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[wavelet]

Well, that is a real shocker!    But only 218 units being called?  I am pretty sure that Zero made more than that in 2012.   

I'd have thought so, but the NHTSA notice linked to the Zero post above says "all" (not the SR or FX, however).

I hope the bike that I gave my daughter is covered by the recall.

Hoping for you too.
And that this doesn't end up being a heavy burden on Zero. It's at least encouraging that 2013-2018 bikes aren't affected.

Recurring stories like this and this make me more and more hesitant that an e-bike is in my near future, quite aside from the major insufficient range for day trips issue.
Living in a country where the Zero importer is also the single (tiny) dealer every issue would be major.

None of the major brands offer good service, but being bikeless for a month isn't an option, given this would be my only bike.
Bikes cost a lot here; even with the lower Customs duty for EVs, a 2017 Zero S ZF16.3 costs $26100 (the importer doesn't have the 2018 models yet). 

The e-motorcycle market absolutely needs a major-vendor entrant, and I mean for broad appeal road or dual-purpose bikes, not tiny range aggressive offroad models.

[ColoPaul]

From Ride Apart, maybe there is hope Zero might repair the bikes?

"Affected owners will be notified by Zero, and the company is giving customers the option to have their machines fixed, or bought back—including a financial trade-assist program towards a newer model year Zero."

https://rideapart.com/articles/2012-zero-motorcycles-battery-recall

...and.. .LOL, this is even more optimistic:

"Zero is offering to replace all the 2012 models with a brand-new Zero, if that’s what the customer wants."

https://canadamotoguide.com/2018/04/13/zero-issues-recall-buy-back-on-some-2012-models/

[Richard230]

I found this statement in the rideapart article interesting:
This recall/buyback is expected to cost Zero a massive amount of money. Fortunately the company has ample funding and has recently inked multiple deals with other OEMS.

I am not putting any money on this statement in the canadamotoguide article.  I really don't see that happening.  I wonder what those guys are smoking up north? : Zero is offering to replace all the 2012 models with a brand-new Zero, if that’s what the customer wants.

[Electric Terry]

"Zero is offering to replace all the 2012 models with a brand-new Zero, if that’s what the customer wants."

https://canadamotoguide.com/2018/04/13/zero-issues-recall-buy-back-on-some-2012-models/

Lol I have no idea how they came up with that, unless they thought it was a April fools joke because they've been smoking weed and drinking Molson for 2 weeks and lost track of time.

My guess is there will be an incentive to get a new bike perhaps in the form of $1000-$1500 more than the cash trade in fair market value price.  So if you ask for a cash buyback perhaps $2500-$3500, but if you trade it in on a 2018 Zero you might get up to $5000 towards that.  Just a guess we will have to see.  It might turn out to be exactly the same, although I would think there should be some incentive to keep the rider on a Zero somehow.

[ColoPaul]

So if you ask for a cash buyback perhaps $2500-$3500...

Where did you get your cash buyback estimate?
KBB gives $4160 (trade-in) and $6040 (retail) for a 2012 SZF9. 
2012 SZF6: $3495 (trade-in) and $5080 (retail).

[Electric Terry]

It was just an estimate I guessed based on what I thought someone on this forum would have bought one for to find the true market value. But your number is probably more accurate.

[keith burton]

Please Terry do not ever publish your estimates of the refund we may expect again, ruined the start to my day. Zero need to be way north of your figures when they are dealing with about 100 unhappy owners. Is your lovely dog worth less as she is not a puppy any more. Most of the 2012 models will be low mileage toys used for fun. I ask all affected owners to log on and copy prices of 2012 models for sale so Zero cannot lowball us. It is such a huge gulf from a used Zero to a new 2018 model very generous trade in deals are needed. Zero could turn this PR disaster into a positive if they act fairly and offer good deals. A hundred happy people a lot better than an angry mob. Please contact me even though I am in the UK as we will need to be united as a team to get a fair deal. I know I cannot afford £10000 to upgrade to a 2018. I think Zeros are great especially when not trying to roast your nuts as you ride along. The one in seventy odds of a motorcycle BBQ mean I am not riding and my insurance is probably invalid. I hope they move quickly on this I need my bike to be on the road.

[ColoPaul]

Keith, I understand where you're coming from.  But you're kidding yourself - Zero surely made the decision on compensation weeks ago, already approved and agreed to by their financial and lawyer folk.   The offer will be what it is and there is nothing we can do at this point to influence it.   Terry's estimate freaks me out too, he's an insider and has the pulse of the e-moto industry - he may be spot on.

When we get the offer letter next week, we'll know then.   Speculatively, I doubt repair will be an option and even if Zero offered 'retail' KBB values, that's only half what a '18 SZF7.2 list price is.  Used (MY13+ S/DS) models on Craigslist are $10k +/-.  So as you observed, it's likely 2012 owners will go from having a working electric motorcycle to having a check that isn't near enough to buy a working electric motorcycle.

That said, most of us got 6 good years out of our bikes.   The expensive available replacements are expensive for a reason - they have more power, more battery, more features, better components (shocks, brakes, etc) and less mileage.   We must temper our expectations on what we are 'owed' with these facts. 

The hard reality is this is a crappy lose-lose situation.   Give Zero credit for doing the right thing: not hiding/dismissing the issue, instead offering up compensation and taking unsafe bikes off the road - they are a small company and this is certainly a huge burden to them, too.

[MrDude_1]

Give Zero credit for doing the right thing: not hiding/dismissing the issue, instead offering up compensation and taking unsafe bikes off the road - they are a small company and this is certainly a huge burden to them, too.

My conspiracy theory friend believes that this is the reason they had that "trade up" program a couple years ago. Get as many off the road as possible before they have to go public about the issue.

[keith burton]

I guess you are correct and I mean no disrespect to Terry who is on the ball, it is just an unhappy situation. I just started using mine to get to work each day and love it in eco mode as I am a new rider, it was a cheap way to get to work. I hope we are offered a fair price and quick payment so I can source another bike. May have peddles if compensation not very good, get me fit.

[Richard230]

Here is another article about the recall with a few more details, including reports of two more instances of fires.  These occurred in the U.S.
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2018/04/16/recall-2/zero-buying-back-2012-ds-models-because-of-fire-risk/

[Electric Terry]

Remember guys I am one of those 218 Zero owners with a 2012, I just don't ride it anymore and retired it after 78,000 miles.   I ride the 2015 everyday and it is an amazing motorcycle.

And yes, I'm sure Zero made their decision on pricing a long time ago to budget for the recall, and paperwork is already prepared.   So nothing said here will have any effect on anything, that I am certain of.

In all honesty, for those of us who love Zero's, a month before the recall, if you had $5000 in the bank and needed a bike, would you have bought another 2012 Zero if it was listed for $4995 at your local dealer? 

if yes, then we have a fair market price.  If no, then ask yourself why.  There should be a price where most of us would buy another 2012, even if we thought that it was underpriced and we could sell it later at a higher price.  Or to recommend it to a friend or family member as a good value.  What price would you recommend your best friend to buy one?

I would like to see the buyback price high also for everyone's benefit, but I also know a fact that affects everyone.  Most people think their stuff is worth more than the average other person thinks their stuff is.  Surely everyone knows what I mean and have seen this too.   Hopefully Zero will surprise everyone with an offer that is higher than we all expect.  But I don't want anyone to be disappointed by getting a false idea either.

I would like to see some extra incentive for all people who will upgrade to a 2018, but for those who can't afford it, there needs to be an ability to upgrade to used bike in their dealer network from 2013 to 2017 also I would hope, although I would think the incentive would be more on a new 2018 bike.  Although I don't know how recalls work and perhaps everything has to be equal.  I literally have no idea how all this works and am just guessing. 

[Electric Terry]

So I just checked Cycle Trader and I do think perhaps i estimated a little low.   Although remember when you see prices on cycle trader, these are the bikes which are NOT selling, lol!  I have sometimes followed the same bike for sale for years as the dealer is just asking too much and can't see it.  They always lower their prices the next year, but are always behind.

This link may not work for long:

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2012-Zero-Motorcycles-S-ZF6-122362346

Check this 2012 Zero ZF6 for sale for $4695.  Look at the picture, it has a tag that says $8321.  How long do you think they have had this bike as a trade in?

I always tell people when trying to sell a used Zero so they can upgrade, list your bike for less than you think its worth so it sells quick.  You really want to be the best priced Zero in the country for that year.  I have hundreds of friends who have had Zero's and try to upgrade, and I tell everyone to take the dealer trade in price, even if you think it's too low.  The ones who don't sometimes don't sell their bike for 2 years or ever as they somehow keep thinking their bike is worth more than any single willing buyer does.  Let the dealer take that risk and sit on the bike for a year or two or more.  No need for you to do that.

But I do think I was off a little and will revise my estimate to be $3750 to $5250, with perhaps an extra $1000-$1500 incentive direct from Zero (separate from the official recall) to those 2012 owners who upgrade to a 2018.  So the recall should reflect the fair market value regardless of if you take a cash buyback or not so it is fair.  And then I would think Zero would incentivize it to get a new bike within 90 days or so.  But I don't know they may not do that.  It just seems logical that they would, right?  But again just a guess and I have no idea I might be wrong and there is a reason I don't understand on why they can't do this.

[Richard230]

As someone who has traded-in about 35 motorcycles on new models over the years, I have no illusions what trade-ins are worth when selling to a dealer.  You typically get about 20 or 30% less than what the dealer thinks your bike will be worth as a quick resale on the open market.  So I tend to be kind of pessimistic when it comes to the value of used motorcycles - and that goes (at least) double for something like an electric motorcycle that has a very limited market.

[keith burton]

Terry carry on and write another insert your numbers are going up each time, I like that. You are more realistic now with the values but it still sucks. I do not like to find out the delay between the incidents and it coming to light and the recall. I know investigations/ reports/ meetings but we could have been injured/ killed/ properties damaged. Zero is a small company who should react quicker and be more open and honest. I still want to vent. My Volvo V90 is 21 years old 179000 miles cost £30000 new now worth £1000 or so but it is still mint and years off scrapping.No way I would pay the £40000 for a new one. All those complex bits in the Volvo still work. A simple battery not made correctly, recalled due to moisture ingress previously, allowed to have loose pouches are Zero really to be taken as the market leaders. Electric no vibration/ smooth the adds say but the cells rub against the housing and we end up here. If its all been sorted all ready and all meetings been had publish the deal and let us get on and source our replacement bikes. Publish on here or facebook we would all known within a few hours. The prices of the advertised bikes were what they were selling for. Not all of us Zero owners can have £14000 toys some of us used them as cheap transport. I had accepted degrading cell capacity not shoddy manufacture. The battery is the bike, it accounts for a huge proportion of the cost of the bike. Its terrible to see how inside the shiny black box these early batteries were made. Look up on YouTube to see them stripped down for rebuilding. Look at recalls due to poor crimped connectors. Then look at the promotional Zero adverts see if the two go together. 6000 miles my ZF9 has done 1000 per year and now scrap, costing me money on insurance whilst I cannot ride it. If all is sorted already publish the offer now.