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Messages - Keith

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 18
1
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Cable to access BMS Diagnostic Port
« on: February 04, 2022, 10:08:23 PM »
My impression is that the harm done by higher charge voltage occurs over a long time period, not instantly. Store at 60% SOC, charge full and use immediately. But in any case, the transition point from CC to CV can be at whatever voltage is "good." And of course balancing is complicated and important, and takes time. I have a six year old Zero FX pack with two bad (out of balance but functional) cells. BMS won't let it charge. Ideally, charging for each cell would be separately and independently managed, but that would be quite challenging and costly to design. Anyway, I mostly agree with your points, nice to discuss.

2
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Cable to access BMS Diagnostic Port
« on: February 04, 2022, 05:59:34 PM »
Clearly this is a charging profile although it may be much simpler to create than it looks. But the charger could decide to turn off current immediately when full voltage is reached. It does not. It let's the battery "soak" for a period of time, surely useful for cell balancing near full charge. Integrating the declining current would represent a significant amount of charge, perhaps 100Wh or so in this case. It is probably a very simple decision by the charger, stop when the current drops below ~2 amps (caused by the gradual increase in the battery voltage), and not a regulated current/time curve. But regardless, a profile is created. Would battery health be reduced if the full voltage soak time interval was not done? I think so. Would a more sophisticated profile be even better? Possibly, only a lot of real battery life cycle testing could determine that. And as a practical matter, the person wants to use the battery, not wait indefinitely while a reluctant cell (maybe, given more time or a different current) reaches its "ideal" voltage. 

3
Chargers don't rely on the contactor. They supply a current that is reduced when the battery voltage approaches full charge, becoming zero when it does. Contactor can stay closed without worry during charging (with a smart charger like the DeltaQ).

If the resistor is fairly large, the UPS won't be able to run because its current draw will drop the voltage below its minimum. So leaving it connected may be ok.

Too many problems with your diagram to even begin, but I get the idea.

4
Your relay scheme will probably work fine. The contactors can handle a lot of inrush current, but without precharge the initial current is theoretically infinite, limited in reality by the wire, inductance and capacitor imperfection. The Zero will close the contactor with a pretty large voltage difference, including between two modular packs which then equalize instantly.  So precharge doesn't need to be perfect, but it needs to be.

5
Good luck! Be careful about the inverter DC input voltage, scalable might be batteries in parallel not series. Server grade is good stuff but transistor breakdown voltage is not forgiving regardless. Precharge is essential whenever a battery and capacitor are connected. It can be done with a resistor, I used 4.7k 5W if memory serves. The 16 FX BMS just checks the voltages across the contactor, won't close it unless precharged. 

6
Having the year ranges makes it much easier to know whether some salvaged parts might fit your machine, this is extremely useful, don't split them.

It would also be great to have information about equivalent interchangeable parts from other manufacturers, but that's going to be sparse and hard to find. For example I know this about the rear sprocket for my 2016 FX, don't know how I found it: equivalent to '03 - '07 KTM 85 SX (132mm diameter M8 4-bolt circle, 110mm center hole dia.)

7
I fried my 2.5kW inverter and I have not found a reasonably priced replacement. Inverters that can handle the full Zero battery voltage are rare.

8
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Wiring Diagram for 2016 FX
« on: December 21, 2018, 05:50:28 AM »
I do hear two clicks on my FX, but they are sometimes so close together that they sound like one. I've had broken connectors and used my ears to reassure me that both packs are on. You'll know they are not if you get half the range or lose power at high speeds. It can also happen that the two packs' SOC are very unequal and that should cause the bike to use only one pack until the SOC's are close enough to be connected together. The harness connects the packs directly in parallel so the voltages need to be close or a large current will flow as they equalize when connected by the contactors.

9
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Wiring Diagram for 2016 FX
« on: December 21, 2018, 02:19:53 AM »
The contactor is inside the pack connector housing and is controlled by the BMS circuit board in the pack. So power to or from the aux charge port only connects to the battery itself when the MBB and BMS processors together decide to close the contactor. That involves CAN bus communication triggered by the key switch and/or the onboard charger.

10
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Log file parser utility
« on: December 12, 2018, 08:26:19 PM »
Ah thanks. You've reminded me of my promise to write a more forgiving decoder. Not riding much lately so it could happen.

11
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Log file parser utility
« on: June 13, 2018, 06:54:40 PM »
One of these days I plan to write a very forgiving parser version that ignores structure and just decodes and outputs whatever it can find regardless of any corruption or sequence errors. This problem happens too often to ignore. Meanwhile, the sun is shining, time to ride!

12
Alta Motorcycles / Re: Alta at Erzberg Rodeo
« on: June 05, 2018, 01:00:09 AM »
Alta qualified for front row, made it to check point 8 in the top 20, but ran out of battery before the planned swap, dnf. Still very impressive. Only 23 finished out of 500 bikes.

13
Quote
fuse on the MY17 DS/S series he is talking about is really easy to access

Ah, not so easy on the FX, it's buried in the wiring harness. But if I want to disconnect MBB power, I can just push out my modular packs. That and a BMS reset gives all the processors a clean reboot.

14
There was a series of bad errors on 05/05/2018 11:46 where the motor controller was upset and the MBB said "Contactor Welded". This "Bmvolts: 102125, Cmvolts: 132687" might indicate more voltage after the contactor than the battery had, but I've never seen that message before and I've looked at a lot of logs (I wrote the parser). But maybe something caused a voltage spike to remain on the controller while the contactor should have been open. That could freak out the MBB and cause it to shut things down. But there was no charging around that date. The charging on 5/10 might be what you describe but the log ends without any sign of trouble. Maybe something was lost in editing or due to the commissioning.

Anyway a BMS reset might have fixed the problem too, possibly easier than removing the fuse.

15
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: DC Charging Options
« on: May 11, 2018, 02:35:37 AM »
I had to look. "Big switch" is an extreme understatement. Connecting four batteries in series or parallel to a charger or load needs a 4PDT switch. Here's a catalog http://www.filnor.com/pdf/Knife-Switch-Catalog-Full.pdf  A four pole double throw 600 amp 600vdc switch is in their standard line, in fact they have a few choices. However the weight of the "smallest" one is 65 pounds! That's the D-9746 on page 19. The base plate is 28 by 16 inches. You would also need another contactor to make sure there was no charger power while switching. And of course an enclosure for the whole thing.  ::)

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