ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: justhumangarbage on February 02, 2020, 06:29:36 AM
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Okay it was time for my 6k service and figured I would do it all by myself like a big boy. I forgot if swearing was allowed on this forum so cover your fricking ears if that offends you. I'm not a professional mechanic and my word here isn't god's word, I hold no legal responsibility, if you cross the streams and set your dog on fire or anything else that could happen due to your or my own incompetence. Follow this guide at your own risk, blah blah blah...
So left get our mise en place. You're gonna wanna have the following:
An Energica motorcycle
rear stand
the following allen keys/sockets 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 8mm
32mm socket
two 13mm open end wrench
8mm box wrench
A little boy torque wrench, teenage boy torque wrench and a bigger buff boy torque wrench
chain alignment tool if you wanna be pro
funnel
brake bleed setup of your choosing
Dex6 ATF 2 quarts
Coolant 1 jug
Brake fluid (dot4 or 5.1)
A blood sacrifice
A catch pan
Socket wrench
a smol hose clamp
teeny screw driver or pick
copper crush washers
replacement gasket or gasket material to make your own.
brake cleaner
bourbon
chain cleaner of your choice (kerosine)
chain lube of your choice (gear oil)
12 volt power source
possibly more bourbon.
loctite medium
In this service we are gonna do the following:
change the oil in the motor and gearbox while cleaning the oil pickup screen and changing gaskets, flush the coolant, flush the brake fluid, clean the lube chain, check/adjust chain tension, check/adjust chain alignment, and drink.
(https://i.imgur.com/4TcEucZ.jpg)
So let's get naked. Pretty much all the plastics are gonna wanna come off. Use your allen keys and start taking shit off. I started with the grey panel and worked my way down, and then did the "tank". Try to keep all the bolts in the holes they came out of on the panels as you set them aside. Use some blue painters tape if you wanna be sure they stay. keeping organised is important.
(https://i.imgur.com/qtVNiUA.jpg)
Much better. I did the oil stuff first and took the tank off later for the coolant. you're gonna wanna take the sprocket cover off too. and clean the crap out from inside of it because you're a good boy and you love your bike.
(https://i.imgur.com/YAQnpEs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IIccthF.jpg)
Now undo the filler caps for your motor and gearbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/raHUXMd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PjTqjfL.jpg)
The top red arrow is the filler cap, the bottom one is the drain. The blue one is your sight glass.
get your oil catch pan in place take off your drain plugs and start draining some oil. Your drain plugs have magnets on them (how do they work!?) and may have developed some afros. Make sure you clean all that crap off them, but take a picture of them before you do.
(https://i.imgur.com/nmVNrln.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XsAkF37.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qbiEt3B.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vJZC1cA.jpg)
You wanna also remove the sump pan. It's got 6 bolts and two of them are slightly longer, they are gonna be the ones that the guide dowels are on in case you get them mixed up somehow. Remove the gasket to replace with a new one or to use as a stencil to cut your own. Before installing the new gasket you wanna clean all the mating surfaces and also take out the oil pick up screen to clean it out and check to see if there is any buried treasure inside. Also take pictures of this before cleaning.
(https://i.imgur.com/JySUl3Q.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XCnlXqd.jpg)
Small fiber accumulation, but no chunks of metal, so that's good! Unexpected chunks of metal are bad.
You'll wanna clean this thing out with some brake cleaner, spray in from the tube side and make sure it looks brand new. admire how awesome looking and well built this tiny part that no one will see is.
clean up the inside where that part is going to be reinstalled, schmear some loctite 243 medium on that bolt, reinstall the pickup and torque to 10nm (~7.5 ft lbs ~88.5 in lbs)
Now take a moment to pour yourself a glass of bourbon while you let the oil slowly continue to drip out of the bike. Take this time to reflect on yourself and try to think of shortcomings in your personality and find ways to be a better person. Try not to cry.
Okay, now that you're done crying, put the new gasket in place and start bolting up the sump to the cleaned surface. You wanna torque these bad boys to 7Nm( ~4.5ft-lbs ~62in-lbs) in a cross pattern. Good job! Replace the crush washer on your drain plugs and torque them down to 25Nm(18.5 ft-lbs) Pat yourself on the back! You want to fill the gearbox side with 4oz of tasty and delicious ATF Dex6. Reinstall fill plug with new crush washer and torque to 25Nm(18.5 ft-lbs). Fill the motor with 1 quart of (don't actually drink it) ATF Dex6. Reinstall the filler plug and then run the motor at low speed for a couple of minutes. There is a weep hole covered by an m6 bolt around where the sprocket cover was. Undo this and when the oil stops weeping your oil is filled correctly. Sweet Jesus you changed the oil!
While we are over here, lets go ahead take a look at your dirty neglected chain, you horrible person. STOP CRYING! Your chain slack should be 30mm up and down travel. If you are somehow already at that spec, lucky you, just clean the chain and you're done. but most likely it's loose, so let's fix that. In order to check in the first place you wanna remove the three bolts on the hugger that hold the piece that covers the chain. This will make it much easier to check chain slack.
(https://i.imgur.com/PdKIyyn.jpg)
You might notice that you have a tight spot in your chain if you rotate the wheel around. if you do you wanna use the tight spot at your measuring point. In order to adjust the chain you'll need to grab a 32mm socket and loosen the rear axle. On both sides of the swing arm your seed the adjuster screws, you can adjust the tension on the chain by either screwing them in or out. the bolts are both 13mm bolts and a pair of open ended wrenches are your friends here. Adjust evenly and check the tension as you go. as soon as you have the tension set you can use a chain alignment tool to make sure your rear sprocket is parallel with your front sprocket(which is good) instead of being misaligned(which is bad). Make sure that the axel is being pushed against the sjuster plated, you can take a screwdriver shaft or punch shaft and place it in between the chain and rear sprocket and turn the wheel to get it tensioned. Torque the rear axle down to 80Nm (59ft-lbs) double check everything and then move on to clean and lube. Use your favorite cleaner, i like kerosene. degrease the chain and then wipe off the excess and let it dry out a bit.
Take this time to pour yourself another glass of Dex6, I mean bourbon. Make sure to also give yourself compliments on the things you are good at, things you have accomplished. it's important to be proud of yourself. For the love of god stop crying.
(https://i.imgur.com/saATFVb.jpg)
sad chain
(https://i.imgur.com/etq1ED9.jpg)
happy chain
Apply lube to chain, wipe off the excess. bolt the hugger piece back on and I think you're done with the chain. Good boy!
Now let's do the brake bleed.
(https://i.imgur.com/3QtoBw4.jpg)
If you have never done this before the most basic setup is some tubing that will fit over the bleed nipple and that leads to a collection jar. Take off the reservoir, apply your 8mm wrench to the bleed nipple the the caliper farthest away from the master cylinder, place the clear line around the nipple leading into a jar. Build pressure by squeezing the brake lever, then open the bleeder nipple till you feel the lever go down and quick shut the valve. repeat this many times until the brake fluid reservoir goes down. Don't let it drain completely, keep adding fluid one it gets to like 1/4 full. If it drains completely you will let air into the system and it will be terrible for everyone involved and you will need to offer a blood sacrifice to the brembo gods. Or you could rebleed again and make sure all the air bubbles are out. Now hopefully you have bled the left side correctly, close the bleeder valve and use a rag while taking off the line so you don't make a mess. Repeat on the right side, top off fluid, and you're almost done. Now there is that top bleeder nipple next to the reservoir, you can take a small section of line and route it to the inside of the reservoir and give it a few pumps till its cycled a few times, close the nipple and remove the line. Put the reservoir cover back on. A little secret you can do to make sure any remaining stow away bubbles exit at the top, get a zip tie and tie the brake lever all the way down and leave it like that overnight. Your brake lever should feel super duper in the morning.
(https://i.imgur.com/diheuHf.jpg)
That's gonna be a happy brake lever in the morning!
We are nearly done. To celebrate this near accomplishment, lets pour ourselves two glasses of bourbon. Pour one out for our homies who are no longer with us. Appreciate where you are in the world and the friends and family you have. Remember that your family can be chosen and they may not be related to you. Someone loves you, you should too. Stop crying for the love of god and all that is holy.
Okay time for the coolant! Dry your eyes and get your bike on its side stand. Undo the fill cap.
GET YOUR BIKE ON THE SIDE STAND!The bottom hose connection on the left side of the bike is gonna wanna come off. But it's got one of those annoying hose clamps like how KTM uses. We hate those thing. Get yourself a regular ass hose clamp to make this easier in the future. You can get these buggers off using a smol screwdriver or a pick inserted into it and pried off. Have your catch tray ready cause coolant will dump out of here.
(https://i.imgur.com/kSrY1CU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WnV1Ip7.jpg)
Note that that is not the clamp you wanna take off, I just forgot to take a picture before taking off the one I point to in the previous picture.
(https://i.imgur.com/Powo21n.jpg)
there we go. that one.
Once fluid stops spilling out, unlike how fluid wont stop spilling out of your eyes, how are you still crying!? You can put the hose back on and attach with your regular ass hose clamp. Open up the plug on the other side of the radiator and slowly fill till fluid comes out. You can help some of this by burping the bottom hose.
(https://i.imgur.com/owluJ5m.jpg)
Once the bubbles stop, put that plug back in to the tune of 10nm (~7.5 ft lbs ~88.5 in lbs)
Repeat this on the right hand side of the inverter, you wanna get some plastic and towels to make a channel for any fluid that wants to come out.
(https://i.imgur.com/FdMRMsp.jpg)
Put that bolt back in and torque to 8Nm( ~6ft-lbs ~71in-lbs) Now you wanna run the pump to make sure all those air bubbles are outta there. Hook it up to your 12v power source, maybe an old battery and some alligator clips, maybe a battery charger and a wireing harness and strpped wire. You do you. Just make sure that pump runs and circulates. Run it for about 5 minutes and any time the coolant level dips, top it off. Put the cap on the reservoir and..You're done? Almost.
Put the body panels back on from bottom to top. Now you're done!
(https://i.imgur.com/QPzFrj6.jpg)
Congratulations! You can pour yourself some bourbon to celebrate! This time with happy tears.
Bonus FYI! Other torque values for front and rear wheel stuff
Front wheel axle bolt: 60Nm
Front calib=per bolts: 40Nm
Front axle pinch bolts: 15Nm
Rear axle: 80Nm
Rear caliper: 30Nm
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Wow, so detailed!
...And a blood sacrifice. You make lists like my spouse... She once boot-strapped a PDP-11 which took a little blood onto the wire-wrapped contacts. Ever since, it's always on her list for anything big.
Nice!
-Crissa
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Dude nice work!
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Very nice. You made the whole thing approachable.
I've never even seen hose clamps like that.
How often, or do you, need to have the motor commissioned?
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Thanks for the detailed writeup!
Curious, since I couldn't find the Energica maintenance schedule online:
Is 6K mi. (hopefully that's not 6K km ;)) the regular service interval (presumably 6K or a year, whatever comes first)? That's about the same as many current ICE bikes (most Yamahas & BMWs). I'm surprised that oil has to be changed this frequently.
Also, everything you listed is considered by Energica mandatory? Coolant & brake fluid flush? That's odd.
On most bikes I recall, brake fluid is supposed to be replaced every 2 years, and I wouldn't expect that to be different on an EV bike (if anything, brakes are used less given regen). Ditto coolant; on my current Yamaha, it's to be replaced every 3 years.
If that's indeed a yearly maintenance service, it's actually more work that needs to be done than on many ICE bikes.
I wonder if all that isn't really needed, and Energica is being extra-conservative until they have more real-world experience with the bikes.
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Yep, as per the owner’s manual all fluids are replaced every 6,000 miles (10,000 kilometers). A number of us have chatted and feel the replacement frequency is probably due to Energica being conservative but nothing official has been stated as to why the short interval between fluid changes.
My local dealer charges around $300 (I have to look at my last 6k service receipt for the exact amount) for the service so I’m letting them do it while the bike is under warranty. Once it’s out of warranty I’ll probably start doing the work myself.
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I just had my BMW R1200RS serviced and was told by the service advisor at the shop that it never needs to be replaced as BMW uses the same coolant as their cars, which is designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle. The other day I picked up a bottle of Prestone coolant for my FZ1 at the local auto accessory store and noticed that it is claimed to last for something like 150K miles. My guess is that picking the right coolant should put an end to periodic replacement. Also, I thought that automatic transmission oils pretty much last forever too. The stuff in my car is now 20 years old and the transmission hasn't fallen apart yet. ???
The amount of Energica maintenance done does seem a bit excessive to me. ???
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Also, I thought that automatic transmission oils pretty much last forever too. The stuff in my car is now 20 years old and the transmission hasn't fallen apart yet. ???
Same here. Many say it's best to NEVER change ATF in an older tranny. Too often trannly leaks start right after an ATF change.
-Don- Reno, NV
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justhumangarbage - Thanks for an excellent write-up.
As it's time for my 6k service, your info will help greatly.
Forks were not discussed - Very curious - Fluid - What weight and amount for each fork?
Preventative maintenance - Lots of personal opinions out there. For myself, Fluids are cheap. Components like engines, transmissions, rack and pinion, master cylinders are expensive that fail because of lack of preventive maintenance. In my 2003, 181k miles, all fluids get changed on a set schedule. I've done it since ownership. My Eva will get the same treatment - all fluids on a set schedule.
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I just checked both the owner's manual and workshop manual for my EsseEsse9 and neither one specify fork oil for either the Marzocchi(sp) or Ohlins(sp). My guess is whatever is recommended by the fork manufacturer or whatever the conventional wisdom says to use. Kind of surprised the workshop manual doesn't cover fork maintenance (fork springs, valves, fluid), just fork removal.
My guess is the expectation is you will remove the forks and send them out to a fork shop to re-valve or whatever it needs.
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Nice write up!! Cool pictures, its neat to see pics like this up and close. One thing I noticed is that the high-voltage cover on the motor looks 3d printed! Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, just interesting.
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Nice write up!! Cool pictures, its neat to see pics like this up and close. One thing I noticed is that the high-voltage cover on the motor looks 3d printed! Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, just interesting.
Energica's parent company, CRP, is an experienced supplier to various industries of composite 3D printed parts; a significant part of their success in developing the race bikes & later streetbikes is apparently being able to do rapid prototyping this way. IIRC, a significant number of the bikes' parts are 3D-printed -- this may also help them offer multiple models over a small overall unit volume.
Presumably once volumes grow they'll transition to more standard mass-production methods.
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/energica-establishes-new-department-for-development-of-energica-ego-motorcycle-140265/ (https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/energica-establishes-new-department-for-development-of-energica-ego-motorcycle-140265/)
https://www.insidecomposites.com/crps-technology-in-first-italian-electric-motorcycle/ (https://www.insidecomposites.com/crps-technology-in-first-italian-electric-motorcycle/)
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Energica's parent company, CRP, is an experienced supplier to various industries of composite 3D printed parts; a significant part of their success in developing the race bikes & later streetbikes is apparently being able to do rapid prototyping this way. IIRC, a significant number of the bikes' parts are 3D-printed -- this may also help them offer multiple models over a small overall unit volume.
Presumably once volumes grow they'll transition to more standard mass-production methods.
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/energica-establishes-new-department-for-development-of-energica-ego-motorcycle-140265/ (https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/energica-establishes-new-department-for-development-of-energica-ego-motorcycle-140265/)
https://www.insidecomposites.com/crps-technology-in-first-italian-electric-motorcycle/ (https://www.insidecomposites.com/crps-technology-in-first-italian-electric-motorcycle/)
Oh thats cool! I've been 3D printing my own designs for a couple of years now and am a huge fan of production 3d printed products, I've even used them on my bikes over the past couple years and they work great. Much faster to fix defects in parts or add improvements and injection molding.
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BMW recommends changing fork oil on their new models at 18K mile intervals. My bike's ESA suspension uses Sachs components, while the latest 1250 models are said to have switched to Marzcocchi forks. I imagine that the oil change interval would remain the same.
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In response to people saying the maintenance is excessive
IMO. It is. I did the 6k service to make sure nothing is wrong with the bike and to keep it in warranty. Once it's out of warranty I will mostly be changing chains and brake pads.
My guess for the excessive service intervals is due to a two factor thingamabob.
1. The dealers need a reason to stock the bikes aside from the initial sale. They need their shops busy too, so a bike that doesn't need service isn't an appeal.
2. New company, new bikes. They can't say for sure what problems may arise, so having short intervals allows some data collection. Playing it safe.
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I was thinking #2, myself.
-Crissa
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My local dealer charges around $300 (I have to look at my last 6k service receipt for the exact amount) for the service so I’m letting them do it while the bike is under warranty. Once it’s out of warranty I’ll probably start doing the work myself.
I hope my dealer does not read this, I pay €150, for regular service without other work.
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For $150 I'm lucky to get an hour's labor, let alone parts.
-Crissa
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My dealer wanted $550 for the 6k service
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Hi,
I just used your nice tutorial to do the 1000km service. Went very smoothly and confirm very handy to have your nice complete write up with some fun interlaced :-)
One question though: do you know how to reset the maintenance km counter once finished? Or only dealers can reset this?
I know it does not physically matter, but just to keep the computer up to date with what is done.
Best regards,
Seb
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stick this topic please ;D
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Hi,
I just used your nice tutorial to do the 1000km service. Went very smoothly and confirm very handy to have your nice complete write up with some fun interlaced :-)
One question though: do you know how to reset the maintenance km counter once finished? Or only dealers can reset this?
I know it does not physically matter, but just to keep the computer up to date with what is done.
Best regards,
Seb
Just asked the same question on the video page, didn't know you asked this here, have you already been able to reset it?
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No unfortunately. Will let you know if I find a way!
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No unfortunately. Will let you know if I find a way!
Thanks !
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What is you battery status at 6k? With 3700km I've less than 45km range!
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Thanks for the write up! I keep getting back to this just to watch the details on the bike... And I don't even have an Energica ;D
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I just checked both the owner's manual and workshop manual for my EsseEsse9 and neither one specify fork oil for either the Marzocchi(sp) or Ohlins(sp). My guess is whatever is recommended by the fork manufacturer or whatever the conventional wisdom says to use. Kind of surprised the workshop manual doesn't cover fork maintenance (fork springs, valves, fluid), just fork removal.
My guess is the expectation is you will remove the forks and send them out to a fork shop to re-valve or whatever it needs.
Good Day recently took delivery on my Energica SS9 Plus.
I have an owner's manual where can I get a workshop manual?
PDF Download from somewhere?
Let me know and thanks
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Good Day recently took delivery on my Energica SS9 Plus.
I have an owner's manual where can I get a workshop manual?
PDF Download from somewhere?
Let me know and thanks
As far I know there is none unfortunately, it is all a big secret ;)
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This is a nice overview no? Is there more to be serviced? Other than chain and tyres and typical pre ride checks
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This post covers the most important things to do on the Energica, all the other stuff like brakes, fork and chain is the same as on any other bike.
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Hey! Thanks for the post. I am just wrapping up the oil change in my 2018 Ego. One thing I noticed, and I am not sure if you can edit your post, but you state "Fill the motor with 1 quart of (dont actually drink it) ATF Dex6" when actually the bike takes almost 2 quarts during an oil change. The Weep hole process drained off almost 2 ounces for me. I assume "1 quart" was a typo, because nothing should weep if only one quart is added. I also have some questions about the statement (that you and others have made) of "One cup" for the gear box, when the manual calls for 3.4 oz. One cup/4oz puts the fluid level well over the site glass when the bike is vertical... but I dont know that more fluid in the gearbox is a bad thing. Thanks again for the info!
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Hey! Thanks for the post. I am just wrapping up the oil change in my 2018 Ego. One thing I noticed, and I am not sure if you can edit your post, but you state "Fill the motor with 1 quart of (dont actually drink it) ATF Dex6" when actually the bike takes almost 2 quarts during an oil change. The Weep hole process drained off almost 2 ounces for me. I assume "1 quart" was a typo, because nothing should weep if only one quart is added. I also have some questions about the statement (that you and others have made) of "One cup" for the gear box, when the manual calls for 3.4 oz. One cup/4oz puts the fluid level well over the site glass when the bike is vertical... but I dont know that more fluid in the gearbox is a bad thing. Thanks again for the info!
Glad I have an Experia, it takes a grand total of 50ml of oil...that's right a solitary egg-cup full....and it's changed out at 15k km intervals... a single 1L bottle of oil will, "in theory", last 300,000km.
Smithy.
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Glad I have an Experia, it takes a grand total of 50ml of oil...that's right a solitary egg-cup full....and it's changed out at 15k km intervals... a single 1L bottle of oil will, "in theory", last 300,000km.
Smithy.
Did you also change it at 1,000 KM (600 miles)? I did mine. Even after letting it drain and drip out all night, that 50 ml almost seems like too much. It will fill the site glass past the very top.
The drain screw is a small Torx-25 screw near the sidestand spring. Kinda difficult to find if you do not know where to look.
This is the oil (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUC-10778-1)I used in my Experia.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Did you also change it at 1,000 KM (600 miles)? I did mine. Even after letting it drain and drip out all night, that 50 ml almost seems like too much. It will fill the site glass past the very top.
The drain screw is a small Torx-25 screw near the sidestand spring. Kinda difficult to find if you do not know where to look.
This is the oil (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUC-10778-1)I used in my Experia.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Yes I did indeed change the oil at 1000km. I also changed out the little drain plug and put a stainless 6x1mm 5mm headed Allen bolt in it's place, much easier to get onto as the torx head screw is quite soft and the torx part is quite shallow and at a slight angle.
I just fill it till the oil is between 1/2 and 3/4 of the way up the little sight glass....the 50ml is just a nominal amount I suspect.....You'll never get it all out, there's a small "cavity" near the drain port where the oil sits. I left mine to drain overnight and I could still see a small amount in the bottom of the housing afterwards.
I use a similar oil but it's made by Australian oil company Nulon, full synthetic 75w85 gear oil.
Smithy.
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I use a similar oil but it's made by Nulon, full synthetic 75w85 gear oil.
Smithy.
Is the Experia using true gear oil and not Dex6 ATF as in the EGO / EVA series?
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I use a similar oil but it's made by Nulon, full synthetic 75w85 gear oil.
Smithy.
Is the Experia using true gear oil and not Dex6 ATF as in the EGO / EVA series?
The owners manual mentions "Traxion Gear 7" 80W85, which is indeed a proper gear oil.
Smithy.
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Is the Experia using true gear oil and not Dex6 ATF as in the EGO / EVA series?
The Experia has a very different motor and gearbox. And I can tell when riding by the range it gets at faster speeds. It has MUCH better range at freeway speeds but worse range at slower speeds when compared to my 2020 SS9-. I don't think it is my imagination. At freeway speeds I am getting three times the range of my Esse Esse 9, with a battery only twice the size.
But at slower speeds, the Esse Esse 9 makes a big difference with speed when it comes to range.
I am very happy with the freeway range of the Experia. It gets closer to the same range at different speeds. Of course still a lot better slow than fast, but not as big of a difference as with my 2020 SS9.
IMO, the Experia is geared perfectly for most of my riding.
-Don- Reno, NV
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He asked what oil it used, not your lollipop pay attention to me today opinion jeez dude.
chill on the attention whoring and ill chill on the trolling ok?
Aaron
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Glad I have an Experia, it takes a grand total of 50ml of oil...that's right a solitary egg-cup full....and it's changed out at 15k km intervals... a single 1L bottle of oil will, "in theory", last 300,000km.
Smithy.
Did you also change it at 1,000 KM (600 miles)? I did mine. Even after letting it drain and drip out all night, that 50 ml almost seems like too much. It will fill the site glass past the very top.
The drain screw is a small Torx-25 screw near the sidestand spring. Kinda difficult to find if you do not know where to look.
This is the oil (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUC-10778-1)I used in my Experia.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Hello all, got My Experia back in March and recently did the 600 mile service, bike has about 1300 miles on it now.
When I did my drain and fill, I used the very obvious internal hex drain plug on the side, behind and slightly below the sight widow, and the very obvious fill plug right above. The drain plug is magnetic, has a crush washer, and gear oil came out, tipped on side stand. 50 ml in a syringe took it up to the top of the window, which is where it was from the factory.
I'm curious what t25 torx drain plug you are talking about that is hard to find.
On the oil... Since factory spec is a EU market oil you can't get here, I first tried Redline MTL 85, but that made the gearbox whine louder enough to notice, viscosity was lower that the factory spec at the cold end, probably why. So I drained it and refilled with belray 80w85, which was close to the traxium spec sheet on the low end. Sounds the same now.
(and yes, I need to clean the chain... wish the centerstand was available)
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Hello all, got My Experia back in March and recently did the 600 mile service, bike has about 1300 miles on it now.
When I did my drain and fill, I used the very obvious internal hex drain plug on the side, behind and slightly below the sight widow, and the very obvious fill plug right above. The drain plug is magnetic, has a crush washer, and gear oil came out, tipped on side stand. 50 ml in a syringe took it up to the top of the window, which is where it was from the factory.
I'm curious what t25 torx drain plug you are talking about that is hard to find.
On the oil... Since factory spec is a EU market oil you can't get here, I first tried Redline MTL 85, but that made the gearbox whine louder enough to notice, viscosity was lower that the factory spec at the cold end, probably why. So I drained it and refilled with belray 80w85, which was close to the traxium spec sheet on the low end. Sounds the same now.
(and yes, I need to clean the chain... wish the centerstand was available)
The "actual" drain plug is down underneath, behind the side stand mount, you have to get down underneath and look from below to see it, the gallery which goes down to the small drain plug from the gearcase will also be full of old oil. I actually removed "both" the lower plugs to get "all" the old oil out....it's not much though, just a dribble or two as the plug thread is only 6x1mm thread size and the gallery is maybe about 40mm long.
Smithy.
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Hello all, got My Experia back in March and recently did the 600 mile service, bike has about 1300 miles on it now.
When I did my drain and fill, I used the very obvious internal hex drain plug on the side, behind and slightly below the sight widow, and the very obvious fill plug right above. The drain plug is magnetic, has a crush washer, and gear oil came out, tipped on side stand. 50 ml in a syringe took it up to the top of the window, which is where it was from the factory.
I'm curious what t25 torx drain plug you are talking about that is hard to find.
On the oil... Since factory spec is a EU market oil you can't get here, I first tried Redline MTL 85, but that made the gearbox whine louder enough to notice, viscosity was lower that the factory spec at the cold end, probably why. So I drained it and refilled with belray 80w85, which was close to the traxium spec sheet on the low end. Sounds the same now.
(and yes, I need to clean the chain... wish the centerstand was available)
The "actual" drain plug is down underneath behind the side stand mount, you have to get down underneath and look from below to see it, the gallery which goes down to the small drain plug from the gearcase will also be full of old oil. I actually removed "both" the lower plugs to get "all" the old oil out....it's not much though, just a dribble or two as the plug thread is only 6x1mm thread size and the gallery is maybe about 40mm long.
Smithy.
I did see a little bolt down there, but it didn't seem accessable without removing the sidestand mount.. there is not enough room. Why have two, how strange. Anyway, seeing as I changed it twice, I should be good...I only have 150,000 miles of gear oil on hand if do that every time. :-)
I'll have to ask my local dealer about it when I go in to get the wrench turned off and FW updated. They are waiting on a new diagnostics computer from Energica, so might be a while.
Related, where are you guys finding service info? That drain plug location is not in the manual and I can't find anything on-line in the experia yet.
Thx
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Hello all, got My Experia back in March and recently did the 600 mile service, bike has about 1300 miles on it now.
When I did my drain and fill, I used the very obvious internal hex drain plug on the side, behind and slightly below the sight widow, and the very obvious fill plug right above. The drain plug is magnetic, has a crush washer, and gear oil came out, tipped on side stand. 50 ml in a syringe took it up to the top of the window, which is where it was from the factory.
I'm curious what t25 torx drain plug you are talking about that is hard to find.
On the oil... Since factory spec is a EU market oil you can't get here, I first tried Redline MTL 85, but that made the gearbox whine louder enough to notice, viscosity was lower that the factory spec at the cold end, probably why. So I drained it and refilled with belray 80w85, which was close to the traxium spec sheet on the low end. Sounds the same now.
(and yes, I need to clean the chain... wish the centerstand was available)
The "actual" drain plug is down underneath behind the side stand mount, you have to get down underneath and look from below to see it, the gallery which goes down to the small drain plug from the gearcase will also be full of old oil. I actually removed "both" the lower plugs to get "all" the old oil out....it's not much though, just a dribble or two as the plug thread is only 6x1mm thread size and the gallery is maybe about 40mm long.
Smithy.
I did see a little bolt down there, but it didn't seem accessable without removing the sidestand mount.. there is not enough room. Why have two, how strange. Anyway, seeing as I changed it twice, I should be good...I only have 150,000 miles of gear oil on hand if do that every time. :-)
I'll have to ask my local dealer about it when I go in to get the wrench turned off and FW updated. They are waiting on a new diagnostics computer from Energica, so might be a while.
Related, where are you guys finding service info? That drain plug location is not in the manual and I can't find anything on-line in the experia yet.
Thx
I just looked in the owners manual for the drain plug and it says M6 and is tightened to 10nm. The plug you removed isn't anywhere near M6.
Smithy.
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Hello all, got My Experia back in March and recently did the 600 mile service, bike has about 1300 miles on it now.
When I did my drain and fill, I used the very obvious internal hex drain plug on the side, behind and slightly below the sight widow, and the very obvious fill plug right above. The drain plug is magnetic, has a crush washer, and gear oil came out, tipped on side stand. 50 ml in a syringe took it up to the top of the window, which is where it was from the factory.
I'm curious what t25 torx drain plug you are talking about that is hard to find.
On the oil... Since factory spec is a EU market oil you can't get here, I first tried Redline MTL 85, but that made the gearbox whine louder enough to notice, viscosity was lower that the factory spec at the cold end, probably why. So I drained it and refilled with belray 80w85, which was close to the traxium spec sheet on the low end. Sounds the same now.
(and yes, I need to clean the chain... wish the centerstand was available)
The "actual" drain plug is down underneath behind the side stand mount, you have to get down underneath and look from below to see it, the gallery which goes down to the small drain plug from the gearcase will also be full of old oil. I actually removed "both" the lower plugs to get "all" the old oil out....it's not much though, just a dribble or two as the plug thread is only 6x1mm thread size and the gallery is maybe about 40mm long.
Smithy.
I did see a little bolt down there, but it didn't seem accessable without removing the sidestand mount.. there is not enough room. Why have two, how strange. Anyway, seeing as I changed it twice, I should be good...I only have 150,000 miles of gear oil on hand if do that every time. :-)
I'll have to ask my local dealer about it when I go in to get the wrench turned off and FW updated. They are waiting on a new diagnostics computer from Energica, so might be a while.
Related, where are you guys finding service info? That drain plug location is not in the manual and I can't find anything on-line in the experia yet.
Thx
I jst looked in the owners manual for the drain plug and it says M6 and is tightened to 10nm. The plug you removed isn't anywhere near M6.
Smithy.
I guess I didn't pay attention to the M6 designation, but yes, 10nm did feel a little light on the fill and drain plugs I assumed were the correct ones. Still seems very odd to have a magnetic drain plug that is not the real drain plug. Appreciate the insight.
Edit to add: I shot a note to my dealer to ask for torque value of the fill plug (not an M6) and see if I can get the service details on the drain and fill. I'll share what I learn.
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Good Day recently took delivery on my Energica SS9 Plus.
I have an owner's manual where can I get a workshop manual?
PDF Download from somewhere?
Let me know and thanks
As far I know there is none unfortunately, it is all a big secret ;)
I think you have to search harder. I have one from an older Eva model (2020?). Found it online or on facebook, do not know anymore.
But sorry, I am not going to share it here.
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https://www.motomanuals.net/energica/ (https://www.motomanuals.net/energica/)
Once connected, ignore the pop-ups and scroll down to pdf downloads.
Applies to 1st gen Ego/Eva bikes not the EMCE variants but still good reference given common frame, suspension, steering-head, brake, swingarm, wheel, switchgear, bodywork bits have not changed.
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https://www.motomanuals.net/energica/ (https://www.motomanuals.net/energica/)
Once connected, ignore the pop-ups and scroll down to pdf downloads.
Applies to 1st gen Ego/Eva bikes not the EMCE variants but still good reference given common frame, suspension, steering-head, brake, swingarm, wheel, switchgear, bodywork bits have not changed.
Not much good if you own an Experia....totally different animal.
Smithy.
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Not much good if you own an Experia....totally different animal.
Smithy.
This is true but intent of this thread from the beginning was not about the Experia but rather an Eva maintenance session which makes the maintenance manual web-link provided even more relevant to the discussion than the continual thread diversion to the Experia...
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Looking through the site glass on a 2023 Rebelle at 2500 miles, my gear oil is pretty dark.
Changed it at 400 miles and at 2000 miles.
It was not that dirty at the 400 mile mark, had some but minor metallic debris on the magnetic plug. No debris at the 2k mark. Just dark oil. Used the original spec gear oil https://store.robsdyno.com/product/legacy-motor-service-kit/
Spoke with EONE and they said it is normal.
What has been your experience?
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I just checked my oil yesterday after a long day of running. 160 miles and first time seen my battery go yellow. Then again it was 98 degrees out and I was pushing it pretty hard on the highway. It didn't seem dark at all, straw color, or is that dark and its supposed to be clear?
Aaron
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I just checked my oil yesterday after a long day of running. 160 miles and first time seen my battery go yellow. Then again it was 98 degrees out and I was pushing it pretty hard on the highway. It didn't seem dark at all, straw color, or is that dark and its supposed to be clear?
Aaron
Mine is grey. I used to have straw color. How many miles on that oil?
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It's about 2900 now.
Aaron
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Here is how mine looks with less mileage than yours. I may ride it harder though.
Found this:
"mine's been grey at every gear oil change
if you look on the fill plug, you will find a fine metallic sludge built up on the magnetic plug. this is the material that is making your gear oil grey. it looks particularly bad right after new car purchase (ie new gear wear) or after the installation of higher ratio gears.
of any of the colors that have been described above, this is probably the best type of contamination to have (if you have newer gears). with subsequent changes the oil will be progressively less grey in color as the meshing surfaces wear into one another. eventually you shouldn't have much material coming off at all. i guess you have to know how many times and how recently the gear oil was changed, in order to really tell if something abnormal is going on. . . . although you don't want gear chunks on the magnet either, this would be bad. . . .
good luck"
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That's pretty normal, the wear in / break in period as everything fine tunes and meshes itself to each other what they are describing.
As for how I ride, ehh, firstly im not very experienced yet, don't like to call myself any sort of 'experienced' when with groups of people who have ridden for probably half my age on a bike, so while what I may think is running hard is a walk in a park for them.
I like to romp it when I can but not when it's being stupid. ie I am NOT that asshole sewing their way thru traffic weaving in and out of cars like a sewing machine, but if there is a bit fo a straight away, yah, triple digits here I come. If it's a nice sunday morning and there is no traffic, then yah, im hittin' it. I don't do the track yet but that's going to be changing here very fast. The track by me is closed until Sept for heat reasons, (no comment on that one) but when it opens, I plan on being a regular there, and as you know I have also enrolled for that Yamaha school and will probably take any and all classes I can that can help me become a better rider, along with actually riding and learning of course.
Fine mud, is ok, that is normal wear and tear, and in fact, I can XRF my oil and see exactly what is in it and then from there extrapolate, ok what part is this wear from, (IF I can get from energica what metals were used for their gear train / bearings / loading surfaces etc) to know. This one of the things I used to do in the navy with their oil analysis program, we'd light up an oil sample then see what all is in it and from there can go, ok you are eating your main bearing etc on the diesel. I don't use the electrostatic one at home, I have a regular X ray XRF, but have access to the electrostatic whenever I need thru contacts with friends still in the navy but from what I have seen, mine is just as good and actually better since I can see into the low PPM's and I can CW my X-ray emitter for a longer sample time and better resolution via the few seconds of the electrostatic due to it's destructive nature.
Anyways... if you were tearing something up, Id think you should be able to see / hear that and FEEL that thru its performance, the backlash when gear entrainment occurs would get more etc. Since we don't have a clutch, just the back and forth rock will have to suffice.
Aaron
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^^^ Thank you!
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That's pretty normal, the wear in / break in period as everything fine tunes and meshes itself to each other what they are describing.
As for how I ride, ehh, firstly im not very experienced yet, don't like to call myself any sort of 'experienced' when with groups of people who have ridden for probably half my age on a bike, so while what I may think is running hard is a walk in a park for them.
I like to romp it when I can but not when it's being stupid. ie I am NOT that asshole sewing their way thru traffic weaving in and out of cars like a sewing machine, but if there is a bit fo a straight away, yah, triple digits here I come. If it's a nice sunday morning and there is no traffic, then yah, im hittin' it. I don't do the track yet but that's going to be changing here very fast. The track by me is closed until Sept for heat reasons, (no comment on that one) but when it opens, I plan on being a regular there, and as you know I have also enrolled for that Yamaha school and will probably take any and all classes I can that can help me become a better rider, along with actually riding and learning of course.
Fine mud, is ok, that is normal wear and tear, and in fact, I can XRF my oil and see exactly what is in it and then from there extrapolate, ok what part is this wear from, (IF I can get from energica what metals were used for their gear train / bearings / loading surfaces etc) to know. This one of the things I used to do in the navy with their oil analysis program, we'd light up an oil sample then see what all is in it and from there can go, ok you are eating your main bearing etc on the diesel. I don't use the electrostatic one at home, I have a regular X ray XRF, but have access to the electrostatic whenever I need thru contacts with friends still in the navy but from what I have seen, mine is just as good and actually better since I can see into the low PPM's and I can CW my X-ray emitter for a longer sample time and better resolution via the few seconds of the electrostatic due to it's destructive nature.
Anyways... if you were tearing something up, Id think you should be able to see / hear that and FEEL that thru its performance, the backlash when gear entrainment occurs would get more etc. Since we don't have a clutch, just the back and forth rock will have to suffice.
Aaron
There's not much in there to cause the oil colour change is there..?? Three little straight-cut gears in the case of the Rebelle, SS9 and EGO, little else...two little straight-cut gears in the case of the Experia, (the motor spins backwards on the Experia)....why it's going dark would be something I'd like to find out. :-\ My Experia is still clear after 7300km, I'll probably change it out at 10k km instead of the recommended 15k km. Even at the first "running-in" 1000km oil change it was still clear, no stray little bits of metal on the drain plug magnet either.
Smithy.
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There's not much in there to cause the oil colour change is there..?? Three little straight-cut gears in the case of the Rebelle, SS9 and EGO, little else...two little straight-cut gears in the case of the Experia, (the motor spins backwards on the Experia)....why it's going dark would be something I'd like to find out. :-\ My Experia is still clear after 7300km, I'll probably change it out at 10k km instead of the recommended 15k km. Even at the first "running-in" 1000km oil change it was still clear, no stray little bits of metal on the drain plug magnet either.
Smithy.
When I spoke to tech at Energica of New England he told me that he has seen it, and it is normal just from the friction of the gears. As long as there is no significant metallic accumulation on the drain plug, ride on. I am puzzled as well why this discoloration happens on some bikes and not others.
This link sort of helps make sense of it if you are using red fluid that AF1 sells.
https://cartreatments.com/transmission-fluid-color/
Why using the right lubrication matters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ZS1t7Y3po
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It was mentioned that drain plug had sludge on it and based on sight glass picture it looks like residual moly-lube likely used in the assembly process. The small amount of gear lube normally used is likely not enough to flush out all of it and reason discoloration persists. If this was my bike, I would place bike on paddock stand and fill the gearbox w/ maybe 3x recommended amount and operate motor for a few minutes at modest speed w/ fill plug removed in a effort to rinse out the offending goo then drain and refill at normal level. If you do this you must disable traction control and have rag handy to catch any fluid that spits out fill hole. Just a thought or live with it as it appears benign.
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Moly Lube, Cosmoline, or any other industrial lube / preservative / coatings that may have been put on the parts before assembly to keep rust and other oxidation crap off them. Pretty much benign, but WILL discolor your oil first time or two until it get washed off via friction / detergent action of whatever lube you are using.
Each gearbox is unique, as each individual part has it's own individual tolerances on it, and now when you assemble them into a 'unit' they all have to play nice with each other, as they mesh in, wear in to the overall train. Fine shavings are normal in fact as you go, will probably see small amounts through the life of the unit. Ideally there will be none or minimal, but just their presence is not an issue unless it gets bigger parts or a LOT of them!
As for how much to change the oil color. You have to remember, some of these particles are sub micron size, like stupid fine talcum powder fine. It's not like your gear teeth are slamming and smashing into each other knocking chunks out, it's more initial contact wear if anything. once you hit the power, and romp on it, and torque it, all the power vectors change, the loading surfaces change, especially as it torques up with the load, and new parts are now carrying the strain in different areas, engaging each other in ways not before seen. When the powder is that stupid fine, it doesn't take much to change the color. Take a rough piece of wood and sand it, it becomes smooth. Kind of the same thing happening, the gears and cams and whatever are rough... even though they may be machined, microscopically they are rough... as they rub on each other, they smooth each other out, just like sandpaper does when you rub it on wood, and what you are seeing is essentially the metal 'sawdust' of this action.
I also refine gold as one of my many hobbies. When I drop it from an AR solution, the sediment can be anywhere from a dark grey color, to a reddish almost brown rust color, but it's all gold, and once you melt it down, it gets back to it's original color. That's just because of it's miniscule size, how it diffracts the light and your eye interprets it. Don't let color or even it's presence scare you, again unless it's a lot.
Aaron
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@PMW and @Specter Interesting insights indeed. Thx!
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It was mentioned that drain plug had sludge on it and based on sight glass picture it looks like residual moly-lube likely used in the assembly process. The small amount of gear lube normally used is likely not enough to flush out all of it and reason discoloration persists. If this was my bike, I would place bike on paddock stand and fill the gearbox w/ maybe 3x recommended amount and operate motor for a few minutes at modest speed w/ fill plug removed in a effort to rinse out the offending goo then drain and refill at normal level. If you do this you must disable traction control and have rag handy to catch any fluid that spits out fill hole. Just a thought or live with it as it appears benign.
Followed your recommendations and it worked like a charm. Filled the gear box with 3x normal fluid after a drain of old. Ran the bike a bit on a stand, drained and refilled with normal amount of fluid.
A couple of hundred mile later, so far the fluid is remaining clear. Excellent idea. Thank you.
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one thing you must also remember.
Even though the 'offending goo' is a different color, looks ugly etc, they are NOT going to put the thing together in the first place, with a compound in it, that would actually harm it. It may look nasty but is totally harmless overall to your machine. Not to mention there is so little of it to begin with.
Aaron
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^^ +1