ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: DonTom on August 18, 2018, 05:20:02 AM
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What is the life expectancy of the drive belt on my two Zero bikes (listed below)? And how much trouble are they to change, what's involved? Should I carry a spare belt?
-Don- Cottonwood, AZ (on a RV trip with the Zero DS ZF 6.5 carried on the RV hitch).
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Life is a wild card. One Little Rock pop up between the belt and sprocket and it will likely break. Mine snapped one mile from home the day I got it. 2 weeks later i got to ride my new bike
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Mine is the factory belt 25k and going strong, not a tooth out of place.
You can carry a spare but you have to remove the swing arm to change the belt.
There was a guy on here who was making emergency belts that were more rubbery and tucked up by the motor but you still had to remove the swing arm when you first got it to slip it over the motor gear.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6597.msg52264#msg52264
The rear wheel catching air seems to be the quickest way to snap one with rocks or other junk getting between the belt and sprocket being a close second.
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Mine is the factory belt 25k and going strong, not a tooth out of place.
You can carry a spare but you have to remove the swing arm to change the belt.
There was a guy on here who was making emergency belts that were more rubbery and tucked up by the motor but you still had to remove the swing arm when you first got it to slip it over the motor gear.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6597.msg52264#msg52264
The rear wheel catching air seems to be the quickest way to snap one with rocks or other junk getting between the belt and sprocket being a close second.
Thanks for the info. Exactly the info. I wanted. How much hassle is it to remove the swing arm? I wonder if this is a repair that can be done on the side of the road. Doesn't sound like it. But it sounds like you're saying that the new belt can be set up in advance, in case the stock belt breaks. Can that also be done with the stock belt?
I am on unpaved & gravel roads a lot with my DS Zero. Sometimes even in deep sand, such as in Lone Rock Park in Utah, right on the beach of Lake Powell that I was in last week. Also in Cindy Hills near Flagstaff, AZ a couple of weeks ago. Would it be best for me to try to avoid such? I just wonder how common it is for something to break the belt.
When you say the real wheel catching air, do you mean from too much slack in the belt?
Too bad somebody cannot design an emergency belt with a removable link!
BTW, the Zero DS ZF 6.5 is a great bike for these RV trips. It rides itself slowly right up the ramp on my RV hitch. And if not in an RV park, I can use the gas generator to keep the bike charged. But kinda inefficient to use gas to charge an electric bike!
-Don- Cottonwood, AZ
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Life is a wild card. One Little Rock pop up between the belt and sprocket and it will likely break. Mine snapped one mile from home the day I got it. 2 weeks later i got to ride my new bike
Is your bike a 2017 or newer? The reason I asked is because I think they improved the belt in 2017.
-Don- Cottonwood, AZ
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Swingarm removal is easy, but the proper tools are large and would be cumbersome to carry around. I carry a spare belt because lead times to obtain a belt vary between overnight and two months. The tools are easier to find at a friendly service shop than a belt. I've snapped one 2016 S/DS belt in 33,000mi.
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I saw the belt changed a few years ago at Laguna Seca on one of the race bikes. Took a surprisingly short period of time.
Swing arm was not removed, just loosened on drive side and belt fed through. Rider chose wrong gearing so they switched
rear sprocket and belt. I imagine that swing arm had been removed previously to allow for the modified swap.
So, it CAN be done, possibly just not by us " Mere Mortals "
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DonTom glad it shed some light for you. As to your follow up.
The emergency belt was from the post I linked, he had some made up and i don't know if he has anymore but you could PM him and ask. It was stretchy so you could pull it over the rear sprocket and not have to loosen the rear wheel.
A clever idea but again it was meant to get you off the side of the road not travel for 60 more miles or anything like that. The stock belt would need to have the rear wheel axle removed to loop it over the sprocket.
The "catching air" means the rear wheel comes off the ground hopping over a rock or tree trunk or whatever. The more off roading FX models have this happen more often. People would have the throttle open and when it hits the ground it puts too much stress on the belt and snaps it.
Speaking of which I know the FX had a chain adapter that would replace the belt set up but I can't say for sure if they ever made one for the "S" bikes.
I had high hopes for the thicker, wider 17+ belts but I have seen people posting them ripping pretty quick with low miles. It may just be a few cases but I have seen it done.
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Swingarm removal is easy, but the proper tools are large and would be cumbersome to carry around. I carry a spare belt because lead times to obtain a belt vary between overnight and two months. The tools are easier to find at a friendly service shop than a belt. I've snapped one 2016 S/DS belt in 33,000mi.
Yeah, I took a slightly closer look today and see a rubber plug that looks like it's covering the swingarm bolt. But I didn't remove the plug. Perhaps I will do that when I get back to Auburn, just to see what tools I will need.
BTW, I am going from Reno to Auburn via AZ! The DS ZF 6.5 has been very handy on this trip.
I will order a couple of belts the next time I am in Elk Grove. Perhaps that will be next week. I hit the road in the morning and will slowly start heading to Auburn. I hope most of the smoke has cleared by now.
-Don- Cottonwood, AZ
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They break more because of stones between pully and belt.
The 'air': jumping and bike comes down while you have gaslever open: snap, loose some tooth on belt or it breaks.
We in the Netherlands have a lot of speed slowering bumps and it can also happen likewise.
My belt is 34000km tho without any wear so far (tooth all there and no cuts or whatever if you move the belt with hands.
I will let it be replaced at 50000km if it still holds.
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I just happened to snap a belt on a beautiful hill over Bologna (Italy) while on a tour. Luckily, I brought a spare belt and had a very experienced ICE riding buddy with me. He organised some tools in the valley with the specs I have him. We then did it as a roadside repair weithin the hour (just for the tinkering part, getting tools from a mechanic took longer). Without any lift you can hold the rear lifted when you pull the bike over the stand and front wheel. It was definitely an experience I don't want to have again but it can be done. The Wiki outlines a procedure that is too complicated imho. There are several unecessary steps and you basically only need to remove the swing arm on each side. Neither the wheel nor the brake lever needs to be removed (but makes it easier if you have the time and tools). Anyway, the Wiki propably saved me since it was the best starting point to get an idea about the belt swap.
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Zero sells a chain kit. If I were planning to ride predominantly offroad like you describe, I'd seriously consider it.
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_6&products_id=192&zenid=d947b52nkhvtqludbhri270rg5
Shoot that's only for the FX. Get an FX?
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Obligatory wiki reference on belt replacement:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Belt_Replacement_Procedure
And the belt in general which lists risk factors:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Belt
Personally, my 2016 DSR belt lasted 30k miles and broke going over a sharp pothole. I changed it roadside but brought a center lift to do it. My 2013 DS belt lasted 25k miles at least.
A chain will work better off-road, and the 2017+ models all have a chain kit OEM part entry now.
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Zero sells a chain kit. If I were planning to ride predominantly offroad like you describe, I'd seriously consider it.
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_6&products_id=192&zenid=d947b52nkhvtqludbhri270rg5
Shoot that's only for the FX. Get an FX?
Zero’s website doesn’t list it but all 2017+ models have a chain kit option. Check with a dealer’s parts lookup.
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Zero’s website doesn’t list it but all 2017+ models have a chain kit option. Check with a dealer’s parts lookup.
That's nice to know since both of my ebikes are 2017.
Do these chains have a master link? Are there any disadvantages to the chain? I need to decide if I should make the change to the chain before I buy spare belts.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Zero’s website doesn’t list it but all 2017+ models have a chain kit option. Check with a dealer’s parts lookup.
That's nice to know since both of my ebikes are 2017.
Do these chains have a master link? Are there any disadvantages to the chain? I need to decide if I should make the change to the chain before I buy spare belts.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I haven’t used a chain on a Zero, but typically it’s described as being louder.
I’m used to chains on my gas motorbikes, so I assume it has a master link and needs regular lubrication, and is more expensive to replace when it finally goes.
I guess the motor might get dirty oil flung on it over time, so it’s potentially a little more involved to clean.
I’ll let others comment with more direct experience.
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Zero’s website doesn’t list it but all 2017+ models have a chain kit option. Check with a dealer’s parts lookup.
That's nice to know since both of my ebikes are 2017.
Do these chains have a master link? Are there any disadvantages to the chain? I need to decide if I should make the change to the chain before I buy spare belts.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I haven’t used a chain on a Zero, but typically it’s described as being louder.
I’m used to chains on my gas motorbikes, so I assume it has a master link and needs regular lubrication, and is more expensive to replace when it finally goes.
I guess the motor might get dirty oil flung on it over time, so it’s potentially a little more involved to clean.
I’ll let others comment with more direct experience.
It has been years since I have seen a old-school master link on an O-ring chain. Now they all come with a press-on "master link" that requires a special tool to press on the link with its 4 rubber O-rings and to rivet the ends of the chain pins after the link is pressed on to the chain. Not something easily done by the side of the road.
One the other hand, chains last a lot longer than they used to, almost never break and usually give ample warning when they start to wear out. However, they certainly are a lot heavier than a belt, require more maintenance, are really messy and are noisy when being rotated with out the sound of an ICE covering up the noise.
And most O-ring chains cost more than a replacement belt for a Zero. However, that is not the case with BMW drive belts, though. You really get soaked when buying one of those. :o
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Thanks for the info. I think I will stick with the belt and carry a spare.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hi all,
Slightly off topic, but still a belt question!
I am driving a Zero S 2017. 4400km. My belt snapped although I was (and I am only) driving on standard road, no bumps whatsoever.
Did this happen to anybody? I find it very early...
Asked my dealer if this could go on warranty but it seems Zero's reply is no. They offered 30% off a new belt. which leads to a 170Eur price tag (including mounting by the mechanic), which is not particularly cheap. I also proposed to do it myself but the guy mentioned you need precise alignment to avoid damage to the motor etc... So I went with their mechanics. Good thing is they have it in stock, so repair the next day it snapped.
But does anybody has a "manual" for putting a belt on my own, with the attention points or alignment procedure?
The point if it can just snap randomly even with low mileage and mild driving, I can only think about getting a few belts at home and be ready to change myself!
Thanks already for any feedback!
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Hhmm, you can do it yourself, the alignment isn't that hard.
Turn the wheel a few times with your hand and if it stays about 1-2mm of the edge it's good.
The tension of the belt is also not that hard (common sense or you can use a tool).
See the unofficial Zero manual for it online.
But it's really early, yes. Mine got 34000km on normal road and some minor offroading trough forest sand roads.
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> Thanks for the info. I think I will stick with the belt and carry a spare.
I broke a belt and changed it yesterday.
In addition to the belt, carry a 10mm allen wrench (gotta detach fork to fit belt through)
And tools for tension adjustment (27mm wrench or socket to loosen axle and 13mm open ends for the actual tension bolt and locknut, and tension measurer)
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...I am driving a Zero S 2017. 4400km. My belt snapped although I was (and I am only) driving on standard road, no bumps whatsoever...
Belt tension increases through initial wear-in. Temperature changes can also affect tension. I think it is not unusual if you never adjusted the tension and alignment that a new belt could see extra stresses.
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...I am driving a Zero S 2017. 4400km. My belt snapped although I was (and I am only) driving on standard road, no bumps whatsoever...
Belt tension increases through initial wear-in. Temperature changes can also affect tension. I think it is not unusual if you never adjusted the tension and alignment that a new belt could see extra stresses.
I have been checking the belt tension since I bought my 2018 S and I haven't noticed any change in the belt tension so far. Even the rubber dust on the rear wheel has just about disappeared now. That is a big improvement over the thinner belt used on my 2014 model, which never stopped shedding rubber dust.
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Was not 2017 S the same belt as 2016? ZeroManual says the 2017 S has same belt as 2016 S(R)/DS(R)
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Was not 2017 S the same belt as 2016? ZeroManual says the 2017 S has same belt as 2016 S(R)/DS(R)
I thought Zero transitioned to the wider belt in 2017. ???
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Was not 2017 S the same belt as 2016? ZeroManual says the 2017 S has same belt as 2016 S(R)/DS(R)
I thought Zero transitioned to the wider belt in 2017. ???
They did.
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...I am driving a Zero S 2017. 4400km. My belt snapped although I was (and I am only) driving on standard road, no bumps whatsoever...
Belt tension increases through initial wear-in. Temperature changes can also affect tension. I think it is not unusual if you never adjusted the tension and alignment that a new belt could see extra stresses.
That's counter intuitive but I believe it's true.
I can't remember the science behind it tho.
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Hhmm, you can do it yourself, the alignment isn't that hard.
Turn the wheel a few times with your hand and if it stays about 1-2mm of the edge it's good.
......
Here are my notes on the procedure.
NOTE this on a 2016 (DSR) & setup for my availability of tools.
These notes are helpful to me but know that I'm a rookie on this type of belt & Im not guaranteeing I've got it a100% right.
However I do have lots of experience with V-belts.
(20/30kg tension) (8-30-18 Modified tension as was previously incorrect@20-40kg)
Jacking left screw(bolt) out (adding tension) moves the belt to the right.
Best to get the belt in the correct position (left/right) then adjust tension.
NOTE: Position belt with a right side biases as it will shift to the left when the axle bolt is tightened.
Must use rolling head prybar to pry the right side towards its jack-screw (or just Smack the tire/rim in the desired direction/towards the jack screw) *
NOTE: 1/6 turn of Left jack screw appears to cause a 10KG difference to tension.
Use 1-1/16" box wrench (or socket) to tension axle nut to 102NM (75#/')
Also recommend removing the jack bolts & grinding off the top to smooth them out so the embossed markings don't dig into the soft aluminum swing arm.
Wish the bolts were fine thread for finer adjustment.
*In my opinion, the right jackbolt should draw the right side of the axle towards the front & because it doesn't, it has to be forced via other means.
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Relevant wiki links, in order of decreasing frequency:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Belt_Tension_Check
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Belt_Adjustment
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Belt_Replacement_Procedure
And I made a stub page for the install using Greg Hassler's recently-uploaded video:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Chain_Kit_Install
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> Thanks for the info. I think I will stick with the belt and carry a spare.
I broke a belt and changed it yesterday.
In addition to the belt, carry a 10mm allen wrench (gotta detach fork to fit belt through)
And tools for tension adjustment (27mm wrench or socket to loosen axle and 13mm open ends for the actual tension bolt and locknut, and tension measurer)
Thanks, I do have all that stuff and I will take it with me from now on. But I still first have to go buy the belts, which I will do next week when I am in Elk Grove.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hi all,
Thanks for your detailed information!
I finally got it repaired by the dealer. And guess what? The bike make less noise now! There was indeed before a kind of noise sounding like something sliding intermittently on a surface or so. But being there from day 1 I just thought it was normal => Maybe the belt was originally misaligned and that could have led to the early snapping of it?
I am going to check with them if they even test drove the bike before selling it to me => Sounds like that they would have notice this small misalignment!
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I just now discovered that I can buy Zero parts on line. I just ordered the last Zero drive belt they have here. (https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/default.asp)
I discovered my 2017 DS and SR use the exact same belt.
1 x ZM30-08086 - Zero MC's Drive Belt - ZM30-08086 @ $125.00
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SubTotal: $125.00
Shipping: $0.00 : FREE Domestic USA Ground Shipping ($8.95 value)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thanks Don. That is a useful resource. :)
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Hi all,
Slightly off topic, but still a belt question!
I am driving a Zero S 2017. 4400km. My belt snapped although I was (and I am only) driving on standard road, no bumps whatsoever.
Did this happen to anybody? I find it very early
Just happened to me today. Took it to the dealer amd on the way home the belt snapped. Was only going about 20 mph, and thankfully only 3 blocks from home. Bought the bike brand new and it only has 8200 miles on it. Dealer even marked the belt and tension as good before I left. They did however just replace my tires. So, I wonder if maybe they didn't align it properly. 😒
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Hi all,
Slightly off topic, but still a belt question!
I am driving a Zero S 2017. 4400km. My belt snapped although I was (and I am only) driving on standard road, no bumps whatsoever.
Did this happen to anybody? I find it very early
Just happened to me today. Took it to the dealer amd on the way home the belt snapped. Was only going about 20 mph, and thankfully only 3 blocks from home. Bought the bike brand new and it only has 8200 miles on it. Dealer even marked the belt and tension as good before I left. They did however just replace my tires. So, I wonder if maybe they didn't align it properly. 😒
It has been my experience that the people assigned to replace tires at motorcycle dealerships are not always the sharpest tacks in the shop and are usually in a hurry to get the job finished, too. That person certainly could have made a mistake, especially if he wasn't all that familiar with belt drive setup and adjustment.
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Just happened to me today. Took it to the dealer and on the way home the belt snapped. Was only going about 20 mph, and thankfully only 3 blocks from home. Bought the bike brand new and it only has 8200 miles on it. Dealer even marked the belt and tension as good before I left. They did however just replace my tires. So, I wonder if maybe they didn't align it properly.
My guess is they screwed up. Don't expect the dealers to always know what they are doing on the countless various models they service.
Shadow in this forum taught me how to align the drive belt. IIRC, while the rear tire axle nut is still loose, have the belt 's RIGHT edge line up with the RIGHT edge of the wheel sprocket. This will change as the axle bolt is tightened to spec. After the axle nut is tightened, on the LEFT side of the belt, there should just be enough room for a credit card edge to fit in there between the left lifted area of the sprocket and the belt.
If I didn't notice this credit card spacing, I would not ride the bike.
Do I have that right Shadow (or anybody)?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Just happened to me today. Took it to the dealer and on the way home the belt snapped. Was only going about 20 mph, and thankfully only 3 blocks from home. Bought the bike brand new and it only has 8200 miles on it. Dealer even marked the belt and tension as good before I left. They did however just replace my tires. So, I wonder if maybe they didn't align it properly.
My guess is they screwed up. Don't expect the dealers to always know what they are doing on the countless various models they service.
Shadow in this forum taught me how to align the drive belt. IIRC, while the rear tire axle nut is still loose, have the belt 's RIGHT edge line up with the RIGHT edge of the wheel sprocket. This will change as the axle bolt is tightened to spec. After the axle nut is tightened, on the LEFT side of the belt, there should just be enough room for a credit card edge to fit in there between the left lifted area of the sprocket and the belt.
If I didn't notice this credit card spacing, I would not ride the bike.
Do I have that right Shadow (or anybody)?
-Don- Reno, NV
The Belt Adjustment page on the wiki should already reflect that. Maybe more vaguely than you’ve put it.
But I’ll check.
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Thanks Don. That is a useful resource. :)
I received the new belt today. This belt will live in my 2017 DS ZF 6.5, on the side that is not hogged up by battery, along with other repair stuff. This is the bike I take on RV trips and can be far from any Zero dealers.
But I will soon order another belt for the other bike when they have them in stock again.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Does anybody know how sensitive the belt is to damage when off the bike? When I ordered a spare belt, it came in a giant box fully uncoiled. I saw online that the bicycle belts come coiled, so they're a third of the full diameter. That sure makes a big difference in the portability for carrying a spare, but I'd hate to risk damaging the spare and having it snap because it was improperly stored or handled.
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Does anybody know how sensitive the belt is to damage when off the bike? When I ordered a spare belt, it came in a giant box fully uncoiled. I saw online that the bicycle belts come coiled, so they're a third of the full diameter. That sure makes a big difference in the portability for carrying a spare, but I'd hate to risk damaging the spare and having it snap because it was improperly stored or handled.
Mine came coiled in three large coils.
But I will make an assumption (danger!) based on timing belt info. which I assume are probably made much the same way.
The rule there is to have no bends / coils in the belt that are smaller than the smallest sprocket where used. IOW, a coil that has no curves smaller than your motor sprocket is fine. IOW, keep the curves in the unused belt larger than how it will be used on the smallest sprocket.
This seems logical for any belt, IMO.
Also, they cannot take much pressure pushing in or out on the belt. Never use a tool directly on the belt.
So carrying a spare is fine, but I would still keep the coils as big as possible, but you have a lot of room to play with because the motor sprocket is rather small on our Zeros.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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"Thirds-looped" is how I carry my spare belt (for 2016 DSR). It fits in the pocket of a Safety Seal tire repair zippered pouch.
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this one? https://smile.amazon.com/Light-Deluxe-Repair-Repairs-storable/dp/B010LYKR70/
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this one? https://smile.amazon.com/Light-Deluxe-Repair-Repairs-storable/dp/B010LYKR70/
I have it down as a "Safety Seal SSKAB30" purchased for $42.99 usd. I've had to use it to patch a rear tire; along with the mini compressor (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6347.0) it was a permanent fix (although of course I soon replaced the tire as I do not consider any patch permanent on a motorcycle capable of 100mph speeds!)
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Can you post a picture of the belt looping to fit the bag?
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Can you post a picture of the belt looping to fit the bag?
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Anybody else try the Carbon Drive Smartphone app to check drive belt tension? I am quite impressed how well it works. Much better than the Gate's mechanical gauge that moves almost every time it is moved away from under the belt to read.
My Zero DS 6.5 belt measures 61 hz, checked several times. The normal range is from 42.5 to 124 hz, so I am well within spec.
See page 6-19 of the 2017 Owner's manual. (http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2017/2017-Zero-Owners-Manual-S-SR-DS-DSR.pdf)
So I decided to check the belt on my large Harley, the only other belt bike I have. It measures 177 hz. However, I have no idea what the normal range will be for this belt, but the app does seem to work on any motorcycle drive belt.
This app will be the only way I check my Zero belts from now on. Very simple and easy to use, just takes a few seconds to check the tightness of the belt by the microphone in the Smartphone.
-Don- Reno, NV