ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: xmjsilverx on March 10, 2015, 08:29:18 AM
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I have been interested in the Zero motorcycles for a while now and may be buying one here in a month or 2. I have a few questions. First is the price. Are dealers willing to negotiate prices with you or are we stuck paying what the MSRP states it is? If they do negotiate, what is a reasonable price to pay? I don't have any dealers closer than about 4 hours away. Is this going to be a problem if something goes wrong with the bike? The site states that the bike will get 77 miles highway driving at 70 mph. What kind of real world range should I expect going 75-80 mph on rolling hill type highway? (I weigh about 140lbs). Are there any other questions I should be asking as a first time Zero buyer?
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- Dealers will not negotiate with a niche model like a Zero, unless it is a demo model or left over from the previous year.
- 4 hours away is definitely going to be a problem unless you have a truck to haul the bike there. The Zero does not have that kind of range. Servicing is not common, but problems can happen.
- You seem pretty lightweight, so I would trust the stated range figures. These might change if you add cases, but a windscreen often helps, too.
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Don't forget that your range will decrease if you have to ride into a strong wind, especially if you are attempting to travel at freeway speeds. The speed that you are traveling has the greatest effect on your range. As an example: my 2014 S with Power Tank, will travel about 90 miles at 60 mph, 150 miles at 45 mph and probably 200 miles at 30 mph. If you really want to watch the battery drain fast try keeping your speed at 75-80 mph. My guess is that a 2015 Zero S 12.5 with the Power Tank would be hard pressed to go 77 miles at those speeds. Also, your speed will likely drop and you will not be able to maintain 75 mph as you get to around 20% battery charge. Once your battery pack is drained it will take about 15 hours to fully recharge (for the Power Tank version) and that will affect your interest in exploring the maximum performance of the battery pack. ::)
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If you are riding 75-80 MPH on rolling hills I doubt you will get much over 60 miles if that. Rolling hills definitely have an effect on range. As Richard said so do headwinds so know the weather conditions before you ride. Or have a back-up plan if you run out of power. My 2014 SR once it gets below 10% SOC does not act the same each time. I have had full power at 6% SOC and able to do 55 MPH . I have also had the power cut at 9% and could barely stay at 45 MPH and it rapidly dropped to 35 MPH.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. You have definitely given me some things to think about (unfortunately all bad news). It looks like there is a new dealer that is now only 2 hours away but obviously the bike won't make it there and would have to be trailered. I also had no idea there would be loss of power around 10-20% SOC. We lease a Nissan Leaf and I have never noticed this at all. Once I get below 10% though I rarely try to romp on it because I am just trying to make it home. I live 25 miles from work and traffic typically moves at about 75 mph so I want to make sure I can make it to work an home without worries. The 60 mile range doesn't sound good because I will definitely be below 20% before I get home and I can't be doing 35mph on the highway. These things are discouraging but I think I would really love the bike. I guess I will still do a demo ride here soon.
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It looks like there is a new dealer that is now only 2 hours away but obviously the bike won't make it there and would have to be trailered.
It's true you'd have to trailer the bike for service, but how often would that happen? Don't make more of a deal out of this than it actually is.
I also had no idea there would be loss of power around 10-20% SOC. I live 25 miles from work and traffic typically moves at about 75 mph so I want to make sure I can make it to work an home without worries. The 60 mile range doesn't sound good because I will definitely be below 20% before I get home and I can't be doing 35mph on the highway.
Again, don't make a mountain out of a molehill. My daily round-trip commute is ~52 miles essentially all freeway, I'm a heavy guy, I don't have the power tank, and I rarely get home with less than 30% charge remaining. I do keep my speed under 75 mph, and I've added a windscreen which helped quite a bit. I'd suggest you do the same and you'll have no worries at all.
These things are discouraging but I think I would really love the bike. I guess I will still do a demo ride here soon.
You just gave yourself the best advice you could hope for. Ride the bike, realize that your "mission parameters" are well within the bike's capabilities, and you'll wind up buying one. People make TOO much out of the whole "range anxiety" thing! Don't make problems where none exist, and be aware that solutions exist even if your usage model wasn't well within the bike's capabilities.
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Doug, thanks for the little pep talk. I am all to familiar with range anxiety driving my wife's leaf. The range anxiety is always worse when you have never even driven that vehicle on your daily course, so I really have no idea how it will perform except for what you all tell me. The issue for me is I want this bike as a fun vehicle. Not something I have to keep at 65 on the highway and never get to romp on it. That's all well and good for me when I am driving the leaf because it serves it's exact purpose, but this bike is supposed to be fun. I will still demo one and I am sure I will fall in love with it because I even love the leaf.
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The issue for me is I want this bike as a fun vehicle. Not something I have to keep at 65 on the highway and never get to romp on it. That's all well and good for me when I am driving the leaf because it serves it's exact purpose, but this bike is supposed to be fun.
Well, for me, I don't look to the daily commute to get my ya-yas out. Monday through Friday, I ride to work....though don't think I never twist the throttle a ways back! Accelerating hard has almost NO adverse impact on range. It's speed that affects range, not acceleration. You can tap into that 3.3-second 0-60 time over and over again and not have much effect on your range, so long as your top speed stays reasonable. Laugh at the tin-can drivers around you as you have some fun getting to work, save a ton of money and get to work faster.
And then there's the weekends. This bike is the absolute best of all possible worlds. It's the CHEAPEST, most environmentally friendly way of getting to work (except for riding a bicycle or walking), it's a total blast to ride under any circumstances, and then you get to show the Corvette-driving pretenders what's what on the weekend.
Go ride it. Just get on it. Experience it. Believe it...it'll change your life. It's that kind of machine.
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If you have the money find a fast charging solution for occasional situations where you need to do more distance. Ask Hollywood electric or get Elcon chargers.
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Thanks again for the reply guys. I just demoed the 2015 SR today and placed an order for one. Hopefully I'll be on it in a week or so. The weather wasn't awesome but the bike was and almost everything I hoped it would be. I was disappointed with the tank storage area. I would have liked a hard covered, maybe even locking lid instead of what seems like a bag and lid jammed in there. I have a post looking for some after-market options to the few things I didn't find awesome about it.
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Your commute is the perfect distance. I have a 2015 SR with a 16 mile round-trip commute (wish it was longer). You will get home every day with 20-30% SOC left. Perfect. If you find you need more, there's the power tank option that can be added later (and get a better use from that area... I keep tire repair kit/compressor in there). Highly recommend Givi top box for storage.
Enjoy your new bike when it arrives!
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I rode my 2015 SR (with PowerTank) 73 miles at speeds between 70 and 80 MPH - when I got home I had 0% on the fuel gauge, but I never lost power. I actually rode the last few blocks after the fuel gauge read 0% - I was expecting some sort of power loss, or flashing gauge, but didn't have any problems at all.
It's my understanding that there is no 'reserve' capacity on the Zero bikes (from reading others' experiences), but maybe Zero did something different for the 2015 bikes?
I'll have to ride it down to 0% again and keep riding until I run out of power to test this theory.
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That was true with my power tank 2014 S. When the "0" popped up there was nothing left in the tank and you would be pushing.
My guess is that for 2015 Zero has reprogrammed their "fuel gauge" to provide a little cushion for those that tend to explore the limits of range. That is what they did with the 2012 models. When the last bar disappeared, you still could go another 10 miles at slow speed while waiting for the bike to finally die. That would give you time to think about the error of your ways. ;)
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I have a 2014 SR and I have found that once you get below 10% SOC the performance varies. I have had full power at 6% SOC. Have also had power cut at 9% and could hardly maintain 35 MPH. But I have also ran it down to 0% SOC and there is no more!
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I'm not sure about the programming in the 2014-15's but on the 2013's they have a variable deep down inside the settings called Range Pessimism, which is set to 8%
I could be wrong about this, but once you are under that variable the battery protection could cut the power out without warning at any point.
These days I think long and hard before running my bike under the 20% mark, I consider that better for the long term health of the battery pack.
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I'm not sure about the programming in the 2014-15's but on the 2013's they have a variable deep down inside the settings called Range Pessimism, which is set to 8%
I could be wrong about this, but once you are under that variable the battery protection could cut the power out without warning at any point.
These days I think long and hard before running my bike under the 20% mark, I consider that better for the long term health of the battery pack.
Same here. :)
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fuelgaugepes - Fuel Gauge Pessimism : 8%
reserve_sw - Use a reserve partition : No
reserve_pct - Reserve partition : 33%
First one is the setting mentioned.
Are the second two the "limp home" feature / setting?
I have had my bike down to 12% so far, should really just keep a voltmeter hooked up to know what you have left I guess.
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Either that, or onboard memory settings for the mbb going by the partition reference.
As for the voltmeter, I imagine that if you packet sniffed the canbus line you'd find the voltage being sent along with a bunch of other useful info.
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I have had my bike down to 12% so far, should really just keep a voltmeter hooked up to know what you have left I guess.
Mount up your smartphone and use the app, it shows you actual battery voltage. My suspicion is that you'd find that information less informative than the SoC indicator Zero provides, however.