ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: DonTom on April 26, 2024, 06:31:16 AM
-
I just heard that A&S, an Energica dealer close to me, has given up, or soon will give up, on trying to unload Energica motorcycles. Because of very poor sales.
I will take a ride down there on my Energica Experia tomorrow. It needs the FW update. I wonder if they will still be able to do such or if I will have to go all the way to Livermore.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
I am starting to get the impression that the initial rush of consumers to buy EVs is rapidly petering out. EV enthusiasts have already bought theirs and paid for the privilege while the rest of the car buying public are still happy with their IC vehicles - and that goes double and triple for motorcycle enthusiasts that are not being pressured by the government to save the environment by buying a two-wheel EV. And, of course, high loan interest rates have put a stake through the heart of EV sales at all levels. Last year I sold my BMW R1200RS and the first fellow who came to see it said that he couldn't afford to buy it at the price that I wanted because the interest rate that his bank wanted to charge him for a personal loan was just too burdensome.
Plus, it doesn't help that Zero and especially Energica are charging premium money for their motorcycles. Zero has been dropping their MSRP lately, but $20K is still a tough row to hoe when you can buy an ICE motorcycle with more bells and whistles and a better dealer network for considerably less money. If you are a big, volume, dealer like A&S, with a huge overhead operation, selling a few Energicas once in a while likely just doesn't pencil out for them. No doubt they are making a lot more money selling BMWs, Triumphs, Ducatis and at the lower end, Royal Enfields. I might also add that A&S had their Energicas stuck in a corner with a few used bikes, while all of their other brands have their own dedicated showrooms, unlike CalMoto, which has a dedicated section of their shop devoted to only the Engergica brand and their salespeople have always seemed to enthusiastically supported them.
Finally, having both the state and federal governments ending rebates for electric motorcycles, also makes them a tough sell nowadays. :(
-
yeah, talk to any dealer and they will say they keep the lights on by selling used bikes and service.
The myth that EV batteries only last 5 years makes it tough to sell a used EV Moto, so there goes that revenue stream. And EV bikes require so much less maintenance that there is very little incentive to keep that revenue stream open.
I could see a direct sales model like Tesla or Vinfast coming to EV Motos sooner than later. Keeping a dealer network adds the overhead of a whole other business to cover in the profit margins. So Electric motos are a premium priced luxury for most people.
I predict the first sign will be over-the-air update capabilities. If 2025 Energicas have that, then I suspect dealers will quickly line up to drop them.
-
It's a shame to hear that, but Roseville was probably never the right place to sell EM's. Just count the number of Harleys, pickup trucks, and big SUV's on the road in that town. Somewhere near Midtown Sacramento might have been more successful.
We shouldn't get too doom and gloomy, though. Energica has pre-sold every Experia they've produced to date AFAIK. They can't keep up with demand, even priced above $20k. The recent news reports of EV cars sitting on lots ignored the fact that sales were still up year-over-year, just not as much as forecasted so manufacturers over-produced them and it took longer to clear the inventory. EM's and EV's in general are still a fast-growing segment, even if the charging network is rotting and there haven't been any exciting new advances for several years.
In the premium EM market, I think growth isn't faster because of range concerns. To most of us, the Experia's 130 mile highway range is a big leap forward, but the average EV-curious motorcyclist wants to hear something more like 180 before they start to become interested. Enough to visit someone in a nearby city and come back without having to worry about a charging stop. And once you get those people, that's still only a small segment of the market, because now you have to get the price-conscious buyers, which is another ~5 years away after that. So EM's aren't going to replace ICE motos anytime soon, but I still expect strong growth in sales and capabilities over the decade.
-
The problem in my neck of the woods is lack of charging infrastructure. Many I ride with would buy an Energica for the performance thrill, but there is just too few places to charge.
These are folks with several bikes in the stable, and with means to buy more, but they will pick up an RSV4 Factory because they can actually ride it all day long.
If there was a fastcharger at every gas station, sales would skyrocket.
My Rebelle is a stand alone mission specific machine for a daily 70 mile spirited recreational loop. I love it. But the limit of use is the lack of charging availability.
-
The problem in my neck of the woods is lack of charging infrastructure. Many I ride with would buy an Energica for the performance thrill, but there is just too few places to charge.
These are folks with several bikes in the stable, and with means to buy more, but they will pick up an RSV4 Factory because they can actually ride it all day long.
If there was a fastcharger at every gas station, sales would skyrocket.
My Rebelle is a stand alone mission specific machine for a daily 70 mile spirited recreational loop. I love it. But the limit of use is the lack of charging availability.
Exactly this...I have the same issue, no fast charging stations accessible withing normal riding distance from my home, there are a couple close by but they're not much use when I want to travel outside of my local area. I mainly use my Experia to commute to work...kind of a waste really as it makes an ideal touring machine if I could charge somewhere whilst travelling from one city to another. We have vast distances between towns let alone cities.
Smithy.
-
I just now came back from A&S.
I am now at the Denny's in News Casle for a late lunch on the way home to Auburn.
Anyway, A&S has NO MORE Energicas and even worse, they cannot do any service on them other than stuff such as tires which they can do on any brand. Energica took back their FW updating cable and other stuff, so now to get my FW update, I will have to go to Livermore, which is 130 miles/210km from my Auburn house.
-Don- New Castle, CA
-
That's kind of funny, I was driving home from the race track today and someone was trailering 2 Experia's behind what looked like a converted like cargo van. They were heading towards jax, but we were a ways out so they could have turned off at any spot to go elsewhere. Really wish I knew where they were from as it'd be nice to find other E bikers around.
The charging does make it a pain for all the EV's, and the economy going to shit and talks of a world war / civil war absolutely are NOT helping any sales or service.
You mentioned going to a tesla type sales model, where you order it direct and kind of cut out the dealers but they will still need service, software updates, some warranty work, stuff like that. Still going to need someone to do maintenance on them. Tesla has shops all over to fix stuff don't they? Energica not so much, and it's appearing the rest of the e bikers, not so much either anymore.
Hopefully things settle down soon because right now nobody can really afford big loans, the banks are NOT giving out loans to less than almost perfect people for what they essentially will consider to be a 'toy'. and the ones who can afford them, have already got their toys or are running scared too to see what is going to happen.
All this shit, China war, EMP taking down the grid,frying your bike / car. bla bla woof...that shit adds up to drive people away.
Aaron
-
I just now came back from A&S.
I am now at the Denny's in News Casle for a late lunch on the way home to Auburn.
Anyway, A&S has NO MORE Energicas and even worse, they cannot do any service on them other than stuff such as tires which they can do on any brand. Energica took back their FW updating cable and other stuff, so now to get my FW update, I will have to go to Livermore, which is 130 miles/210km from my Auburn house.
-Don- New Castle, CA
That sucks! I am sorry to hear that. :(
-
What color was the van?
-
It was an odd brown color, like a tan, not UPS tan a bit lighter.
Aaron
-
What I would like to know is who I should blame, Energica or A&S? I purchased the bike at A&S, but they say Energica took back their FW updating equipment so Energicas can no longer be serviced at A&S cycles. That's pretty bad that A&S cannot service a new bike they sold me 13 months ago with a simple FW update.
Is Energica's service going way downhill?
BTW, in case anybody was wondering why I waited so long, there were two reasons. At first, the bike was in Reno and a ton of snow over the summit so I could not get the bike here.
By the time the weather got better, my best friend in Reno was having serious health problems and I had to help him out in many ways. He died last week, so now I have a lot more free time to stay here in Auburn and get things like the bike FW done--I thought.
Next closeted is Livermore, CA. But I hear they cannot do a FW update while waiting, so that involves two people for a 270-mile (435 km) round trip.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Blame yourself for a refreshing change. People told you to get it done and you kept making excuses, now it bit you in the ass.
Aaron
-
Don, just have it delivered up and back. You clearly have the money.
As an employee Morgan should know, how does the Energica-dealer setup work? Does the dealer just give them floor space and get a cut of the sale price or do they pay a portion up front and own/finance the bikes?
Even if the bikes weren't selling they should have tried to keep them as a service center since they had to have had techs that knew the bikes.
Now might be a good time to point out I haven't seen a single 2024 listing for Energica or Zero on Cycle Trader and it's almost Summer.
-
Isn't Zero pretty much Divesting from the US? Didn't they move their 'focus' to India or somewhere like that?
As for Energica, I think they pretty much have the bikes currently where they want them, and were spending more on playing catch up with all the Experia orders, and not so much on further R and D. I mean why make cosmetic changes mostly (besides for the few sales to those who just GOT TO have the newest, fanciest) when the original ones are not selling well.
It's not like E bike sales just honestly fell off a cliff, they seen the cooling / souring coming for a bit, they meaning ALL the companies, and Energica not being one of the ones belly up to the US Govt corrupt feeding trough decided to hold back for a year or so to see where the market is going and not throw good money after bad money? Honestly, the EGO, and Ribelle are pretty fuggin awesome as they are, will kick the shit out of most anything else out there already. They got into the cruising side with the Experia. Are in the classic / semi cruising side with the SS9, they pretty much got most the bases covered.
To be honest though, and perhaps I just live in a part of the country where you just don't see any but, I never really see any advertising for them. Even back when I got mine a year or so ago, I kind of stumbled upon it via a generic google search, it's not like something really jumped out at me or I seen a flyer and said Oh Boy!! Don't know anymore now that the entire E vehicle market, except for maybe bicycles, is very suppressed if it'd help much, I mean even Tesla is laying folks off, and the other Big 3 have said, now wait a minute, lets take another look at this and severely curtailed their plans for massive e roll outs over the next few years.
I hope they can weather the storm, but to be honest, they do most their work inhouse right? That right there gives them a lot of strength that the others may not necessarily have. (So why can't you stamp out some centerstands?). Also the fact that you CAN charge the thing just about everywhere, including quickly, is really a strong selling point too. Tesla you HAVE to goto a tesla station or have one of THEIR chargers, the other vehicles you HAVE to have one of their / a CCS charger, an Energica, for a 40 dollar charger, yes they ARE that cheap some places, you can find a plug at a coffee house, just a regular run of the mill wall plug, and charge the thing, you are NOT really going to get stranded unless it's a total power blackout. Even then a cheap genrator, or a solar panel and a cheap inverter and you are right back in business if you really must.
I think there is a solid market for E vehicles, and well, it IS coming, but let them get the infrastructure part sorted out first, and charging stations out, and possibly newer tech / methods that don't take an hour and a half to charge for just another 300 miles and I bet they start selling a lot faster again. THAT right there I think is the biggest killer of the E renaissance is the fear of stranding due to no charging close by for many.
Let's not also forget, battery tech, because currently, electric vehicles and colder climates just really is NOT a thing yet. Maybe super caps or some hybrid will fix this? There's a lot of work to be done yet, and it's not all just new tech / innovation type either.
Aaron
-
Sometime around 2016 or 2017, my multi-brand Zero dealer, Mission Motors, in Daly City, CA, folded. What finally drove them out of business is that one year they sold more Zeros than Yamahas and Yamaha got really pissed off (something on the order of their heads exploding). Yamaha unilaterally canceled the shop's franchise and then there started a series of expensive lawyer fights. The dealer claimed that in 2016 Yamaha sent them bikes that their customers didn't want to buy. Eventually, the shop owner couldn't take the legal stress and lawyer fees any more. All she wanted to do was to sell motorcycles. Eventually she closed the business, sold the property to a Dollar Store and retired with a bunch of cash in her pocket (I assume - she was at a prime retail location).
My point in telling this story is maybe A&S wasn't selling enough bikes to meet Energica's requirements and that is why they (apparently) canceled their franchise agreement. ???
-
Sometime around 2016 or 2017, my multi-brand Zero dealer, Mission Motors, in Daly City, CA, folded.
I used to go there often, mainly for parts for my 1984 Venture. They didn't sell Zeros back then, but that was many years ago and I don't think Zero back then even existed.
But yeah, the Energicas were not selling at all in the Roseville area. I bought one and they shipped oen up north since then. So they sold two Energicas in the year and that was all.
I was told it was a mutual agreement between A&S and Energica for A&S to no longer try to unload Energicas.
BTW, I was once told their BMW electric scooter was a fairly hot seller there at A&S.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Here is a photo of the price tag for a BMW CE4 scooter that I took at A&S about a year ago. I like the 5-year emissions warranty. Nice touch. ;)
-
Why isn't their emissions warranty for 100 years?
BTW, Tesla has a section for emissions. You select it for the type of fart sound (https://electrek.co/2021/01/19/how-to-make-your-tesla-fart/) you want at any seat.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
What I would like to know is who I should blame, Energica or A&S? I purchased the bike at A&S, but they say Energica took back their FW updating equipment so Energicas can no longer be serviced at A&S cycles. That's pretty bad that A&S cannot service a new bike they sold me 13 months ago with a simple FW update.
Is Energica's service going way downhill?
BTW, in case anybody was wondering why I waited so long, there were two reasons. At first, the bike was in Reno and a ton of snow over the summit so I could not get the bike here.
By the time the weather got better, my best friend in Reno was having serious health problems and I had to help him out in many ways. He died last week, so now I have a lot more free time to stay here in Auburn and get things like the bike FW done--I thought.
Next closeted is Livermore, CA. But I hear they cannot do a FW update while waiting, so that involves two people for a 270-mile (435 km) round trip.
-Don- Auburn, CA
When I got my initial 500 mile service at Calmoto in Livermore a few months ago, they did the FW update as well. It took about 3-4 hours. I brought a book and waited across the highway at Starbucks.
-
When I got my initial 500 mile service at Calmoto in Livermore a few months ago, they did the FW update as well. It took about 3-4 hours. I brought a book and waited across the highway at Starbucks.
Perhaps I will give them a call in a couple of days and see if I can take a ride to Livermore to get it done while I wait.
I have ridden down there on my 11.7 KWH SS9 before. It should be an even easier ride on my Experia.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
I dropped in on the service center in south san francisc with a box of donuts for my FW43. I had already gotten the 600 mile service at CalMoto a few weeks before. I wanna say it was about an hour.
But I live about 25 miles away, so if they hadnt gotten to it i would only be put out a box of donuts and an hour round trip.
Im sure they are all about Stefano Mesa right now and supporting Tytler's Cycle, but maybe you can get an appointment there?
-
I dropped in on the service center in south san francisc with a box of donuts for my FW43. I had already gotten the 600 mile service at CalMoto a few weeks before. I wanna say it was about an hour.
But I live about 25 miles away, so if they hadnt gotten to it i would only be put out a box of donuts and an hour round trip.
Im sure they are all about Stefano Mesa right now and supporting Tytler's Cycle, but maybe you can get an appointment there?
I already got my update on my Experia to 43. I went back to my Reno house the other day and I had a message on the LL there from A&S that they discovered they had another cable because of another Energica they already had in the shop. They also told me they would only have the cable for a few more days. So I rushed back here to Auburn within a half hour of getting to Reno. The next day (Friday) I had to get the Experia there and did. Snow was coming to the summit the next day (yesterday). I now have my Experia back here in Auburn with the 43 update. BTW, I still got the "key not in range" message on the way home with the new 43 update with the key fob in my right pocket. But I now see the heated handgrips on the main menu as well as it saying " FW version 43" in "about". So the update was completed. The update gives no clues on how long it will take, shows no percentages done or anything like that. Took a couple of hours or so, I was able to wait for it.
I now have my 2020 Esse Esse 9 there for the same update. I could not pick it up yesterday in the pouring rain, so I pick it up on Tuesday.
After I get some miles on my Experia and try a fast charger in Yuba City, CA that did not work at all before the update, I will do a new comparison between my Zero DSR/X and Enegica Experia. Even though it was a little disappointing to see the "FOB not in range" message just after the update on the way home, I will need to see if all the other countless bugs I had with my Experia are now gone which will take at least a few hundred miles to know for sure.
I don't really care much if it works better with the Magic Docks because there are NONE in the entire state of NV and here in CA they are all in useless locations next to real CCS. But I will try it out in Placerville anyway, as before it would only charge there at around 8 KW.
-Don- Auburn, CA