ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Jarrett on May 15, 2019, 06:25:40 AM
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As many probably know, I've got a FX and I like it a lot but would like to go more miles than it will do. I've test ridden a SRF, a DS and today, a DSR+Charge Tank. Out of those three, I really like the DSR, but to the lack of L2 charging my area, the charge tank is a bit of a waste for me. So I'm thinking I'd like to get a DSR + Power Tank to maximize my range.
Does any have this configuration out there? 14.4 battery in a DSR + a Power Tank. What kind of range are you getting out of them at what speeds?
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I have a 2018 S with Power Tank and was able to get about 150 miles from that combination, one time last summer. However, my average speed was around 45 mph and I did a lot of slow climbing and coasting when going down hill. I would say that Zero's range claims for their bikes are pretty accurate. It all depends upon how fast you go. ;)
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As many probably know, I've got a FX and I like it a lot but would like to go more miles than it will do. I've test ridden a SRF, a DS and today, a DSR+Charge Tank. Out of those three, I really like the DSR, but to the lack of L2 charging my area, the charge tank is a bit of a waste for me. So I'm thinking I'd like to get a DSR + Power Tank to maximize my range.
Does any have this configuration out there? 14.4 battery in a DSR + a Power Tank. What kind of range are you getting out of them at what speeds?
The simple rule is to multiply the battery KWH by ten and there is your range in miles at moderate speeds under normal conditions.
So 14.4 plus 3.6 KWH pwr tank= 180 miles is what you can expect. More if riding slow, less if riding fast.
It's kinda hard to get range accuracy on a bike that gets roughly about half the range for each rime the speed is doubled. But the ten times battery KWH=miles works fairly well for motorcycles. But about half that in an E-cage. My Tesla has 75KWH of battery for a 310 mile range. But the Telsa is a lot more consistent with its range at varying speeds, unlike our E-motorcycles that vary greatly.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Thanks for the info. Still deciding if I really need to Zero's in the garage.
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I went ahead and ordered one today.
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Really hoping all these SR/F orders don't interfere with my delivery time :)
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Really hoping all these SR/F orders don't interfere with my delivery time :)
That could be a concern. I am not sure that Zero can manufacturer more than one model at a time on their very simple production line. ???
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I went ahead and ordered one today.
Keep in mind the power tank will add about 45 pounds up high and will throw off the balance. I really wish Zero would have designed the power tank so you can install it only when you know you will need it and leave it at home the rest of the time.
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Why not wait to see the size of the SR/F's power tank?
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I haven't heard any balance issues with the power tank.
I rode the SR/F twice and didn't like it as much as the DSR.
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I haven't heard any balance issues with the power tank.
I rode the SR/F twice and didn't like it as much as the DSR.
My 2018 S has a power tank and I agree that it does upset the cornering. It is a lot of weight up high and makes for quite a bit of inertia when dropping into a corner, which is kind of uncomfortable compared with my ICE motorcycles. So I just take it easy when riding fast around sharp corners. One of the issues that you have to put up with to have an extended range on a Zero.
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I rode a DSR with a Charge Tank the other day and it didn't seem top heavy.
Is that 19 additional pounds of the Power Tank really going to make that much difference?
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The difference between the PT and non-PT bikes on the website is 44 lbs, so safe to assume PT is 44 lbs.
If you do some searches here and ZMOG, you'll find the weight of the CT is 25 lbs.
44-25=19
That's why I ask. I rode a DSR+CT and it was fine. Is the additional 19 lbs of the PT really an issue? That's about 3 gallons of gas in a gas tank, which is not sloshing around.
I personally can't tell a difference in my ICE bikes handling from empty to full gas tank and they hold 5 gallons or 30 lbs of gasoline. if I can't tell a difference when my ICE bikes go up in weight by 30 lbs in 5 minutes, would I really be able to tell if a DSR+PT is 19 lbs. heavier than the DSR+CT I demo'ed and enjoyed?
I'm guessing not.
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All can say is that having 45 pounds of weight up high on a Zero chassis can be felt when changing directions - as well as when pushing the bike around by hand. ;)
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When I test rode the DSR+CT, the salesperson pushed the bike to the parking lot. I jumped on it and rode off.
The whole time, I was riding the bike I was thinking how light and nimble it felt compared to my ICE bikes. Not knowing it was a 445 lb bike the whole time.
When I got back, I left the bike in the parking lot and went in to talk to the salesperson. As I was leaving, almost to my truck, I thought, I should feel how easy it is to push around. So I went back and grabbed the DSR+CT and pushed it around the parking lot a bit. I couldn't believe how heavy it felt. Riding it made it feel like a very light bike, but pushing it by hand all the sudden made it feel much heavier than expected.
If the DSR+PT rides the way the DSR+CT does, I'll be happy with it.
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When I got back, I left the bike in the parking lot and went in to talk to the salesperson. As I was leaving, almost to my truck, I thought, I should feel how easy it is to push around. So I went back and grabbed the DSR+CT and pushed it around the parking lot a bit. I couldn't believe how heavy it felt. Riding it made it feel like a very light bike, but pushing it by hand all the sudden made it feel much heavier than expected.
Same goes for my SR with PT. Seems very light and not top heavy while riding. Not even when riding very slowly. Trying to move it up a slight hill by pushing it by hand is a MUCH different story.
But my little DS 6.5 with no tank of any type is easy to push around.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Just got off the phone with Zero.
They said a DSR+PT feels pretty much like a DSR+CT. And even though there is a SR/F-specific assembly line and an "everything else" assembly line, it might be a few weeks before I see the DSR due to the demand the SR/F is putting on them.
He also mentioned to be careful with the throttle on the DSR. During the test ride I tried to get the rear wheel to break loose a bit, but was unsuccessful. I did several straight line full power hits from a dead stop and couldn't get it to spin. I admit I was a bit careful getting on the throttle in corners, but towards the end, I got a little more aggressive with it and still couldn't find a rear wheel spin.
I wonder if the combined weight of me and the CT take kept the rear wheel more planted. Hoping that was the case, at least.
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Same goes for my SR with PT. Seems very light and not top heavy while riding. Not even when riding very slowly. Trying to move it up a slight hill by pushing it by hand is a MUCH different story.
But my little DS 6.5 with no tank of any type is easy to push around.
That's good to hear. My FX is easy to move around as well. It's light enough that I can grab the rear rack and pick up the back of the bike and slide it over when its in the bed of my truck.
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That's good to hear. My FX is easy to move around as well. It's light enough that I can grab the rear rack and pick up the back of the bike and slide it over when its in the bed of my truck.
What I really like about my little DS 6.5 is how it can use its own power with me walking with it up the hitch mounted motorcycle ramp on my RV. (http://www.addabike.com/) So easy to get up the ramp compared to ANY ice motorcycle.
-Don- Reno, NV
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What I really like about my little DS 6.5 is how it can use its own power with me walking with it up the hitch mounted motorcycle ramp on my RV. (http://www.addabike.com/) So easy to get up the ramp compared to ANY ice motorcycle.
I like that about the FX as well. I actually put it in 0% torque mode and just gently walk it up the ramp into the back of my truck.
I don't think getting the DSR in/out of the truck will be as easy.
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I like that about the FX as well. I actually put it in 0% torque mode and just gently walk it up the ramp into the back of my truck.
I don't think getting the DSR in/out of the truck will be as easy.
It should be just as easy, just let the bike do the work and be careful to not make and sudden movements (in either direction) on the throttle. I simply keep my DS 6.5 in the eco mode when I bring it up the ramp because the very slow speed throttle response is excellent as is.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I like that about the FX as well. I actually put it in 0% torque mode and just gently walk it up the ramp into the back of my truck.
I don't think getting the DSR in/out of the truck will be as easy.
It should be just as easy, just let the bike do the work and be careful to not make and sudden movements (in either direction) on the throttle. I simply keep my DS 6.5 in the eco mode when I bring it up the ramp because the very slow speed throttle response is excellent as is.
-Don- Reno, NV
I've noticed during my test rides that Eco mode on the DS models is much difference than Eco mode on the FX models. The FX has much more low end torque on tap in Eco mode than the DS models do. That's why I made my custom setting 0% torque on my FX.
When I test rode the DSR, I put it in Eco for a split second and it was so sluggish, I immediately switched back to Sport mode.
The Eco mode on a DS/DSR might be perfect for loading/unloading.
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I've noticed during my test rides that Eco mode on the DS models is much difference than Eco mode on the FX models. The FX has much more low end torque on tap in Eco mode than the DS models do. That's why I made my custom setting 0% torque on my FX.
When I test rode the DSR, I put it in Eco for a split second and it was so sluggish, I immediately switched back to Sport mode.
The Eco mode on a DS/DSR might be perfect for loading/unloading.
OIC. FWIW, in the eco mode, my DS 6.5 has a lot more guts than my SR. But that changes to the opposite in the sport mode.
Since I ride much like a little old lady, at least 95% of my riding on either bike is in the eco mode. I normally take slow but shorter ways (when possible) to go places when I am on my E-bikes. Perhaps that's why I am always happy with my range on these bikes. I often do better than Zero's city spec for range on a charge.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I would probably be happier with the range on mine if I rode like that.
I'm always like, 'let's see if we can get the front wheel up again!" :)
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I'll add my 2c:
I own a 2016 DSR with PT. I've spun up the rear wheel on my 2013 DS, but not the DSR, partly from experience and partly because I use a crampbuster to help me stay aware of the throttle position and not accidentally torque it too much. The PT is indeed pretty hefty and does make the bike harder to lift if you drop it, but handling is fine. I always ride in Custom mode (100% torque, 0-20% coasting regen, 100% brake regen).
My bike also has a Hollywood Electrics fairing, a Corbin trunk for the Concours 14, 5 DigiNow units (3 in the pan and 2 on the side), and a reverse mode switch. My range varies between 100 (cold day into a heavy headwind) and 135 miles (warm day with no adverse winds or rain). My range is at least 150 miles at about 45mph.
I've logged about 40,000 miles now on the DSR, with 26,000 miles on the 2013 DS.
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Just got off the phone with Zero.
They said a DSR+PT feels pretty much like a DSR+CT. And even though there is a SR/F-specific assembly line and an "everything else" assembly line, it might be a few weeks before I see the DSR due to the demand the SR/F is putting on them.
He also mentioned to be careful with the throttle on the DSR. During the test ride I tried to get the rear wheel to break loose a bit, but was unsuccessful. I did several straight line full power hits from a dead stop and couldn't get it to spin. I admit I was a bit careful getting on the throttle in corners, but towards the end, I got a little more aggressive with it and still couldn't find a rear wheel spin.
I wonder if the combined weight of me and the CT take kept the rear wheel more planted. Hoping that was the case, at least.
That's interesting because my dsr with no ct or pt will spin-out everytime I want to from a start, even when i punch it at 30mph, and I'm pretty heavy at 220 pounds. It doesn't spin out nearly as much since I switched tires to Bridgestone Battlax Adventure 41f, but still does. I'm pretty sure Zero doesn't allow full torque from a stop for safety reasons and maybe the programming is different between 2017 and 2019, retarding the torque even more. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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I'll add my 2c:
I own a 2016 DSR with PT. I've spun up the rear wheel on my 2013 DS, but not the DSR, partly from experience and partly because I use a crampbuster to help me stay aware of the throttle position and not accidentally torque it too much. The PT is indeed pretty hefty and does make the bike harder to lift if you drop it, but handling is fine. I always ride in Custom mode (100% torque, 0-20% coasting regen, 100% brake regen).
My bike also has a Hollywood Electrics fairing, a Corbin trunk for the Concours 14, 5 DigiNow units (3 in the pan and 2 on the side), and a reverse mode switch. My range varies between 100 (cold day into a heavy headwind) and 135 miles (warm day with no adverse winds or rain). My range is at least 150 miles at about 45mph.
I've logged about 40,000 miles now on the DSR, with 26,000 miles on the 2013 DS.
Just out of curiousity, how much does your bike weigh with all that extra stuff? And how fast can you drive to get that 135 mile range? I wish I can do that?
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I'll add my 2c:
I own a 2016 DSR with PT. I've spun up the rear wheel on my 2013 DS, but not the DSR, partly from experience and partly because I use a crampbuster to help me stay aware of the throttle position and not accidentally torque it too much. The PT is indeed pretty hefty and does make the bike harder to lift if you drop it, but handling is fine. I always ride in Custom mode (100% torque, 0-20% coasting regen, 100% brake regen).
My bike also has a Hollywood Electrics fairing, a Corbin trunk for the Concours 14, 5 DigiNow units (3 in the pan and 2 on the side), and a reverse mode switch. My range varies between 100 (cold day into a heavy headwind) and 135 miles (warm day with no adverse winds or rain). My range is at least 150 miles at about 45mph.
I've logged about 40,000 miles now on the DSR, with 26,000 miles on the 2013 DS.
Just out of curiousity, how much does your bike weigh with all that extra stuff? And how fast can you drive to get that 135 mile range? I wish I can do that?
I think it’s just shy of 500lbs. Each charging unit weighs about 7lbs, and the 44lb weight of the PT is noted above. Add in the case and structural bracing for it and the fairing and the pan should add up at or near 500lbs.
It should have a larger fairing on it which would definitely push it over 500, but I have to rework my mount for that to accommodate the charging pan and side units.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190521/04d232a900ecc569212ac6f90b752b9b.jpg)
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Looks good!
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Thanks for the additional info.
I have to say I'm hesitant about spending $20k on a bike that I might low side at any point.
I have been watching Pinaero's youtube chronicles about his DSR. During his 8,000 mile review, he posted that he low sided his bike in the way that most people report it.
From a stop, accelerating through a left turn, rear tire spun up unexpectedly and down he went damaging himself and the bike. It seems to be a recurring theme with the SR/DSR bikes.
I don't mind stories about people low siding them on a demo ride. The reason this story stuck with me is he has been riding this bike for 8.000 miles and knows what to expect from it at this point, but lost focus for a second and down he went. Which means you can never really get comfortable with the bike and cut loose on it, it sounds. Always have to keep that power in check by either wrist control, cramp buster, custom low torque settings, etc.
It makes me wonder, why buy it if you can't use it?
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Thanks for the additional info.
I have to say I'm hesitant about spending $20k on a bike that I might low side at any point.
I have been watching Pinaero's youtube chronicles about his DSR. During his 8,000 mile review, he posted that he low sided his bike in the way that most people report it.
From a stop, accelerating through a left turn, rear tire spun up unexpectedly and down he went damaging himself and the bike. It seems to be a recurring theme with the SR/DSR bikes.
I don't mind stories about people low siding them on a demo ride. The reason this story stuck with me is he has been riding this bike for 8.000 miles and knows what to expect from it at this point, but lost focus for a second and down he went. Which means you can never really get comfortable with the bike and cut loose on it, it sounds. Always have to keep that power in check by either wrist control, cramp buster, custom low torque settings, etc.
It makes me wonder, why buy it if you can't use it?
The rear wheel on my S spun up once when I was one a wet and slippery tight right-hand turn freeway on-ramp. The entire bike shook violently for a second or two before I backed off on the throttle and the chassis stabilized. I did not fall over. However, I could see this happening on an SR if you are not careful and I can certainly understand why Zero decided to put traction-control on the SR/F. Because of the lack of the flywheel effect that you get from most ICE motorcycles it is hard to keep the rear wheel from spinning under slippery conditions if you are not careful. So just take it easy when the streets are wet and slippery and you should be fine. If you are a throttle-whacker under those conditions then you will suffer the School of Hard Knocks. ;)
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I’ve recovered from every traction loss on a Zero I’ve had, by focusing on balance through the footpegs, gentle damping through the handlebars, and quickly easing off the throttle.
I’ve written it up on the unofficial manual.
I’m not afraid of it at all now, and it just doesn’t happen once you’re acclimated to the bike in wet weather, particularly soon after a rain starts after a dry spell, when surface oils on the road come up but haven’t washed away yet.
Everyone has valid comfort zones, but personally, I think this issue once confronted and trained for can be nearly forgotten on a Zero.
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I appreciate that. Quells the concern a bit.
I've ridden the FX, DS, DSR, SR/F (without traction control and SR/F (with traction control) so far and the only bike that surprised me during the test ride was the SR/F without traction control. It stepped out on me very easily on dry smooth pavement, but I felt it and countered it and stayed up.
Frankly, I don't plan on getting on the DSR if the roads are wet. I'll take an ICE bike out that day. The DSR will just be a good weather fun bike for the most part. At least initially.
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Just heard that my DSR will ship mid June. Guessing pickup near 1st of July. Which is fine with me, as it gives me more time to sell my Africa Twin, which it is replacing.
Apparently, the 2019 model DSR exceeded their expectations for sales and the one they are building for my order will be the last 2019 model DSR built. Meaning, only demo's will be left for sale going forward. No word on what the 2020 DSR will look like yet.