ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: GeneralSP on November 21, 2018, 01:36:49 AM
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Hi folks, I have 2018 SR with charge tank, can I connect (Pass a cable to the IEC connector to the onboard charger) directly from the J1772? I mean, when I will charge my bike, I will plug the J1772, on the same time the 240v give a power to the on board charger. Can I make that?
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The onboard charger is engaged with/by the Charge Tank.
The plug is not required to do this; the cabling is internal.
FWIW a separate J1772 adapter for the onboard charger does exist: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_5&products_id=122
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The onboard J1772 adapter from zero is not my goal!
Maybe I bad explain my question. Can supplied the Onboard charger current from chargetank? If yes, I will plug a cable from chargetank to IEC connector.
With this, When I will plug the J1772 in the chargetank, I will supplyed current to the both charger in the same time.
Is it possible? you understand?
The onboard charger is engaged with/by the Charge Tank.
The plug is not required to do this; the cabling is internal.
FWIW a separate J1772 adapter for the onboard charger does exist: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_5&products_id=122
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If I understand what you're saying, you will not change the rate of charge. All you are doing is taking the provided charge and splitting it into two outputs, each one less than the whole. Physics: Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form.
If you want to reduce the charge time, you would have to take the input from one charge station and put it into the Charge tank, and then plug the inboard charger into a separate Level 1 source (or use the J1772 adapter plugged into a second charge station).
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If the charge station can charge up to 30 amp or more, in this condition, it can provide both charger? Chargetank=6 kw + Onboard charger= 1kw. What do yo think?
quote author=JaimeC link=topic=8473.msg71796#msg71796 date=1542813496]
If I understand what you're saying, you will not change the rate of charge. All you are doing is taking the provided charge and splitting it into two outputs, each one less than the whole. Physics: Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form.
If you want to reduce the charge time, you would have to take the input from one charge station and put it into the Charge tank, and then plug the inboard charger into a separate Level 1 source (or use the J1772 adapter plugged into a second charge station).
[/quote]
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I should not have mentioned Zero's onboard charger adapter - it is irrelevant.
Your onboard charger is already engaged while you use your Charge Tank. You can verify this by physically touching the onboard charger in the belly pan under the bike while the Charge Tank is engaged - if it is warm, it's engaged.
The Charge Tank's rated capacity already includes the onboard charger's capacity.
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Wait so the 2018+ Charge Tank is only 4.7kW?
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I should not have mentioned Zero's onboard charger adapter - it is irrelevant.
Your onboard charger is already engaged while you use your Charge Tank. You can verify this by physically touching the onboard charger in the belly pan under the bike while the Charge Tank is engaged - if it is warm, it's engaged.
The Charge Tank's rated capacity already includes the onboard charger's capacity.
So, in other words, the using the Charge Tank is already doing what the OP wanted?
It is confusing because in the owner's manual for the 2018 S model, on page 5.9, it says:
"Note: For motorcycles with a ZF7.2 battery pack, using the On-Board charger in conjunction with the Charge Tank is not supported because it will exceed the max charging rate for the battery pack. A fault code will display on the dash and the motorcycle will not charge at the expected rate."
This implies that if you have the ZF13, or ZF14.4 battery pack you CAN use both the Charge Tank AND the On-Board charger...
Link to the Owner's Manual:
http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2018/2018-Zero-Owners-Manual-S-SR-DS-DSR.pdf
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This implies that if you have the ZF13, or ZF14.4 battery pack you CAN use both the Charge Tank AND the On-Board charger...
Or could it mean it is already used on the ZF13 and 14.4 as part of the charge tank, but NOT when the charge tank is used with the smaller battery?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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When I use the charge tank, the Onboard charger is not used. The chargetank use (6 kw power). When I plug IEC onboard charger with it, I have 1kw additional. Thats mean 7 kw total. That why I ask if is possible to supply both with the J1772. If yes, it will not be necessary to find 120v plug to connect IEC (Onboard charger).
The 2018 SR have 14.4 battery pack.
I should not have mentioned Zero's onboard charger adapter - it is irrelevant.
Your onboard charger is already engaged while you use your Charge Tank. You can verify this by physically touching the onboard charger in the belly pan under the bike while the Charge Tank is engaged - if it is warm, it's engaged.
The Charge Tank's rated capacity already includes the onboard charger's capacity.
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I would've SWORN I saw a Zero page that actually said words to the effect that the new charge tank, COMBINED with the bullt-in charger, would reduce the overall charge time but I can't find that page (if it ever existed) anymore.
But back to the OP's question: IF, as you stated, the charge station is putting out more capacity than the charge tank draws, and IF the charge tank can be used with the built-in charger, then YES, you should be able to build some kind of an adapter to divert the unused power from the J1772 connector to the built in charge port. I don't believe I've ever seen such an adapter so you'd have to take that upon yourself to build. And those are two BIG "ifs" I listed up above too.
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ok thanks, about manual, check 5.9 page or section. 8)
I would've SWORN I saw a Zero page that actually said words to the effect that the new charge tank, COMBINED with the bullt-in charger, would reduce the overall charge time but I can't find that page (if it ever existed) anymore.
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ok thanks, about manual, check 5.9 page or section. 8)
I actually quoted that page above, and it remains "unclear."
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Okay, I definitely interpreted the manual wrong, then, partly by confusing earlier Charge Tank behavior that was rated for 2.5kW.
I’ve never used a Charge Tank and have to work from owners’ reports.
The fact is, Zero doesn’t support a ready splice into the J1772 inlet. And I wouldn’t recommend it without professional training in power cable crimping.
And definitely take Zero’s recommendations seriously. They will charge you for repairs if you exceed their design specifications or modify equipment and it results in damage.
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Honestly, I wish someone with professional training would look at the equipment onsite and methodically to sort through all this incomplete information.
Zero’s documentation and especially the onboard and mobile app software are not adequate for systems understanding, and I’m tired of trying to sort through confusing forum posts to update the wiki.
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I Don't think I will make some modification now, my bike is warranty yet.
Have you a good place where I can find J1772 connector (socket) male and female?
I can build adapter to insall between the chargetank connector and charge station (J1772)
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Nothing in this thread seems like reliable reporting.
Do not build a DIY connector unless you receive training from a qualified electrician and have the crimps examined by an EV expert.
The only valuable outcome from this thread would be if someone verified by direct observation whether the new 6kW Charge Tank energizes the onboard charger. No parsing of the OEM documentation counts. You must check the onboard charger for warmth at its casing surface, and no the belly pan does not count, either. A log report with timestamps corresponding to a manually initiated J1772 charging session would also be helpful, but primarily I want to know whether the charger produces heat.
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Don't worry about that ;D
quote author=BrianTRice link=topic=8473.msg71930#msg71930 date=1543535369]
Do not build a DIY connector unless you receive training from a qualified electrician and have the crimps examined by an EV expert.
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@BTR
A Direct observation with no statements, just math :
It is known 54A output. I believe a few people have posted photos with the output sticker on it.
Bike voltage range 90 vdc - 116.4 vdc
54A * 90 vdc = 4.8kw
54A * 102 vdc = 5.5kw (battery 50%)
54A * 110 vdc = 5.9kw (battery 80% where cutback should start)
54A * 114 vdc = 6.1kw (battery in the 90%s absolute max that could have full power, but probably shouldn't)
I will let you guys decide what this means, but its just some basic math based on known values.
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Ok, so I took a closer look at some stuff and the AC is not shared between the two and for some obvious saftey reasons.
Now that said, the charge tank seems to assume it is the only thing on the j1772 station, so if you were to ha k your onboard into it as well, it could trip the station by adding an extra 1kw to the numbers I shared above.
If you have a powerful station it would work. Otherwise it would just trip it.
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Thanks for providing measurements and observations, and particularly ones that can be tested by others.