ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: protomech on June 21, 2013, 04:22:51 AM
-
Question arose on the brammoforum from our discussions of the Empulse vs Zero S (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2029.msg16358#new) with respect to cost, range, and charging speeds. There's a tradeoff in weight, cost, packaging budgets for batteries (range) vs AC chargers (charging speed); I'm curious what different people prefer. (Note: please don't vote here if you have previously voted on the brammoforum)
Important: Please tick a total of 3 boxes when you vote, one box per class, for your preferred combination of range and charging speed in each class of bike. I don't mean to ask which bike or price point you would buy today; assume that you were in the market for each of the three classes of bikes.
3 different classes of bikes.
"standard" is much like the current Brammo Empulse and Zero S. Small chargers. Assume weight around 400 lbs.
"touring" is a more touring-focused bike, still unfaired. Larger chargers on some bikes. Assume weight around 500 lbs. Think Brutus.
"vetter special" is a slipstreamed bike, like Terry Hershner's. Assume weight around 550 pounds.
Assume all miles are combined highway/city miles, unless indicated otherwise.
Edit: botched the poll the first time by setting it to 1 option max. Please re-vote, ticking 3 options.
-
Fwiw.. I have a hard time comprehending the big difference in charging speed vs range.
To quote a currently running TV ad... that's like going to a "Bed or Breakfast". "And" is better!
Is max range AND J1772 for 3KW charging really not an option?
Big AC chargers (like the air-cooled charger in the Empulse) take up some amount of weight, packaging volume, and cost. There's a tradeoff between charging power and battery capacity. I've attempted to capture that in the poll above, though the numbers are somewhat hypothetical and may not be quite right.
The $22k "vetter special" is the maximum range 3 kW J1772 bike. You could also start with the middle "touring" bike, and instead of a fairing (which weighs about 50 pounds and costs about $2000) add another battery module (50 pounds, $2000). That would bump range up to about 140 miles (in mixed riding), and leave charge speed unchanged at 32 miles/hour. The fairing effectively gives you more range than adding additional battery capacity.
-
I'm going to let the poll run through the weekend then discuss.
Thank you all for providing input : )
-
Dont believe in J17.... we have 240V so I vote for 110V and would replace charger or accept that I still charge at suboptimal with the US setup.
-
It's easy enough to adapt the J1772 inlet for whatever your 240V mains physical connectors look like. Most of the EV chargers accept 85-265V AC 50-60 Hz; if you wanted to plug it into a 50A NEMA outlet you would just need a small adapter.
-
I would prefer quick charge with CHAdeMO on a standard bike like 2013 S because ir does not add extra weight with addition batteries. Build out of CHAdeMO or simular network is that a problem? Maybe but in Denmark they have 50+ CHAdeMO station and in Estonia 150+!
-
Quick DC charging is the way of the future for sure.
In the US though we're looking at a pretty nasty fight between CHAdeMO and SAE J1772 DC. I fully expect that fight will set quick DC charging infrastructure in the US back 2 years.
-
Looking at the results of the poll so far, how would you like to be a product planner attempting to decide which method of charging to use on your EV a couple of years from now? ;)
-
Quick DC charging is the way of the future for sure.
In the US though we're looking at a pretty nasty fight between CHAdeMO and SAE J1772 DC. I fully expect that fight will set quick DC charging infrastructure in the US back 2 years.
BMW, Daimler AG, Ford, and Volkswagen have all agreed to use the SAE. That's a lot of backing..... it's going to be interesting.
One thing that the Chademo has for it, is that both Toyota and Nissan have adopted it as a standard and have shipped a lot of their cars here and rolled out a lot of Chademo DCFC stations.
Still though, nationwide, there aren't that many Chademo DCFC stations.
-
SAE J1772 DC is being backed by BMW, GM, Ford, VW, Porsche, Audi, and Daimler. Basically all of the major traditional automakers save the Japanese manufacturers and Chrysler.
CHAdeMO's principal vehicle backers are Mitsubishi and Nissan. Subaru and Toyota are signed on as members, but neither has produced production vehicles that use the CHAdeMO charge system. Tesla (soon) and Zero both support CHAdeMO, but I don't think either has a principal interest in CHAdeMO.
-
Do you have plenty SAE available at public charging stations in USA? The CHAdeMO installation in Estonia has been backed by large public fundings. Without that would never happen.