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[JaimeC]

FWIW, my ICE bikes slow down a HELL of a lot quicker than my Zero (even at full regen) when I roll off the throttle.

ICE engine braking is best done at low RPMs, though, where you're not stressing it (probably clutch plates mainly) as much. I try to use a higher gear.

After a while, I've gotten used to the 0-100% regen step using the brake lever. Linearity would be nice, and hopefully I can achieve that soon (finally).

meanwhile I clutch up wheelies, match rev downshift on the street to slow, use a slipper clutch for the track, etc..

I still get 80k miles to a clutch (unless its a ducati)... And then I just change the clutch.

I replaced my first clutch on my K1200LT at 160,000 miles.  The new one has 40,000 on it now.  I don't think I'm hard on clutches at all. 

[Kocho]

Earlier in the thread I wrote my custom settings were at about 60% no-brake regen and 100% brake regen. Well, I've come to a conclusion I prefer small or no regen without the brake and 100% brake regen. The reason is I noticed that I had started to rely on no-brake regen too much to slow me down. So I'm not even grabbing the brake to be ready to use it if the situation changes and I would also need to use the brake. Unfortunately, the good level of no-brake regen resulted in me being lazy and not getting my fingers around the brake lever to be ready instantly to use it and before I need to use it. So when I do need to use the brake it takes a split second longer to grab it.

With low no-brake regen setting, I am forced to gently squeeze the brake to intentionally start using brake regen. This way my fingers/foot are ready to apply the brake more if needed. Plus, I always get my brake light to shine as soon as I initiate brake regen, so folks behind me are not surprised by me slowing down through regen only. I think this is a safer practice than not being ready to apply the brakes and not alerting folks behind me as is the case with big no-brake regen.

With 6% no-brake regen, the 100% brake regen phase seems reasonably smooth to engage. I might try 0% again, something I did not like initially due to the somewhat abrupt initiation of brake regen in this case - my sensitivity to this might have changed though since the last time I tried this setting, so I'll report back if that is the case.

[stevenh]

Earlier in the thread I wrote my custom settings were at about 60% no-brake regen and 100% brake regen. Well, I've come to a conclusion I prefer small or no regen without the brake and 100% brake regen. The reason is I noticed that I had started to rely on no-brake regen too much to slow me down. So I'm not even grabbing the brake to be ready to use it if the situation changes and I would also need to use the brake. Unfortunately, the good level of no-brake regen resulted in me being lazy and not getting my fingers around the brake lever to be ready instantly to use it and before I need to use it. So when I do need to use the brake it takes a split second longer to grab it.

With low no-brake regen setting, I am forced to gently squeeze the brake to intentionally start using brake regen. This way my fingers/foot are ready to apply the brake more if needed. Plus, I always get my brake light to shine as soon as I initiate brake regen, so folks behind me are not surprised by me slowing down through regen only. I think this is a safer practice than not being ready to apply the brakes and not alerting folks behind me as is the case with big no-brake regen.

With 6% no-brake regen, the 100% brake regen phase seems reasonably smooth to engage. I might try 0% again, something I did not like initially due to the somewhat abrupt initiation of brake regen in this case - my sensitivity to this might have changed though since the last time I tried this setting, so I'll report back if that is the case.

I've done the same.  I was running 100% regen on no-brake and brake.  I've moved to 0% regen on no-brake and 100% on brake.  As soon as I made the change to 0%, I noticed how much I had begun to rely on the regen breaking (not a good thing).

Steve

[MrDude_1]

I've done the same.  I was running 100% regen on no-brake and brake.  I've moved to 0% regen on no-brake and 100% on brake.  As soon as I made the change to 0%, I noticed how much I had begun to rely on the regen breaking (not a good thing).

Steve

why do you consider it not a good thing?

its free power back into the battery.
the bike is more stable when its under active acceleration or deceleration, instead of coasting.
it makes descents into charging helpers.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

While I have switched to a 0% regen / 100% brake regen setting, it is definitely not a bad thing to have regen by default - it makes the bike slow down earlier once you let go of throttle, which makes some difference in stopping distance before coming onto the brakes.

I mean, if you literally avoided using your brakes, that would be "not a good thing". But early regen is safer.

For why I switched, I just realized that I much prefer switching regen with a finger-touch to get a brake signal. It's a tradeoff.

[stevenh]

While I have switched to a 0% regen / 100% brake regen setting, it is definitely not a bad thing to have regen by default - it makes the bike slow down earlier once you let go of throttle, which makes some difference in stopping distance before coming onto the brakes.

I mean, if you literally avoided using your brakes, that would be "not a good thing". But early regen is safer.

For why I switched, I just realized that I much prefer switching regen with a finger-touch to get a brake signal. It's a tradeoff.

The "Not a Good Thing" part was my not covering the brake(s) when I probably should have been since I got used to the regen breaking.

Steve

[DynoMutt]

I set my custom mode to :

30% torque
67MPH top speed
100% regen on zero throttle

I use regen to save on the brakes a bit, and capping at 67MPH allows me to get to/from work without burning off all my charge.  When I leave it in custom the whole time, I usually have about 30% remaining on a high-traffic day.  When I go home, I flip into sport mode when I hit the last 10 miles that are all 3-lane slab.  I can safely burn off about 15-20% of my charge on that leg and get home with 5-10% SOC.  That new upside-down Chinese windscreen makes a big difference, I reckon.  I think I can save ~5% charge on that 70-80MPH leg by compressing behind the windscreen.

[c-fut]

Anyone know what the settings on the sport and eco mode are? I would like to try the sport torque with the eco regen on my custom mode.

[Kocho]

I don't know the numbers for "sport",  but power should be 100%, no braking regen feels less than eco (probably 50% at best), and brake regen is less than 100%, probably 75% or less. That's just by feel on my SR. My guess is that Zero did not maximize regen on sport mode with the idea that if they did, they'd overstress the battery and motor to do too much regen during spirited driving, causing things to overheat, plus the bike is smoother with less regen.

I'm at 1,500 miles now (only 1,000 are mine) and I just switched my custom to 100% power, 0 regen, 100% brake regen. Seems the most convenient setting as I can coast if I need to take my hands off the handlebars, yet still have full regen if I want it. And I am now comfortable with having full power at my disposal, so unless it is slippery, I no longer feel the need to set reduced power in custom...

Anyone know what the settings on the sport and eco mode are? I would like to try the sport torque with the eco regen on my custom mode.

[Richard230]

I don't know the numbers for "sport",  but power should be 100%, no braking regen feels less than eco (probably 50% at best), and brake regen is less than 100%, probably 75% or less. That's just by feel on my SR. My guess is that Zero did not maximize regen on sport mode with the idea that if they did, they'd overstress the battery and motor to do too much regen during spirited driving, causing things to overheat, plus the bike is smoother with less regen.

I'm at 1,500 miles now (only 1,000 are mine) and I just switched my custom to 100% power, 0 regen, 100% brake regen. Seems the most convenient setting as I can coast if I need to take my hands off the handlebars, yet still have full regen if I want it. And I am now comfortable with having full power at my disposal, so unless it is slippery, I no longer feel the need to set reduced power in custom...

Anyone know what the settings on the sport and eco mode are? I would like to try the sport torque with the eco regen on my custom mode.

My guess is that Zero minimizes the regen because they are concerned about the rear wheel skidding on wet pavement. I don't think the batteries would be bothered in the least by increased regen power production.

[Kocho]

I don't think so. The chance of the rear wheel sliding I think is much larger due to the brisk acceleration in sport mode. With the non-IPM motor it already can't keep-up with spirited acceleration and when you add strong regeneration, it gets overheated even more. Same for the battery - it does get noticeably warmer with spirited riding, which is not good for it in the log term. I think the decreased regen in sport mode is due to the sub-par performance of the motor and temperature control for the battery and possibly the controller more than anything else.

I don't know the numbers for "sport",  but power should be 100%, no braking regen feels less than eco (probably 50% at best), and brake regen is less than 100%, probably 75% or less. That's just by feel on my SR. My guess is that Zero did not maximize regen on sport mode with the idea that if they did, they'd overstress the battery and motor to do too much regen during spirited driving, causing things to overheat, plus the bike is smoother with less regen.

I'm at 1,500 miles now (only 1,000 are mine) and I just switched my custom to 100% power, 0 regen, 100% brake regen. Seems the most convenient setting as I can coast if I need to take my hands off the handlebars, yet still have full regen if I want it. And I am now comfortable with having full power at my disposal, so unless it is slippery, I no longer feel the need to set reduced power in custom...

Anyone know what the settings on the sport and eco mode are? I would like to try the sport torque with the eco regen on my custom mode.

My guess is that Zero minimizes the regen because they are concerned about the rear wheel skidding on wet pavement. I don't think the batteries would be bothered in the least by increased regen power production.

[JaimeC]

I can't imagine the current sent to the battery from deceleration regen is anywhere NEAR as strong as the current the battery receives from a quick charger.  I doubt that's an issue.

[Kocho]

I would bet the two are close. My gut feeling is that the amount of deceleration due to regen is equivalent to something like 60-90 Amps of current. I had a Vectrix where I could see in real time on my display the current due to regeneration, and I think the Zero decelerates at least as hard at 100% regen. The Vectrix was generating a lot more than 60+ A at highway speeds during regeneration. The quick chargers are doing about the same, maybe up to about 100A for the DigiNow.

Yes, it won't damage the battery, it will warm it-up. That, combined with the much higher draw during acceleration is just something that contributes meaningfully, I think.

Nothing is going to break from extra regen, it just adds to an already stressed battery and motor/controller. As I said, the motor itself (the non-IPM version at least) can't keep-up with even constant speeds of 80mph or so on a hot day, adding max regen in the mix takes away even the little opportunity for it to cool off while decelerating

I can't imagine the current sent to the battery from deceleration regen is anywhere NEAR as strong as the current the battery receives from a quick charger.  I doubt that's an issue.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The amount of warmup from regen (let's say it's 0.3C) will be dwarfed by the amount of power used just going at highway speeds (1-2C). Be concerned about your drag and average speed well before being concerned about regen effects.

In oily conditions, I've fishtailed many times from the throttle and never even close from regen, either. In that scenario, I want 100% regen because I can count on it to reliably bring my speed down sooner and more carefully than I can always brake.

[MorbidBBQ]

   75% torque, 6% regen. The bike's next owner can rest assured that I, at least never rode it at 100% torque.

Thats like telling your prom date to save herself for the next guy.