ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Red Clay on October 30, 2020, 08:30:17 AM
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I must admit to riding too many miles with really crappy mirrors. Not any more! The new Doubletake Mirrors just arrived and I am very pleased! New look, decided to go with an alternative build and put an adventure mirror on the 3 in/76mm RAM arm plus extentions(one is left hand thread). Tilted the mirror up a little. They fold down and out of the way really well.
Ever seen this setup?
Ride On!
Red Clay
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I like the adjustability of the ball mounts but those massive stalks might affect your range, ha. Also did a double take when I saw the price, $120 squid for a pair!
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I've had them on my KTM for years. Hopefully the newer ones are better. The problem I had was that they'd move around easily, and I couldn't hand-tighten them enough to stop that. So I started using pliers to tighten them and they still moved around. I kept tightening them and the RAM ball plastic/rubber material started to deform and squish out of the RAM clamps. The damn things still move around in the wind.
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Thanks for the heads up on loose mirrors. Curious, tossing ideas here, do you think roughening the plastic on the RAM balls with sandpaper would help?
Red Clay
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Finally, an opportunity to share my one Zero hack. Well it's a ball joint hack.
Closed cell foam ear plugs.
My 2013 mirrors started flopping around so I took it apart and cut about a third of a plug off and jammed it up into the female section of the ball joint. They want to expand so they fill in any open space. They don't soak up water because they are closed foam. I can still adjust the mirror but it's nice and firm and wind proof.
For that setup you might try two full plugs one on each side of each ball.
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Excellent input. The experts shine again. Ever thought of changing your name to ANSWER2elec?
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Is the ball attached to the mirror removable? If so you could swap it to the bigger Ram ball. More surface area = more friction
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The ball is permanently attached to the mirror case.
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Ultimate Addons make these arms with indentations on the socket that look like they'd grip the ball quite well.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimateaddons%C2%AE-Motorcycle-Inch-Extension-balls/dp/B00ED2BBYU/ref=sr_1_91?dchild=1&keywords=Ram+Mounts&qid=1604355653&quartzVehicle=29-411&replacementKeywords=mounts&sr=8-91
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Here's a picture where my lower ball is being squished yet the upper still slipping.
Sandpapering the upper ball didn't help. I wondered if I could glue a piece of plastic sandpaper in there but haven't tried yet. The foam earplugs idea sounds interesting, hmmmm.
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Yeah, that squished ball has failed. It just needs to be replaced.
-Crissa
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I agree with crissa, that ball looks defective, maybe air pockets in the plastic. Doubletake may replace that, if not, it is fairly cheap. Me? I'd cut it in half and have a look. (after acquiring another one). Let us know what happens with that.
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Ok first, Curt you are one sure enough ball buster. You must be related to my ex girlfriend. :)
My 13 DS mirrors are set up a bit different as they use a locking round threaded "nut" to hold the mirror to the ball. It sits at the end of the ball joint where as yall's are set up to hold it on the sides.
The set up yall have will likely need to be undone and the ball pulled out and try to hold a plug or half of one rolled up tight and then quickly put the ball back in and start to tighten it.
Anything that adds uneven friction will help. I think sandpaper would just shrink the ball and smooth it further over time.
A rubbery plastic dip on the ball might work but again it can wear off in time.
I use those plugs when I ride so I know how they expand into your ear canal and then stay in place so I used it to increase the friction without damaging my mirror in any way.
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The ball obviously needs to be replaced, but that still wouldn't fix the slipping problem at the top end of the clamp!
If the replacement ball was hard plastic instead of rubbery, then I'd expect it to slip at the bottom end as well.
My theory on gluing in sandpaper is that it normally wouldn't slip at all, and therefore wouldn't wear at all. During a crash, it would slip greatly. It should take dozens of crashes before the ball was worn out (therefore it would last several weeks. :) )
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Having the balls different materials is making the spring not balance the load evenly. Which would make slipping harder to fix.
-Crissa
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Having the balls different materials is making the spring not balance the load evenly. Which would make slipping harder to fix.
The balls were originally the same size, yet it slipped. Given that I shouldn't have to use pliers to keep it from slipping in the first place, the product is clearly designed wrong. Are you arguing that it's not?
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Is that a legit Ram ball? Looks like it might have the logo on it but not sure. I assumed the rubber coating was only thin, there's no need for it to be thick enough to squish like that. I've cranked down on mine quite a bit (no pliers though) and while there is an indentation where the clamp was it's not squished as much as that and there's no cracking. I'll have had it 2 years in December and it's seen plenty of rain and sun, below freezing to just over 30°C. I'm going to replace the U bolt mount for one of the sleeker looking bar mounts soon so when I do I'll cut the rubber off and see how thick it is.
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It shouldn't be squished like that, no. Having a ball squish takes pressure off the other ball. It looks broken.
-Crissa
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Yeah it's like chop sticks one side closes the other side opens.
I know it may have gotten frustrating going loose but when something has a hand handle to tighten just use your hand and not tools.
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The design flaw is not that the lower ball is rubbery. It's that the upper ball is hard plastic, so it slips in the hard plastic clamp. For all I know, if the upper ball were also rubbery, then I could hand tighten it and all would be well.
I think RAM knows how to design these things and Doubletake doesn't. It's a fundamentally bad design to mold the ball out of hard plastic (Zytel) as an integral part of the mirror arm. (The shape, quality and durability of the mirrors otherwise is indisputably great.)
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No, it's that both need to be the same hardness. Unless the spring is offset. Then put the tighter end on the smooth ball.
-Crissa
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Curt, they are supposed to be able to swing in and out and to move if they are hit by a tree branch on the trail or pull them in for lane splitting.
I hope you don't feel your being chastised for trying to get your mirror to firm up by tightening it in hopes of getting it to stay put.
Stuff happens.
Which ever way you go to fix it good luck.
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No, it's that both need to be the same hardness.
Right, both rubber. If both ends were hard plastic, then both ends would slip for lack of friction. In a proper application, the clamps hold when thumb-tightened.
Curt, they are supposed to be able to swing in and out and to move if they are hit by a tree branch on the trail or pull them in for lane splitting.
That is the theory. Unfortunately, they move when you hit holes and rocks and roots, so they have to be adjusted constantly while out on the trails. The frustration leads to overtightening.
I also have the RAM balls that spin into the stock mirror holes. That looks great, except when you hit a branch the whole mirror arm comes loose and swings all around, ruining your ride, and you might as well have had a stock mirror.
Even if Doubletake did switch to hard rubber, the rubber might tear and wear quickly. Doubletake has a great concept, but it doesn't work great for enduro use.
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No, it's that both need to be the same hardness.
Right, both rubber. If both ends were hard plastic, then both ends would slip for lack of friction. In a proper application, the clamps hold when thumb-tightened.
Again, they just need to be the same hardness. This is a friction hold, and compressing the ball means any slip is going to add sheering which will damage the ball. My camera mount uses two hard ones and it's fine (my only problem is the screws keep vibrating loose).
-Crissa
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Again, they just need to be the same hardness.
Unfortunately, Doubletake doesn't make them like that and neither does RAM. If you know where to get a hard plastic 1" ball bar mount please let me know.
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Ram do make ones that are supposedly plastic, however only in M6 and M8 (and 1/4-20) and I assume you're using the M10 one. They do make ones that have an M8 bolt going through them instead of a threaded stud, perhaps you could drill one of those out to fit an M10 bolt.
However I don't think hard plastic is the way to go, there's just not enough friction to hold it. If it was me I'd try coating the ball on the mirror with some sort of rubber, perhaps the stuff you can buy to coat hand tool handles like pliers (Dip and Grip).
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My camera mounts are just plastic. *shrug*
-Crissa
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I have quite a few ballheads too, but they're all much bigger than 1 inch and have less leverage than that mirror setup. They also have a different clamping mechanism that applies the force over a larger area and finer threads on the clamping screw so more torque can be applied by hand.
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There are these thread adapters (https://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-diameter-Converter-adjustment-positive/dp/B07SZQ5572/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=motorcycle+mirrors+10mm+8mm+adapter&sr=8-6) 10mm to 8mm specifically for motorcycle mirror use.
But yes, I do have some Plasti-Dip I could try. I wonder if that would stick to the plastic ball or just envelope it. There's still the foam earplug idea too.
Either way, I need to acquire a pair of balls. Hahaha. Maybe we'd do better to call them knobs instead. :)