ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: GrantMeStrength on May 15, 2016, 04:08:30 AM
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Hoping to see how much of a problem the brake noise issue is for 2016 models.
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Can we include the '15 too? They have exactly the same brakes and suspension and tires ... and therefore the same issues with the brakes. My '15 SR has a really loud rear brake (like a big old truck, kind of sound) that makes the noise at low speeds, from about the time the regen stops (10-12mph) until complete stop. The front is a little more quiet but still has some of that noise, only at the last moment before stopping fully. With hard application both brakes are quiet. Only noisy with medium to gentle application, which really means always, except in a hard or panic stop when I would not care either way...
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Can we include the '15 too? They have exactly the same brakes and suspension and tires ... and therefore the same issues with the brakes.
I don't see why not, if they are the same.
Maybe anyone with a '15 could note this in the comments, just to be clear? Thanks!
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My '15 FX no issues at all!
'16 FXS front lets out a loud groan just before full stop, but I kind of dig it as it freaks people out! The bigger issue is on light application front pulses. Not at the lever so I don't think the rotor is warped. I broke it in carefully and it seemed to get a little better at 200 miles, but I'm thinking about making a new rotor from very high quality material.
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My '16 DSR initially had some rear brake squeak when not applied, but that went away after a few hundred miles. I am at 900 miles now and all is quiet other than some strange belt noise now and then right as I come to a stop (under rear breaking only).
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My rear brake will squeak after I let up on the brake. Squeak goes away after if I just tap the break. Its been happening less as I put more miles on the bike.
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I experienced the same with my DSR. A little squeaking from the rear brake but nothing a quick little emergency stop doesn't fix. Otherwise squeaks have been a non-issue. I think we all notice squeaks and groans a little more because the bike itself is so quiet.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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Possibly, but a few of us hear a really loud squeal/squeak that is way beyond "normal". I know I do.
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Yes, I agree that the little squeaks and big squeal are much different, having experienced both. It's too bad that describing sound even using recordings is not effective over the internet.
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I've been reading, and somebody described it as a harmonic hum. Squeal doesn't describe it very well. Harmonic howling works well.
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I've been reading, and somebody described it as a harmonic hum. Squeal doesn't describe it very well. Harmonic howling works well.
sure they're not listening to the belt and motor pulse? i get a little "whobble" noise as i ride, but that i think is just normal. at least on all the zero's i have ridden, which is the entire '16 line up, plus the DS-P.
the weird, loud noise at the end is the ABS kicking in and keeping you from locking the brake.
spent a good hour sunday twisting it around a made up SM track in an empty parking lot. had no squeal at all when riding hard and only the interruption of the ABS to kill the silence.
if i notice a squeak it is more often in a slow, cold brake, situation. if i simply tap the offending brake quickly it goes away.
i currently have 330 miles on my FXS, it may change.
laters,
laramie ;)
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In my experience a low speed brake squeal is usually the result of some sort of debris lodged in the brake pad material.
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so I'm cautiously optimistic about my squeal. I had tried brake quiet goop on the back of the pads, and it made a minimal difference. My dealer, on recommendation from Zero, applied a different brake quiet goop to the back of the pads, and the squeal is 80% gone! I got the bike back yesterday and rode it home 7 miles yesterday, and to work 7 miles today.
So, I guess I would suggest trying a few brands before giving up on the brake goop. It's not expensive, I got some for $4.
I will try to find out what brand they used.
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I will try to find out what brand they used.
Please do! I didn't know there was such a substance.
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just talked to the dealer, they used CRC Brake Disk Quiet. It's a bright pink goo.
I had tried a Permatex product that was blue.
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That stuff needs to be applied to the brake pads AFTER disassembly, right? I can't just slop it around without taking it all apart..
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Correct. It's a 30 min job.
My squeal is back.
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Another vote for a low speed harmonic howl (it builds in intensity) with light braking pressure. Either my braking style has changed or it seems to be going away with mileage. I have around 900 miles now. 2016 FX. I tried cleaning the rotor with brake cleaner, which didn't help, and next I'm going to pull the pads and look at them for debris.
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Zero dealer put on new pads and rotor. Still howling. I'm about to lemon law this bitch. I'll report back with what Zero has to say on Monday.
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On my 2016 S the squeal seems random on braking, noticed a ton of brake dust on the rear wheel after only 600 miles.
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On my 2016 S the squeal seems random on braking, noticed a ton of brake dust on the rear wheel after only 600 miles.
I have the same dust on the rear wheel of my 2014S. Oddly, I very rarely use the rear brake, mostly just the front brake, leaving regen to take care of braking the rear wheel. That leads me to believe that the dust is more likely from wear of the drive belt surface, rather than from the brake pads.
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so I have to say, Zero has been giving me great customer service so far. Just didn't want to be too much of a negative nick.
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From my experience (your results may vary):
1. Proper bed-in of the brakes is extremely helpful to reduce noise. Basically, this is a series of 10+ smooth, firm applications of the brakes from approx 50 MPH down to about 10 MPH.
2. One of the unique aspects of riding a quiet motorcycle is that noises are more evident, since they're not being masked/obscured by induction, exhaust note, and a bunch of reciprocating mass.
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2. One of the unique aspects of riding a quiet motorcycle is that noises are more evident, since they're not being masked/obscured by induction, exhaust note, and a bunch of reciprocating mass.
Many of us have extensive experience riding: I've been riding 30 years for example. I've never had a bike with brakes squealing like this. It's not a sound that a petrol engine would mask :-)
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yeah, I'm really really tired of people telling me that the bike is quiet and that's why I can hear it. Just makes me angrier. It is a crazy loud howl. My wife can hear it loud and clear from inside the house when I pull up.
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they're now trying to use a tuning app on a phone to tune/detune the spokes.
nuts.
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UPDATE!
The new KLX 250 uses a rubber damper between the hub and the rotor. Part # 92160
http://www.kawasakioemparts.com/oemparts/a/kaw/52e6a395f8700225ac0d0d51/front-brake (http://www.kawasakioemparts.com/oemparts/a/kaw/52e6a395f8700225ac0d0d51/front-brake)
SF Moto tried this and BAM, no noise. Zero can't authorize a repair like that, so Zero is sending a wheel Monday morn.
Just an FYI for any DIY ppl.
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A rubber damper for the purpose makes a lot of sense. On my 13DS, I will say that it's louder than normal brake sounds by far, louder than the average engine and chain.
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After more than a month in the shop, replacing rotor, pads, wheel and adding brake grease, the howl is still there! Zero has called it quits. So i guess I'm going to try the KLX damper.
Zero said they're looking into incorporating a rotor damper into their front end system.
I'm extremely frustrated. My bike sat in the shop for over a month for nothing.
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The brake pad material seems to be the issue on mine. The material is just rough and noisy. You can see here for the EBC pads OEM alternative that I used - I replaced my rears and they are totally quiet.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5829.msg44363#msg44363 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5829.msg44363#msg44363)
Best part - it takes just 10 minutes to replace the rear pads, to the cost of about $25:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5933.msg44335#msg44335 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5933.msg44335#msg44335)
I've ordered the organic EBC front pads too, should be able to report next week on how they work out for me.
After more than a month in the shop, replacing rotor, pads, wheel and adding brake grease, the howl is still there! Zero has called it quits. So i guess I'm going to try the KLX damper.
Zero said they're looking into incorporating a rotor damper into their front end system.
I'm extremely frustrated. My bike sat in the shop for over a month for nothing.
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Zeros are not the only brand that sometimes suffers with brake squeal (mine doesn't and never has). I have been reading about it lately on some BMW model forums. So far it has always been on the "lower-end" models, that do not use expensive Brembo brake systems, like the G650GS and the F800 series, which appear to have Japanese-brand brakes. The reported solution seems to be to thoroughly clean the brake disc of any debris buildup (or replace it) and to replace the brake pads with an after-market brand, such as EBC, DP, Braking, etc. - until you finally find one that doesn't squeal. ::)
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i was starting to get a bit of a squeal at times on mine so i grabbed my air hose and hit both calipers with a good blast of air. i was surprised by how much dust came out and the brakes stopped making any noise again.
sure it wont solve all problems but cheap, easy, and worth a try.
laters,
laramie ;)
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i was starting to get a bit of a squeal at times on mine so i grabbed my air hose and hit both calipers with a good blast of air. i was surprised by how much dust came out and the brakes stopped making any noise again.
sure it wont solve all problems but cheap, easy, and worth a try.
laters,
laramie ;)
+1 I washed mine for the first time yesterday. Grabbed the calipers by hand just to make sure they were floating on the pins. Went for a ride and brakes were nice and quiet!?!
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I ordered the KLX part, and will document it's installation. I also noticed the Yamaha WR250R also uses a rotor damper.
I think this a known issue among the bigger manufacturers and Zero is just catching on.
See Ref #11 on the WR250R part diagram.
http://www.yamahapart.com/oemparts/a/yam/5004d823f87002275461ddca/front-wheel (http://www.yamahapart.com/oemparts/a/yam/5004d823f87002275461ddca/front-wheel)
The WR250 rotor uses a 6 bolt pattern so it wouldn't be able to be used on the Zero FX.
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My rear brake will squeak after I let up on the brake. Squeak goes away after if I just tap the break. Its been happening less as I put more miles on the bike.
This is exactly the same experience I have had with my 2016 Zero SR. Now at over 1200 miles and I don't notice it anymore....
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KLX part on back order :-\
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If you're willing to sacrifice a bit a braking power, the EBC FA181x organic compound pad will likely stop your squeal. I just installed those pads this morning, so far no squeal.
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I should mention that after about a month on the new EBC rear pads, they are still whisper-quiet and I think they stop very well. They were 100% quiet initially, after about a month developed some noises, similar in character to the noises I had with the OEM pads, but considerably more quiet and muted. Now more months and hundreds of miles, they are again totally smooth and quiet. Blowing compressed air to clean them did not quiet things, FYI.
EDIT. My front EBC pads were less squeaky than stock at low speeds, but had hissing character when braking at speed (where the stock pads were quieter at speed but very loud squeal at low speeds).
I just swapped the EBC front pads with Brembo carbon ceramic pads, and so far they are the best - no squeal at low speeds, quiet at high speeds too. Stopping is very progressive and seems strong. Will see how they do after I put some miles on them.