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[MichaelJ]

Has anyone seen a Zero with the CHAdeMO Fast Charge Socket Kit installed?  Beyond the round socket that gets added, what else is added that takes up space and is visible from the outside of the bike?

The reason I ask is because when I asked at the local motorcycle show, a Zero representative waved generally at the middle of the bike and said it goes there.  I've never seen the CHAdeMO nor the J1772 adapter installed, and the Power Accessories pages on the Zero web site only show a close-up of the round sockets.  On a different occasion, when I was speaking with Brammo representatives about charging and comparisons between Level 2 and CHAdeMO, the rep I spoke with implied that the CHAdeMO on the Zero was a bulky add-on.  I wasn't surprised that he took the opportunity to contrast the thousand+ dollars of add-ons necessary to rapidly charge a Zero against the Empulse's built-in support for true Level 2 charging...all without sacrificing storage space.  However, I couldn't be sure he wasn't confusing CHAdeMO support with the Quick Charger.

It occurs to me that although there are a lot of posts about CHAdeMO on this forum, I haven't found even one post from a customer who has it on their bike.

Is there even one Zero customer on this forum who has the CHAdeMO accessory and can describe their experience with it?

--
Thanks,
Michael

[frodus]

What chademo looks like installed:
https://www.google.com/search?q=zero+chademo&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9wBtU9KBKKLKsQTi54HgAQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=1920&bih=1008

Chademo:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_5&products_id=162 $1799
Total: $1799

L2 charging requires another charger and a J1772 connector:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=188 $499
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_5&products_id=194 $599
Total: $1098

[MichaelJ]

Thank you Frodus, yes, I've seen the picture on the Zero web site.  The Google image search wasn't too helpful, however, due to the large number of irrelevant pictures of LEAFs and EVSE and pictures too zoomed out to show where the CHAdeMO equipment would be.

Comparing Zero's pictures of the CHAdeMO and J1772 sockets, they both appear to be in the same place on the left side of the bike.  This appears to imply that they cannot both be installed at the same time.  Is that correct?  That might explain why the J1772 adapter is available.

[ultrarnr]

I am not quite sure why anyone would really want to use the J1772 plug that Zero sells though. It only connects to the internal charger so you are only charging at 1300 watts. The J1772 systems can put out 6600 watts or more. I have been riding my SR around for the past two days with my two 1000 watt quick chargers and a J1772 adapter plug from Hollywood Electrics that connects both quick chargers and the internal charger. At 3300 watts I can get about a 20-21% charge in an hour. I have ordered two 2500 watt chargers from Hollywood Electrics so with 6300 watts of charging capability I will be able to really take advantage of the J1772 network. Should be able to cut my charging times almost in half. I emailed a guy at Zero a photo of my SR charging at a McDonalds and he mentioned that Zero is working on a system to take full advantage of the J1772 system. I love having the Power Tank but in somes cases the money might be better spent on quick chargers.

[aaronzeromoto]

So I know I don't fully qualify as a customer, but I thought a few pictures from my 2013 Zero DS might help. The CHAdeMO inlet is quite sizable, but it's the only component that is visible. Everything else fits under the seat of the motorcycle. In terms of the experience, the biggest issue remains potential incompatibility with CHAdeMO stations that are not fully compliant with the specification. Our solution and our motorcycle's electrical architecture requires support for voltages below 200V.  You'll find some posts on the forum describing this in more detail if you are interested. Some charging stations chose simply to stop at 200V, which is why you can't buy one of these unless you talk to me. We don't want you to be disappointed.  Today, it's really a better solution for our Fleet customers that are installing a known compatible charging station or someone that knows they have access to a compatible station (typically a Nissan one).

MichaelJ - You are correct that you can not install both a CHAdeMO and a J1772 Charging Socket Kit as the mounting brackets occupy the same location.

ultrarnr - Customers typically purchase the J1772 plug when they regularly use a compatible charging station that doesn't have a 110v outlet. Your comments are totally correct that it doesn't make economic sense when that charging station charges by the time used rather than the kWh consumed.  Those customer may purchase the mounted version when they want the comfort of having it secured to the motorcycle.

For the most part, Quick Chargers are really for home use when customers want the comfort of knowing their motorcycle will charge faster and they have the electrical infrastructure to support it.

Regards,
aaronzeromoto

[ultrarnr]

aaronzeromoto

I disagree. Quick chargers are for customers who want to get more use out of their electric motorcycles. For example: I rode 146 miles on my SR today. I rode from home to a mall for some shopping, then stopped by my Zero dealer and then rode home. I charged twice. Spent about 3hrs, 20 minutes charging near the REI in Raleigh and then an hour at a McDonalds where I stopped for something to drink before heading home. Of the 146 miles I rode 75 miles was on a 4-lane at 70 MPH. Without quick chargers this sort of trip would not have been possible.

Two days ago I rode 78 miles in the morning to order some stuff for my V-Strom at my Suzuki dealer. Rode 75 miles in the afternoon to exchange gloves at Cycle Gear. Again, this sort of usage is not possible without quick chargers.

There is a theatre in Columbia SC that I used to go to. I want to be able to ride my SR to go see a play there. I will have to charge twice to get there and having the ability to charge at 6300 watts can make that sort of trip practical to do.

I rarely drive my truck anymore. I have a 2012 V-Strom with over 80,000 miles on it. I want to use my SR to keep a few miles off my V-Strom and quick chargers can help me do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Agreed quick charging when out and about is going to become more and more important as we start using our electrics as our primary bikes.

3-6Kw onboard J1772 (or for me its European equivalent) charging is going to be an attractive selling point for me when it comes to replacing my little ZF9.

[GNU]

Ultranr,
Your  setup sounds really interesting. Can you share some pictures of it?
Is it using the same passive July plug that Zero carries or did they install a "brain" in it?

Does it fit it the tank compartment or do carry it separately?

[ultrarnr]

GNU,

Here is a picture of my set-up. Both 1K quick chargers are in the top box. The J1772 plug with 3 pigtails also fits in there. The J1772 plug I got from Hollywood Electrics. The Y adapter needed to run 2 quick chargers I leave in place all the time. The two ends tuck in behind the battery on the right side. Have had no issues with them like that. The one pigtail that connects to the internal charger goes down the left side of the bike.

I have ordered 2 of the 2500 watt Elcon chargers and may mount them on my side case racks.

[GNU]

Thanks!

[MichaelJ]

So I know I don't fully qualify as a customer, but I thought a few pictures from my 2013 Zero DS might help. The CHAdeMO inlet is quite sizable, but it's the only component that is visible. Everything else fits under the seat of the motorcycle.

Aaron, thank you very much for explaining how the CHAdeMO equipment fits on the motorcycle!  I appreciate the time that you take to participate in these forums and offer authoritative information about your products.  In contrast to the many external chargers described in this forum, it's very reassuring to learn that the CHAdeMO equipment does not change the bike's silhouette, and does not get in the way of or use up space in any saddle bags or top cases.

In terms of the experience, the biggest issue remains potential incompatibility with CHAdeMO stations that are not fully compliant with the specification. Our solution and our motorcycle's electrical architecture requires support for voltages below 200V.  You'll find some posts on the forum describing this in more detail if you are interested.

Thank you, yes, I have read many of those posts.  In one of them, you mention a meeting with AeroVironment to discuss compatibility.  Is there anything that you may share with us about the outcome of that meeting?  Are the EV50 units compatible?  They are the ones I would be most likely to charge at, as part of the West Coast Green Highway.

Some charging stations chose simply to stop at 200V, which is why you can't buy one of these unless you talk to me. We don't want you to be disappointed.

If I find other DCFCs that I would be likely to charge at, may I ask you about compatibility for each?  How would you like that conversation to be held?  For the 150-mile+ one-day or multi-day rides I'm hoping to make, CHAdeMO is the cleaner solution.

I'm very much looking forward to being able to tour with the Zero.  There is a specific ~200-mile group ride that I'm looking forward to that would be painful on a Brammo Empulse even with built-in L2 charging, due to its shorter range and longer charging time (3.5 hours empty-to-full) relative to CHAdeMO (1.5 hours empty-to-full).  For that particular ride, I estimate that the Brammo would require 4 more hours of charging time than the Zero S + Power Tank + CHAdeMO.

Nobody on the group ride will wait hours for an electric bike to charge, but because the group ride will be making a long stop along the way, I can use part of that time to visit a CHAdeMO 7 miles away and rejoin the group before they raise their kickstands again.

Have there been other (non-fleet) customers who have purchased the CHAdeMO kit?  Are you able to share with us whether or not they have been happy with it?

MichaelJ - You are correct that you can not install both a CHAdeMO and a J1772 Charging Socket Kit as the mounting brackets occupy the same location.

Thanks for confirming!  I had originally misunderstood that the J1772 and CHAdeMO sockets could be mounted in the two cylindrical holes that go all the way through the frame.

[Edit 2014-05-12: Fixed http://www.tulipride.org link]

[benswing]

I have ordered two 2500 watt chargers from Hollywood Electrics so with 6300 watts of charging capability I will be able to really take advantage of the J1772 network. Should be able to cut my charging times almost in half. I emailed a guy at Zero a photo of my SR charging at a McDonalds and he mentioned that Zero is working on a system to take full advantage of the J1772 system. I love having the Power Tank but in somes cases the money might be better spent on quick chargers.

It was my impression that you can only use 2 Elcon 2500W chargers and not also use the onboard charger.  This applies to 2012 bikes, maybe something is different on the 2013/14.  That would be awesome! 

Also, I agree that it would make more sense to have a "Charger Pack" available that takes the same space as the Power Pack.  Giving up a little range for 6-7kW of charging would be a good tradeoff in my book. 

[ultrarnr]

benswing,

Do you remember the reason given for not being able to use the internal charger at the same time as the 2-2500 watt chargers?  Even using all three you are not going to be charging as fast as a CHAdaMO so I wouldn't think there would be any issues as far as the battery pack goes. I realize the 2500 watt charger may pull a bit more than that so it would be very close to the limits of the J1772 system which is 6600 watts on most of them. Think some systems go to 7700 watts but not sure how to tell. When you charge on a Chargepoint  J1772 you can see on the App how many watts you are drawing on the system. Will be interesting to see.  Thanks,

[benswing]

ultrarnr, the reason was because the current would be too great for one of the fuses.  I got my Elcons with strict instructions to either charge with both or charge with 1 on the side port and the onboard charger using the rear port.  The second Elcon is connected to the rear port via a splitter (on my bike) and it would be too much current for both to work at the same time.  There are potentially ways around this, but it required more work (and risk) than I wanted to deal with.

What I really want to see is someone adapt this for a Zero:

http://www.emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/product/show/10-smartcharge-12000-a-12kw-universal-voltage-ev-charger-fully-assembled-tested

It is designed for 12kW, but if we could make a smaller one (6-7kW) with less cooling needs and enclose it for weather, then we'd have a great travel charger! 

[aaronzeromoto]

MichaelJ,

"I'm very much looking forward to being able to tour with the Zero."

Me too.  Unfortunately, we aren't quite there yet. Ultrarnr's approach of mounting the external chargers in top boxes or in side cases is the solution that I see most often for those on the forefront of these efforts.

With respect to CHAdeMO, I continue to struggle with the best way to communicate compatibility. And because the installation is quite involved, the quantity sold has been few to non-fleet customers. IMHO, it works best for a commuter who has access to such a charging station at work and wants to utilize it every day.

Beyond this, I can say we have some ideas we are working on and we continue to read these posts carefully to make sure the solutions we provide address the uses cases you all are highlighting.

Regards,
aaronzeromoto