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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Richard230 on March 23, 2012, 03:01:02 AM

Title: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 23, 2012, 03:01:02 AM
Last month I got a call from the editor of the Bay Area's monthly free motorcycle magazine, City Bike, Gabe Ets-Hokin, who I had previously met at a BMW rally. He had discovered that I had recently bought a 2012 ZF9 Zero S. Gabe told me that they were planning on writing a feature article in their April issue on electric motorcycles, reviewing both the Brammo Enertia and the 2012 Zero DS and S. I was asked if I would like to join them as they were doing their photo shoot near Golden Gate Park, about 12 miles north of my home. Naturally I said sure, that sounds like fun and headed on down there.

The next thing I know, my red Zero (which looks better than the all black one) and I (with my day-glow jacket) are being photographed in black and white for the magazine. Then I was asked to write a sidebar to their 4-page article about living with the Zero from an owner's perspective.  The magazine just came out and (as their web site hasn't been updated with the new cover yet) I took a photo of the magazine cover which is attached.

Here is what I wrote for my sidebar. I might add that my services as a writer and as a model were just as expensive as the magazine.

Living with a Zero
by Richard Harmon

So what is it like living with a 2012 ZF9 Zero S?  Two words, cheap and easy - if you can get past the initial purchase price, of course. The Zero requires very little maintenance. You don't need to change oil or filters, maintain and clean a chain, replace sparkplugs, replace batteries, adjust valves, balance throttle bodies, adjust the clutch, or spend an hour removing bodywork to get to all that stuff.  That really cuts down on maintenance costs.

How about running expenses? The other day I rode the Zero from my home in Pacifica to the town of Fairfax to visit my daughter, a round trip of 76.8 miles. I adhered to the speed limit during my ride. About 10 miles of my travel was on the freeway and the rest was on surface streets. Using a Kill A Watt meter to measure the power consumption needed to recharge the battery pack, I used a total of 7.6 kWh of electricity for the trip. PG&E charges me 13.7 cents per kWh, so the round trip only cost $1.04, or about 1.35 cents per mile.  If I had ridden my Triumph, which gets 42 mpg, my fuel cost would have been $8.21, based upon the $4.49 a gallon price for gas at my local station that day.  A savings of $7.17 on just that one trip. When you add the lack of any substantial reoccurring maintenance costs and the likelihood that the motor and battery pack will outlast the chassis, it shouldn't take too long to recoup the greater purchase price of the Zero if you ride it a lot.

That is the cheap part.  But the bike is really easy to use. You just turn on the ignition key and then ride off. You no longer have to play with the choke and/or wait for the motor to warm up. What the Zero lacks in its ability to go long distances, it makes up with its ability to do all of those daily short trips (within a 40-mile radius) quickly and easily. And of course, commuting to work is where it excels. Plus, since the bike has no transmission or clutch, getting stuck in a traffic jam is a breeze. You can do the beep and creep very easily by just turning the throttle slightly to move at a walking pace, or you can ride between stopped cars as the bike is very narrow. No smoking clutch, overheating engine, or cramping left hand. And if the bike gets dirty it is very easy to clean since it has no exhaust system or chrome to polish.

You might ask if the lack of noise is a safety issue. So far it has not been for me.  No one has moved into my lane any more than usual and my only real concern is when riding around pedestrians or bicyclists. I tend to be very careful riding in an urban environment since the bike is so quiet.

Finally, there is the issue of reliability of a new product and customer service from a small start-up manufacturer. I had a minor issue with my bike twice stalling at stoplights. The staff at Zero heard about my complaint on the internet and called me to say that they would pick my bike up at my home, take it to the factory in Scotts Valley and return it to me with their latest programming and a new throttle assembly. They did as they promised and the bike has been running great ever since.

While an electric motorcycle may not be for everyone, it works for me.



The feature article itself is reasonably positive They pointed out that the 2009 Brammo Enertia and the 2012 Zero were not being compared against each other, but that is the way it came out.  In a nutshell, the Brammo has the better chassis accessories, such as brakes, suspension and build quality, while the Zero has much better performance and range due to its three-year technology gap.  Mention was made about the Zero's "no-name" suspension and brakes - which is not exactly true, as the suspension is made by Fast Ace and the brakes are made by Hayes. There were also comments about the inability of electric motorcycles to perform wheelies - which is something that I have no interest in doing. The article may not result in a stampede to purchase electric motorcycles, but it gets the idea across that they have arrived and are here to stay.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Lipo423 on March 23, 2012, 12:10:06 PM
You definitely look very happy in that picture...
If you get an electronic copy would you mind send it to me? (we do not get this magazine in Spain)
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 23, 2012, 08:32:33 PM
I wish I could help you, Lipo323, but I don't think they produce an electronic copy of City Bike. At least I have never heard of one. But you might try to contact the editor at http://citybike.com/contact.html (http://citybike.com/contact.html)

The best I could do for you is to photograph the article and email it to you.  If you send me a PM with your email address I can take the photos and send them to you today. Most likely, anything readable would be too big a file for an attachment to this site (and might also be a copyright issue).
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: protomech on March 24, 2012, 12:32:56 AM
I noticed they have back issues available as a PDF download here:
http://citybike.com/back-issues.html# (http://citybike.com/back-issues.html#)

Unfortunately the jan 2012 through mar 2012 issues are not available (yet?) in PDF. In the absence of other information, I would assume that's just a publication delay - maybe a couple of requests could get the april 2012 issue out earlier?
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: dkw12002 on March 24, 2012, 04:13:56 AM
Very good article you wrote, Richard. While most people cannot get past the high initial cost, for a commuter the per mile cost over time will be cheaper than most motorcycles capable of going 80 mph, provided the motor and battery hold up as anticipated. It will be interesting to see how the Brammo Empulse performs. 100 mph seems optimistic. The Zero S vs. Empulse will be the comparison I want to see.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 24, 2012, 04:36:09 AM
I photographed the four pages of the City Bike electric motorcycle article. They are readable with a little magnification. If anyone wants me to send them the photos of the article, send me a PM with your email address and I will ship them off to you.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: protomech on March 24, 2012, 06:57:06 AM
It will be interesting to see how the Brammo Empulse performs. 100 mph seems optimistic. The Zero S vs. Empulse will be the comparison I want to see.

I think they'll be able to blow past 100 mph pretty easily. If the Zero can do 88 with between 20-25 wheel horsepower (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=1915.msg5820#msg5820) (down from 29 peak hp, or about 40 claimed motor hp), then the Empulse should be able to put down 40+ hp at that speed by virtue of being able to shift into its peak power band.

I shudder to think of range at 100 mph. But that speed should be a shoo-in if IET is reasonably efficient and they meet their power goals.

I don't think the Zero S will be even close to the Empulse in performance or price. The S is more likely to split the difference between the Enertia+ and the Empulse.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: dkw12002 on March 27, 2012, 04:12:43 AM
Well they claim 100 + mph and a range of 100 mi., but I bet you won't be able to put the two together. At a more realistic 75 mph, the range is going to be about 35 miles at best. The specs say the Empulse will weigh 420 lbs vs. 341 lbs for the Zero S with the ZF9 battery. Of course they have to get the bike out first so consumers can evaluate it in the real world. I will reserve judgement until then, but the extra weight is a big disadvantage for my style of riding. I don't even like the extra 45 lbs of the 2012 Zero S. I doubt I will like shifting either, but maybe a faster acceleration will offset that. A lack of dealers looks like a problem too. I see they offer a 1-year warranty rather than a 2-year like Zero, but they say they will offer a 2 and 3 year warranty for extra money. Truthfully, I would not want to send any money to them until they start sending out the first bikes and I can read some reviews. The Zero cannot do 88 mph, nor can it go 110 miles in the real world. These are not realistic figures and I suspect Brammo's Empulse nos. are off a bit as well. Still, a true 85 mph would be fine, especially if it gets there in a reasonable time. I haven't heard why they have had such a long delay in getting the bike to market. If it does in fact accelerate very well, go 95 mph or so, and have a range of 35 miles at 75 mph (which is commuting speed where I live), at $14,000 it will be very competitive with Zero. We'll see....maybe.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 27, 2012, 04:53:41 AM
I have had my Zero up to an indicated 85 mph for a short time and it got there very quickly. It was still accelerating when I had to back off as I was closing in on traffic quickly. I have also been able to hold an indicated 81 mph up a 6% 3-mile long freeway grade. But I don't know how long or how far the bike would travel at that speed. Likely the motor would start to get hot after a while and the controller would back off on the amps and for sure the battery pack would be rapidly discharging too. Fortunately, I prefer getting somewhere without pushing, over getting there quickly.

As the Empulse will have a water-cooled motor and perhaps also a battery pack, it will likely be able to hold high speeds much longer than the Zero, but then that isn't much use to me, as I rarely go faster than 70 mph, even when riding my FZ1 (which gets 50 mpg at that speed).

In any case, I look forward to finally seeing and hearing about the Empulse and I hope it shows up on the street sometime this year.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: protomech on March 27, 2012, 05:13:49 AM
Well they claim 100 + mph and a range of 100 mi., but I bet you won't be able to put the two together. At a more realistic 75 mph, the range is going to be about 35 miles at best.
If the Zero ZF9 can do ~42 miles at 70 mph, the Empulse should be able to do about 52. Maybe 48 at 75 mph.

Quote
I doubt I will like shifting either, but maybe a faster acceleration will offset that.
If you don't want to shift, you don't have to. Brammo has indicated (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=840.msg6248#msg6248) that you can leave the transmission in a particular gear and never shift from 0 - maximum motor rpm. (We'll see if this works in practice when the Empulse actually ships).

Quote
The Zero cannot do 88 mph, nor can it go 110 miles in the real world. These are not realistic figures and I suspect Brammo's Empulse nos. are off a bit as well.
I've had my S up to an indicated 85 mph or so - I haven't tried a true GPS-verified top-speed run, but I really should do so.

YMMV obviously applies, but Zero's range estimates don't seem to be grossly inaccurate IME. If your riding patterns look like the EPA UDDS test, I think you'd get close to the 114 mile range figure. I've been getting ranges between 55 and 80 miles per charge in (typically) 40-55+ mph riding.

It's impossible to make an educated guess at how accurate Brammo's range figures are (or are not) without final specifications. A 10 kWh bike should be able to get 100 mile ranges at moderate 45 mph type riding, which seems to be what they're targeting.

Quote
Still, a true 85 mph would be fine, especially if it gets there in a reasonable time. I haven't heard why they have had such a long delay in getting the bike to market. If it does in fact accelerate very well, go 95 mph or so, and have a range of 35 miles at 75 mph (which is commuting speed where I live), at $14,000 it will be very competitive with Zero. We'll see....maybe.

I don't expect the Empulse to land at $14k for the 10 kWh bike. I do expect it to have much faster acceleration than the Zero and highway range proportionate to the battery capacity relative to the Zero.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: blake on March 27, 2012, 05:16:39 PM
great article. thanks for sharing
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Lipo423 on March 28, 2012, 03:18:01 AM
I'm really curious to see the final Brammo specs, and I guess that there are launching delays for a reason...building a water cooled electric motor (and eventually batteries)is not an easy ride...Tesla had a lot of problems when they build the first Roadster with the cooling system, batteries & BMS (they are water cooled).
Do you guys know that the Tesla Roadster has 6800 battery elements inside? (model 18650)  :o

Zero has a very neat approach (naked electric motor) with a lot of limitations when evaluating future incremental power demand, but lots of reliability...the internal motor construction cannot be simpler.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: manlytom on March 28, 2012, 04:22:17 AM
First ever I heard of Brammo some years ago, then from Zero. Zero is the only company that delivers and improves each year. You cannot get better if you do not have decent quantities out there running.
Like the term "naked" bike in relation to the Zero - keep it simple and fun. great.

T
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 28, 2012, 04:32:02 AM
I started riding motorcycles and scooters 50 years ago and I can tell you that the number one thing that I appreciate is reliability.  All of my early motorcycles, up to the mid-1970's, tended to be nothing but trouble to keep running. Points would close up, spark plugs would foul, valves would float and constantly need adjustment, motor bearings and seals would fail, light bulbs would burn out, batteries would crack and leak acid all over, chains would stretch and break, wheel bearings would fail, clutch cables would break and on and on.  What I want as an owner and rider from a new technology that has a very short track record is something that works and won't leave me stranded.  As far as I am concerned, the fancy, high performance, cutting edge stuff can come later. I like the idea of steady progress using proven and reliable components - and it seems like Zero agrees with me.

It is a mystery to me how Tesla manages to hook up 6800 batteries without making at least one mistake.   ???  If I was doing the job, I would likely make 680 mistakes during the assembly.   ::)
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Lipo423 on March 28, 2012, 11:15:03 AM
That's what I wondered when I was told about it...I had an opportunity of spending two weekends with one Roadster for free  ;)

The battery -when you compare it with what it delivers- is a piece of art (56Kw/h in a very small package that delivers 215 KW of power -total weight is around 450 Kg) -they get them from Panasonic, the biggest Lithium battery manufacturer in the World...
When talking about Lithium batteries another tricky thing is the way -and how fhysically- you wire them (I mean connection like serial-parallel & very importantly welding among elements)...that's another "secret" that Zero has in his battery pack besides what we know about the chosen chemistry + BMS

TESLA Quote:
"Sixty-nine cells are wired in parallel to create bricks. Ninety-nine bricks are connected in series to create sheets, and 11 sheets are inserted into the pack casing. In total, this creates a pack made up of 6,831 cells. Appropriate cell temperature levels are maintained by a proprietary liquid-cooling system which includes sensors within the pack monitored by the car's firmware. Liquid coolant is pumped through the pack to enable effective heat transfer to and from each cell. The cooling system is so effective that the cells on opposite sides of the battery pack stay within a few degrees of each other. This is important for maximizing battery life, optimizing performance and safety"

Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: flar on March 28, 2012, 02:00:49 PM
TESLA Quote:
"Sixty-nine cells are wired in parallel to create bricks. Ninety-nine bricks are connected in series to create sheets, and 11 sheets are inserted into the pack casing. In total, this creates a pack made up of 6,831 cells.
There's something wrong with the math there.  69*9*11 == 6831, so the 99 is actually factoring the factor of 11 in a second time.

(And, sure enough, I double checked on their web site and those are the (mismatched) numbers they quote.  I'll send off a note to their webmaster...)
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Lipo423 on March 28, 2012, 02:50:08 PM
I have not made the math, so, I guess you are right.
I would really question the fact that they fully disclose 100% their way of connecting the cells...I would not do that...they do not say how though  ;)
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: dkw12002 on March 28, 2012, 06:59:15 PM
Speaking of cooling off the cells, I have read the new Brammo Empulse will have liquid cooling. Is the liquid cooling for the motor or for the battery, or both? Next question is why does Zero NOT need liquid cooling? Will we see problems riding in the hot summer months? My 2011 S fan comes on with any hard riding, and stays on up to 5 min. after I stop, which makes me wonder how efficient the fan is at cooling off the motor. Far as I know there is no cooling for the battery pack. Whenever I feel the motor housing though, even after a hard ride, the motor feels only warm and never hot. Of course my Agni motor has air holes in it and the bike weighs under 300 lbs. which may be how they can get away without water cooling. Is the 2012 cooling going to be good enough for the bigger pack and motor at 105 degrees F?
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 28, 2012, 08:54:13 PM
What has been reported about the Empulse is that it will have a liquid-cooled motor and battery pack. But that is just speculation and until Brammo finally introduces the production version of the bike, that is all we have - speculation and guesses.

My 2012 Zero has an internal motor fan that only works when the motor is spinning and the battery pack doesn't appear to have any cooling device. Hopefully, the components have been tested in the desert during the summer as they didn't get that kind of heat in Santa Cruz last year.  Around here, if we get up to 80 degrees we figure it global warming has occurred.   ::)

I think the way Zero is handling the heat issue is with sensors and the controller. If any component gets too hot, the controller just dials back your fun to prevent melt-downs.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Lipo423 on March 28, 2012, 09:49:12 PM
Yep, that's what I have been told, sensors for motor & battery...
I think they will have to look at this in the future, but at the moment range & reliability is on the table...whenever they will get to the real sports electric bike, it might be the time to look at more sophisticated cooling systems.

Richard, when I read your message about your experiences over 50 years you made me think...what a difficult time to get things up and running in the past...and now that we have everything, we complain...
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 28, 2012, 11:28:54 PM
I tell you, Lipo423, when I first starting riding, I always carried a tool bag, spark plugs, cables and other parts and expected to use them. The problem was that I had no mechanical knowledge and the rider's manuals were written in Japanese pidgin-English. Plus, I had never even heard of a factory service manual. Fortunately, most of the mechanical things were easy to access and to figure out, but it was still irritating to have the vehicle stop every 50 miles or so and to sit by the side of the road to make repairs or adjustments.  Everything is so much better now.   :)
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: dkw12002 on March 29, 2012, 12:12:13 AM
My experience with motorcycles and scooters is the same as with computers. If they run well at first, they will run well a long time. If they don't, often the problems never get sorted out and you are stuck with the quirks for the duration.  Glad to say my Zero has run superbly from day one. I do not plan to ride any bikes during the hot summer hours. Morning and evening rides only with 100 degree days. Hot weather is not so good for IC bikes either, especially idling in traffic. The other thing I do with all my bikes is run them every day at least a little. Almost all problem with bikes start out with the words, "I hadn't started my bike in a month or so when....." Stale gas in the carb plugging up the jets may be the no. 1 problem. At least we don't have to worry about that with the Zero.

Thunderstorms. I do unplug my Zero when thunder storms are predicted. What happens here is the electricity will be interupted a second or two, come back on, off again, back on several times. I can imagine that would not be good for the charger and BMS.

Brammo is an interesting Co. They started out as a car company and have a history of not bringing their concepts to market. The Empulse though has already been on the track racing. You can see YouTube videos of it. I don't think the Empulse of 2 years ago had the clutch and gears to shift as an option, but I think it had water-cooling. Their problems might be more along the lines of marketing and production costs rather than technical. They may need someone with deep pockets to help them out. Richard?
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 29, 2012, 03:58:24 AM
Sorry, dkw12002, I already helped out Zero.   ;)

Say, speaking of DKW's, my first car was a 1960 DKW Junior, with a 850 cc, 3-cylinder, two-stoke motor that was sold by Studebaker when they ran out of real cars to sell.
Title: Re: The Zero and me in City Bike magazine
Post by: Richard230 on March 30, 2012, 08:47:50 PM
I posted this link above in the "News" section, but in case you didn't see it, Motorcycle Daily has published the entire City Bike article here:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/md-quick-rides-2012-zero-s-and-brammo-enertia/ (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/md-quick-rides-2012-zero-s-and-brammo-enertia/)

What is just as interesting as the article, are the many comments that follow it. It is clear that motorcycle enthusiasts are somewhat polarized about the benefits and future of electric motorcycles.