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[mrwilsn]

My guess is that Zero is not designing their motorcycles for EV enthusiasts and "early adopters", but for the "man on the street".  That is where future sales are.  EV enthusiasts will buy the bikes just because they don't run on gasoline.  But there are a limited number of those people.  What Zero wants to do is to attract customers who just want a practical motorcycle that doesn't need gasoline, is easy to maintain and ride.  How they decide to do that might not make sense to most of the people that frequent this forum.  It will be interesting to see what direction they go in with the 2016 models.

It seems to me that the logic being used here and by many others is that EV motorcycles will only sell in volume when they can match the range and refuel time of an ICE motorcycle (or the price comes down enough to justify the reduced range).  Therefore, Zero should focus all resources towards making a bike that can go further on a charge and recharge faster.

While I agree that range and recharge time are important....like....REALLY important....Zero isn't big enough to be the source of major innovation in battery technology...they are really just along for the ride trying to incorporate the best technology available for the times.

In my opinion Zero MUST focus on the "bells and whistles".  If the interior of a Tesla Model S looked like a car built in the 80's with analog instrument clusters and basically looked like a nice conversion and didn't have a sleek modern interior, with a large 17in display etc....do you think they would have had even a fraction of the sales??

The question Zero should be asking....at the same price point which will more consumers choose

A BMW or Harley or Yamaha or ?? EV motorcycle with all the bells and whistles you would expect from a top shelf motorcycle that goes 100 highway miles on a charge

Or a Zero SR that is unchanged from 2015 except it goes 130 highway miles on a charge instead of the current 90 highway miles.

At the current price of batteries...you can add a lot of "bells and whistles" for the same price as a 30% bigger battery.

Of course, they don't have to choose between the two....they can continue to offer each model with various sized batteries and they can continue to make a bare bones electric motorcycle for those that want it while still offering a "fully loaded" model for those willing to pay more for the extras.

Personally, my dream bike would be an MV Agusta Turismo Veloce Lusso with an electric drive train.

[Richard230]

If you are looking for "bells and whistles" check out the Ego Energica.  It has them all.  But the price is such that the market is going to be pretty limited, maybe 500 worldwide. Zero could certainly make a really nice electric motorcycle for $40,000, but they are trying for volume and doing what they can to get the prices down so the average guy (and fleet/government agency) can afford them. That means they have to cut costs wherever they can and the cost of "bells and whistles" (such as traction control, computer-controlled suspension, LED lighting, etc.) really start to add up, especially when you are a small volume manufacturer that can not purchase tens of thousands of units from Bosch and the like. I still think Zero is going in the right direction - if their goal is to increase sales in this very limited and immature marketplace.

[wavelet]

If you are looking for "bells and whistles" check out the Ego Energica.  It has them all.  But the price is such that the market is going to be pretty limited, maybe 500 worldwide. Zero could certainly make a really nice electric motorcycle for $40,000, but they are trying for volume and doing what they can to get the prices down so the average guy (and fleet/government agency) can afford them. That means they have to cut costs wherever they can and the cost of "bells and whistles" (such as traction control, computer-controlled suspension, LED lighting, etc.) really start to add up, especially when you are a small volume manufacturer that can not purchase tens of thousands of units from Bosch and the like. I still think Zero is going in the right direction - if their goal is to increase sales in this very limited and immature marketplace.

I fully agree -- Zero's management energy & power (pun fully intended) should be devoted to the core feature set.
Right now, range at highway speeds  is IMHO the most significant, with the closely allied subject of quicker en-route charging.
I've been more recently about the power self-limiter cutting in rather quickly -- maybe that's also a high-priority issue.

I'm really curious to see what the new models will bring... I'll be disappointed (but not surprised) if Killroy's source above ends up being correct, and there are few changes because there were many, engineering-wise, last year; the Intel "tick tock" product cycle (significant product releases alternate with less-risky "small improvement" ones) has been adopted by a lot of manufacturers.
Zero hired many sales & marketing people this year, and might be focusing on sales next year (which requires focusing on post-sale support as well).

[vinceherman]

I can't imagine how cancelling indicators would work on a motorcycle?

On my GoldWing, the turn signals cancel when 2 conditions are met.  A minimum time (7 seconds?) has elapsed and a minimum distance (700 ft?) has been traveled.  I have also heard that there might be a tilt sensor involved, but the 2 condition logic above appears to cover the behavior I notice.

[RickSteeb]

It is not just the heat differential that matters but also the ability to cool. I don't know about engines, but for people, we lose it is said 25 *times* more heat in water than we do in air with the same temperature. That's why hypothermia occurs very fast (minutes) in cold water where we can survive hours in the same temperature air.

The only way to settle that is by looking at the math formulae for the heat exchange with liquids and gasses and plug-in several heat differential values and the correct heat absorption (heat capacity) values and see if the larger heat differential under normal operating temperatures with air will outweigh the higher heat absorption capacity of the coolant.

I'll give another empirical example of water cooling being a LOT more effective than air cooling, with *exactly* the same temperature differential and exactly the same cooling surfaces in both cases. I make home-made yogurt. The milk is boiled, so 212F. It needs to cool off to about 112F before I add the yogurt starter, which dies in hotter milk and does not work well in colder milk. If I leave the container with hot milk to cool in the air on the porch outside, it takes several hours to cool-off in 40F air. It takes just minutes in 40F tap water to cool off. Now, that might not be fair, because I replace the water that warms-up with colder water from the tap, where on a motorbike I would need to air-cool it with a radiator, and if that radiator is small, it won't be as effective as just getting new cold liquid in the system as I do with the milk. But the point of radiators is not just to get the air cooling exchange in a better place where there is more airflow, but to also have a larger cooling surface than the motor would allow. So they increase the heat exchange 3-ways: more cooling surface, better circulation, higher thermal capacity of the liquid.

And this http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2002/July/1/Airframe-and-Powerplant-%286%29 not to metion thermal excursions and gradients...

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks for posting that link Rick, I found it very interesting indeed!

[DanyEarth]

Can't wait to see what Zero have for us in the next year!

[mrwilsn]

If you are looking for "bells and whistles" check out the Ego Energica.  It has them all.  But the price is such that the market is going to be pretty limited, maybe 500 worldwide. Zero could certainly make a really nice electric motorcycle for $40,000, but they are trying for volume and doing what they can to get the prices down so the average guy (and fleet/government agency) can afford them. That means they have to cut costs wherever they can and the cost of "bells and whistles" (such as traction control, computer-controlled suspension, LED lighting, etc.) really start to add up, especially when you are a small volume manufacturer that can not purchase tens of thousands of units from Bosch and the like. I still think Zero is going in the right direction - if their goal is to increase sales in this very limited and immature marketplace.

I am familiar with Energica.  This bike is way over priced at $34K (aside from the fact that they are in an unchallenged market space I don't see anything on the feature set that commands this price) but I like a lot of what they have going for them except for a few things.

1. Needs a more upright riding position with a windscreen to accommodate said riding position.
2. Need to be able to attach lockable hard side cases big enough for full face helmet.  For the price they are charging its criminal that they don't have this option....especially since they are keen to call it a "streetbike" and not a "racebike".
3. Only one dealer in USA and its in CA....which is not close to me.

[Killroy]

How long do you think it will be until dealers will get demo bikes and customers will get their bikes. 

[MostlyBonkers]

From what I've gleaned from following this forum I think it's likely dealers in the U.S. will get them just before Christmas and they'll be more widely available in the New Year.

It's difficult to predict though because demand is likely to be higher than in previous years. Supply might be a problem. Give them six months to deliver to a dealer near you and you shouldn't be disappointed.

Others here may have a better idea. Hopefully Zero will give an indication of availability tomorrow, just like Apple do when they announce their products.

[Lecram]

The 2016 lineup! I see a Zero DSR and it seems that the battery is now 13.6, but that's hard to see.
Also a FX Supermoto

[Lecram]

The pics have been on Autoblog, but now only in the Google cache. I saw a thumbnail of a charge plug in the 'tank'

*link deleted by Skadamo*

[skadamo]

Hey guys, I realize I can't censor the Internet. Domenick accidentally posted these images and wants to make it right. Please don't post links to the pics here. Let's help out a guy who has been busting his a$$ blogging about electric longer than Zero has been a thing.

[Lecram]

Yeah, that's internet, man

I posted all pics already on Facebook where nobody but Facebook can remove these

[roma258]

FX Sumo from the factory, nice!