ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: belac on November 27, 2018, 03:46:38 AM
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hello,
i recently purchased a 2017 zero fxs for commuting (seattle) and a little offroad fun. I had test rode the S but they didnt have an fxs at the time. I have been riding it around the neighborhood and getting used to it a bit before i start riding it to work. I was riding yesterday and thought i would briefly see how fast i could go. I could not go over 45mph! it was at maybe 40% charge and i read that when its cold and lower state of charge power is reduced so i charged it up and tried again yesterday and i could not go over 50mph. this is a pretty big deal. i am ok if it takes longer to get up to speed but to be unable to even do hwy speeds makes it essentially useless to me. is this behavior expected? I have been trying to find anything specific about cold weather performance but everything from Zero is extremely vague.
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fyi - it has the latest firmware
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Make sure you are in the right mode. The bike has the ability to program in top speed.
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using custom with everything maxed. also switched to eco and sport, no change.
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Belac it sounds like a programing or sensor issue unless your talking like -20F or something super cold. A dealer trip is in your future I'm afraid.
With that being said a few other things you can check if you have the means.
Some guys had their brake lever loosen up and it would hit the tail light switch causing a pulsing regen but you should have felt that jerking motion if so.
If you can jack the bike up to make sure the wheels spin freely(ish) and there isn't a wheel bearing issue or warped rotor causing the brake pads to grab.
The only other thing I can think of is double check your dash speed to the app and or a GPS unit that shows your speed. May be a bad reading on the bike.
I don't know your riding experience so you may roll your eyes at these basic suggestions but thought I'd throw them out there if it helps.
Good luck.
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My 2013DS goes max 158km/h, but at 2°C only 122km/h.
Note: performance with this cold is better when >50% I noticed.
My range dropt with 10-20km doing same driving as always with this cold.
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Being limited to 45 MPH is not normal, assuming level ground, a temperature of 32F and 6.5 kWh battery.
Performance and top speed will be affected by temperature. Look in your logs for Batt Dischg Cur Limited.
I had some significant limiting with my 2016 FXS this past winter.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7609.msg66761#msg66761
Interestingly, I did not experience as much limiting the first winter I owned the bike, but I had other problems, too. You can read most of my experience on the forums here. PM me if you want a more candid account.
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I've noticed some degradation on my 2018 FX in the cold. I rode on the highway when it was around 55F outside, and was able to cruise at 80mph for about 10 miles, but on my way home it was 45F at ~30% SOC and my max was 73mph, and slowly dropped to 67mph. I'm guessing it was enough wind to cool the battery. Also while I still had quite a bit of power, it was much harder to wheelie at 45f than at 55f.
That said, 45 seems way too slow. Have you charged completely to 100% recently to balance out the cells? What does it do at a high charge state? What temperature are you riding in?
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sorry for the delay. the day i had the issue i think it was around 45ish degrees F.
Today i rode into work, which is only 14 miles, about half on the freeway. i couldnt get over 55 for most of the freeway portion, it briefly got up to 60 on a slightly down hill portion. By the time i got the work i was at 24% and it was at 100% when i left. I believe it was around 45F this morning too.
Not only does it seem like the top speed is much slower than it should be the range also seems much more reduced than what i would expect. Its like its behaving as if it only has a single battery module.
I tried to download hte logs via the app and it crashes at about 64% for bike only and battery logs.
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I am not very impressed with the app.
anyone know what version of bluetooth, i would have expected better range. i have to be within about 10 feet of the bike to connect.
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Do you have the removable batteries or the ones that are locked in?
One battery may be loose or a bad connector sure enough.
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sorry for the delay. the day i had the issue i think it was around 45ish degrees F.
Today i rode into work, which is only 14 miles, about half on the freeway. i couldnt get over 55 for most of the freeway portion, it briefly got up to 60 on a slightly down hill portion. By the time i got the work i was at 24% and it was at 100% when i left. I believe it was around 45F this morning too.
Not only does it seem like the top speed is much slower than it should be the range also seems much more reduced than what i would expect. Its like its behaving as if it only has a single battery module.
I tried to download hte logs via the app and it crashes at about 64% for bike only and battery logs.
To give you a solid comparison, it was 39F in my garage yesterday morning and 32F outside. Started at 100%. Mile 0-1 at about 35 MPH. Mile 1-8 between 65 and 85MPH, mostly about 75 MPH. When I got off the highway at mile 8, SOC was 77%. At work at mile 9.5 SOC was 75%. The return trip was slower due to traffic (30-65MPG) and temperature was about 40F. Got back into the garage with a total of 19.3 miles and SOC 55%. In summer, I'd make it back from the round trip with about 70% left.
My 2018 FXS has about 10% more capacity, but beyond that, I wouldn't expect a difference between model years.
I'd suggest trying the app again, just the bike logs first, since it's much faster. I don't know the bluetooth version, but the range is not very good. That hasn't bothered me, because I just leave the phone sitting on the bike when I connect. Sometimes the app crashes, but often if you try again either right away or after the next ride, it will download properly.
If it's anything more than a loose connection on a battery module, I think you'll be best off taking it back to the dealer sooner rather than later.
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sorry for the delay. the day i had the issue i think it was around 45ish degrees F.
Today i rode into work, which is only 14 miles, about half on the freeway. i couldnt get over 55 for most of the freeway portion, it briefly got up to 60 on a slightly down hill portion. By the time i got the work i was at 24% and it was at 100% when i left. I believe it was around 45F this morning too.
Not only does it seem like the top speed is much slower than it should be the range also seems much more reduced than what i would expect. Its like its behaving as if it only has a single battery module.
I tried to download hte logs via the app and it crashes at about 64% for bike only and battery logs.
To give you a solid comparison, it was 39F in my garage yesterday morning and 32F outside. Started at 100%. Mile 0-1 at about 35 MPH. Mile 1-8 between 65 and 85MPH, mostly about 75 MPH. When I got off the highway at mile 8, SOC was 77%. At work at mile 9.5 SOC was 75%. The return trip was slower due to traffic (30-65MPG) and temperature was about 40F. Got back into the garage with a total of 19.3 miles and SOC 55%. In summer, I'd make it back from the round trip with about 70% left.
My 2018 FXS has about 10% more capacity, but beyond that, I wouldn't expect a difference between model years.
I'd suggest trying the app again, just the bike logs first, since it's much faster. I don't know the bluetooth version, but the range is not very good. That hasn't bothered me, because I just leave the phone sitting on the bike when I connect. Sometimes the app crashes, but often if you try again either right away or after the next ride, it will download properly.
If it's anything more than a loose connection on a battery module, I think you'll be best off taking it back to the dealer sooner rather than later.
Do you know if you have the latest firmware?
i dont see the version of hte firmware listed in the app but maybe if i can get the logs it will say. The dealer updated my firmware about a month ago.
if you are not on the newest i wonder if there is an issue with the latest release. is it possible to roll back?
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I'm not on the latest version of firmware. I picked up this bike in August. The app has since notified me of an update being available, but I won't update unless convinced if a compelling reason. The firmware information is in the header information once you get the logs.
I sincerely doubt that what you're experiencing are symptoms of firmware. Regardless, there is no reasonable way to roll back to a previous version.
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i tried another phone and the app crashes on it as well when i try to get the logs.
I did discover the root cause though which is good.
The front battery was completely dead and has been for who knows how long. The connector in the battery bay has a damaged pin. I tried putting battery in the rear position and plugging it in but the bike was unresponsive. I need to research to see if i can just plug in with an odbc ii cable or similar to access the logs. I would like to have a copy of them before i hand it over to the dealer.
When running on a single module, if i wanted to take the dead one out, is there a dummy battery you put in to fill the space? seems like if it was open it might let water get in where it usually doesn't; but since i am only on one i would like to take out the dead one so i'm not hauling around 40lbs of dead weight until i can get it fixed/replaced.
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From the factory there is a dummy plug cover zipped tied somewhere on the bike.
Check an online manual.
I guess that's a down side of a removable battery, pin damage.
Good luck with it and I hope they can get you fixed up real quick.
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As I have mentioned in other posts over the past four years, my 2014 S had a connector that was mashed when the bike was assembled at the factory which caused it to not recognize the bike's Power Tank. Once the bent pins were straightened out, and the original defective PT replaced, the bike ran perfectly from then on. Sometimes Zero's factory staff seems to get a little rushed and occasionally mash a pin or two.
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In my 2016 FXS there is a dummy plug. You should put it in place when running with only one battery. It is above the rear battery. See attached image. Its is also written in the manual of your bike, and in the zeromanual:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Common_Modifications#FX_Dual_to_Single_Battery
The manual also says that if you run with one battery only, you should place it in front position, and put the dummy plug in place of the rear battery.
What is the problem with the logs retrieving? If it starts, then stops, do it again... I have the same problem. Generally after 2 or 3 attempts, the transfer goes to 100%...
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i found that plug for the electrical portion, i thought there might basically be a plastic box that would be placed there for storage if nothing else if you were only using one.
i have tried probably 8-10 times to get the logs on multiple phones, app always crashes. i will give it a few more tries though.
The front connector is the one that is damaged so i think i will have to leave the battery in the rear position. The plug didnt seem very secure makes me think its going to just pop off.
Thanks for the link.
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Did you try the Zero application both with iPhone and Android ?
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i have tried probably 8-10 times to get the logs on multiple phones, app always crashes. i will give it a few more tries though.
At what point the zero app crash? During the download or at the end when it try to open the email app to send the logs? On my phone (samsung note8) it always crash at the end of the download when the email app should load to send the logs. But I found that the zero app actually save the logs on his folder, so with a file browser (on android not IOS) you can find the logs on this path: Internal Storage/Android/data/com.ZeroMotorcycles/files. You will find one or two BIN files (depending on what logs you requested).
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it was crashing during the download, usually around 64-67%
I checked the filesystem as well but nothing was saved.
I dont have an iphone
phones used:
S8
Note 9
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Perhaps you could try different versions of the Zero application ?
You can get old versions from https://apkpure.com/zero-motorcycles/com.ZeroMotorcycles
Personally, I use and old version of the Zero application, since I have found that some new versions have some issues with my 2016 bike.
See also
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8044.0
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7720.0
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I wanted to mention th as t I was able to get the logs using an older version of the app.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
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If it can help, here is an example of what you should be able to get (FXS MY2016):
http://bit.ly/2FiOzyK
These logs contain some rides in the cold (around 0°C) and the bike was running nicely...
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i wanted to give an update on this.
I dropped the bike off at the dealer on JANUARY 5th. After numerous attempts to get information from them and getting no response they finally got back to me said they were waiting for parts. After another ridiculous amount of time had passed they said i could pick it up. I went down there to pick it up, the date, MARCH 9th! I go to pick it up and checked the pin in their parking lot. They had done absolutely nothing! Left it with them to get that replaced. After multiple emails, numerous excuses and empty promises i still have no bike. I am talking with a lawyer as i dont see what other options i have. At this point i dont even know if i want to keep it once i do get it back, f***ing ridiculous!!!
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Man, I'm sorry to hear that. It seems some Zero dealers provide terrible support. I wonder if their service department just doesn't know how to work on them or something. You might try contacting Zero directly and come at it from that angle.
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Man, I'm sorry to hear that. It seems some Zero dealers provide terrible support. I wonder if their service department just doesn't know how to work on them or something. You might try contacting Zero directly and come at it from that angle.
If I had to guess, I would say that some dealers' service departments really don't want to have anything to do with electric motorcycles. They have always worked on ICE, are happy with that technology, understand it and fear batteries, motors with few moving parts and a technology with little to do in the way of maintenance. If your livelihood depends upon adjusting valves, changing oil, filters, spark plugs, clutches, etc., for which you are charging big bucks (in the case of BMW motorcycles, a 12K-mile service is approaching $1K for some models - $1,500 for their GT1600), why would you want to cater to electric motorcycles that require little of no servicing? Your hope is that the electric motorcycle market will collapse and the darn things will just go away. In the meantime you might give their owners with strange problems the "runaround". :(
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I dont know if i happened to mention what the issue was. A dead battery and bent pin whee it plugs in so Zero approved replacing battery and replacing wiring harness. Unfortunately those two simple items are to much for the dealer or Zero to manage. It is now about 8 months and still no bike.
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Wow!
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I dont know if i happened to mention what the issue was. A dead battery and bent pin whee it plugs in so Zero approved replacing battery and replacing wiring harness. Unfortunately those two simple items are to much for the dealer or Zero to manage. It is now about 8 months and still no bike.
I would be calling every other day. What's the worst that can happen if you annoy them?
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Thought i would post an update.
The dealer went out of business, saw it on the news and about shit myself. I wasn't able to reach anyone to find out how to get my bike back. Luckily Zero did something right, they contacted me to let me know they had recovered the bike and scheduled a time to drop it off at my house. I am glad they were able to step in and get my bike back.
The battery and wiring harness were replaced. As I suspected the dealer did not store it properly, the plastics are now ridiculously faded, they looked practically brand new when i dropped it off. The battery got down to 20 something percent, Zero says its fine. The dealer also somehow broke loose my heated grip on the throttle side. It would just spin, had to improvise with a cable tie until i can take it off and re-glue it. The A box on the lcd which i think is a trip odometer just says "error 0000". It seems to run ok, been commuting since i got it back (they dropped it off in Sept.).
In my attempts to get the bike back before i heard they went out of business i had filed a lemon law complaint outlining the gross incompetence and said i was open to negotiating but i also asked for a replacement or refund as described in the state law. Zero responsed a number of weeks later and tried to say the delay was my fault and basically told me to pound sand. To say i was disappointed and frankly pissed off that they had the gall to try to blame me would be an understatement.
I was excited about the srf as it looks like it would be a good bike but i would essentially be saying this company's behavior is acceptable by purchasing any more of their products. What do you guys think?
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All I can say is that I have never had a problem with the three Zero's that I have owned during the past 7 years, although I will admit that Zero's customer service was quite impressive back (at least for me) in 2012 when they were selling just a few hundred bikes, instead of the thousands that they are now. The secret to getting good service now is to find an enthusiastic Zero dealer who knows what they are doing and has a good relationship with the factory engineers. The best approach might be to talk to the technicians in the service department and ask their opinion of the brand and take what you hear from the sales staff with a grain of salt. ;)
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So let me get this straight. Your let your bike sit at the dealer for 8 months, until the dealer went out business.
Then, unprompted by you, Zero recovered your bike from the defunct dealer and returned it to you, and the repair was done?
Does that mean they did the repair and then didn't inform you? Or you didn't pick it up? Faded plastics means that it sat outside for most of that time. There's no way I'd let my bike sit at the dealer for 8 months, I'd pull it out after two at the most. Zero's dealers are independently managed and owned, and quality can vary.
I'm not terribly surprised Zero did not want to replace or refund your bike. It sounds like they may have done the repair in a reasonable time frame. I've seen Zero bend over backwards recently to help owners, but I've also seen them take a harder line against shenanigans and dealer issues. It doesn't sound like we have the full story here.
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Maybe the bent pin ruined the battery. It sounds like it was one simple issue with the bike. That's not a lemon law thing -- it's not a vehicle with persistent gremlins. Just a terrible dealer, a dealer who can't fix very simple things and would set someone's bike out in the weather indefinitely.
But I can't believe you let it go 8 months!
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Yeah, I'm on first-name-they-know-my-phone-number-by-sight with the dealer who fixed my firmware & signal relay. I was calling them at least every week, sometimes twice. I showed up at the door twice, too.
And they only had my bike for a little over two weeks for the first one, and the second one I kept the bike waiting for the part. (Boy I'm getting good at one-handed turns with all that hand-signaling, tho. I hadta train myself to start using the indicators again!)
Still, a dealer that had a bike and wouldn't fix it? Ye-uck. Good on Zero for finally finding you. This is why it's important to register your vin with the manufacturer. They'll be contacted in any case that the bike shows up stolen, broken, misplaced, etc; the state registration isn't always the easiest way to contact the owner, and it can be lost or obfuscated.
Lemon laws can be used against dealers, not just manufacturers. They're the first line of recourse when a dealer doesn't make it right. But what they apply to varies by state, of course. :/
-Crissa