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[jotjotde]

Probably this will be an issue where opinions clash but maybe we can discuss this nevertheless and guys like me without much experience can learn something from that.

My question is, how to corner best with an EV bike with regen activated. In my view that should be (at least somewhat) different from handling an ICE bike.

In riding school I learned the basic (ICE) way is finish all speed reduction before entrance of the turn. While cornering hold the speed or slightly increase throttle and when you can see the end of the turn (if it was a blind turn) you can accelerate again.

As far as I understood, the more advanced technique is trail braking when you enter the turn with higher speed but with engaged front brake which is then released gradually. But that is not the same as entering the turn with working regen - that would be like trail braking with the rear brake.

I would like to hear how you people using the brake(s) and regen during cornering.

[TheRan]

Honestly I don't find it much different to cornering on a gas bike, at least I don't consciously do anything differently. Regen is analogous to engine braking and I don't go through a corner on a gas bike with the clutch pulled in. However, when I used to ride with no regen at all, that was when it took some adjusting and part of the reason I turned it back on and no longer use Zero's sport mode.

[Richard230]

I have been riding motorcycles for 62 years and I can't say that I have noticed a difference in cornering between ICE and EV. I adjust my regen to off when the throttle is closed so the bike just coasts along. I don't notice any issues doing that. However, you can usually adjust your regen so that it has similar drag to an ICE bike in gear if that makes you feel more comfortable.

[SwampNut]

My question is, how to corner best with an EV bike with regen activated. In my view that should be (at least somewhat) different from handling an ICE bike.

Regen is the same as having an ICE bike in a low gear, with a lot of compression.  I haven't tested it carefully back to back, but I think my CBR1100XX at 10k RPM would decelerate about as much as an EV with regen.  However there's one noticeable difference in cornering, which is that there's no reciprocating mass to behave a little like a gyro.  I find that turn-in is easier and more similar left-to-right than with ICE.

As far as I understood, the more advanced technique is trail braking when you enter the turn with higher speed but with engaged front brake which is then released gradually. But that is not the same as entering the turn with working regen - that would be like trail braking with the rear brake.

I trail brake 100% of the time, on any bike.  If it's ICE, I use engine braking, partly because you need to downshift to get set up for your corner exit.  And you sure as hell don't shift at the apex!  If anything, I've started to experiment with much less regen since I don't need to shift, and I could just coast into the turn.  This may be an advantage; to actually have less engine braking.

[flynnstig82r]

When I had my SS9, I rode with regen braking on the highest setting. When I wanted to continue to slow as I initiated a turn, I just let the regen do that for me. When I didn't, I maintained slight positive throttle, just enough to prevent regen. You could also choose to maintain stronger positive throttle while dragging the rear brake, or to turn regen low or off and use the front brake for trail braking. EV's provide more options than ICE bikes for how to corner, IMO.

[Richard230]

My Zero's maximum regen feels about the same as an ICE bike in 3rd or 4th gear with the throttle closed.

[Stonewolf]

I dunno I basicly just ride my Ribelle entirely on feel with max regen, I'm sure I'm using some technique I've picked up over the years subconsciously ...

[Specter]

I use it to slow into the corner and just feather it as I need to keep the speed I want thru the turn.  I don't see where it is really hurting anything.  Since you are slowing using it, you ARE loading your tires up so that's a plus.  I have come into a turn with regen on hard, maybe letting up a bit as I get into the turn and see I need some throttle to make it thru with no problems, I have come into a turn hot and said oh shit and rode thru the turn with the brakes on as well, no issues, I have come thru a turn with very light regen, just waiting to see the end so I can hit the throttle again, no issues.

One way to look at it is, it's an electronic way to apply the rear brakes really.  Because with a stiff regen you ARE stopping pretty good and are pushing forward with the weight, just like if you really let on with the rear manual brake, because that is where the breaking energy is being applied to is the rear wheel.

Aaron

[jotjotde]

Thank you people for sharing your insights!

If I summarize:
Basically there is no major difference in cornering with a E or ICE bike.
With regen on low setting there is probably no difference to the motor drag of an ICE bike.
If regen is set high, then it's like rear braking.


On an ICE bike you try to refrain from hitting the rear brake when you are in a turn because it's quite easy to overdo it and the rear tire looses traction.
So on regen high setting in a turn one should not suddenly close the throttle. Or is the traction control helping here and functioning like an ABS?
 

[SwampNut]

Any modern electric bike should include regen ABS (reverse traction control); mine does.  I also have two regen settings; just closing throttle, and a separate setting for brakes applied.  In some modes, the brake applied setting is LOWER than without, some it's higher.  If it's not clear why that logic is the way it is, we can jump in deeper.

I don't agree that you simply don't use the brake in a turn.  Using it may be advanced learning, but it's a good tool in some cases.  You can use it to fine tune your position or your speed.

It would be interesting to compare the braking power of full regen to the braking power of downshifting to 10k RPM on a liter bike.  I feel like neither should be hugely different.

EDITED:  Regen braking control is described in my manual/specs as part of the ABS system.  Though it's also reverse traction control.  I don't know if there are bikes with ABS-regen and not TC.

[Richard230]

There is no TC on my 2018 Zero, but it could use one for when you are accelerating on a slippery road. I doubt its maximum regen setting would cause the rear tire to slip out on any surface that is not covered with ice.   

[SwampNut]

I edited my post because I recall reading that the regen control is part of ABS, not traction control.  So I'm not sure how they play together.  On my bike, rain mode disables regen, which makes some sense.

[Specter]

ABS if it is on and working properly will NOT / should NOT let your rear wheel lock up, either from regen or braking.  In fact if it IS working properly, will use both of them and adjust accordingly to keep your traction proper and not lose it.  A hard regen will not lock up your wheel or let you get into a skid unless you really hit something drastic on the road,  think dry pavement and maybe hitting an ice patch.  if it does, the lockup will only be momentarily and it will almost immediately re adjust itself to let the wheel spin again.  You may get a bit of a slip but unless you are doing an evil kaneval into the corner, should not be enough to cause a slide to lose control.

My regen I can feel it adjust itself on a long slowdown as pavement conditions change.  On a nice smooth road if I let it go all the way it will brake hard enough that I am holding onto the handle bars about enough to try to keep from being pushed out of my seat from the slow down, BUT the wheels are still spinning.  Let's say I am losing 10 MPH / Per sec  10 MPH/Sec,  if it's a coarser pavement, ie a shitty road and traction is not that good, bike behaves a bit squirrely. letting it go full regen  stop, I am NOT being pulled ot of my seat, it's more like I have it set to medium regen and my stopping may only be like 6 or 7 MPH / Sec.

Another thing I have noticed, it's going to error on the side of caution, ie not apply as hard, there have been times where I am like, hmm that was a shitty regen, why??? then noticing the road sucks.  and once it does go down to a lesser regen, it generally will not just bolt back up to the full regen on that stop, ie it keeps it smooth and you don't get jerky stopping as regen modulates, once it lessens it's force, it tends to stay there as it's max until the stop is complete.

Regen / Manual Brake / ABS all work hand in hand.  I think the typical sensing is 100 to 1000 times persecond to control it.

Aaron

[Specter]

jojo, let me add one more thing.
In a turn, you really should NEVER suddenly close the throttle no matter what the condition / driver   Abs or not.

There is nothing wrong with giving throttle in a turn, I do it all the time, you want to maintain your traction thru the turn and keep the tire(s) loaded so yes, throttle and braking is the way to do that.  As the turn ends and you are getting to where you want to be pointed at, the yes you are closing the throttle to get back going again.  The key is do so moderately or gently,    sudden and throttle are almost always a bad pair.

Aaron

[Apollo]

My question is, how to corner best with an EV bike with regen activated. In my view that should be (at least somewhat) different from handling an ICE bike.

In riding school I learned the basic (ICE) way is finish all speed reduction before entrance of the turn. While cornering hold the speed or slightly increase throttle and when you can see the end of the turn (if it was a blind turn) you can accelerate again.

As far as I understood, the more advanced technique is trail braking when you enter the turn with higher speed but with engaged front brake which is then released gradually. But that is not the same as entering the turn with working regen - that would be like trail braking with the rear brake.

I would like to hear how you people using the brake(s) and regen during cornering.

  "In riding school "...  At the track, MSF?
   My opinion is there is no best way to enter a corner on an EBike or ICEbike.
   You ever ridden behind a half-fast 600 rider through a canyon?  They rev the things to the moon then double downshift as they enter a corner.  Tons of rear tail brake going on.  Faster guys tend to try and stay close to the same gear and gently use the rear to trail brake.  The primary purpose is to get the back of the bike to settle or sit down before applying the front.
   You use a bunch of brakes on the front to reduce your speed.  Upon getting close to the turn, you release some brake pressure but try to keep the forks halfway down the stroke. During the turn, the forks will want to collapse/sink. This is when you release the front brake.  You use the front brake in a trailing fashion to set up the dive the forks will take.  As you exit a turn, you will want to give it more throttle. That will cause the forks to extend changing the fork angle and lightening the tire patch.  If you give it a bit of front brake drag again, the tire will fight to stick causing the forks to stay down and increasing the tire patch. Not a big front brake drag, just a bit. Once the bike is straight, no brakes and all throttle.  If it's choppy exiting the corner, again, drag the rear brake to make the bike sit and help absorb chop.
  Regardless of an ICE or EV, they both will have engine or regen drag.  Big race bikes have adjustable slipper clutches or use the clutch to combat engine drag. 
  Now no two corners are the same, with racetracks being designed to confuse the driver and make it difficult to go fast.  Public roads have a constant radius and constant width.
  If you really want to learn how to go fast around corners, get a dirt bike.  They are the same as a road bike but they have about 1/10th the traction.  They slide starting, stopping, and turning.  You really learn about how to finesse them around as you fight for every bit of traction.  Most street bikes today are made so well you can drive very poorly and still go pretty fast.

   You can think of it this way on an EV bike with high regen.
If you are completing the straight and roll all the way off the throttle, heavy regen will start pulling the rear and front of the bike down.  If you start applying throttle, the front starts to come up, then starts to dig in as you make the turn. This is very bad.  We don't want the front going up and down in a turn.
    Finish you straight by stopping the throttle and giving full regen. This will pull down the rear and a bit of the front.  Keep some front brake on to keep the front down halfway in the stroke. As you apply the throttle, you will be turning off the regen (raising the front) and applying the throttle (Raising the front).  Not good.
As you reduce regen, you need more back brakes to keep the bike squatting.  Not a lot, just to keep it under control.  As you apply throttle, apply a bit more front brake to keep the forks in midstroke.  As the front tire takes a bite, reduce the front brake.  There is a lot of subtleness to doing this and lots of practice at 2/3 top speed to make this process a habit so all steps will be automatic.
  When first starting, review each step, focusing on it, and see how it helps the bike turn and stay glued to the ground.
   And have fun.