Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[DonTom]

There is a post on Facebook of the charging curve of the rapid charge on the DSR/X and it took  an hour and six minutes to change from 0 to 95%. It was still charging at 7 kWh at 95% too so not bad in my opinion.

That is one thing I do not understand about charging EVs.


IOW, if the charge must drop to 7KW @95% SOC, when starting with 12 KW, why does it need to drop at all @ 95% SOC  when you start with a charge of 6.6 KW?


BTW, where I am charging right now, the max this j-plug can do is 6.3 KW.


-Don-  Truckee, CA

[LeverCommaJohn]

\
IOW, if the charge must drop to 7KW @95% SOC, when starting with 12 KW, why does it need to drop at all @ 95% SOC  when you start with a charge of 6.6 KW?
\

BINGO! I'd like to know this as well.

[DonTom]

I want to know if it is possible for me to install it myself or if special dealer equipment is required. Does anybody here know?  I prefer to do it myself, if possible.

I see the instructions for adding a 6 KW charger here.


It looks like the only issue is getting my hands on the "Diag4Zero USB to OBD cable" to activate it.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[LeverCommaJohn]

It's not just the software and cable (the easy part) that you need, but also the dealer level login which I believe is specific for YOUR bike. Gone are the days of a single "level 2" or "level 3", etc. password that works for all bikes. The FST platform is pretty locked down. A user can't even swap out for LED turn signals without this info. Someone please correct me if I have been mis-informed.

[DonTom]

And I just discovered we can order the Diag4Zero USB to OBD cable here, so I just did.


Looks like I will install my own additional 6KW charger to my DSR/X.  When possible, I usually like to do my own work instead of dealing with shops.


When I start this project, I will mention here how it is going from start to end.


But I have not yet ordered the charge tank. I have a lot of other stuff to add first, that I will pick up any day now, such as the centerstand, crash bars, travel trunk, side cases, etc.



-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

It's not just the software and cable (the easy part) that you need, but also the dealer level login which I believe is specific for YOUR bike. Gone are the days of a single "level 2" or "level 3", etc. password that works for all bikes. The FST platform is pretty locked down. A user can't even swap out for LED turn signals without this info. Someone please correct me if I have been mis-informed.

I knew that was a possibility.


I don't mind the $200.00 risk, but I want to know a bit more before I spend the 3K$ for the extra charger.


I was thinking that is a possibility, as my Triumph Trophy SE (TTSE) login is specific for my bike, with what they call the "dealer tool" which AFAIK, dealers do NOT use.  But I do have the code for my TTSE, which I had to pay for by sending in some random numbers the tool gets from my bike. I used it to turn off my stock TPMS so I can use my own external TPMS and just let the stock one go dead. The stock internal TPMS sensors were a hassle, because the batteries in it would crap out well before the tire needs changing.  And the stock TPMS sensors cost something like $300.00 each, as the batteries are NOT replaceable in the stock system TPMS sensors. The entire sensor needs to be replaced when the battery in it goes dead.

I don't know if I can pay for the passwords or numbers for my Zero DSR/X, but I should soon find out.

But the big difference here is the thingy I just purchased is made my Zero, unlike the "Dealer Tool" made by an Independant company that had nothing to do with Triumph. I assume that company figured out how to hack into all Triumphs. Zero, like Triumph, IMO, is a lot less likely to release such info.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[TheRan]

I wonder if there's some sort of legal avenue you could go down to get the password, along the lines of right to repair and not being purposely locked out of something you own. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a legal precedent with computers coming with unknown BIOS passwords from the factory.

[DonTom]

I wonder if there's some sort of legal avenue you could go down to get the password, along the lines of right to repair and not being purposely locked out of something you own. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a legal precedent with computers coming with unknown BIOS passwords from the factory.

What would be rather weird is if they sell a device to the public that cannot be used because of Zero not making a PW available.


Anyway, I will soon enough find out how all this works when I receive mine.


And I will post here all about that, of course.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

I'd imagine if you're riding far enough to run down the DSR/X then having to wait 2+ hours to charge is gonna suck.

Reading some older posts here.


I like to take a break about every hour or less, so if there is a charge station around, my charge time isn't all that long at each stop.  A two-hour charge time from empty to full does NOT mean every charge stop will be for two hours. If possible, it's best to stay in the 20% to 80% SOC range and then the time to charge isn't all that long.


In most cases, I enjoy the charge stops.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NoMoreIdeas]

\
IOW, if the charge must drop to 7KW @95% SOC, when starting with 12 KW, why does it need to drop at all @ 95% SOC  when you start with a charge of 6.6 KW?
\

BINGO! I'd like to know this as well.

For the battery to charge, you raise the charge voltage above the battery voltage. The more the charge voltage is raised, the more current is drawn from the battery. At some point when charging at high SOC, your charge voltage becomes the maximum allowed voltage for the pack and cannot increase (This would be where CC turns into CV). Voltage cannot continue to raise and draw more current, so the current falls as the SOC climbs. The BMS could also request to limit charge current at high SOC to accommodate differences in cell voltage, to protect cells with a higher voltage from going beyond their designed maximum voltage.

[MVetter]

Literally doesn't matter if you have the password. It requires a server handshake that only Zero and dealers have. Again: having a password doesn't do anything on FST bikes.

[DonTom]

Literally doesn't matter if you have the password. It requires a server handshake that only Zero and dealers have. Again: having a password doesn't do anything on FST bikes.

So why do they sell the thingy to the public?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

For the battery to charge, you raise the charge voltage above the battery voltage. The more the charge voltage is raised, the more current is drawn from the battery. At some point when charging at high SOC, your charge voltage becomes the maximum allowed voltage for the pack and cannot increase (This would be where CC turns into CV). Voltage cannot continue to raise and draw more current, so the current falls as the SOC climbs. The BMS could also request to limit charge current at high SOC to accommodate differences in cell voltage, to protect cells with a higher voltage from going beyond their designed maximum voltage.

So it because of the switch to CV, based on the charge rate to start with.


To me that sounds like a design issue that can be fixed. Perhaps will be someday.


IAC, thanks for the explanation.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

So why do they sell the thingy to the public?

I have no idea what you bought, and the page description is of no help.

[DonTom]

I have no idea what you bought, and the page description is of no help.

I assume you mean the description on this page. Well, I have no idea either, but I guess I will soon find out.


Probably a $200.00 OBD2 reader. I assume it must be good for something.


Anyway, I will post here what it is when I receive it.


BTW, I charged my Zero DSR/X in Reno to 110% and then rode it here to Auburn, CA  99.0 miles, driveway to driveway as measured on several different cars. But the bike says it is a few miles more on its odometer (103 miles). It used up 100% of the charge, I had 10% SOC left when I got to my driveway. This was all on I-80 around 50% uphill and then around 50% downhill.


I am glad I do NOT have to see a useless (IMAO) miles of range left on the screen. This bike is 1% SOC per mile at freeway speeds.


BTW, anybody here know what happens at Zero SOC on this bike?  Is there a limp mode? How many miles can I go when I hit zero SOC?


-Don-  Auburn, CA