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Messages - ElectricZen

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 9
1
Harley LiveWire Forum / Re: Any news?
« on: July 30, 2018, 04:13:32 AM »
They've branded it "Revelation"?? I grew up in Bible-thumping culture and cannot believe this made it through marketing. Yes, let's associate this motorcycle with hallucinations, moral turmoil, and (one version of) the end of the world myth.

Labor relations are another kettle of fish...
Oh look! HD's marketing team might actually be worse than Zero's[emoji23]. I agee, that's an awful name.  If true, I will endlessly troll the HD riders I know and dealerships I visit...


Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


2
Dennis... Please let us know how that first day with the diginow goes when you get it[emoji16]. You are going to love it!

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3
I thought this might be a good place to report an oddity with the SOC gauge on my 2017 DSR.  I commute to work every day on my DSR which normally uses from 6% - 7% charge each way.  I noticed the other day that when I got to work after charging up to 100% at home, the gauge read 92% which was about normal.  However, when I left work that day the gauge read 98%.  I thought okay that's cool, I'm not going to complain about gaining 6% extra charge for free.  But on the way home I noticed that once I hit something like 94% charge, the gauge dropped to 87% in a very short period of time.  After that point, the gauge seemed to function properly without any sudden fluctuations.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced this issue and if this is one of the glitches with the later versions of firmware.  I have not updated the firmware since taking delivery of the bike in March of this year.
2016 DSR. And what you described is basically "life" for me with my firmware.   Having been through a few versions of firmware and having put some milage with all of them with slow and fast charging, this is "normal".  It is important to note the following:

- battery voltage is the only true and reliable way to determine the state of charge of a battery(any battery ironically).  But battery voltage slides about a bit if you watch it.  If you are using, putting in or letting sit at rest the voltage will be different in all those scenarios.

-soc or state of charge is a porportional representation.  Ie. A fraction. So it is only applicable with a known total or max.  As we all, I'm sure, have experienced different ranges under different temperatures, various environmental conditions etc.  So "full" is really a subjective term, for example "when is a ballon full?  Before it pops? But if you fill it with cold air then move to a warm environment, it pops".  You get the idea.

-on the software end, it is observable using the zero voltage app to see the "total ah capacity" slide around a lot.  The zero motorcycles app no longer displays total kwh.  Voltage time amps equals watts...  It is very likely a much more complicated problem than it seems.  Since really what we all want to know is "how far can I go under the current conditions"

-lastly the top 10% of any battery is a bit subjective, I have noticed this in all the versions of frimware I have used.  10km and soc hasn't moved. Then 1km a % then back to normal sub 90%.

Now, with that all said!  It doesn't mean that this isn't fustrating for those afflicted.  I think we are all afflicted to a degree, the question is when is it going to show itself.  I have travelled a week with completely normal behaviour with the most afflicted and worse version of firmware I have seen.  Then suddenly without warning, seemingly completely random it would resume it's erratic behaviour.  The latest is better but still no where as reliable as the pre June 2017 version.  The soc will eventually find the correct representation, but sitting at a stop, gaining or loosing %'s still unnerves me.  Remember this seems to be strictly BMS firmware related.  Hopefully new bikes and newer battery packs are immune to these problems.

Morale of the story:. Watch your battery voltage!  Whether you are noticing soc reporting problems or not!  Just make sure it's not crazy!  100v is about 20% and 112v is about 80%.  Its pretty linear between those two.  0%-20% and 80%-100% follow a different curve.  116.4v is full and 96v is empty. 

Hope this helps someone!  #chargeriderepeat

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4
Perhaps it's finally safe to upgrade.  Still running my stock firmware on my '16 DSR.  Thanks to all for paving the way on a bumpy road!

Steve
I think “if you like the way your bike operates, leave it alone” still applies.  Mine appears improved but I’m not certain I’m back to pre-update performance yet.


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^this... 

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5


What I miss most with this year's recent BMS and MBB firmware updates is the disappearance of the current battery pack kWh capacity information. I thought that was interesting and gave you a way to track the overall condition of the battery pack over time.  Which is why that information was probably eliminated by Zero.   ::)

I agree!  I miss it too, for better or worse I personally expect there to be some degredation and would rather Zero be "adult" about it and show us this info.  I always found it reassuring since 100% Soc wavers a bit... 114.8v to the 116.4v.  wihich could mean the difference of no small amount of miles.  It certainly seems like Zero is trying to hide or "leave out" important info.

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6
Funny, seems I forgot to mention my MBB firmware is rev 53 BMS rev 41.

Clearly we are seeing similar behaviors.  Well, that is reassuring.  I have found via observing via Zero Voltage App for Android, that total calculated ah of the battery likes to drift about.  Which will definitely cause bad range estimates.  Remember everytime the firmware is updated the logs are uploaded and wiped from memory.  So the "learning" starts over. 

I have noticed small improvements in estimates the more I ride.  But SOC will still climb and fall 2-3% randomly at a stop to better reflect where the battery voltage is.  Voltage is still king, unfortunately Zero hasn't provided a reliable way to watch it.

That said, with my mixed highway and city riding, I am beginning to see the range driven versus SoC to appear more accurate.( Which indicates to me, no sign of battery degredation, yay!)  Maybe at this rate we will see Pre-2017 reliability by 2020 🤣

PS.  The rumor is ONLY diginow can roll back firmware...haha.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HD using Tapatalk


7
One day apart.  Before second dealer visit to get the ODO running again.  Dealer changed the ODO to 27600 (est of what I used over the weekend). They ran 2 km there in the shop to verify it was counting.  Rode 80km from there as you can see, but 29682 is wrong.  Very curious to see if this reoccurs for anyone else.  Seems really random lol.

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8
Thanks to everyone for their input!  I recognize familiar symptoms described by others.  With my ODO fix I also had an unexpected side affect.  In less than a 24hr period my ODO jumped up 2000km(~1600miles) and now reads incorrectly.  Obviously, there is NO way I covered that kind of distance without knowing about it[emoji16].   I still follow Voltage closely to keep eye on the "real" state of charge. I have sometimes felt the SOC was a bit low..1-3% then would notice at a light that the % would grow appropriately and vice versa.  So obviously the algorithm is getting better.  But Pre August 2017 firmware was considerably more reliable considering some stretches up here in Canada have me rolling into the ONLY ev station in the entire town at 00% [emoji23]. Fustrating would certainly be a good description how I feel.  I was also told Zero CANNOT rollback firmware...  Which just seems silly[emoji19]

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9
Update: Odometer is firmware related, caused when the installed firmware doesn't recognize the bike.  Symptom is in the Zero App, if the app is unable to identify bike ie. unknown bike.

Odo is running again!

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10
Hi everyone!  It was suggested to me to make a post and thread regarding firmware issues where we can hopefully amass information and experiences to find a permanent resolution.


My experiences are as follows:

   November 2016 - firmware updated at Hollywood Electrics, LA. No issues

   May/June 2017 - recieved letter from Zero corporate suggesting that a firmware update should be considered part of regular maintenance.

   August 2017 - firmware updated at Dayton Motorsports, Vancouver.  Soc and range estimates become unreliable.

   June 8, 2018 - firmware update at Daytona Motorsports, Vancouver.  Odometer stops counting.  Minor improvements noticed but it looks like underlying issues are still present.



I have not noticed any operational problems.  I am told from the logs there are no errors in the battery or any codes generated.

I am also told that Zero cannot roll back to previous versions by tech.  I wonder how they will problem solve this ODO problem without being able roll back.vOv

So some of the INFO that matters:

                      These problems are observed in BMS firmware REV 39+ for 2014-2016
                                                                                                               REV 17+ for 2017-2018


                       I could have reworded this more accurately as , the last stable BMS firmware observed are REV 38 for 2014-2016 and REV 16 for 2017-2018


MBB is unaffected or irrelevant.   SOURCE: DIGINOW

Primarily posted to provide information for the community. 

Input, experiences, tips or corrections welcome!

Current resolution for myself would be a BMS firmware rollback to REV 38.  *I hope*😁. It is possible ODO is not firmware related... Taking the bike to the dealer in an hour.  Will update as more information becomes available.

11
Hi everyone!  It was suggested to me to make a post and thread regarding firmware issues where we can hopefully amass information and experiences to find a permanent resolution.


My experiences are as follows:

   November 2016 - firmware updated at Hollywood Electrics, LA. No issues

   May/June 2017 - recieved letter from Zero corporate suggesting that a firmware update should be considered part of regular maintenance.

   August 2017 - firmware updated at Dayton Motorsports, Vancouver.  Soc and range estimates become unreliable.

   June 8, 2018 - firmware update at Daytona Motorsports, Vancouver.  Odometer stops counting.  Minor improvements noticed but it looks like underlying issues are still present.



I have not noticed any operational problems.  I am told from the logs there are no errors in the battery or any codes generated.

I am also told that Zero cannot roll back to previous versions by tech.  I wonder how they will problem solve this ODO problem without being able roll back.vOv

So some of the INFO that matters:

                      These problems are observed in BMS firmware REV 39+ for 2014-2016
                                                                                                               REV 17+ for 2017-2018


                       I could have reworded this more accurately as , the last stable BMS firmware observed are REV 38 for 2014-2016 and REV 16 for 2017-2018


MBB is unaffected or irrelevant.   SOURCE: DIGINOW

Primarily posted to provide information for the community. 

Input, experiences, tips or corrections welcome!

Current resolution for myself would be a BMS firmware rollback to REV 38.  *I hope*[emoji16]. It is possible ODO is not firmware related... Taking the bike to the dealer in an hour.  Will update as more information becomes available.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


12
Hi everyone!  It was suggested to me to make a post and thread regarding firmware issues where we can hopefully amass information and experiences to find a permanent resolution.


My experiences are as follows:

   November 2016 - firmware updated at Hollywood Electrics, LA. No issues

   May/June 2017 - recieved letter from Zero corporate suggesting that a firmware update should be considered part of regular maintenance.

   August 2017 - firmware updated at Dayton Motorsports, Vancouver.  Soc and range estimates become unreliable.

   June 8, 2018 - firmware update at Daytona Motorsports, Vancouver.  Odometer stops counting.  Minor improvements noticed but it looks like underlying issues are still present.



I have not noticed any operational problems.  I am told from the logs there are no errors in the battery or any codes generated.

I am also told that Zero cannot roll back to previous versions by tech.  I wonder how they will problem solve this ODO problem without being able roll back.vOv

So some of the INFO that matters:

                      These problems are observed in BMS firmware REV 39+ for 2014-2016
                                                                                                               REV 17+ for 2017-2018


                       I could have reworded this more accurately as , the last stable BMS firmware observed are REV 38 for 2014-2016 and REV 16 for 2017-2018


MBB is unaffected or irrelevant.   SOURCE: DIGINOW

Primarily posted to provide information for the community. 

Input, experiences, tips or corrections welcome!

Current resolution for myself would be a BMS firmware rollback to REV 38.  *I hope*[emoji16]. It is possible ODO is not firmware related... Taking the bike to the dealer in an hour.  Will update as more information becomes available.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


13
Hi everyone!  It was suggested to me to make a post and thread regarding firmware issues where we can hopefully amass information and experiences to find a permanent resolution.


My experiences are as follows:

   November 2016 - firmware updated at Hollywood Electrics, LA. No issues

   May/June 2017 - recieved letter from Zero corporate suggesting that a firmware update should be considered part of regular maintenance.

   August 2017 - firmware updated at Dayton Motorsports, Vancouver.  Soc and range estimates become unreliable.

   June 8, 2018 - firmware update at Daytona Motorsports, Vancouver.  Odometer stops counting.  Minor improvements noticed but it looks like underlying issues are still present.



I have not noticed any operational problems.  I am told from the logs there are no errors in the battery or any codes generated.

I am also told that Zero cannot roll back to previous versions by tech.  I wonder how they will problem solve this ODO problem without being able roll back.vOv

So some of the INFO that matters:

                      These problems are observed in BMS firmware REV 39+ for 2014-2016
                                                                                                               REV 17+ for 2017-2018


                       I could have reworded this more accurately as , the last stable BMS firmware observed are REV 38 for 2014-2016 and REV 16 for 2017-2018


MBB is unaffected or irrelevant.   SOURCE: DIGINOW

Primarily posted to provide information for the community. 

Input, experiences, tips or corrections welcome!

Current resolution for myself would be a BMS firmware rollback to REV 38.  *I hope*[emoji16]. It is possible ODO is not firmware related... Taking the bike to the dealer in an hour.  Will update as more information becomes available.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


14
Hi everyone!  It was suggested to me to make a post and thread regarding firmware issues where we can hopefully amass information and experiences to find a permanent resolution.


My experiences are as follows:

   November 2016 - firmware updated at Hollywood Electrics, LA. No issues

   May/June 2017 - recieved letter from Zero corporate suggesting that a firmware update should be considered part of regular maintenance.

   August 2017 - firmware updated at Dayton Motorsports, Vancouver.  Soc and range estimates become unreliable.

   June 8, 2018 - firmware update at Daytona Motorsports, Vancouver.  Odometer stops counting.  Minor improvements noticed but it looks like underlying issues are still present.



I have not noticed any operational problems.  I am told from the logs there are no errors in the battery or any codes generated.

I am also told that Zero cannot roll back to previous versions by tech.  I wonder how they will problem solve this ODO problem without being able roll back.vOv

So some of the INFO that matters:

                      These problems are observed in BMS firmware REV 39+ for 2014-2016
                                                                                                               REV 17+ for 2017-2018


                       I could have reworded this more accurately as , the last stable BMS firmware observed are REV 38 for 2014-2016 and REV 16 for 2017-2018


MBB is unaffected or irrelevant.   SOURCE: DIGINOW

Primarily posted to provide information for the community. 

Input, experiences, tips or corrections welcome!

Current resolution for myself would be a BMS firmware rollback to REV 38.  *I hope*[emoji16]. It is possible ODO is not firmware related... Taking the bike to the dealer in an hour.  Will update as more information becomes available.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


15
Hi everyone!  It was suggested to me to make a post and thread regarding firmware issues where we can hopefully amass information and experiences to find a permanent resolution.


My experiences are as follows:

   November 2016 - firmware updated at Hollywood Electrics, LA. No issues

   May/June 2017 - recieved letter from Zero corporate suggesting that a firmware update should be considered part of regular maintenance.

   August 2017 - firmware updated at Dayton Motorsports, Vancouver.  Soc and range estimates become unreliable.

   June 8, 2018 - firmware update at Daytona Motorsports, Vancouver.  Odometer stops counting.  Minor improvements noticed but it looks like underlying issues are still present.



I have not noticed any operational problems.  I am told from the logs there are no errors in the battery or any codes generated.

I am also told that Zero cannot roll back to previous versions by tech.  I wonder how they will problem solve this ODO problem without being able roll back.vOv

So some of the INFO that matters:

                      These problems are observed in BMS firmware REV 39+ for 2014-2016
                                                                                                               REV 17+ for 2017-2018


                       I could have reworded this more accurately as , the last stable BMS firmware observed are REV 38 for 2014-2016 and REV 16 for 2017-2018


MBB is unaffected or irrelevant.   SOURCE: DIGINOW

Primarily posted to provide information for the community. 

Input, experiences, tips or corrections welcome!

Current resolution for myself would be a BMS firmware rollback to REV 38.  *I hope*[emoji16]. It is possible ODO is not firmware related... Taking the bike to the dealer in an hour.  Will update as more information becomes available.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


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