ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Low On Cash on January 10, 2017, 02:49:28 AM
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For those unfortunate riders who have to leave their Zero's out in the cold you might consider Googling 110 v heat wraps - these blankets or strip heaters can make a major difference to protect the cells from reaching temperatures that could damage the pack. The blanket could just lay against either side of the battery to conduct heat to the interior of the pack. This would also add some miles to your range. I've seen these on Ebay at half the cost shown - also Home Depot & Loews carries some of these for wrapping water pipes, etc.
Regards - Mike
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If this is really needed, perhaps EVs should be designed to have a pack heater built-in and controlled by the BMS?
The hardware could be standard or an option.
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Did Aerostitch ever commercialize the one they made? I'd be interested...
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If this is really needed, perhaps EVs should be designed to have a pack heater built-in and controlled by the BMS?
The hardware could be standard or an option.
It's a low cost option which could easily be installed in the Zero pack which could run right off the same charging circuit - if the pack needs to be heated, it could cut the charge rate down to 750 watts while the heater is running.
Electric Cars like the Volt and BMW I3 have heating/cooling circuits which may run the A/C in heat pump configuration to heat the cells. During cold weather The GM Volt starts the engine automatically and maintain a coolant temperature between 120-200 degrees to heat the pack and assist the interior heating. When the Volt's engine is not running, it heats coolant with a strip heater which circulates through the cell body to maintain temperature. During Summer use - if the cells temperature (or charger) gets too hot, it uses the electric powered compressor A/C system with a heat exchanger to cool the cells. There's a lot of advantages proper battery temperature aside from longevity it provides additional range.
It should not be too difficult for some of the Zero guys to install the heat blanket in addition to heating the cells some heat will help the electronics as well.
Regards - Mike
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I like this idea.
Have you tried it yet? It would be good to see how it could work in practice, like how to position it or enshroud the battery maybe.
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Brian I have not since my bike is garaged - while it does not have to be permanent, there might be an option to lay the blanket on top of the battery compartment this way it would not be visual and only used when needed with a 110v plug. I'm sure most of us seen the 110 v plug used on diesel pick-ups, it would be along the same lines. This would also help heat the few electronics that are housed under the tank.
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Aerostich staff designed and produced warming wrap for batteries. Blanket is similar in construction to Aerostich heated vests. Covers top, front, and sides of batteries. Wrap is sandwiched between batteries and battery mounts, held in place at lower edge with Velcro. Warming wrap SAE connector attached to SingPad 12V 60W DC power supply, mounted to top right battery mount. 120V AC power supply plug for battery warming system located next to motorcycle’s charge cord plug.
Battery heating blanket is an experiment too. Construction is similar to one of our electric vests. This model Zero has a battery setup that lends itself well to wrapping. How much heat will be needed to maintain a reasonable battery temp overnight remains to be seen. More damage to be done by overheating the batteries than getting them too cold. Started out with that in mind.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170110/41873102eedbe472e6a39891bd09de02.jpg)
http://www.aerostich.com/blog/zero-below-zero/
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Would letting the lights run for a bit, before riding off, help warm up the batteries?
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Clay thanks so much for sharing - looks like they have it figured out - personally I do not think you'll have any problem with overheating the pack with that low wattage - the pack is comfortable running even at over 100 degrees and I don't think that will happen plus as your moving the cold air will thermally cool the pack quickly.
Thanks - Mike
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I'm still fiddling with a neoprene wrap mount for a similar purpose, mainly for during the ride, but could be compatible.
Right now I made grommets and ran bungee through rear corners through the frame center tube. Upper fastening was with big grommets and I anchored them under the fairing lower corners.
This worked surprisingly well but needs tweaking before I release plans.
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Great news - please keep us informed with some images. I know pre-heating the cells makes a major difference on my GM Volt. When i was doing some testing - I found out pre-heating an hour before departure on cold days did two things, it put a head charge on the battery as it re-balanced the cells and also ran the strip heater which heated the cells proving more range.
Thanks
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My 2 cents is to be sure when warming - the whole battery pack is protected.
Just warming where the few sensors are isn't really protecting the multiple cells throughout the monoliths.
So heat pack, and wholly insulate - if you gotta be out in the cold.
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Regretfully due to the design of the pack there is no opportunity to heat all the cells equally so that is not an option. Unlike automotive packs where there is channels in the pack to circulate coolant for uniform cooling and heating - these cells are just stacked and rely on convection cooling.
Since extreme cold weather can deteriorate cells - any heat would be an advantage, by heating the case it will provide some protection and some increased range.
Unlike automotive applications like the GM Volt, its too bad we can't use the OBD on the Zero to monitor what each cell is doing temp wise.
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Regretfully due to the design of the pack there is no opportunity to heat all the cells equally so that is not an option. Unlike automotive packs where there is channels in the pack to circulate coolant for uniform cooling and heating - these cells are just stacked and rely on convection cooling.
Since extreme cold weather can deteriorate cells - any heat would be an advantage, by heating the case it will provide some protection and some increased range.
Unlike automotive applications like the GM Volt, its too bad we can't use the OBD on the Zero to monitor what each cell is doing temp wise.
on the plus side, the cells do conduct heat well across them.. so warming the outside of the pack will have a positive effect...
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On the note of heated packs, when I'm planning a long ride in the cold I a wrap an electrical blanket around the pack. It probably won't do much but hey, it's something.
For on the road, there's those heated seat covers that run on 12V, you might be able to adapt those. Also the wind chill cools the pack significantly, if you can deflect some of that wind it would make a difference.
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On the note of heated packs, when I'm planning a long ride in the cold I a wrap an electrical blanket around the pack. It probably won't do much but hey, it's something.
For on the road, there's those heated seat covers that run on 12V, you might be able to adapt those. Also the wind chill cools the pack significantly, if you can deflect some of that wind it would make a difference.
I think the wind and moisture deflection is enough based on my tests with neoprene. Active heating adds some complication and might pay off less. We need to work out good measurements and mounting, though.
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Seems to me a "Thermal 110 v / 12 volt Jacket" could easily be designed. For those who have to store their bikes out in freezing weather, the heating pad will help prevent cell deterioration and provide additional range.
Running the heater off the bikes pack will actually increase range during cold weather. On the BMW I3 (electric only) car with a heat pump AC system, there is onsiderably more range by running the AC compressor and pump and to heat coolant to run through the pack to heat it - than not heating the cells at all.
Cell temperature plays an important part in range - at 32 degrees the cell loses around 20% of its range and at temperatures below 0 degrees it can lose up to 60%. There is research now on an advanced (all weather) Lithium battery that is self-heating at temperatures below zero degrees. It heats without external heating devices. The self-heating mechanism uses a electrochemical interface that creates heat in each cell. They say this can heat the cell in just 30 seconds and only uses 3-5% of cells capacity.