ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: WoadRaider on June 05, 2018, 06:13:12 AM
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I'm asking anyone who has or has had a 2013 Zero, or anyone with a 2014/2015 (please note), to confirm whether or not they feel a notching/notchy sensation or bumpiness when manually pushing their bike at low speed (below 5mph). It would be helpful to note whether you feel the sensation only in one direction, or if turning the bike on/off makes any difference, and the intensity of the feeling as well. I have an S Model and I can feel the intermittent resistance a little better when sitting on the bike and pushing it backwards. Zero said this is normal for the 2013 model, so I just want to see if anyone else can confirm.
Supposedly it's because: "The magnets inside the motors are designed to spin when potential is applied which makes sense why it is harder to spin when no power is applied".
Thanks!
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I have resistance with the bike on and fairly smooth with it off, with it on the resistance is like a bit of a pulse
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Hey Ndm, thanks for responding.
Just so I'm sure I understand what you're saying: Your bike moves smoothly when you push it with the power off. But when you push it with the power on there is a pulsing resistance matching the description I gave? How noticeable is it? Do you have to exert noticeably more effort to move it?
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No problem, I may not be the best reference now that I think about it, my motor was replaced in 2015 and 2016 batteries were done, I don't think I have a dramatic difference between on/off after trying it again this morning, just a slight pulse feeling when backing it up powered on
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No problem, I may not be the best reference now that I think about it, my motor was replaced in 2015
Humm, yeah it would be best to hear from someone with the original motor, but as long as it's the same type of motor it should work the same.
I don't think I have a dramatic difference between on/off after trying it again this morning, just a slight pulse feeling when backing it up powered on
Ha, that makes it less clear. So are you saying the pulsing is only felt when "backing the bike up with the power on"? or Is it about the same in both directions regardless of whether or not the bike is on? Do you have to exert noticeably more effort to move the bike at 1-3 mph compared to when pushing it at ~4-5 mph?
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I suppose this question can also be answered by previous 2013 owners who upgraded to a newer model, if they happen to remember noticing a difference between pushing the 2013 at slow speeds and pushing their newer model at slow speeds.
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Bump
Anyone able to answer this question?
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My MY13 SR with MY14 SR motor would feel the way you describe when pushing the bike when powered off. I never went too fast though as the pushing typically only happened in my garage.
I haven't ridden my MY13 for months since I traded it in for a MY17 though so I cannot test for you. On a side note if you have a MY13 battery get it upgraded asap.
That said ... if you are mechanically inclined I would check your motor axle for sloppiness ... that is remove belt tension then see if the axle can be moved side to side laterally in relation to the case of the motor and if so how much.
Normally if this is the case though a sound will accompany the "notching" and will be felt and heard at lower speeds. (I had such an issue with the bearings of my old race modified MY13 motor)
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I have resistance with the bike on and fairly smooth with it off, with it on the resistance is like a bit of a pulse
Mine too. Maybe a more resistance with the thing switched on and I'm reversing.
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check your motor axle for sloppiness ... that is remove belt tension then see if the axle can be moved side to side laterally in relation to the case of the motor and if so how much.
Great idea, thanks Burton, come to think of it I seem to remember some minor play the last time I had the belt off and was manually moving the gear. I'll have to check again. I'm not sure there's ever been a sound associated with it when the bike is turned off.
Mine too. Maybe a more resistance with the thing switched on and I'm reversing.
So you don't feel any real resistance when it's off (you wouldn't really notice it compared to another bike) but you do feel some when it's on?
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Hi 13 DS owner here.
First Zero says don't (or try not to) push the bike back with the bike on. I think it messes with the motor timing but that may not be the right or only reason.
I back mine out of the garage and point it toward the road before I key it on, just a habit, and I haven't had any problems with the motor.
I never felt it was harder to push when off, I just never heard or felt the motor engage the WHRRRing sound like when it's on.
Some other things to look at.
Warped rotor or sticking brake pads from a dirty caliper piston.
Wheel bearings that are shot and cause a grinding feeling and will show lateral wheel movement on the rear axle.
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Hi 13 DS owner here.
First Zero says don't (or try not to) push the bike back with the bike on. I think it messes with the motor timing but that may not be the right or only reason.
I back mine out of the garage and point it toward the road before I key it on, just a habit, and I haven't had any problems with the motor.
I never felt it was harder to push when off, I just never heard or felt the motor engage the WHRRRing sound like when it's on.
Some other things to look at.
Warped rotor or sticking brake pads from a dirty caliper piston.
Wheel bearings that are shot and cause a grinding feeling and will show lateral wheel movement on the rear axle.
I also never push my Zero around, forwards or backwards, with the ignition on or the bike charging. It just doesn't feel right. ???
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Zero says don't (or try not to) push the bike back with the bike on. I think it messes with the motor timing but that may not be the right or only reason.
Good to know, I wonder if I've heard that before. Although this is somewhat unavoidable as there are times where it would be annoying to have to turn the bike on and off in order to back up a bit (say if you just stopped a few feet too far forward).
I back mine out of the garage and point it toward the road before I key it on, just a habit, and I haven't had any problems with the motor.
Me too, I always have myself set up and ready to go (forward) before I key on.
I never felt it was harder to push when off, I just never heard or felt the motor engage the WHRRRing sound like when it's on.
OK good, it looks like we have our first solid/clear answer. So you've never felt anything beyond the slightest detectable intermittent resistance when pushing the bike (either on or off)? Did you need to check to be sure?
Warped rotor or sticking brake pads from a dirty caliper piston.
Wheel bearings that are shot and cause a grinding feeling and will show lateral wheel movement on the rear axle.
I've already determined that the issue stems from the motor or further up in the electrical/electronic systems.
I also never push my Zero around, forwards or backwards, with the ignition on or the bike charging. It just doesn't feel right. ???
Well, if the bike is already on (I have already been going foward with power) it feels more awkward to turn the bike off in order to back it up a bit, particularly if I'm not about to turn if off anyway, rarely happens though.
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This thread is somewhat relevant: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6253.msg47911#msg47911
I used to be somewhat nervous about reversing with the key on, but no longer.
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I finally remembered to test this. with ignition off, a mild pulsing, both forward and backward (same as mentioned above). And with key turned on, the pulsing plus a vaguely metallic whir, both forward and back (again, as mentioned above). I have zero worry doing this (no pun intended).
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This thread is somewhat relevant: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6253.msg47911#msg47911
I used to be somewhat nervous about reversing with the key on, but no longer.
Good memory quixotic! I'd actually seen that thread before; but I don't think I read it carefully & definitely didn't realize it answered my question.
I finally remembered to test this. with ignition off, a mild pulsing, both forward and backward (same as mentioned above). And with key turned on, the pulsing plus a vaguely metallic whir, both forward and back (again, as mentioned above). I have zero worry doing this (no pun intended).
Ok, so that's good news for my motor. But our experience seems to be at odds, depending on how mild your pulsing is, with what was said on the thread you linked to; that we should only feel the resistance when pushing the bike backwards while it is also keyed on.
Just to be extra clear, by pulsing you mean the notchy intermittent resistance to being pushed (both on and off and in either direction) that I've been describing? Is it a strong enough resistance to where you'd notice it if you weren't looking for it?
Thanks!
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My MY13 SR with MY14 SR motor would feel the way you describe when pushing the bike when powered off.
Would you characterize the sensation as fairly weak and barely noticeable or easily noticeable and requiring more effort to push your Zero than other bikes? And do you know if the feeling was the same on/off and in either direction?
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This thread is somewhat relevant: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6253.msg47911#msg47911
I used to be somewhat nervous about reversing with the key on, but no longer.
Good memory quixotic! I'd actually seen that thread before; but I don't think I read it carefully & definitely didn't realize it answered my question.
I finally remembered to test this. with ignition off, a mild pulsing, both forward and backward (same as mentioned above). And with key turned on, the pulsing plus a vaguely metallic whir, both forward and back (again, as mentioned above). I have zero worry doing this (no pun intended).
Ok, so that's good news for my motor. But our experience seems to be at odds, depending on how mild your pulsing is, with what was said on the thread you linked to; that we should only feel the resistance when pushing the bike backwards while it is also keyed on.
Just to be extra clear, by pulsing you mean the notchy intermittent resistance to being pushed (both on and off and in either direction) that I've been describing? Is it a strong enough resistance to where you'd notice it if you weren't looking for it?
Thanks!
It's a very smooth, mild, notchy intermittent resistance. Still noticeable, though. And with the key on, you notice a resistance on top of that which is not notchy, but more like a typical drivetrain resistance.
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It's a very smooth, mild, notchy intermittent resistance. Still noticeable, though. And with the key on, you notice a resistance on top of that which is not notchy, but more like a typical drivetrain resistance.
Interesting. If by "smooth" you mean the pulses/bumps of resistance are evenly spaced apart it sounds like you, more or less, have the same sensation I do (obviously we have no direct way to compare strength). But what's interesting is that you have an additional resistance, with the bike on, that is not notchy. I don't have that. That makes me wonder if the notching you're feeling is something unrelated to the motor (bearings, brakes, belt, etc..) and that when you turn it on you are getting resistance from the motor (notchy or not) that is melding with or being masked by the other resistance.
If I remember right your first comment was in line with the other thread you linked to; in that the only real resistance felt was when pushing the bike backwards when it is keyed on. But upon actually testing your bike you found two separate resistances that are present when moving the bike in either direction; a notching sensation similar to what I feel when the bike is off and on and a steady resistance when it is on. Do you feel they make it harder to move than a new ICE bike in neutral?
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It's a very smooth, mild, notchy intermittent resistance. Still noticeable, though. And with the key on, you notice a resistance on top of that which is not notchy, but more like a typical drivetrain resistance.
Interesting. If by "smooth" you mean the pulses/bumps of resistance are evenly spaced apart it sounds like you, more or less, have the same sensation I do (obviously we have no direct way to compare strength). But what's interesting is that you have an additional resistance, with the bike on, that is not notchy. I don't have that. That makes me wonder if the notching you're feeling is something unrelated to the motor (bearings, brakes, belt, etc..) and that when you turn it on you are getting resistance from the motor (notchy or not) that is melding with or being masked by the other resistance.
If I remember right your first comment was in line with the other thread you linked to; in that the only real resistance felt was when pushing the bike backwards when it is keyed on. But upon actually testing your bike you found two separate resistances that are present when moving the bike in either direction; a notching sensation similar to what I feel when the bike is off and on and a steady resistance when it is on. Do you feel they make it harder to move than a new ICE bike in neutral?
And ICE bike in neutral has no sensation during keyless movement (except that given by the chain). The pulses from the zero are extremely mild sensations. I assume you'd feel the same, or otherwise something would REALLY be wrong with your bike.
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And ICE bike in neutral has no sensation during keyless movement (except that given by the chain).
Right, or if it's not well maintained all sorts of other drag/interference can crop up. To my memory; the additional sensation of a keyed on (running) ICE bike is vibration, not resistance to being pushed.
The pulses from the zero are extremely mild sensations. I assume you'd feel the same, or otherwise something would REALLY be wrong with your bike.
If that's how you characterize the sensation you're feeling I think it's fair to say the resistance on mine is stronger. Strong enough to where I have to exert a decent portion of my strength (I'm not that strong) to get the bike moving (once it's up to ~4-5mph it smooths out). It doesn't seem dangerous, and as far as I can tell there are no other symptoms or drawbacks, but it is annoying.
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And ICE bike in neutral has no sensation during keyless movement (except that given by the chain).
Right, or if it's not well maintained all sorts of other drag/interference can crop up. To my memory; the additional sensation of a keyed on (running) ICE bike is vibration, not resistance to being pushed.
The pulses from the zero are extremely mild sensations. I assume you'd feel the same, or otherwise something would REALLY be wrong with your bike.
If that's how you characterize the sensation you're feeling I think it's fair to say the resistance on mine is stronger. Strong enough to where I have to exert a decent portion of my strength (I'm not that strong) to get the bike moving (once it's up to ~4-5mph it smooths out). It doesn't seem dangerous, and as far as I can tell there are no other symptoms or drawbacks, but it is annoying.
Yeah, that's definitely different than my bike. Very easy push/pull with key off. Only slightly more difficult when keyed on.