ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: SuburbanDad on January 03, 2016, 08:26:07 AM
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Judging by a couple posts in this forum, it looks like folks are offroading the FX... ? How capable are these machines offroad in stock form and how much low hanging fruit is there for improvement?
I just demo'd an FXS today and was pretty impressed. I wanted to demo the FX, but the dealer only had the supermoto version. He indicated it is the same bike with different wheels. I know he wasn't 100% correct because it was obvious that the front brake and rotor are different at least. Are there any other significant differences? Ideally I'd be looking at a 'redshift', but since it is not really available and is priced near twice what an FX is, am wondering if the zero FX might fit the bill.
My impression was with both batteries it was pretty heavy, and the suspension seemed like it'd be a problem for anything much more than pot-holed fire roads. Dealer did not know how to remove one of the packs so I could demo it in lighter form. As it was, I struggled quite a bit to lift the rear end of the bike. That is the heaviest 289 lbs I have ever felt. I seriously doubt those numbers. My old drz-s was 320lbs wet and I could drag it around with far less effort.
The rear suspension looked like only a few inches of travel before hitting the bump stop, but specs say 9" ? How does the FX suspension stand up to single track or enduro type use? I imagine running it with one battery as opposed to two would make a significant difference and one would want to dial in the suspension for one or both packs.
My current off-road ride is an 07 ktm 300 xc-w, and I know the FX will never handle as well, but I am wondering how close one could get without dropping a bunch of $ on modifications. The power is certainly there. And in sports mode, it feels a lot like a 2 stroke.
Weight and suspension aside, I had a real blast demo'ing the bike. Despite being below freezing, I managed to use up 1/3 of the pack before the cold forced me back to the dealer. Very fun bike.
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With a chain kit they are quite capable! Unless you are doing huge jumps (motocross jumps 15 ft plus) the bike will perform bascially just as good as any dirtbike, you trade power for reliability
Electric has a big advantage on small narrow hill climbs IMO more useable and controllable powet once you get used to it there is a learning curve because no clutch
Ill get some more video soon ive been out with ankle surgery.... Again
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If you want to do serious off-roading, keep your 300, but if you can afford it, get a Zero or KTM Freeride E too. That's pretty much what I've done. I would say that the Freeride E would be better to handle serious off-roading, but we can't get them here, so I bought a Zero.
Pros: The Zero is a two-in-one bike. You can choose to have a heavier, more powerful, longer range bike, or a better handling, lighter bike, similar in power and weight to the Freeride E (I don't bother changing suspension settings when going from two to one battery packs).
Cons: The Zero kickstand gets snagged easily on trail obstacles because it hangs very low like on old trail bikes. You can remove it, but you need to modify the sensor harness. Front brake disc is only 240mm, and it howls loudly when it resonates with the wheel. There's no guard to protect the rear shock(I made a temporary one for my bike). ABS is horrible and dangerous off-road, but you can pull the 25A pump fuse to disable it. You'd want to be careful doing log or rock crossings, so that you don't damage the controller(controller cooling fins to be precise) at the front of the frame. It doesn't have the same power at high speed, and won't do as high a speed as an ICE bike, it's better at lower speeds.
I don't do any serious off-roading on my FX, 'cause I'm worried about breaking something on it, but I do have a lot of fun doing adventure riding on it, because it's quiet, and I can ride it in a lot of places that I can't ride my other bikes!
One thing I really love about electric bikes is the lack of maintenance needed, just park it and plug it in! I still have the habit of checking the fuel price when I see a Petrol Servo while riding my FX, and have to remind myself that there's no point in checking it, 'cause I can't fill up there!
If you want to do a test ride with only one battery, the dealer just needs to remove the seat to get the "jumper plug", which needs to be fitted in place of the removed battery.
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One difference between the FX and FXs is the motor. The FXs has the new Interia Permanet Magnet motor, which means in simple terms that you can ride it harder for longer before it overheats and limits power.
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With a chain kit they are quite capable! Unless you are doing huge jumps (motocross jumps 15 ft plus) the bike will perform bascially just as good as any dirtbike, you trade power for reliability
Electric has a big advantage on small narrow hill climbs IMO more useable and controllable powet once you get used to it there is a learning curve because no clutch
Ill get some more video soon ive been out with ankle surgery.... Again
The FXS felt a lot like my DRZ. Far heavier than what I'd call a dirt bike, but really fun. Of course I never got to demo it 45lbs lighter with only one pack :( I hadn't thought about the benefit of unstallability. I'd love to see an FX doing some proper trail riding and hill climbs.
One difference between the FX and FXs is the motor. The FXs has the new Interia Permanet Magnet motor, which means in simple terms that you can ride it harder for longer before it overheats and limits power.
Good to know. Is the motor any heavier/lighter? Apparently the FXs has a couple less inches of travel up front - presumably for that sumo stance.
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I don't do any serious off-roading on my FX, 'cause I'm worried about breaking something on it, but I do have a lot of fun doing adventure riding on it, because it's quiet, and I can ride it in a lot of places that I can't ride my other bikes!
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Wow, super informative. Yeah, we can't get the freeride-E in the states either. But unless they are rating the motor for continuous use rather than peak output, 22hp does not sound all that impressive. Re: quiet, for adventure riding / exploring - that has got to be the bomb. Maybe beep the horn before coming over a hill so that other riders or wildlife get an alert :)
Great info about the abs. I imagine regen braking needs to be disabled for trail riding also.
Protection: how well does the FX handle being dumped? Plastics hold up? Are there skidplate options to protect the controller cooling fins? Or would that make it run too hot?
great info folks, thx
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I don't do any serious off-roading on my FX, 'cause I'm worried about breaking something on it, but I do have a lot of fun doing adventure riding on it, because it's quiet, and I can ride it in a lot of places that I can't ride my other bikes!
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Wow, super informative. Yeah, we can't get the freeride-E in the states either. But unless they are rating the motor for continuous use rather than peak output, 22hp does not sound all that impressive. Re: quiet, for adventure riding / exploring - that has got to be the bomb. Maybe beep the horn before coming over a hill so that other riders or wildlife get an alert :)
Great info about the abs. I imagine regen braking needs to be disabled for trail riding also.
Protection: how well does the FX handle being dumped? Plastics hold up? Are there skidplate options to protect the controller cooling fins? Or would that make it run too hot?
great info folks, thx
The KTM only has a top speed of about 80kmh, it has a transmission box to change the motor to rear wheel ratio, and give power at lower speeds, which also means the rear sprocket is smaller than on the FX, and less prone to snagging or being damaged. Going by what I've seen on Youtube vids, it has enough "go" for enduro or mx riding(probably only enough power to race against small class ICE bikes in MX). The all-electric KTM races look pretty good though!
Regarding regen and regen braking, the settings in sport mode actually feel very much like a 4 stroke, so there's no need to turn them off, unless you want it more like a 2 stroke! :) That's the cool thing about the Zero bikes, you can customize the torque, regen and regen braking to make it feel more like a 4 or 2 stroke! So it's really more than two bikes in one(referring to one or two battery option), it can be like almost any type of ICE bike you want it to be. I haven't tried riding in custom mode yet, but next time I go for a ride, I want to try some 2 stroke type settings.
Yeah, the no-stall feature is great for uphills, and for when you need to clear branches out of the way by hand or whatever.
I haven't had a good crash on the FX yet, but I think it would fair reasonably well at being dumped.
It does have a small bash plate at the bottom of the controller, but yeah, I think a big bash plate would affect cooling.
That's why I adjust my riding to suit the FX, don't expect too much from it, and just enjoy it for what it is!
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I ride the FX off road only. It's a great machine, although I never ridden a ICE bike before, so can not compare.
The most important upgrade, in my opinion, is changing the stock tires. I replaced them with dual sport dirt oriented pair - michlein T63. The difference is very notable.
Recommend visiting my FX facebook page for photos, videos & info regarding dirt riding the FX.
https://m.facebook.com/Zerofxebike/
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
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They have won open classes at holister againt all gas bikes....
Preston petty wins in flattrack with a zero....
With a chain kit and (knobbies obviously) they are not far off a ktm 250 2 stroke IMO and in some areas they are better than a gas bike..... Ktm suspenstion is tip top, but the new showa dirt stuff isnt bad at all, I beat the hell out of my 13s and they hold up, im not doing big jumps (Idchange to a crf front end if i was) and mone kore than keeps up. Ive hit some pretty steep hillclimbs ive never made it up on gas bikes.....
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Regarding regen and regen braking, the settings in sport mode actually feel very much like a 4 stroke, so there's no need to turn them off, unless you want it more like a 2 stroke! :) That's the cool thing about the Zero bikes, you can customize the torque, regen and regen braking to make it feel more like a 4 or 2 stroke! So it's really more than two bikes in one(referring to one or two battery option), it can be like almost any type of ICE bike you want it to be. I haven't tried riding in custom mode yet, but next time I go for a ride, I want to try some 2 stroke type settings.
Custom mode sounds cool. Clearly there is way more than enough power to loft the front wheel, but it seems eco and sports have power ramps that prevent it. Are power ramps one of the params you can diddle with in custom mode?
I really need to ride an FX in single battery config and see how different it feels. Dumb question - is the pack voltage the same running a single battery - does it have the same zip with just half the life? or somewhat less zip?
Thanks for picking up the slack for the dealer. The sales guy was nice but essentially clueless about the bike.
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I really need to ride an FX in single battery config and see how different it feels. Dumb question - is the pack voltage the same running a single battery - does it have the same zip with just half the life? or somewhat less zip?
Good description of one vs two batteries here:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4564
(http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4564)
Custom mode sounds cool. Clearly there is way more than enough power to loft the front wheel, but it seems eco and sports have power ramps that prevent it. Are power ramps one of the params you can diddle with in custom mode?
Unfortunately you can not adjust power ramps. FYI, you can preview the available settings anytime via the app's "Demo mode" (free app, no purchase necessary).
Another good discussion on some of these topics can be found here:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5311.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5311.0)
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Custom mode sounds cool. Clearly there is way more than enough power to loft the front wheel, but it seems eco and sports have power ramps that prevent it. Are power ramps one of the params you can diddle with in custom mode?
I really need to ride an FX in single battery config and see how different it feels. Dumb question - is the pack voltage the same running a single battery - does it have the same zip with just half the life? or somewhat less zip?
Yeah, unfortunately, the FX doesn't have that power hit at the bottom like the KTM E has, and it's not adjustable in the app. You can definitely feel that using one battery doesn't have the same "go" as two, but the weight saving is very noticeable, too.
Power specs for one or two batteries are on the Zero website. http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php) Yeah, voltage is the same, the packs work in parallel, so both options have the same top speed. Zero decided to limit voltage to 102v due to safety concerns, which I think is an admirable and good decision. If you demo a single pack, removing the front one seems to be the best option.
One thing I've thought of doing, but haven't tried yet, is to ride to the trails with two batteries, then remove and hide one of the battery packs, do some trails with one pack, taking advantage of a lighter bike, then come back and put the second pack back in, and ride home. The FX will apparently use the higher charged pack first, until they balance out.
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For racing level off road, you should check Alta Motors in San Fran
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Custom mode sounds cool. Clearly there is way more than enough power to loft the front wheel, but it seems eco and sports have power ramps that prevent it. Are power ramps one of the params you can diddle with in custom mode?
I really need to ride an FX in single battery config and see how different it feels. Dumb question - is the pack voltage the same running a single battery - does it have the same zip with just half the life? or somewhat less zip?
Yeah, unfortunately, the FX doesn't have that power hit at the bottom like the KTM E has, and it's not adjustable in the app. You can definitely feel that using one battery doesn't have the same "go" as two, but the weight saving is very noticeable, too.
How do you know this?
Like I've said before in this thread and no one listened....they have won open classes against bigger dirtbikes.... It all comes down to rider.....
If it can win a open class id co sider it more than capable of keeping up....
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Custom mode sounds cool. Clearly there is way more than enough power to loft the front wheel, but it seems eco and sports have power ramps that prevent it. Are power ramps one of the params you can diddle with in custom mode?
I really need to ride an FX in single battery config and see how different it feels. Dumb question - is the pack voltage the same running a single battery - does it have the same zip with just half the life? or somewhat less zip?
Yeah, unfortunately, the FX doesn't have that power hit at the bottom like the KTM E has, and it's not adjustable in the app. You can definitely feel that using one battery doesn't have the same "go" as two, but the weight saving is very noticeable, too.
How do you know this?
Like I've said before in this thread and no one listened....they have won open classes against bigger dirtbikes.... It all comes down to rider.....
If it can win a open class id co sider it more than capable of keeping up....
We're talking about using just one battery in the FX. Of course the FX has more go than the KTM when it has two batteries. I'm just judging by what I've seen of the KTM, comparing similar battery capacities, and considering that the KTM is geared much lower. I did discover tonight, using one battery in my FX, that it's easier to get the front wheel up from a stand still, and then gets harder to get up the faster it goes. It feels like it has a bit of a hit in power, and then drops off quickly.
The FX is winning pro classes??? I doubt it. I already knew that it's won amateur classes, before I even bought my FX, but it all depends on who you're racing against and the type of race. There's no freakin' way I could race the FX as hard as my other bikes! I know this just from trying to trail ride it.
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I agree with everything your saying but most pro bikes are built for a purpose, i have a fx that i ride basically strictly offroad, ive done numerous things on the bike side and programming side to make it more reliable when on the trail just as done with most motorcross bikes. When given to my neigbor who races as an amateur for now (hes still young), he loves it, it only lacks power up top compared to the 450s but these 450s are high hp bikes... And on the price scale they are also very similar.... (Not on the used market)
If you had a chain kit, or a 13 military mmx or your bike set up like thoes/ im sure you wouldnt be scared to offroad it as hard as your other bikes.
Im agreeing with you about the ktm being tougher in the end, it all comes down to the frame there, the ktm is still a fair amount stronger.
To race on the top levelor be able to performance wize keep up in a pro class is still a few years away IMO, the problem is its very hard to squeeze every last hp out of a gas bike, its easy as hell to tune an electric bike (for the right people just like building a high hp motor) you can bolt on a bigger controller program and walla.... To gain 30% power on a gas bike is extrememly hard.... Easy as a controller upgrade and well punching your batteries in the face 8) with said new controller...
At the rate the bikes are gaining spec numbers gas bikes will be a thing of the past in terms of short motorcross racing.... Right now they almost have the battery compasity to do a real mx race.... Just not the power at 50% soc, well kinda, they can...
You can drain A fx 2 bricks at wide open throttle in 30 min.....
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If you had a chain kit, or a 13 military mmx or your bike set up like thoes/ im sure you wouldnt be scared to offroad it as hard as your other bikes.
Maybe on slow, mild single track, but there's no way I'd hit big, high speed sand whoops or jumps on the FX! Even the KTM E doesn't have a full size chassis like their ICE bikes.
Do you honestly think anyone could race competitively on an FX in a GNCC or Baja race?
I'd love to have a fully race capable (affordable) electric bike, and hopefully they're not too far away from now, but for now, I'm happy with the FX, 'cause it's the only electric bike available to me at the moment, and I can have fun riding straight from my front door without annoying anyone. ZERO didn't intend it to be, nor do I expect it to be a race bike, it's just a fun bike to me.
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They are doing baja on a zero this year....
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They are doing baja on a zero this year....
The Baja 1k? Link?
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... ive done numerous things on the bike side and programming side ...
If you had a chain kit, or a 13 military mmx or your bike set up like thoes/ im sure you wouldnt be scared to offroad it as hard as your other bikes.
What kind of things have you done to make it more trail worthy?
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Zero and hollywood electeic have both said something
Look up
Monkeybuisnessproducts on instagram they are h
The ones running the bike
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To race on the top levelor be able to performance wize keep up in a pro class is still a few years away IMO, the problem is its very hard to squeeze every last hp out of a gas bike, its easy as hell to tune an electric bike (for the right people just like building a high hp motor) you can bolt on a bigger controller program and walla.... To gain 30% power on a gas bike is extrememly hard.... Easy as a controller upgrade and well punching your batteries in the face 8) with said new controller...
Yes, to an extent. The current battery tech limits the size of the controller you can use for the FX/FXS. The reason you get less power with one battery is because when you have two batteries each battery only needs to supply half the current as when you have only one battery. More current means more power and torque. The SR and DSR can use a bigger controller because they have 4 batteries to split the current load. Even though the FXS has the high temp magnets in the motor I don't think the bike could handle a size 6 controller because of the batteries.
The batteries I have seen that are coming in the next 1-3 years increase capacity but don't significantly increase C rating for discharge. Increase in capacity is great for obvious reasons but you need higher discharge rates to be able to get the most out of a bigger controller. Or Zero could up the pack voltage which would also decrease the current requirements but they seem pretty content at the pack voltage they are using right now.
That's not to say you wouldn't get better performance if you hooked up a size 6 to an FXS (or FX) but I don't think you will get everything out of the bigger controller without better batteries with a higher discharge rating. The BMS will protect the batteries from exceeding the recommended max discharge rate but you will really be giving them a beating.....to the face ;D
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... ive done numerous things on the bike side and programming side ...
If you had a chain kit, or a 13 military mmx or your bike set up like thoes/ im sure you wouldnt be scared to offroad it as hard as your other bikes.
What kind of things have you done to make it more trail worthy?
Changed tires obviously
Chain kit
Hand guards
Left rear brake
Rear shield for rear shock is not a bad investment
Bike towing kit
Dielectric grease all connectors
S motor
(Looking at changing front suspension to showa)
Rear has a fox shock
Mmx agressive pegs
Programming:
Mmx tune, (must do with s motor on fx)
Change isolation fault to ride through fault instead of hard cut then i cant get stuck waiting for water to dry on water crossings
I Used to enjoy a size 6 fx that was shortlived ..... Now im just waiting for zero to make it offically or somethin similar, I beleive the fx needs 30% more power, this creates the instant "snap" that everyone thinks these bikes should have. Not that they arnt fast already, i just always need more
I have also had the bike 100% apart and back together a few times, so im always checking connections re greasing, makeing sure its up to snuff
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In the end you are always chasing something if the controllr doesn't overheat the battery will if the battery doesn't overheat the motor will if the motor doesn't overheat you go all the way back to the controller it's a vicious circle part of racing
The 2 fx bricks can discharge 250 amps each.... Its more than enough to supply a size six id tuned properly.
Everyone always thinks that matching the amp (controller) to the system is always better I do not believe this at all!!! the bigger amplifier is always going to be better! Yes you're going to use a little bit more it idle and a tiny bit more on the initial start but overall the larger controllers are much more efficient at the lower amperages that they are capable of compared to a size for that is maxed out at 440 A mps. To FX bricks can easily take a size 6 all the way up to almost 550 AMps. Yes this is not the maximum potential of the size 6 but you don't need it to get 30% free Percent more out of the FX
Yes you're right you're not going to get everything out of a size 6 but I think you're underestimating the amount you will get and .....
Two of the new 3.3 FX bricks can take 100% of a size 6 controller so I completely disagree considering my 2.5's could take 550 of it when I was punching them in the face. Can't even imagine a 660 amp FX that is a bike that nothing will be able to keep up with! I always thought that the 550 I had was fucking bad ass. If I had a new 3.3 FX I make a real race bike!!!! I wonder what the fastest production 0-60 time is? .. Because a size 6/8 fx 6.6 would make a sr seem slow.... Stoplight to stoplight something zero cant have happen....
Yeah, I think we are pretty much on the same page. My point was just that there is a limit to how big you can make the controller before you need to turn your attention to something else.
That's awesome that you actually did it....why was it short lived? I'm surprised that a single brick can provide 250 amps....is that measured or did you get it from data logs or just a spec sheet somewhere? I was under the impression that the reason Zero doesn't offer a 3 brick SR was because 3 bricks can't provide enough juice to properly drive the size 6.....but maybe it can but they just don't offer it because of safety margin?
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Some electric race worthy off road bikes are built in Italy by Tacita.
Check their site:
www.tacita.it/
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Some electric race worthy off road bikes are built in Italy by Tacita.
Those look like cool bikes! I take it this company is still in the 'concept' phase (prototypes, racing, demo rides) and not actually producing any motorcycles for sale to the public yet?
Ray
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What kind of things have you done to make it more trail worthy?
For me, hand guards are an immediate must have (to protect me, and the controls when I drop the bike). Here's some info that hopefully helps somebody.
After calling Zero and Cycra, I learned that the $169.99 handguards available from Zero are custom bent versions of standard Cycra products. I was able to piece together an equivalent set for my 2015 FX, for a total cost of around $135 + shipping (or $113 if you skip the shields). Details below:
- Bars - $60 (I had to manually bend the right side to get around the front brake reservoir)
http://cycraracing.com/cycra-7006-12-black-anodized-aluminum-probend-crm-bars-black-plastic-bumpers/
(http://cycraracing.com/cycra-7006-12-black-anodized-aluminum-probend-crm-bars-black-plastic-bumpers/) - Clamps - $45
http://cycraracing.com/cycra-1361-12-probend-crm-center-reach-mount-1-1-8-handlebar-clamps-black/
(http://cycraracing.com/cycra-1361-12-probend-crm-center-reach-mount-1-1-8-handlebar-clamps-black/) - Bar ends - $8
http://cycraracing.com/cycra-1053-02-probend-bar-end-set-for-composite-and-alloy-probend-handguards/
(http://cycraracing.com/cycra-1053-02-probend-bar-end-set-for-composite-and-alloy-probend-handguards/) - Shields - $22 (I don't care for shields, so I didn't buy them)
http://cycraracing.com/cycra-1015-12-replacement-classic-enduro-handshields-black/
(http://cycraracing.com/cycra-1015-12-replacement-classic-enduro-handshields-black/)
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Some electric race worthy off road bikes are built in Italy by Tacita.
Check their site:
www.tacita.it/ (http://www.tacita.it/)
Yeah, they look nice. I couldn't see any info on seat height, weight, or price, though. It has nice features like a 5 speed gearbox, liquid cooling, nice forks and shock with HI/LO speed compression and progressive linkage, and 300mm front brake disc. I imagine it would be fairly heavy and pricey!
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Hi everybody,
in my opinion the FX has only poor real offroad Qualities compared to my KTM 500 EXC.
If you ride to fast in medium heavy offroad, the motor gets too hot pretty soon, especially with warm outside temperatures.
This comes to a complete stop, if you don´t descend your speed.
But the most worse is the suspension.
The fork is not very sensible and the it has no reseve, if you jump a little bit. (just for your info: My weight is only 70kg)
The rear shock is the same: You can adjust it to be sensible, but then without rest-resource for a hard hit.
Or you adjust it harder, but then without any sensibility.
A progressive rear shock mechanism would have been better here.
To all this comes the very water-sensitive bearings of the wheels and the rear swing. Maybe its only the retaining ring of the bearings, that do a bad job...
Anyway, I have now 3000km on my FX 2013, and I had to change two times the front wheel bearings and one time the rear whell bearings ans well as one time the swing arm.
I have to admit that I do ride in dirty, slashy areas too, because I don´t want to carry my FX over a water-puddle.
So my result is: FX is and motorbike with an enduro look, but better to stay on the asphalt or gravel street. And keep away from water...
Best regards from Bavaria,
Christian
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So my result is: FX is and motorbike with an enduro look, but better to stay on the asphalt or gravel street.
My 2014 2.8 'MX' has worked very well in the dirt for me, but I've done a lot of work on it (especially the suspension), only ride for short time periods (it's never overheated with one battery), and never take it through water. It's got 1,800 miles / 2,880km on it with no excessive-wear problems so far, but I'm sure I'll have to replace the bearings at some point.
The fact that it's nearly silent has also made it possible to ride in places I couldn't before, which is what I like about it the most. I'd rather have a good bike I can ride than a great one I can't.
Ray
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Great reports on your real-world experience Christian and Ray, thanks!
The 2015 model received upgraded bearings and suspension front and rear, hopefully addressing some of your top concerns.
Other than bearings, have you run into any other problems with extreme mud (loss of cooling ability, cleaning, etc)?
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Great reports on your real-world experience Christian and Ray, thanks!
The 2015 model received upgraded bearings and suspension front and rear, hopefully addressing some of your top concerns.
Other than bearings, have you run into any other problems with extreme mud (loss of cooling ability, cleaning, etc)?
The head bearing is different from 13 on... Its much bigger...
Swingarm bearings are the same, even though the swingarm is different from (13-14)/ (15-16)
Bikes with showa will have different wheel bearings than other years as well because the have different wheel spacers so im assuming they have different bearings than pre 15 bikes as well
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Other than bearings, have you run into any other problems with extreme mud (loss of cooling ability, cleaning, etc)?
No, not at all, although I've only run into "extreme" mud once on this bike (I was glad I didn't have the lower fender on that ride). The controller heatsink was nearly packed solid with mud, but the motor/electronics run much cooler in a single-battery setup and I didn't even notice. When I got home I just rinsed everything off with hot water as usual (avoiding the empty front battery-bay area), good to go.
Ray
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Finally took the 2015 FX 5.7 on serious weekend trip, along with my RM250 motocross bike. The location was Wayne National Forest (Ohio), which has 70+ miles of hilly clay/gravel trails. Overall, the bike was really a pleasure to ride off-road - better than I expected. Here is my report...
The good:
- It was a rainy day and I probably hit 50+ mud puddles with no issues. I'll admit, I was avoiding the deep puddles more than I normally would on my MX bike.
- The FX did 26 miles of trails with no issues, using both batteries. I finished the ride with 14% battery remaining.
- The bike climbs hills just as well as any gas bike I've ridden. I launched it up some pretty steep stuff - see picture.
- The layout was comfortable for off-roading. I did sometimes get the feeling that everything was about 10% smaller or more compact than my RM250, but it was never an issue. I am 6'0".
- I felt much more relaxed on the FX compared to the RM250, likely due to the noise difference, softer suspension, and lack of clutching/shifting.
- The lack of noise was nice, especially when stopped. I found myself being much more aware of the riders ahead and behind me, since they were so easy to hear. However, I quickly found myself taking the noise difference for granted. I think you just get used to whatever noise level your bike makes, loud or not.
- I found that my favorite settings were 100% torque and 50% regen. The torque pretty well matched the gas bike I'm used to, and the 50% regen was enough to slow me down on most downhills without needing to brake. I actually prefer 0% regen on roads, so I can coast, but off-road I find that I'm always either on the gas or on the brake so there was no downside to the regen.
- Front suspension felt great - factory setting were perfect for my 165lbs + gear.
- I dropped the bike a couple times, and saw no noticeable damage. The handlebar mounts shifted just a bit, but I was able to shift them back by hand without too much effort.
- Washing the bike was easier than I expected, as there really weren't many nooks and crannies filled with mud.
- Every one of my riding buddies was impressed/smiling after a quick test ride, even if there were a lot of jokes about how we could charge it for 8 hours while in the middle of the woods...
The not-so-good:
- I rode "all out" for the first 60%, then started to back off due to some "range anxiety." Under 20%, I started to notice significant power reduction, and by the time I finished at 14% it felt like the torque was cut in half.
- When I did get into trouble, at the top of a hill, I really noticed the bike's weight. Lifting and swinging the back end was significantly more difficult than I expected when I was tired and ground was slick.
- I once switched to eco mode to reduce wheel spin when trying to get the bike out of some mud. However, I forgot to switch back to high power, and subsequently failed on a hill climb due to lack of power. That was my fault, but really frustrating and something I'll have to remember for the future.
- Almost everyone who saw the bike asked "can you turn off those lights?" Answer=nope.
- Rear suspension was a little off for me, and bottomed out a few times.
- The front brake lever is HUGE, and sticks out past the hand guards. I'm nervous it or the reservoir will break when I drop the bike on it's right side.
For the record - modifications I've made to date include: Added knobby tires, chain/sprockets kit, mudflap, MX seat, hand guards, removed rear lights and mirrors temporarily.
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Great report. Thanks.
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Those look like excellent trails! I wish there were more steep hills like that around here - my bike loves them too. An '05 RM250 is pretty stiff competition, it's great the Zero kept up. I run 30% / 30% regen now - I can barely feel it kick in and braking is mostly from the brakes, which works best for me.
Re the shock - I guess you could just live with the bottoming, but if the spring rate is otherwise OK the best solution might be a new 2-stage bottoming bumper. I've never felt my 350-450 lb/in spring hard-bottom, but the bumper has definitely made repeated contact with the seal cap. :)
I had a different experience with Eco mode last week - I engaged it for an initial mud crossing, then forgot about it till I got home. My tires were shot and spinning a lot in Custom, so maybe w/less spin acceleration seemed about the same. I've got new Motoz Terrapactor S/T's on there now, can't wait to try 'em out tomorrow.
I pulled my headlight fuse and just use the running lights, but I never ride at night.
I couldn't find a shorty brake lever with an adjustable throw for my OEM MC, so I got an Emgo 30-64881 & shortened it myself (lever cut / ball end drilled out & JB Welded on / ground down). It worked pretty well.
Ray
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As always - thanks for the tips and tricks Ray! You seem to be a year ahead of most of us on the FX learning curve, and you've done some pretty clever mods. The few I've had time to copy have worked out well.
Enjoy the first ride on that new tire - those days are the best!
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Hey, no problem - glad to know the info is of use. The new footpeg-relocator adaptors are being done this week, then next up is the swingarm mod (30mm lower rear end w/no loss of travel) which is all worked out but may have to wait for the winter.
The Terrapactors work well ! Normally I tend to dislike new tires and then come to either accept or hate them :) but these seem pretty good so far. The edge knobs looked real aggressive like the Michelin S-12 XC mud tires (yuck), but they grabbed well in corners without catching on everything else, and the straight-ahead traction - both accelerating and braking - was excellent. They're also really lightweight.
Ray
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Can you elaborate on the footpeg relocator adaptor?
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Can you elaborate on the footpeg relocator adaptor?
The footpeg relocators move the peg mounts down & back 23mm. They add 16mm of peg-to-peg width and take away @ 10mm of ground clearance, neither of which will affect me.
My ICE dirt bikes all have lighter-feeling front ends than my Zero, which has its pegs mounted farther forward than any of them. The relocators put the Zero's pegs in about the same relative position as my YZ's pegs. I also wanted to straighten out my knees a little and make it easier going from sitting to standing (I'm 5' 11").
Ray
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Exactly what i'm after. I am 190cm, and the fx feels a bit small.
Bought the fastway footpegs for that purpose, but couldn't make them fit.
Any photos? Are they installed already?
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Any photos? Are they installed already?
No, not yet. Right now the RH one is being machined, then I'll check the fit & make small changes to the LH diagram if needed, and have that one made. As soon as they're both finished / tested / working OK, I'll post pics and diagrams.
If you remove the footpeg/pin/spring, put just the pin back into the mount holes, then fit the top of the footpeg's pivot hole onto the end of the pin sticking out the bottom, that's almost exactly where the peg will be.
Ray
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Will gladly buy a pair from you
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Finally took the 2015 FX 5.7 on serious weekend trip, along with my RM250 motocross bike. The location was Wayne National Forest (Ohio), which has 70+ miles of hilly clay/gravel trails. Overall, the bike was really a pleasure to ride off-road - better than I expected. Here is my report...
Great ride report. Fantastic summary. Pics really help illustrate the conditions - that is the the terrain I ride here in OR.
26 miles can be a long time on single track. How long time-wise were you able to ride?
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Glad the report was helpful. I know I was wishing for more detailed info like this before buying.
I wasn't keeping track, but would guess it was around 1.5-2 hours of moving time on the trail.
Wayne NF is mostly quad-sized trails (50" max vehicle width). They've made a lot of trail "improvements" in the last decade to smooth out the rough spots, which helps maintain relatively constant speeds.
http://www.waynenationalforest.com/wayneatv.htm (http://www.waynenationalforest.com/wayneatv.htm)
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Great thread with some excellent information. I'm new here and recently picked up a used 2015 FX. My first offroad range test yielded a result of 5 miles. The battery was still fine, but I snapped the chain landing a small jump as I grabbed a fist full of throttle. That was a long push back to the parking lot. :P
I have since done the chain conversion, which was a PITA but worth it. I bought this bike for the stealth aspects, as I live in California and don't always want to haul the bike to a proper park to ride. So far, I love the bike. I'm a big guy, so the first thing I did is have the suspension resprung. It's not perfect, but it is a lot better than it was.