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What, there isn't a recent thread where I can whine and complain about range!?! I guess I'll have to start one!

Greetings Zero owners, I'm back, and as whiny as ever.

I had sold my 2014 Zero S with power tank two years ago... and about a month ago I bought it back, with only a few hundred miles more on it, now at about 24,000 miles (bought it back for the same price I sold it, $5k). My reasoning is I now I have new job that is 25 miles from my house, and they have an entire line of free chargers in front of my building, mostly unused. I thought for sure the bike could go both ways on a single charge and thus I'd be getting "free gas" (and could justify another motorcycle!)

Well, uh, long story short, both times I tried to do a full loop on a single charge (50 miles total), even riding conservatively (55-60 mph or slower, with 75% at that speed and 25% slower) I ended up with the bike showing zero percent charge 5+ miles before reaching my destination. When I did it riding back to work it was super stressful because if it died I would have been late to work and it is a new job. Way more exciting than I needed it to be, but I did make it to work. I was pissed, because I was riding very conservatively, and (at least on this and most days) don't go above 60 mph. (Btw I weight 165 lbs and the bike has a windscreen)

Today riding back home I had quite the experience:

The bike went from 47% SOC (102 volts) (I had stopped half-way for 1+ hours on my way home) to 3-4% SOC (voltage unknown) in about 2.5 miles going 60 mph on flat ground(no exaggeration) and I still had 8 miles and a 2000+ foot climb to get back home. Basically I rode 5-6 miles uphill with the display showing 0% SOC, going 45-55 mph, with some power limiting, but still able to go 45 mph up until the last mile or so.

I made it home without the bike dying... but I wanted to know how large the "empty tank" was... as an experiment, I kept going up the hill, figuring I could turn around and roll back down even if it dies now. So it went about a mile more and it finally died. When I got home the phone app showed the battery at 97 volts (sitting for an hour or so it went up to 98 volts and showed 14% charge).

So is this normal behavior? I looked up the graphs on the wiki page ( https://zeromanual.com/wiki/File:Soc_vs_voltage.png ) and I guess that's what it shows, and the bike is shutting off at 97 volts. So that is a hard limit? I have the memory of people on the forum saying that 87 volts was the magical "empty" voltage number. No?

Actually I have been taking screenshots of my app with the bike having gone 25 miles (either to work or to home) and voltage ranges from 104-106 volts after 25 "easy" miles.

Some questions:
1) is my apparent rapid discharge while riding normally (47% to 3% in less than 3 miles) a sign of a battery problem or just some weird SOC calculation issue? 

2) How about going from full charge to 105 volts in 25 "medium" miles (55 mph)?

3) I have screenshots showing 14% SOC at 98 volts and on a separate occasion, 15% SOC at 103 volts. why such a big difference in voltage at the same SOC?What other parameter figure into the SOC number? Cell balance?

4) Reading the wiki page on the Zero battery made me realize that even if I can do both directions on a single charge, it would make sense to charge the bike at home and at work to improve battery longevity... or is there enough buffer to where the effect of riding to 97-98 volts is not going to make a major difference in battery longevity? The cost and trouble are actually minimal, mostly I'd just be losing bragging rights of saying I don't pay anything for "gas"...

5) Will my SOC display become more accurate now that it "knows" how far the bike can go before hitting the shutoff voltage?

Thanks in advance,

-Alan

I was in love with the Dunlop GPR300s on my Ninja 400 after 2 trackdays, they stick like glue. However, using the Ninja as my commute vehicle quickly wore a flat spot into the rear within 2k miles. But about six weeks ago I got my Zero S back into action (bought the $600 delta-Q, my onboard is still toast), which had a brand new Michelin Street Radial on the rear. So I have about 1500 miles on it now (50 mile round trip daily commute), and the tire look brand new, no flat spot at all. Sounds like a rave review, however....

So last night coming home I get on the freeway cloverleaf from a stop light, it's a 90 degree turn to get onto the ramp. It's my regular way home so I know the turn pretty well. I braked hard, leaned over, rolled on the throttle as I straightened up and had my rear break loose a few inches! This is on a Zero S (54 horsepower) on dry pavement!!! Wow! It recovered fine and no problem, but I've never had that happen to me. No gravel, no bumps.

Okay, so I have reached the conclusion that I reached the performance limit of the long-wearing Street Radials. Feeling the Street Radial tire by hand vs. the GPR300 is like night and day. The Michelin feels (and looks) like plastic whereas the GPR300 feels like rubber. I also was keeping my rear tire at 38 PSI, hoping it would increase my range (didn't notice a difference). I just lowered it back down.

So yeah. I feel like these two tires are on opposite extremes of long-wearing versus high grip. I was ready to rave about the Street Radials, because before yesterday the grip seemed fine. I guess it's fine until it isn't!

Strangely, the GPR300 lasted longer on twisty roads and track days versus on my flat freeway commute. The flat spot is pronounced and I don't have much more than 2k miles on the rear.

Any suggestions for a tire that is somewhere in the middle of these extremes of wear and grip? 

How many miles can you get out of a Diablo Rosso II doing mostly flat commuter miles?

So I have a 2014 Zero S that is at the dealer for repair. The bike is still intermittently shutting down while riding (including at full speed on the freeway!). So after a month they finally get back to me and say that the motherboard needs to be replaced because the dealer and Zero cannot communicate with the bike. Replacement with labor is $1000. BUT--they are not saying that this will fix the problem of my intermittent issues. They simply need to replace the MBB to communicate with the bike remotely, it seems. But I was able to download logs onto my smartphone via bluetooth when I had the bike at home.... so when they say they cannot communicate with the bike, do they mean with a physical connector? And so the bluetooth connection cannot do the same thing?

Also, the motherboard is $445 for the part, but they are charging three hours labor (3x $140) to replace it. It's just sitting under the seat, right?

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your support,

-Alan

This is a Zero S ZF 11.4 model with the power tank upgrade, giving it a true range of about 100 miles off the freeway, and about 65 miles on the freeway (advertised range is 171 miles off and 88 miles on the freeway). Odometer: 14,300 miles. Location: Woodland, California

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/2014/specs.php.

Bike rides perfectly. Tires have plenty of tread. Although I had controller issues back when I bought it, and the charger was replaced about 1 year ago, those problems were fixed under warranty and I have not had problems since. The bike has never been crashed, no issues, title is clean.

Photo gallery: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hqE5Yj859O34pg2D2

The only modification it has is the rear brake is now controlled by a left hand lever, which I found easier to modulate under hard braking versus a foot brake pedal (since there is no clutch lever on the left side). This can easily be restored to OEM, your choice, I can take care of that.

Kelly blue book value for this year/model is $10,075 without the power tank. The power tank was about a $2,000 dollar option when new, I believe.

I am in the Sacramento area but can meet any interested SF bay area potential buyers somewhere within my riding range (Fairfield or maybe a little bit further) on weekends, if you are serious about buying it.

Okay, I wanted to share my somewhat weird results regarding my freeway commute to/from work versus an alternate low speed street route commute. None of this may surprise experienced Zero riders, but I'd like to hear comments.

When I take my freeway route, 70-80 mph is the norm, and I don't tuck or try to conserve energy. I tell people about my commute, "yeah, I'm on the freeway the entire time" as my house is like 1/2 mile away from the freeway onramp/offramp, and also at work, the freeway onramp is less than a mile from where I park.

But I feel like my commute time conflicts with this, because I have a 13 mile commute, and by calculation, 11 miles at 75 mph is less than 14 minutes on the freeway. When I time myself door-to-parking lot (and vis versa) my commute takes 20-21 minutes using the freeway. I expected the street route to take significantly longer, but no: I take about 28 minutes using the "street" route (it actually is a shorter straight-line distance versus the freeway route by maybe a mile). So I am really surprised how little time using the freeway saves me. My street route does have a fair number of intersections, I don't know if I've been getting lucky or what... but I am not trying to rush.

No surprise that my energy usage using the street route is much less. I typically use 18-20% of my charge taking the freeway route, but on my street route I use about 10-11% of the charge. So half the energy usage, and only 8 minutes longer of a commute! And also, I feel more grounded and less rushed when I take the street route. I don't know, I feel like I'm on a bike ride, and not rushing to work or rushing home (because I'm not!). And I can go at least 3 days without charging if I take the street route, whereas I have to charge every 2 days if I take the freeway.

It just seems weird. How can this be? 8 minute difference... I guess my true average speed on the freeway gets reduced to about 40 mph (13 miles in 20 minutes), whereas my true average speed on the street route is about 26 mph (12 miles in 28 minutes). So it's like the 1.5 miles in 6 minutes off the freeway on my "freeway" route reduces the time difference between these routes to something that seems almost trivial.

I guess 8 minutes is like a 40% increase in a 20 minute commute, but still... it's just 8 minutes...  I guess it just doesn't break a perceptual barrier that makes me think "man, that is way longer, what a waste of time!" Funny, huh?

11,095 miles. Yellow. Conti Road Attack II rear and Metzeler M7 RR front tires have low miles. Brake pads have been changed.

Dropped twice but never crashed. Has the rear brake converted to the handlebar left lever, which I can leave or return to OEM; otherwise stock.

Although I did have electronic issues when I bought it those were fixed under warranty and it has run perfectly since then.

I am in Woodland, California (95695). I took the bike to the track twice, but only did eight or nine 20 minute sessions total (I was also riding a second ICE bike).

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/6000604712.html

Let me know if you have any questions.

So back a couple months ago I swapped out the OEM semi-metallic HH pads on my 2014 Zero S to organic pads, and it greatly improved the braking modulation; with the OEM pads the bike had very abrupt braking, almost an on-off switch. So I was singing the praises of organic brake pads until this thursday when they suddenly lost 70% power while I was passing a car into a steep downhill going into a hairpin turn. I made it out the other side without going down, but this happened without warning. I had overtaken the car and was pointed downhill facing the hairpin and I swear pulling on the brake as hard as I could felt like I was getting barely any braking.

If there is a lesson to learn as far as my riding, it's that I have gotten so out of practice at using my rear brake that I didn't want to risk it in the second I had to react; it's actually a slight left going into a hairpin right, and I didn't want to slide the rear with the bike leaned over. I am now practicing using my rear brake. On the other hand, my trackday experience definitely gave me the confidence to quickly throw down the bike into the hairpin at a speed I would never consider doing intentionally on the street. The tires stuck, the turn was banked and I didn't even scrape the peg. Two minutes later the brakes were back to normal...

This spot is near the bottom of a 2000 foot windy downhill, so I was heating up the brakes going down, and the final stress that threw my brakes over the edge was definitely the fact that before passing the vehicle, I had to do a full-on emergency brake on my first attempt at passing this guy, as he went into the oncoming passing lane to block me! This is a very safe passing spot, and I pass cars every week on my normal morning commute on this section of road (this is Kings Mountain Road, for those in the area...).  I have gone over 2 months with this brake pad setup and have never noticed any fading on the street. But I think I had the OEM pads on for my trackday...

Anyways, I did want to post this here as I previously recommended organic brake pads as a good solution. I definitely take that back: it was one second they were fine, and the next time I pulled them, they had stopped working--in a very bad situation. There has to be a semi-metallic pad that has both better modulation and does not suddenly fade like this. So I will be experimenting with that and will report back here.

Doing two days in a row, Thunderhill July 4/5 with Keigwins. First time to the track with the Zero, very excited to see how it goes. Wondering how it will hold up in the heat (mid-90's predicted)--is the motor going to cut out suddenly or will it limit power pretty smoothly? Also wondering how many sessions I will be able to wring out of the bike per day. Also bringing my Honda 919 as my second bike. I was on the fence about going (because of the heat) until I read this post: http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9077251&postcount=18 Sounds like a great deal, I had to do it.

I actually just swapped my master cylinder to a m/c with a 10mm piston, it has improved the brake feel a little... and for $15, it was hard to beat. The one issue is there is no mirror mount, but I do have a mirror mount on order.  It is almost identical to the Nissin M/C, surprisingly good quality, the levers are interchangeable and the light switch swapped okay (needed a couple small washers because the screw is slightly too long). When you calculate the brake caliper displacement to m/c displacement, the Zero is off the chart in a bad way...