BMW reinvisions their 2000-'02 C1 enclosed scooter (gas) with a one-off Lithium-Ion powered concept, the C1-E.  The BMW features compnents similar to the Vectrix's VX-1, which reaches 50mph in 6.8 seconds, has a range of 35-55 miles and a top speed of 62mph.

Supposedly offering "carlike safety on a single track bike, ...the rider [does] not need a helmet to ride it safely."  Most nations would be hard pressed to make exceptions to their safety laws.  This is what led to dismal sales and the very abrupt end to the C1 in the first place.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=158967

Looks kinda silly if you ask me.  Way too much frontal area to make those specs, it seems.  And a windy day would be a B*.

7
Tech Help / Re: transmissions
« on: October 12, 2009, 07:09:23 PM »
Switching the clutches to Jackshaft B should resolve the RPM drop issues.  This and Clutch Slipage should alleviate the jossle between gears.  How much it will alleviate, I won't know until I build a prototype at least.  And unfortunately that could be a ways off.

As for space, By situating the "transmission" longitudnally with a drive shaft instead of an extra chain will help.  The transmission itself shouldn't take up any more space than the motor would already be taking up.  And by mounting the motor with the shaft facing forward will allow the "transmission" to mount alongside for the most part.

Weight and mechanical drag are the only major concerns.  And again, the true effect of this will only be known once a prototype is built and tested.  :(

I'll keep anyone interested updated with progress as I make it. 

8
Tech Help / Re: transmissions
« on: October 10, 2009, 07:18:22 PM »
Looks real neat, but it's still electronically controlled and monitored.  I know that it isn't much electricity, but the point is more "I'm not electrical engineer."  I'm not going to wire up a transmission and all the controllers.  And modifying a salvaged transy would be overweight and require a fluid resevoir, pumps and pulleys...  I know adding a transmission will already produce internal friction which will create drag on the motor and create inefficiency.  Adding a pump and pulley system will increase that.  And adding electronics to monitor and control the whole thing will just decrease it that much more.  So this whole deal plus me not wanting another "advanced electric hinderence" to figure out and try to work out led me to attempting to build a purely mechanical, self-contained transmission.  Automatic just made sense, because they can be self-contained and self-monitoring if they are done right.

So a CVT, or a Zeroshift, or a salvaged and modified manual might make sense to many of you, but I find the simplicity and contained nature of the mechanical automatic transmission I described below to be a great fit for the concept of an electric motorcycle.

9
Tech Help / Re: transmissions
« on: October 10, 2009, 01:38:09 AM »
okay.  I know I'm probably beating this to death.  But thanks to a wonderful gift called "ADD" I have to keep thinking about it until I fix all the bugs out of it.  Here we go!

Set up:
Motor     Jackshaft 1     Jackshaft 2      rear end
12           24                   NA (direct drive shaft)
              9 (1a)              27 (1b)
            Clutch 1
             12 (2a)             24 (2b)
            Clutch 2
             16 (3a)             20 (3b)

Have Clutch one spring at 1000 RPMs.  Have Clutch 2 spring at 1350 RPMs.  All gears on Jackshaft 2 will be fixed.  Hears 1a and 2a will be on one-way bearings.

This way when torque is shifted from 1st to 2nd, clutch 1 will grab gear 2a, but gear 1a will be 'pushed' by 1b.  Gear 3a will still be free spinning thanks to the clutch between 2a and 3a.

Likewise, when torque is shifted from 2nd to 3rd, clutch 1 and 2 will be engaged so 3a will drive jackshaft 2 and the drive shaft.  Gears 1a and 2a will be freespinning thanks to the 'push' they will receive from their counerparts on Jackshaft 2.

Completely automatic and perfectly smooth transition.

Of course now I want to go build one  :-(

10
Tech Help / Re: transmissions
« on: October 08, 2009, 10:31:23 PM »
Would it work if the gears were all on one-way bearings similar to how a bicycle's rear wheel connects to the gears?

In first, all three gears on jackshaft one will spin at the same rate.  On the seoncd jackshaft, the largest gear (gear 1) is being driven, but the others, trying to spin faster, aren't 'caught' and so can spin freely.

In second, gear 2 on jackshaft 1 grabs the torque and so gear 2 on jackshaft 2 is driven.  So gear 1 on jackshaft 2 is now 'pushed' by gear 2, so gear 1 on jackshaft 1 is free spinning.  Gear 3 on jackshaft 1 is 'pushed' by gear 2, so gear 3 on jackshaft 2 is also freespining.

When the torque is shifted to third gear, on jackshaft 1, gears 1 and 2 will be free spinning (by virtue of the speeds of their counterparts), and all three gears on jackshaft 2 will be 'pushed' at the same rate.

Here's an example:

Motor     Jackshaft 1     Jackshaft 2      rear end
12           24                   NA (direct drive shaft)
              9 (1a)              27 (1b)
             12 (2a)             24 (2b)
             16 (3a)             20 (3b)

Gives three gear ratios of 6:1, 4:1 and 2.5:1

        | Motor speed
Gear  |1st @ 2000 |2nd @ 2700|3rd @ 3600
1a/1b| 1000/333 | 2025/675  | 4320/1440
2a/2b| 1000/500   | 1350/675 | 2880/1440
3a/3b| 1000/800   | 1350/1080 | 1800/1440

As you can see, each gear will be travelling at least as fast as the driven gear.  And so there will always be one set that is driven, while the higher gears are freespinning, and lower gears will be 'pushed' with their counterparts freespinning.
In fact, gears 1b and 3a do not need one-way bearings.

So as long as the torque does in fact transfer, the shifting will occur without lock-up.

11
Tech Help / Re: transmissions
« on: October 08, 2009, 01:28:53 AM »
Thanks again!  Obviously you would recommend a shield over the torque converter.  What did you construct yours out of?

12
Tech Help / Re: transmissions
« on: October 02, 2009, 06:56:58 PM »
Do the gears have to be of the same sizes (in opposite orders), or can I run the same set up with different gears?

12    12     24     drive-shaft
       15     20
       18     15

for gearing of 6:1, 4:1  and 2.5:1


13
Electric Motorcycle News / Re: Ion Sportbike
« on: October 01, 2009, 07:07:22 PM »
Wish there was more info on the conversion and less on the body work.  (There's another vid on a different site).  What equipment does he have under the fairings?  What electrical work had to go into the LED's?

Very cool.  And very good looking.  Maybe a little too "spacey" for my taste.

So the half-naked android babe...  That's going to be packaged with the bike, right?  Haha.  College kids in basements...

14
General Discussion / Re: What about Motors/controllers/sprockets
« on: September 29, 2009, 09:17:38 PM »
Welcome!
I'm new to this world too, so I'll dispense what I learned over my first few weeks to you.

1)  Your battery and range estimates are grossly OVER-estimated.  If you are putting together a system you think will get you 50 miles, count on only getting 35 on the road.  Look at some of the bikes that others are doing.  Find someone with the range you want, and ask them what batery set-up they use and what kW-Hr they have (if they can tell you).
2)  Your cost is an UNDER-estimate.  Sure you priced the motor, controller, charger, even the batteries and sprocket.  But did you count on screwing something up?  Did you count on the fabrication materials for the mounts and brackets?
3)  Having said all that.  You can do it.  Easier than you think having heard/read all that.

There's a couple of car guy idioms you probably need to be overtly aware of:

Guy one: "I just finished a weekend project."
Guy two: "How did it go?"
Guy one: "Well, I spent twice what I thought and it's took 3 months."
Guy two: "Not bad at all."

The Mechanics Triangle:
   Reliable
     /   \
    /     \
Fast---Cheap

Reliable + Fast == Not Cheap
Fast + Cheap == Not Reliable
Cheap + Reliable == Not Fast

This last one is the most important:
Make a plan and stick to it. (I know it's cheesy)
Many street rodders don't have a plan.  So when a fad comes around, they get sucked in and try to do it on their own car.  Or they change their plan simply because they want to do SOMETHING and can't do what they want at that moment.  By the time they finish, not only do they have different elements that don't mesh (a retro deck lid and an industrial hood), but a new fad has started.  Now they tear out half the work they just finished so they can try to get the new design into their car.  And before long, the guy across the street has a clean and running rod, while you're stuck with a bondo covered mess and you haven't even taken it around the block in two years.

I hope I didn't put a big downer on your plans.  That's not my goal.  I'm just trying to say: Don't get discouraged if it doesn't happen right away.  It will.  And if you don't hurry off and "settle" on a lesser product because you can't find what you want, you'll be very pleased with the result.

15
Home Brew / Re: What's the law?
« on: September 28, 2009, 07:15:49 PM »
If you want to drive it on the freeway, it still needs to be registered.  I know some places, like MD, you don't have to register vehicles if they can't reach certain speeds.  This will allow things like Mopeds and Bicycles (in most state laws bikes are considered motored vehicles) to not require registration.

Although I'm not 100% on if this is based on speed, or a combination of speed and power source (i.e. self-propelled ==> register, pedling ==> no register) so maybe someone who's been in here longer can answer too.

Worst case scenerio, however, you get your vehicle registered as a "Hobby" or "Special Interest" or whatever they decide to call it.  They'll test your EV for road-worthiness and give you a tag.  But you'll never have to get it inspected because there's no standard to test it against.  Same idea as a "Street Rod" tag, except those have to have DOT approved engines, a VIN, and are only allowed to run to and from shows and on weekends.

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