ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Snafuperman on March 11, 2017, 05:58:23 AM
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OK, this may sound dumb but here goes . . .
Is the Zero electric m/c a truly direct drive? Meaning there's no centrifugal clutch? So, when the ignition key is turned on, the electric motor doesn't start to slowly spin -- it only starts to spin when the throttle is twisted.
It would seem a bit dangerous going from a gas-powered motorcycle to an electric motorcycle because "blipping the throttle", a habit with a gas-powered m/c, might launch the electric bike out from underneath you?
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Seriously, there's NO reason to "blip" the throttle on an ICE bike, and you WILL launch yourself if you try that on the Zero. It is a direct drive; no clutch, no gears. When you aren't moving, there's no reason for the motor to be running either. Unlike a gasoline engine an electric motor can go down to 0 rpm without "dying" and requiring a restart.
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Yes, I know there is no reason to blip the throttle. I'm just thinking that maybe I'll be sitting at a stop light and my conditioning from 46 years of riding 42 different motorcycles will kick in and I will zone-out and accidentally "blip" the throttle, launching the thing out from underneath me.
But you answered my question. I also just got off the phone with the local Zero dealer (pretty lucky there) and we talked about the bike for a while. Anyhow, thanks
No need for anyone to waste time on more responses!
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Seriously, there's NO reason to "blip" the throttle on an ICE bike.
My CR500 disagrees with you.
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Seriously, there's NO reason to "blip" the throttle on an ICE bike.
My CR500 disagrees with you.
I assume your talking about a CR500 setup for ice racing ????? :)
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No need for anyone to waste time on more responses!
Yeah, sorry, not gonna happen. I used to be an incorrigible throttle blipper myself. I still do it, but very very gently, to toss the bike back and forth a few inches while I'm waiting for a light to turn green.
You develop a separate set of reactions. it's like when learning a different language, you might think you'd become confused at some point. But it doesn't happen..."Si Senor" is a very different response than "Thanks!". It's similar to the automatic clutch/neutral response. I'm sure when you approach a stop on an ICE bike, you pull in the clutch and slip the transmission into neutral. But when you approach a stop on an electric bike, you don't need to do either. You'll grab for the clutch a few times, feel like you need to prod the tranny into neutral, and realize you don't have to do either. But after a few times, you'll get the feel of it, and not do either.
Blipping is very similar, but more so. You'll remind yourself not to, and surprisingly, you'll remember! You know the consequences of a strong throttle blip -- throwing yourself out into traffic -- and you just won't do it. A light blip is fine, I often rock my bike back and forth at a stop, but you'll break the habit of severe blipping VERY fast...it'll kill you and you know it.
We don't just ride our bikes, they convey us at the same time. It's a symbiotic relationship --you adapt to them, they adapt to you. They're machines in need of a pilot, we're pilots looking for the perfect machine.
My best input is very simple: Throw a leg over one. Ride it. Let it convey you. Then decide. Thtottle blipper or no. Just ride one.
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The local Zero dealer told me to come over and drive one. I will . . . soon. I currently have 5 motorcycles. I'm in the process of selling 3 of them, mainly to free up some room. When that's done then I will seriously look into purchasing another bike. A month or so from now, hopefully . . . .
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Snafuperman,
I have had my DSR for 900 miles now and I thought after 32 years of riding almost every day, I would also blip it, but as everybody else here says, there is no urge to do that either.
Since the bike is completely quiet, there is nothing to kind "keep alive" so to speak.
The one thing that I experienced though is that you have to do the equivalent of blipping when you do tight turns to simulate the torque control (to create the surges that push you forward and keep you upright) you have with the clutch on an ICE.
I am talking about as tight turns you can think of, where you begin hitting the steering end points.
Initially, when the bike begins to fall over to the insight of the turn, well, I would miss this super small mini clutching that allows you to create just that push that keeps you upright.
I realized that on the zero, you can drag the rear, or the front break, just as you can do it on the ICE and then play with the throttle to create that clutching surge you need to turn really tightly. If you are hitting your steering end points and you don't blip the throttle on the zero, well, your leg is coming out immediately.
Especially when you want to get around the turn, like a u-turn quickly and really take off right out of the turn, the blipping although not in the sense you mentioned it is essential.
So in a sense the throttle on a zero takes over the function of the clutch when you are at 2-4 mph and maneuvering.
But standing still, you simply enjoy the nothing that surrounds you, no noise, no vibration, just the calm before the storm.
Air clutching like it happened during my test rides has also stopped pretty much immediately after I got the bike as well as fake shifting.
R7
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Thanks for the tips R7.
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You're welcome.
You'll immediately know what I mean when you make slow tight turns, you'll begin playing with the throttle immediately so you don't need to use the leg like a beginner :-[
R7
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There are quite a few videos of Zero motorcycles on YouTube. Great viewing!
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You know what I am most fascinated with
besides the pure grunt of acceleration, the effortlessness of catapulting yourself through tight traffic with nothing to do but to throttle up, and well,
that I travel to work for a dollar a week plus almost none existing maintence cost and
finally breaking the cycle of adding more pollution to our planet......
the thing I am most fascinated with is the noise or the lack of it this electric lady makes.
Having watched pretty much all the videos before I bought her and listening to the noise it makes, I now always wonder how the pedestrians are perceiving the whhooosh... when I am riding by. 8)
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R7, I'm the kind of guy who likes quiet motorcycles, even if they have an ICE. All my motorcycles have had the stock exhaust. I'm not a believer in "loud pipes save lives". I am looking forward to an even quieter ride.
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R7, why did you pick the DSR over the SR? Just curious. Is the street ride softer with longer-travel shocks?
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R7, I'm the kind of guy who likes quiet motorcycles, even if they have an ICE. All my motorcycles have had the stock exhaust. I'm not a believer in "loud pipes save lives". I am looking forward to an even quieter ride.
Snafuperman,
I even go as far as feeling that especially most agricultural machines, eh.... they call them Harley's I think, should be ticketed by cops for literally disturbing the peace.
Well, we riders of motorcycles know that your brain saves lives not your pipes.
I understand that we disrupt normal timing and sequencing of traffic and that we are easlily ovelooked, but honestly, if you're making your life depending on the fact that a motorist hears you should stop riding.
I think we agree here.
R7 (I might have to be careful abbreviating my screen name from rider7 to R7, what is someone has that other username or creates one.
That could get confusing without constantly checking the header :o
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The "loud pipes save lives" folks are just immature jerks who never grew up. Their real mentality is: "Hey, look at me! Look at me!"
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Actually you are right, this constant throttle blipping on their tractors at the lights is literally screaming low self esteem.
Sorry if anybody here is one of them, you might want to think about it a bit.
It annoys the living electrons out of me. >:(
When I still lived in LA, the whole ground would shake when these assholes opened up.
It stresses out everybody and especially the older population (me ::) ).
But I actually found it never appealing when it was simply too loud.
But I have to admit that my XT-600 was a thumper, but i was an immature dude I guess who wanted other to look at me... to prove your point.
But never the unreal ruckus of the agricultural machinery with no baffles.
I am surprise not ever having seen a set of hitch balls hanging off a Harley.
What baffles me though is that, although it's illegal to ride loud as shit pipes like that, that no cop ever tickets them unlesss they pulled them over for other stuff.
Anyway, eventually they'll die off and electric will be all there is.
Can you imagine being one of the last ICEs out there how people would look at you?
Oh well, maybe they'll admire you since it's a historic by then :P
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You've got to watch the South Park episode, "The F Word".
https://youtu.be/BkqCmVXXbk4
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170316/c0ca8c9d856cdcc5c82ab9ab597bc11a.jpg)
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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Anyway, eventually they'll die off and electric will be all there is.
It can't happen too soon for me. That crowd never wears a helmet, so maybe it will happen sooner. ;)
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While we are waiting for the "look and listen to me" crowd to die off, the public and politicians are hearing the same noise we are and are associating it with all motorcycles and their riders. I just hope that the noise finally dies down before motorcycles are legislated off of the highways. :(
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While we are waiting for the "look and listen to me" crowd to die off, the public and politicians are hearing the same noise we are and are associating it with all motorcycles and their riders. I just hope that the noise finally dies down before motorcycles are legislated off of the highways. :(
Unless you are aware of some specific upcoming legislation, I don't think it will ever happen. People, mostly motorcyclists, have been saying this sort of thing for 40 years -- ain't happened yet. But don't get me wrong -- I wish they would enforce the exhaust max dB laws. And with all the things wrong in this world, of a much higher priority, I hope the legislatures of the US would work on the more important items.
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You've got to watch the South Park episode, "The F Word".
https://youtu.be/BkqCmVXXbk4 (https://youtu.be/BkqCmVXXbk4)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170316/c0ca8c9d856cdcc5c82ab9ab597bc11a.jpg)
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
Oh my world..... hilarious clay.....
Thanks for that, i had no idea South Park picked up on that.
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Guys,
what baffles me is that the law is already there, but it simply doesn't get enforced and why not, that is beyond me.
Maybe the cops are fearful of retaliation when they pull those a.... holes off the street.
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Guys,
what baffles me is that the law is already there, but it simply doesn't get enforced and why not, that is beyond me.
Maybe the cops are fearful of retaliation when they pull those a.... holes of the street.
I don't know why the max exhaust dB laws are not enforced. Testing equipment not given to patrol police? It's probably just a low (bottom?) priority for them.
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Forget all that, when is the last time a ticket was given for something other than speeding? Never around here.
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Forget all that, when is the last time a ticket was given for something other than speeding? Never around here.
Yeah, around here even the cops run red lights, make illegal turns, and rarely use signals. And I think it's a Colorado law that when a light turns red (especially left turns) at least one more car has to run through.
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Guys,
what baffles me is that the law is already there, but it simply doesn't get enforced and why not, that is beyond me.
Maybe the cops are fearful of retaliation when they pull those a.... holes of the street.
I used to work with police officers in the city that employed me. They had quite a little motorcycle gang that would ride spiritedly during the weekend. One police lieutenant told me that the reason that Harley riders don't get pulled over for noise and traffic law violations very often is that cops know that about half of the riders will be in law enforcement and they don't want to mess with them. Prison guards (for some reason - maybe their hearing is shot) in particular tend to ride loud H-D bikes. :o
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. . . the reason that Harley riders don't get pulled over for noise and traffic law violations very often is that cops know that about half of the riders will be in law enforcement and they don't want to mess with them. Prison guards (for some reason - maybe their hearing is shot) in particular tend to ride loud H-D bikes. :o
Great. Cops breaking the law. Makes sense to me. ::) >:(
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Seriously, there's NO reason to "blip" the throttle on an ICE bike.
My CR500 disagrees with you.
I assume your talking about a CR500 setup for ice racing ????? :)
since I never answered this...
The only time you need to blip the throttle on a motorcycle is if its loading up and needs it so it doesnt foul the plug or stall.
So in otherwords, I dont blip the throttle on any of my 4stroke motorcycles.
My CR500 is plated to be street legal, but its still a 500cc two stroke motocross bike... meaning that if im running around in low speed stop and go traffic, I can either give it a small blip every 30 seconds or so... or I can let it load up at the light and blow smoke blipping it before pulling away... or I can risk stalling when I pull away.
The same applies to several other vintage 2-strokes I occasionally ride. they need a little blip to clear up before you pull away.
EFI 4stroke Bikes like sportbikes do not. When I see someone blipping, I just assume they either have no idea what they're doing, or their bike is a piece of crap.
Harleys are old 1950s tech air cooled motors that are sometimes carbureted, not stored properly and ridden by mechanically ignorant people... so I am not surprised if someone has to blip it for it to idle.
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I see that we pretty much all agree with each other that it is frustrating to be at the mercy of literally less than ideal personnel seeking the position of a policemen.
And the HD issue?
If you have ever ridden one of those tractors (you cannot even lean into turns without dragging your chassis like an idiot), they pretty much shake whatever is left in your scull to mush and the rest of anything that could resemble a brain gets destroyed by 89 dB of shockwave of "no baffle I am so cool noise".
Ahhhh.... isn't it refreshing to bash these ignorant farmers and their cool machines.
Can you imagine that some spend $30 and more K on something that looks like from a bad 1970 movie and is technology from the stone age .
Whoever has more good bashing, bring it on I feel no mercy with members of that group who are giving all of the real riders a bad reputation.
That goes for the stunters as well, the ones thinking the street is theirs.
Given, their performances are impressive, but wrong place, wrong time.
Ok, I am done ::)
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I'm looking forward to a motorcycle with
- low (almost no) maintenance
- cheap to operate
- very low weight
- good power
- good top end speed
- comfortable standard riding position
The only drawback I see is the limited range, but for me this is no longer a problem. Unlike when I was young, I rarely ride more than 100 miles now.
I've had 42 motorcycles in my 45 years of riding: mostly Japanese, 3 German, 4 Italian, 6 American. And all different types: sport, cruiser, standard, dual-sport. Now I'm looking forward to a Zero SR or DSR.
Now this bike also intrigues me because I always wanted a Triumph Bonneville when I was young but could never afford one:
(http://images.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/media-library/images/configurator/d%20series%20primary%20image%20cgi%20rhs/d%20v%20n%20series%20side%20shots/d%20series%20no%20gama/du_cran_red_alum_silver%20rhs%20png.png?w=600)
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OK, here's a really stupid question . . .
What does the "13.0" mean in the Zero model name, "ZERO DSR Max Adventure ZF13.0"?
Is that kWh? Energy stored?
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What does the "13.0" mean in the Zero model name, "ZERO DSR Max Adventure ZF13.0"?
Is that kWh? Energy stored?
Yes, and yes.
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What does the "13.0" mean in the Zero model name, "ZERO DSR Max Adventure ZF13.0"?
Is that kWh? Energy stored?
Yes, and yes.
Thank you. So, that can be drained in about three hours of spirited riding?
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What does the "13.0" mean in the Zero model name, "ZERO DSR Max Adventure ZF13.0"?
Is that kWh? Energy stored?
Yes, and yes.
Thank you. So, that can be drained in about three hours of spirited riding?
My experience has been that Zero's estimated range on their website is pretty accurate - provided that your riding exactly corresponds to their criteria. You can't go by hours riding, especially if you can't scientifically specify what "spirited riding" consists of. Uphills, downhill, into the wind and against your back - it all affects your range. But nothing eats up power like high speeds. If you get on the freeway, peg the throttle and keep it there, you will be watching that battery usage meter dropping about 2% per mile. At that rate it won't take too long before you are searching for a recharging station or heading back home. ;)
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To be honest, "spirited riding" was something I did in the past. Nowadays I go for 50-mile rides on a Sunday morning, when traffic is light, and I rarely get out of 4th gear on my 6-speed bikes. As long as it will go 100 miles with speeds almost always under 50 mph, we'll make a great match.
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My daily commute is ~50 miles, about half at freeway speeds, and I routinely get home with 45%+ remaining charge, often 50%+ (especially when the weather's warm). And I'm a big guy, over 300 pounds. So yeah, it should do what you describe quite well.
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I'm looking forward to it.