ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: trikester on October 28, 2013, 09:53:34 PM
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I posted this on my e-trike thread but those who aren't interested in that subject will have missed it. I had Harlan re-program my 2013 SPORT mode system to 0% regen with no brake light and 15% with light. Then I iPod programmed the ECO for 0% with no light and 25% with light. This gives me coasting almost as good as a bicycle and then two levels of regen when I put on the brake light (but not the brake itself unless extra stopping force is needed).
The question I had to answer by trying was: When the SPORT regen is set to 0% does the ECO regen drop to that same level when it is programmed for 0%. The answer: Yes.
As I have stated before: When slowing is not needed, the most efficient way to go down a slope is free coasting with no regen. When slowing is needed then use regen for that.
Now the bad news: The 2012 systems cannot be set to 0% regen because by default it goes back to the factory 7% the next time the key is turned on. If the Doc, or someone else, can figure out how to defeat that setting then 2012 riders could benefit from this ability to get good coasting also. It is very nice to roll down a gentle slope without using any throttle.
I'll copy this reply to 2013 also under "regen settings".
Trikester
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That is excellent info, Thanks Trikester.
Well i think it would be nearly impossible to acheive that on the 2012 because i think the MBB reprogram the sevcon to set the baseline program parameters every time it is switched ON.
That would require to play with the MBB firmware rater than the sevcon i guess...
Doc
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Thanks for this info to program my DS Eco mod !
Laurent
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I coast all the time. Just open the throttle a touch. I never really saw it as a problem.
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I like just the opposite...max regen with the brake and with no throttle. Otherwise I find myself coming up too fast behind parked cars and into corners. I suppose I could get used to coasting if I had too, but my other motorcycles engine brake and I'm used to that. Off road I might feel different about it too.
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As I have stated before: When slowing is not needed, the most efficient way to go down a slope is free coasting with no regen. When slowing is needed then use regen for that.
Trikester
In theory I agree with this statement. However, a recent empirical test generated an interesting data point. My buddy and I were both on '13 Zero S's, we both started at the top of a long (~3miles), fairly steep hill, that had a 1/2 dozen or so corners that required minimal braking. He turned his bike off and coasted the entire distance, using the brakes when necessary but otherwise staying at or above the speed limit the whole way. I paced him, using as little throttle as I could, as little brake as I could, and allowing the bike to regen as much as possible.
The end result? I gained 1% SOC. He obviously ended the same as he started. The moral to the story? It is at least sometimes better to regen than purely freewheel.
I just love watching the SOC go "UP" while riding. That will never get old...
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As I have stated before: When slowing is not needed, the most efficient way to go down a slope is free coasting with no regen. When slowing is needed then use regen for that.
Trikester
In theory I agree with this statement. However, a recent empirical test generated an interesting data point. My buddy and I were both on '13 Zero S's, we both started at the top of a long (~3miles), fairly steep hill, that had a 1/2 dozen or so corners that required minimal braking. He turned his bike off and coasted the entire distance, using the brakes when necessary but otherwise staying at or above the speed limit the whole way. I paced him, using as little throttle as I could, as little brake as I could, and allowing the bike to regen as much as possible.
The end result? I gained 1% SOC. He obviously ended the same as he started. The moral to the story? It is at least sometimes better to regen than purely freewheel.
I just love watching the SOC go "UP" while riding. That will never get old...
The statement previously made is still correct. He stated that if you don't need to slow down, coast, but when you need to slow down, use {only} regen if possible. If the rider with their bike off didn't use their brakes at all, I would be surprised at the result of your test.
-ryan
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Hey Biff, Great to hear from you again! ;)
I would love to know if there is any kind of 75-9 motor version on the 2014 but i know all people from Zero have to shut their mought until next 5 nov :-\
That 75-7 motor is really a tempting mod to do on my S 2012 if combiend with a size 6 but without any voltage increase i doubt that the 75-X motor could improove anything...
Ok ok now back to the original thread!
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Interesting thread... So I changed my ECO settings to 0% regen coast and 100% regen brake.
I must say it's a all new way of driving, trying to be as gentle as possible on the front brake switch when you want regen and feeling the "freewheeling" when releasing it. Really different than an ICE bike but surely effective for range improvement.
I'm gonna try to get used to it next few weeks of riding.
Laurent
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i doubt that the 75-X motor could improove anything
Aside from the 75-X's motors possibly having a more robust sin/cos encoder... :)
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emotofreak didn't read my statement carefully. The reason he came out better is because the other guy used his mechanical brakes. I repeat: if slowing is not needed - free coast. If slowing is needed use regen.
I have my ECO mode set for 0% regen without brake light and 100% regen with brake light (which comes on before any mechanical braking).
I said all of this in my original statement.
BTW - Even slight throttle needed in order to go downhill is using energy. I'd rather coast!
Trikester
ALSO: Biff has told me that the firmware upgrades to the 2012's MBB and Sevcon removes the auto reset to the SPORT default regen and also removes the limitation on how many times you can switch to ECO and back to SPORT. That is definitely an upgrade worth getting. The 2012's then become like the 2013's in that regard.
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ALSO: Biff has told me that the firmware upgrades to the 2012's MBB and Sevcon removes the auto reset to the SPORT default regen and also removes the limitation on how many times you can switch to ECO and back to SPORT. That is definitely an upgrade worth getting. The 2012's then become like the 2013's in that regard.
That is very good new!!
On my side i was only able to make the sevcon upgrade but not the mbb since no dealer in Quebec province have the up to date MBB programmer!
Doc
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I was only adding the data point, that even with just minimal braking required, the regen proved itself superior to freewheeling with empirical data. I was not arguing the original statement, in fact, I explicitly agreed "in theory". I guess what I'm getting at is, is there a scenario, that can be performed in the real-world, in realistic conditions, where turning off the bike and freewheeling would actually give you better range? You would have to know, ahead of time, that you will not need the brakes or throttle. It seems that is a small corner case, and one for which I have not seen empirical evidence to support. Again, I agree "in theory" a freewheeling bike should use less energy in a very narrow set of circumstances. I'm just not sure all those criteria will ever be met in the "real world". Basically if we go for a ride, and you turn your regen on/off all you want, and if I am just pacing you in eco mode, I will still probably go further.
Ultimately, I know we are all interested in getting the most efficiency out of our vehicles, and I am just as curious as the rest of you as to what the best possible drive profile and strategy is. My best guess at this point, as supported by all the data I have access to, is no-regen-freewheeling will provide little, if any, perceptible increase in range in any realistic scenario. While effective management of regen can provide up to 6-8% increase in range in an optimum duty cycle. Possibly clutching the motor/drivetrain out of the loop entirely would make such a strategy more effective, but I think we are reaching the point of diminishing returns here.
Just thinking out loud.
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I am experiencing pretty good coasting now that I have the "no brake light" regen at 0%. Because I don't have to turn the bike off to get this I can instantly get max regen, when I need to burn off speed, by lighting the brake light.
If no braking is needed then coasting is always going to be more efficient than any amount of regen because with any amount of current flow there will always be IR losses. Same with a small amount of throttle. The differences would be small but I would expect it to be measurable. In the case of your friend he was using brakes, which of course don't return anything to the battery, so you definitely would go farther in that test. Also in any test there are differences in bikes that have to be evened out. My first Zero had a construction fault in the rear hub that added a lot of drag. Zero eventually replaced it.
The best way to run the test would be to swap bikes with one set up with 0% no light and 100% with brake light regen and one with 7% (the factory default) and 100% (with light) then swap the settings and run again.
Trikester
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I don't know the 2013 so good but I think it is the same. If you have the bike ON and push it you will feel and hear that the motor gets some regulation and the bike has a higher rolling resistant. Therefore the coasting is not really "free".
Last year I did a lot of testing different parameter in the Sevcon. There is one special Register that switch off the H-Bridge if no torque is required.
4650h
Miscellaneous DSP configuration
Used to disable/enable various features on the DSP
Bit 0: Disable encoder wire-off detection
Bit 1 : Disable software over current
Bit 2 : Use low speed gains
Bit 3 : Enable closed loop slip compensation
Bit 4 : Scale max torque by power limit
Bit 5 : Used fanned I2t cutback profile
Bit 6 : Allow drv/brk trq inhibit to 0 RPM
Bit 7 : Enable motor open circuit detection(Nano only)
Bit 8: Enable speed dependent field weakening
Bit 9: Short/Open circuit motor during severe fault
Bit 12: Disable bridge if motor spinning and demand = 0 (PMAC only)
Bit 13: Make fwd+rev speed limits equal and opposite
Bit 15: Enable PI based Iqmax limit (PMAC only)
Be careful when changing you should not change things you don't know what it will do! You can easily hurt/kill yourself!
I had this setting for a while and it was coasting really "free". I will test it again because with my step less regn brake it will be interesting how it works. (the brake is like the throttle and will demand torque => costing than braking will show how this react )
What I can remember I had sometimes a delay (dead-time) when coasting to acceleration (~ 1second).
So I will test it again!
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Yeah, when I refer to "free coasting" I mean as close to free as we can get with the switch on. However, I find that since Harlan reduced my "no brake light" regen to 0% the bike (actually my trike because I haven't done this on my FX yet). is coasting much better.
I still plan to take the chain off if I ever have to push it any distance, because even with the switch off the motor still adds noticeable magnetic drag.
Trikester
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It sounds like you have a very weird usage case, or at least imagine you do. Who is doing a significant fraction of their distance on downgrades with no braking? Why would anyone push for a significant distance? Putting throttle-off regen to 0% and brake-on regen to 100% gives you real time control of regen but that seems like a silly hassle to handle a rare situation for the vast majority of people. How much opportunity for regen are you missing in the rest of the ride's stops and gos? What is with the coasting obsession, are you sure you aren't over-focusing on a tiny percent of your ride time?
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In mountain areas some times the ride is all up hill until you get to the top, then the second half of your ride could be a lot of coasting. I have done a lot of mountain riding and some areas are like that. Steep up and steep back down. Or sometimes there is a dirt road way back down if you are all tired out from the trail and you can't even pull in the clutch anymore, you can take the road.
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It sounds like you have a very weird usage case, or at least imagine you do. Who is doing a significant fraction of their distance on downgrades with no braking? Why would anyone push for a significant distance? Putting throttle-off regen to 0% and brake-on regen to 100% gives you real time control of regen but that seems like a silly hassle to handle a rare situation for the vast majority of people. How much opportunity for regen are you missing in the rest of the ride's stops and gos? What is with the coasting obsession, are you sure you aren't over-focusing on a tiny percent of your ride time?
Actually, using that strategy just gives you more options when you ride. Instead of having to find the sweet spot on the throttle to "coast," it is automatically doable when you get off the throttle, then if you want regen, you just lightly squeeze the brake lever(s), if you need to use actual brakes, you then use the brake lever normally. Seems actually more intuitive IMO. Sometimes you may not want to regen, and instead of it being automatic, it is dependent on the rider. Really its just swapping automatic regen, for automatic coasting.
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How much opportunity for regen are you missing in the rest of the ride's stops and gos?
I don't understand the question. I always use regen for the rest of the ride's stops and goes. Every time I put on the brake light I'm using regen to stop or slow down, so the question doesn't make any sense to me. Sorry.
No brake light = no regen coasting. Brake light = regen for slowing or stopping. Best of two worlds.
The Zero factory default programming for regen has it start reducing at 1000 rpm and cut out completely at 500 rpm. I had Harlan reduce those numbers to 500 rpm and 150 rpm respectively. That enables me to completely stop at lights etc., without using my mechanical brakes, I might need to just briefly tap the mechanical brake at the end to stop a slow roll.
On a mountain dirt road ride I had an altitude gain of 4300 feet in 16 miles. The road had sharp 180 degree switchbacks. Coming back down I did the entire 16 miles without using my mechanical brakes once. Coasting and regen braking was all I needed. Plus I gained a bar on the gauge by the bottom.
cloroxbb's statement says the rest for me. It is "spot on".
BTW - A lot of my rides involve a lot of climbing and then the return with a lot of descending but I even like the choice of - no regen coast or regen braking - in the city and on the short ups and downs of desert riding.
If I could get continuously variable regen from 0% to max % then that would be the perfect world! I'll bet that Zero will figure out that one sometime in the future, just as some car companies have.
Trikester
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If I could get continuously variable regen from 0% to max % then that would be the perfect world! I'll bet that Zero will figure out that one sometime in the future, just as some car companies have.
There are rumours that Vectrix is going out of business again. Perhaps Zero should buy their patent for the multi function throttle. Because that provides the full regen control. (and slow speed reverse...)
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Is there a patent?
The Sevcon provide this as standard. (Photo)
I love my step less regen brake using a clutch lever +...
I know Zero would like to do things like this, but every part will raise the price.
Doing it with the dual throttle needs a good adjustment.
As I remember you had a Vectrix, is that right? How was your experiences with that dual throttle?
I once read about adjusting the mechanic, you had to start a software procedure with some brake lever "code" and than setting the midpoint (mechanic) at the throttle...
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How are you doing variable regen with a lever using the Sevcon? I looked at the throttle setting graph but don't understand how it is implemented?
Trikester
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I did a different way. The Sevcon has a second analog input, there I use my brake lever box. It has a 5KOhm poti inside and a gear to twist it with the small lever movement.
I have attached a diagram Analog Input 2 is my brake input!
But there are some standards available but I had mine 1 year before I saw this :'(
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3027.msg14912#msg14912 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3027.msg14912#msg14912)
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How was your experiences with that dual throttle?
I once read about adjusting the mechanic, you had to start a software procedure with some brake lever "code" and than setting the midpoint (mechanic) at the throttle...
The multi function throttle is the best thing about the Vectrix. I will really miss it on my next bike!
It is simply perfect.
The procedure you describe is for calibration, only needed if you have a problem after dropping the bike on the handlebars or some other reason to cause the setting to become wrong. It also involves opening the throttle and using a small screwdriver to adjust it.
My throttle assembly was replaced under warranty once after a firmware upgrade screwed it up. But other than that it worked flawless for 43.000 kilometres and counting. Knock on wood...
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I did a different way. The Sevcon has a second analog input, there I use my brake lever box. It has a 5KOhm poti inside and a gear to twist it with the small lever movement.
I have attached a diagram Analog Input 2 is my brake input!
But there are some standards available but I had mine 1 year before I saw this :'(
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3027.msg14912#msg14912 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3027.msg14912#msg14912)
Does the sevcon require reprogramming to take advantage of this set up?
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You need to reprogram the Sevcon and you need to add wires to your "35 way AMPSeal connector"
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Thanks for the information. It's too bad I didn't do this while I was wiring the e-trike. It would have been easier to do during that process.
Trikester
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Thanks. Looks like a modification that can wait till august then (Warranty runs out, plus I need time to study and learn the bike before I start hacking into it.)
I was contemplating fitting a brake lever on the left side and tying that into the brake light logic to enable braking regen, however your idea is a lot better.
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Trikester, are you not concerned about locking your rear wheel on loose ground or wet tarmac? I imagine 100% regen is equivalent to pressing quite hard on the rear brake pedal?
Im with liveandletdrive on this one. I can't imagine that approaching a stop light, for example, at speed and then slowing suddenly with 100% regen will recover more energy than rolling gradually to a stop with 25% regen (or whatever is standard.)
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To be honest I'm more interested in reducing physical wear and tear on my brake pads & disks.
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Trikester, are you not concerned about locking your rear wheel on loose ground or wet tarmac? I imagine 100% regen is equivalent to pressing quite hard on the rear brake pedal?
Im with liveandletdrive on this one. I can't imagine that approaching a stop light, for example, at speed and then slowing suddenly with 100% regen will recover more energy than rolling gradually to a stop with 25% regen (or whatever is standard.)
100% regen doesn't mean 100% braking. It means that it will use the max regeneration that the motor can handle, which would not be the same as the output of the motor. So I highly doubt that the wheel will lock up since nothing is actually physically impeding the movement of the tire, just the reverse flow of electrons thru a magnetic field that slows the motors spinning. Or at least that's how it works on the Tesla. Just a guess, I guess :)
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Model S has traction control, though I'm not sure how it interacts with the regen. (I work there but I'm in the thermal group. I'll have to ask a friend in chassis. In other news we have a number of Model S, Volt, and Leaf owners (and some conversions, other brands, and electric scooters), but I think I'm the first with a Zero!) The FX's regen is absolutely enough to lock up the rear on loose ground as I discovered Sunday. Deceleration is by definition impedance (in both the electrical and mechanical senses), and you could just as well say the "forward" flow of electrons speeds up the motor's spinning. Motor and generator are reversibly equivalent, minus efficiency losses. Next time I ride dirt I will have regen off entirely, unless it is much harder packed than the dust-dunes I was dealing with this time. It has only rained once in the last 6 months here. Riding downhill in the loose stuff I wanted less rear brake than I was sometimes forced to have.
As for pavement, I'm still learning what my preferences are and putting 100% regen on only with the brake light certainly gives you more control but my argument is that there are times that you aren't on the brake but are still decelerating and that's the regen you're giving up my making it effectively manually controlled. Maybe that's not such a common thing as I imagine it to be, or maybe it's just sloppy riding, but it seems to me like regen is more about the many small decelerations and less about the less frequent big ones. If you're consistently coming down a big incline every time you ride then what you describe is probably right. I tend to be about 70% fairly flat city streets, 30% steep but rolling San Jose hills.
I'm starting to like having some variation in the regen with throttle-off rather than 100% right away, it would be good to have a linear progression instead of a wall of regen. I'm test riding a coworker's Vectrix this afternoon so that will be informative. I'll be open to mods some day (S cast wheels for street tires soon) but I should probably own it for more than a week before chopping up my most reliable vehicle. Regen all the way to a near stop sounds great.
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The limit for regeneration is the current you will allow to your battery.
My 2012DS ZF9 has 120Ah it will handle 60A cont - but not more than 1c = 120A max for braking.
To accelerate you would be able to use 1200A = 10C so the 420A is easy for the battery.
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Trikester, are you not concerned about locking your rear wheel on loose ground or wet tarmac? I imagine 100% regen is equivalent to pressing quite hard on the rear brake pedal?
Im with liveandletdrive on this one. I can't imagine that approaching a stop light, for example, at speed and then slowing suddenly with 100% regen will recover more energy than rolling gradually to a stop with 25% regen (or whatever is standard.)
100% regen doesn't mean 100% braking. It means that it will use the max regeneration that the motor can handle, which would not be the same as the output of the motor. So I highly doubt that the wheel will lock up since nothing is actually physically impeding the movement of the tire, just the reverse flow of electrons thru a magnetic field that slows the motors spinning. Or at least that's how it works on the Tesla. Just a guess, I guess :)
Yes i appreciate that 100% only means the maximum allowed by the controller, but that is still a significant amount of braking. If you unload the rear wheel with the front brake, it doesnt take much to lock the rear.
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To accelerate you would be able to use 1200A = 10C so the 420A is easy for the battery.
yes as well ;) but the "big" Powerpole 175 connector to the battery would begin to melt in a minute ;D as well as for the contactor
btw did i mentionned that i 95% charge my DS9 at 90amp pure DC with only a negligible increase in temp of the battery :D The nominal measured capacity i have is exactly the specified Ah (120Ah) wich mean i'm charging at 3/4C and the battery handle that very well. I would not worrie about setting regen to 120A... but the rear wheel would fall in tractoin mode wich might be a risk for stability..
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To address the question of my locking the rear wheel in loose terrain with max regen: That is why I set the SPORT regen, with brake light, at 15% and the ECO regen with brake light at 100% regen (equal to 25%). When I'm riding in loose terrain, where it would be easy to lock my rear wheel, I ride in SPORT mode so that my brake light only gives me 15% instead of 25% (100% ECO max).
Any other time I'm off the throttle I'm coasting which is the most efficient way of slowing.
BTW - In loose sand one never has to hit the brake light. As soon as the throttle is rolled off you are stopping rapidly, in any mode. ;D
Trikester
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Any other time I'm off the throttle I'm coasting which is the most efficient way of slowing.
Again sorry to nitpick, but this is false. Coasting is more efficient if you don't need to slow down, I will agree with you there, but if you are slowing, recovering some of that energy is always going to be better, for obvious reasons.
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Again sorry to nitpick, but this is false. Coasting is more efficient if you don't need to slow down, I will agree with you there, but if you are slowing, recovering some of that energy is always going to be better, for obvious reasons.
That is exactly what I have been saying in all of my postings on this subject. Go back and read them. I'll even repeat it again for the umpteenth time: If you don't need to slow - coast, if you need to slow use regen. How can you say what I said is false if it is exactly the same thing you just said?
One problem with these forums is that people don't always read them carefully.
Trikester
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Any other time I'm off the throttle I'm coasting which is the most efficient way of slowing.
If you don't need to slow - coast, if you need to slow use regen.
Maybe proof-read what you're saying so you don't contradict yourself before you criticize others' reading comprehension. The second quote is consistent with everything else you've said in this thread and I agree, the first is not. I am disagreeing with the former which is patently false, particularly the phrase I've now underlined. If it just wasn't phrased correctly, no big deal! Maybe I'm being pedantic but I wanted to make sure we weren't contradicting physics and confusing anyone.
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I think we understand. Not everything can be worded perfectly and sometimes on motorcycle forums we are thinking of some real riding situations where we used some of the things discussed on forums, so they have to be understood in context. On some mountain trails on the way back down I am using engine breaking a lot, so that would be a great place to be using regen instead. I guess I could pull in the clutch and coast on my gas bike, but actually I seldom ever do it on purpose for the sake of coasting. So I really do not have a good idea of coasting on offroad trails. When I do use it, I usually end up going too fast. Like pulling in the clutch down a steep hill will get rid of the engine breaking you had, and if you can't get your foot on the brake pedal to slow that rear wheel, you are probably going to speed up. There is a tight right hand corner with a cliff on the outside. It is such a tight turn and so scary that I go so slow that first gear will stall, so I have the clutch in, but it is still steep so I have to stay on the breaks and the front is the only one I can use since my right foot is off the pegs. I hate that corner. Still not a rear brake lever on the handle bar for 2014? That lever would work well for this corner. Full regen would help also, and I wouldn't have the stalling problem with electric drive. Not sure how much slowing regen would provide when going at a walking pace.
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Any other time I'm off the throttle I'm coasting which is the most efficient way of slowing.
I'll explain what I meant. O wish you had included the quote in your first reply and I could have addressed it. I didn't know that statement was what you were referring to.
I wasn't talking about going downhill in this statement. I was thinking about when I'm riding street and approaching a stop sign or light (usually fairly level) in light traffic and I get off the throttle well back from the stop. I will coast and also be very slowly decelerating just like on a bicycle. Then when I get close to the stop I'll come to a stop using regen. That gives me many more feet of coasting than if I had some amount regen going all the time even without the brake light. With some amount regen all the time I would have to stay on the throttle longer.
Since regen has losses and the coasting losses are always there anyway, regardless of regen I stand by the statement and it follows the laws of physics. Coasting is more efficient to cover more ground while slowly slowing.
I say it is more efficient to coast for 500 feet and then use regen to stop in the last 100 feet, than to use the throttle for 500 feet until 100 feet from the stop. Obviously I don't always do this especially if a vehicle is on my tail in heavy traffic, or if I'm in a hurry.
I hope that clears it up. I guess since most of my threads were about going downhill and I suddenly changed to city stop & go riding, I can see how it would be confusing.
I obey all laws of physics at all times. ;)
Trikester
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It is good to obey physics laws.
I have also noticed that any post on this forum about regenerative braking is akin to "what is the best oil for my motorcycle?" on one of the ICE motorcycle forums.
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So....about those Regen settings :)
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So....about those Regen settings :)
My settings: SPORT = no regen with no Brake Light. 15% regen with BL
ECO = no regen with no BL. 100% (which is actually 25% regen) with BL
What actually happens is the the SPORT Mode = 0% regen with no BL has to be programmed by a dealer (unless you are Doctorbass and a few others). That dealer can also set the BL regen for SPORT. I personally like 15% for riding where I don't want heavy regen. If I am riding where I'm wanting more regen braking I will switch to ECO to get the full 100% (25%) max, which I have set with my iPod.
When ECO Mode regen is set to 0% it will be whatever the Sport Mode no Brake Light regen is set to. In my case that is 0%. So in order to get no regen with no BL in ECO you have to first have set SPORT to no regen with no BL. ECO will only go down to what SPORT is set to for the no brake light situation. At least that is how it appears to work on my bikes.
Years ago I read about a record gas powered mileage run. The vehicle was on a track, I don't remember the vehicle description, but it could coast free without engine connection. The driver would accelerate slowly to a certain speed and then coast down to a certain lower speed. They did this over and over until 1 gallon of gas was used. The mileage was about 1500 mpg (I don't remember the exact figure).
When I was a teenager a friend and I used this technique to travel many miles when the model A Ford (converted to a desert buggy) we were driving was almost out of gas and we had no money (no credit cards in those days, cash only). We even coasted all the way down the Cajon Pass in SoCal. When I got home I drained the remaining gas from the tank to see how much was left. It was 1/2 cup.
Trikester
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Is it normal for them to reprogram if you ask for it? I think I may like to configure my bike that way as well...
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Years ago I read about a record gas powered mileage run. The vehicle was on a track, I don't remember the vehicle description, but it could coast free without engine connection. The driver would accelerate slowly to a certain speed and then coast down to a certain lower speed. They did this over and over until 1 gallon of gas was used. The mileage was about 1500 mpg (I don't remember the exact figure).
When I was a teenager a friend and I used this technique to travel many miles when the model A Ford (converted to a desert buggy) we were driving was almost out of gas and we had no money (no credit cards in those days, cash only). We even coasted all the way down the Cajon Pass in SoCal. When I got home I drained the remaining gas from the tank to see how much was left. It was 1/2 cup.
Among hypermilers, it's called "pulse and glide (http://www.metrompg.com/posts/pulse-and-glide.htm)". I generally don't use it on my Zero because the marginal efficiency doesn't compare to getting extra braking power and early braking effectiveness on Seattle's hills. But I've done that sort of thing on gas vehicles. I keep my tires at a relatively high pressure, mainly, and tuck in. :)
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But I've done that sort of thing on gas vehicles. I keep my tires at a relatively high pressure, mainly, and tuck in. :)
Yeah, If I'm taking my ZERO on a pavement ride that is going to be a stretch for the mileage I make my tires hard and tuck as much as I'm comfortable with. Also hold my speed around 40 mph. Coast every shallow downhill and regen brake on steeper ones.
I'm sure every motor vehicle driver that passes me wonders - why is the guy tucking? He's only doing 45. ???
Trikester
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But I've done that sort of thing on gas vehicles. I keep my tires at a relatively high pressure, mainly, and tuck in. :)
Yeah, If I'm taking my ZERO on a pavement ride that is going to be a stretch for the mileage I make my tires hard and tuck as much as I'm comfortable with. Also hold my speed around 40 mph. Coast every shallow downhill and regen brake on steeper ones.
I'm sure every motor vehicle driver that passes me wonders - why is the guy tucking? He's only doing 45. ???
Trikester
Unfortunately Trikester, I can't imagine this does much for the image of electric motorcycles! "look at that guy, sitting at 45 so he doesn't run out of battery"
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Unfortunately Trikester, I can't imagine this does much for the image of electric motorcycles! "look at that guy, sitting at 45 so he doesn't run out of battery"
I'm thinking that every time I'm riding that way (about the speed I'm riding). Some people still think that all electric vehicles are "golf carts" and that I can't go any faster. I'm reinforcing their belief.
Actually, a worse image would be me pushing the bike because I rode fast, sat upright, and ran out of juice. :'(
BTW - I love doing shorter rides at 60 to 75 mph.
NOTE: Biff has told me that the ECO settings should be independent from the SPORT settings and that when I set the ECO no brake light setting to 0 it should actually be 0 even if the SPORT setting has not been reprogrammed to 0. For some reason it didn't feel that way to me. ???
Trikester