Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Doug S]

t's not just about sales numbers, either. The Tesla Roadster never sold enough to make Tesla profitable, but it made one hell of a splash. Even the Model S was just a springboard, attracting attention and changing opinions about what an EV could be. It's over a decade later and Tesla is only now getting close to being profitable.

I still, all the time, get the head-spinning "Is that an electric motorcycle??" question. Even motorcyclists don't realize it's happening, let alone what it could be. Those that realize electric motorcycles are a real thing are mostly only aware of the Harley LiveWire. I think Zero needs to make an attention-grabbing motorcycle, not just to sell it for itself, but also just to show people what electric motorcycles can be. People might actually aspire to a bike like that, and take a look at the other models. That's what premium models are for, to bring traffic into the dealership.

[Richard230]

Yesterday at the NEV event I only had three people stop by and ask me about my Zero. None of them had heard of Zero, where they are located, or knew that electric motorcycles even existed.  Sounds to me like Zero needs to step up their advertising campaig, or at least get some news into the general public's eye somehow.

[Shadow]

Yesterday at the NEV event I only had three people stop by and ask me about my Zero. None of them had heard of Zero, where they are located, or knew that electric motorcycles even existed.  Sounds to me like Zero needs to step up their advertising campaig, or at least get some news into the general public's eye somehow.

I heard from a few people at our Reno event who'd sold their (older) Zero bikes how difficult it was to find their buyer(s). They wanted to know if the newer model years are fully maintainable by owners, how had things changed since they sold their bikes and Zero Motorcycles doubled down on the dealership model. Basically if there's no dealership then that geographic region is not likely to be interested in the bike anyways. Even the really motivated adventure family (from an encounter earlier this summer I'm recalling now) that had eight or nine Zero bikes said it was a pain in the ass to trailer them all 150mi+ to a dealership and they were just glad to only have to do it once or twice a year; When they had a problem with a Zero or the older model would not be worthwhile to repair, it got relegated to the garage and they bought a new one.

These aren't bikes meant to be ridden more than a few thousand miles under warranty or outside of a town that has a dealership. I've tried a reasonable effort to purchase dealer tools to maintain my own, and was told that it is too risky (in the liability sense). Together with the awful state of charging electronics on OEM Zero bikes as a market, this message to me is that the market for resale is limited exclusively to towns where a dealership exists or to persons who are willing to trailer their bikes 150mi+ for maintenance.

They are toys.

Yet, people who have purchased a Zero with the expectation of it being merely an expensive toy are blown away by how quickly it becomes a favorite vehicle to ride. Apparently some of these people enjoy their bikes for many hundreds (and possibly even a few thousand) of miles never touching a bolt or having a problem of any kind - save for trying to resale the bike which is still to an artificially limited market I describe.

[E-Luke]

I've ridden my 2016 DSR for 8500 miles, hard, and haven't had to touch a bolt... Save for the two belts I snapped jumping gutters and speed humps 

[Graybeard]

So.. nothing yet on the 2019 models. No leaks, nothing?
I have my finger ready on the buy-button as soon as they are available, and at least some of the "wants" here have been met. I am om board with (adaptive) traction control (yes, even as a very experienced rider. Sudden and unexpected loss of grip happens you know). Heated grips stock on EU-models at least should be a no-brainer on a bike with so much power on hand (pun intended). Both features are selling points if Zero wants to move bikes in the colder regions.

[domingo3]

So.. nothing yet on the 2019 models. No leaks, nothing?
I have my finger ready on the buy-button as soon as they are available, and at least some of the "wants" here have been met. I am om board with (adaptive) traction control (yes, even as a very experienced rider. Sudden and unexpected loss of grip happens you know). Heated grips stock on EU-models at least should be a no-brainer on a bike with so much power on hand (pun intended). Both features are selling points if Zero wants to move bikes in the colder regions.

Zero has been pretty good at keeping everything close-hold, so that it really is a reveal when the models are announced.  From the past few years, I don't recall anything being leaked or even hinted at aside from the somewhat predictable moderate increase in range/capacity.

[NEW2elec]

Late October or November before anything official.  January or so before they hit the showrooms.  Just for fun I'm betting FX/S "R".

[Richard230]

Late October or November before anything official.  January or so before they hit the showrooms.  Just for fun I'm betting FX/S "R".

I used to think the same thing - until I bought my 2018 Zero S with PT in November 2017. 

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Zero would likely fire anybody who leaks details ahead of their official unveiling or announcements.

I have a very strong impression that such firings have happened before. If someone gives you privileged information, and you are excited to tell someone, consider whether they can be identified from your report and fired for it.

We can disagree about how a manufacturer does business, but let’s at least agree to not make enemies so that the ecosystem relationships keep improving.

[MostlyBonkers]

I think we'd all be happy if Zero froze all bike developments for a year and just put their house in order. Sort out support, quality control, distribution and do some proper marketing.  Give the engineers a year to do something worthwhile, like active thermal management for the battery pack along with DC rapid charging.  I get the feeling they're all wrapped up in a cycle of incremental improvements.  They need to step out of that rut and do something really worthwhile that will make their bikes compelling.

[Hansi]

...DC rapid charging.

I've probably said it before:
This is the key to Zero making it or not in my opinion. If Zero don't do it soon I'm convinced one or more of the bigger brands will, and that would be the beginning of the end for Zero, in my opinion.

[caza]

I really think we're years of from DC rapid charging being a "must have"

There aren't enough DC charging stations for it to make a big difference. I live in the SF Bay Area and if my bike had DC charging it would literally never be used because there aren't any around me or the areas I ride to. If that's my experience here, in one of the most heavy adoption areas for EV's, I imagine DC chargers are even less common in the rest of the country.

I really think the charge tank being the standard charger is a much more important step for 2019. Every EV should be able to use a level 2 charger, and 3k extra is too much for a feature that should be standard.

[MostlyBonkers]

I have to disagree with you Caza. I was so close to buying a brand new DSR with a charge tank this summer and the main thing that stopped me was charge times.  If I'm riding a bike for leisure, I want to go a decent distance and sometimes ride with others. Those others might tolerate the odd stop for twenty minutes at a rapid DC charger, but they sure as shit won't hang around for up to two hours.  I wouldn't want to myself, even when trying to talk myself into long lunches etc.  Nope, I just want to get back on the road quickly. I want the same range my bladder can cope with at decent speeds and charging that takes as long as a pee stop.

Yes, there are the likes of Benswing out there and occasionally I'd be happy to do that kind of touring. After all, I absolutely love riding my Zero and that's after 25,000 miles and well over two years.  Most of my bikes get swapped out much quicker than that.

Electric bikes need rapid charging like ducks need water. They also need active cooling for the battery to support rapid charging. I can state that with some authority.  Not necessary for a commuter bike, but absolutely necessary for anything beyond that.  In fact I'm so convinced of it that I think that it will be the tipping point for electric motorcycles. Bring that to market at a reasonable price and sales will rocket.  Until then, I'm afraid it's a very niche market of enthusiasts and wealthy commuters.

[Doug S]

There aren't enough DC charging stations for it to make a big difference. I live in the SF Bay Area....

Let's check. I'm attaching two screenshots from plugshare, one in the San Diego area where I live, and a larger shot showing a good part of California. I set it to show CCS stations only. Unfortunately plugshare doesn't differentiate between CCS stations, so it's not guaranteed that a particular station has the combo plug for DC charging, so you'd have to call ahead. But I'm sure the newer ones mostly use the combo plug, and the percentage is only going to go up.

I'd have no problem getting from here (San Diego) up to Palm Springs, or even up to the bay area on either the 101 or the 99 (not sure why them instead of the 5, but who cares?), depending on whether I prefer to go through Santa Barbara or Bakersfield. Can't quite get to Arizona or Vegas yet, but it shouldn't be too long now.

I'd have conceded that argument, even made it myself, when I bought my bike in 2014. I think it's a much harder argument to make today, and it will be impossible in another 4 years.

[MostlyBonkers]

+1 Doug and I forgot to mention there are plenty of DC rapid chargers in the UK now. We'd always like a lot more to reduce the risk of bad luck, queuing and so on, but they're coming.