ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Low On Cash on March 13, 2017, 02:16:59 AM
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Well I was all "Chipper" the other day and figured I would take the old DSR out for my weekly spin on the twisties to Suches, Ga, but as I was uncovering my bike, the better half mentioned there was an error on our tag bill and asked me to stop by the tag agency in town to get it corrected.
As I looked at the bill I almost fell over when I began to realize the tag fee for my little electric Zero had elevated almost 1100% from $21.00 a year to an unbelievable $225.20 thanks to a wonderful “Alternative Fuel Feeâ€. Here I am riding lightweight bike that have absolutely no effect in the deterioration of our National highways system, but “per capita†of what a bike actually would use - I’ll pay around 5000% more then some rich guy driving his $150,000 Tesla around town.
It’s now clear the Obama CAA “Pencil Heads†in Washington must have been using their vast clean air verses road tax intelligence to come up with this goofy math which forces us electric bike owners to pay gas tax for others driving electric cages. I'm seeing less and less reasons to own an electric bike now.
Making matters worse - when I add this $224 to my $500+ insurance bill, because my Zero DS has an R after which tells insurance its a racing bike which it ain’t, I’m now getting screwed by both the government and Insurance companies at the same time on this wonderful bike. Ain’t life Great? My good old ICE bikes are sure looking good right about now!
By the Way - If any one is Interested, I just listed my DSR on this forum.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6710.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6710.0)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/fueltax.jpg)
*edit 20170313 by Shadow* fixed topic title, remove font tag, clean up img tag width. Closes open moderation reports.
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I don't think this is Obama's fault or his administration's for that matter. This alternative fuel fee seems assessed at the state level, not at the federal level. It's worth mentioning that less oversight and less centralized federal government influence is hardly Obamian, but rather something republicans would do. That said, I hear you - bikes like that being assessed huge fees is pointless...
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Some elected people are taking great efforts to kick EV's in the ass.
Do you know anyone in STATE government who hates you?
Rather than selling your EV - I recommend getting active in politics.
You should find much of the legislation passed in each state is very similar.
The legislation owes its roots to an organization called ALEC.
Couple google searches should bring you up to speed, but here is a start....
http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-science/technology/states-embrace-anti-ev-movement-by-penalizing-electric-car-owners/article/486379 (http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-science/technology/states-embrace-anti-ev-movement-by-penalizing-electric-car-owners/article/486379)
Anyway the nice thing about legislation is it can change right back again (provided, unlike me, you haven't been gerrymandered out of influence).
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-wisconsin-redistricting-idUSKBN13H0SV (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-wisconsin-redistricting-idUSKBN13H0SV)
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Probably related to the TV ads I've seen lately that extol how wonderful oil is.
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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Some elected people are taking great efforts to kick EV's in the ass.
Do you know anyone in government who hates you?
Rather than selling your EV - I recommend getting active in politics.
You should find much of the legislation passed in each state is very similar.
The legislation owes its roots to an organization called ALEC.
Couple google searches should bring you up to speed, but here is a start....
http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-science/technology/states-embrace-anti-ev-movement-by-penalizing-electric-car-owners/article/486379 (http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-science/technology/states-embrace-anti-ev-movement-by-penalizing-electric-car-owners/article/486379)
Anyway the nice thing about legislation is it can change right back again (provided, like me, you haven't been gerrymandered out of influence).
Thanks for your reply's guys -
Not trying to make this thread political but this goofy tax was done and approved on Obama's Watch!
Also while I appreciate the comment: "Rather than selling your EV - I recommend getting active in politics"
Man you have to be kidding, this government (both sides) is down the tubes, there's a Civil War going on!
I never seen such ignorance in my life. Nobody is fixing this mess!
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http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_juice/2017/03/the_automobile_industry_may_get_the_weaker_epa_regulations_it_wants.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_juice/2017/03/the_automobile_industry_may_get_the_weaker_epa_regulations_it_wants.html)
Basically, a state-specific tax, which only Georgia charges as far I know, and that at some level makes sense to assess (but at a lower amount, IMO for bikes), as long as the proceeds of it go to road construction and maintenance. There is a whole debate about collecting road tax "per mile" as opposed at the pump, which probably makes more sense than taxing the fuel, especially if # of wheels and gross weight are accounted for (but I have not looked into it much) ...
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The tax on gasoline in Georgia is about $0.26/gallon and is - according to the authors of the bill - intended as a use tax for the roads.
So it should be reasonable to pay (without blame assigning) the missing fuel tax for using the roads, even if you ride less than 769 gallons worth.
The inequity of motorcycle EV vs Car EV needs addressing. I've said that before.
GA simultaneously revoked the $5k EV credit and imposed this EV registration charge is a well planned shift.
Even I knew about this - and I live in Wisconsin. How did a Georgia resident get surprised? I have seen this much ignorance.
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This has nothing to do with Obama. He has no control over Georgia state taxes, that's the voters job. Decades ago Georgia was failing the EPA's clean air standards, so they made some EV incentives to compensate. As a result, Atlanta became a major hub for Nissan Leaf sales. Last year Georgia law makers got rid of the the incentives, and placed a $200 annual fee/tax on all EVs (roughly a years worth of gas taxes from the average SUV) regardless of miles driven. You're a GA resident and EV driver, you should have been aware of this, it was on every EV website.
http://insideevs.com/georgia-kill-5000-electric-car-credit-will-impose-200-annual-road-use-fee-evs/ (http://insideevs.com/georgia-kill-5000-electric-car-credit-will-impose-200-annual-road-use-fee-evs/)
CA will continue to do good things for the environment for the next few years, doesn't mean Trump is responsible for it.
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Last year I paid $172 for the CA yearly "tag" for my 2014S. But there are several proposed bills in circulation in the state legislature that would increase that amount by between $38 and $65 per vehicle to pay for repairing our roads (we can only hope that the money will actually find its way onto the pavement) and would charge an additional $100 per year for all electric vehicles (no mention of a break for electric motorcycles). The gas tax at the pump would also be increased by 12 cents on top of the 38 cents per gallon that we are currently paying in CA.
Personally, I am not too happy about the idea of charging a flat fee for each vehicle owned to fund road maintenance, as that doesn't make any sense since many people in our state have many more than one vehicle, especially motorcycles, and can only drive one at a time. Plus, charging electric motorcycles the same as a Tesla, also doesn't seem very fair as we have little impact on the roads due to our light weight, our mileage traveled is low compared with most electric cars and there are so few electric motorcycles registered in the state. But apparently, the legislators feel that most EV owners drive Teslas and if you can afford one of those, you can certainly afford another $100 in licensing fees each year.
As usual in California, any group that is seen as having too much money is ripe for the plucking. :(
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Like I said, I don't want this to get political, but bottom line there was all sorts of incentives to buy electric cars so we could save the planet and it looked like everyone was going to be happy as hell. There was even government federal tax credits when we bought vehicles. Hell even Tesla got "Billions & Billions" of dollars of our money yet he's still screwing the tax payers even today because he funnels all his US state cars sales to Nevada because he has a special no tax deal in Nevada, But don't worry guys us motorcycle dudes will pick up the slack for him!
Again this was while Obama was at the helm and "Yes" he approved it all by himself just like he did the 500 million dollars that you and I lost that he funneled to Solyndra with their solar scandal.
Now it's pay-up time - so all the electric car and bike suckers like us who bought them are suddenly now the "Black Sheep" since the pencil heads say we're stealing money from the government and not paying our fair share of road tax. So what do the morons do, they just blanket everyone with this outrageous $150-264 for a electric bike. Wow Honda is going to pay the price for this one on their new low cost 2.8 kw Electric EV Cub commute bike which will have to also pay those goofy fees.
Ain't Life Great!
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Like I said, I don't want this to get political, but bottom line there was all sorts of incentives to buy electric cars so we could save the planet and it looked like everyone was going to be happy as hell. There was even government federal tax credits when we bought vehicles. Hell even Tesla got "Billions & Billions" of dollars of our money yet he's still screwing the tax payers even today because he funnels all his US state cars sales to Nevada because he has a special no tax deal in Nevada, But don't worry guys us motorcycle dudes will pick up the slack for him!
Again this was while Obama was at the helm and "Yes" he approved it all by himself just like he did the 500 million dollars that you and I lost that he funneled to Solyndra with their solar scandal.
Now it's pay-up time - so all the electric car and bike suckers like us who bought them are suddenly now the "Black Sheep" since the pencil heads say we're stealing money from the government and not paying our fair share of road tax. So what do the morons do, they just blanket everyone with this outrageous $150-264 for a electric bike. Wow Honda is going to pay the price for this one on their new low cost 2.8 kw Electric EV Cub commute bike which will have to also pay those goofy fees.
Ain't Life Great!
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Incentives were not for you to save the planet (which you aren't really doing anyway), they were to propel new technology. I got a similar tax credit in 1981 for my polluting diesel car.
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Mike the real ass kick is the ad valorem tax you paid when first got the bike tag that was over $1000. Plus the off the lot price drop you will have to swallow. It makes flipping bikes a bad idea. You might want to rethink this move.
On a side note I have State Farm on my 13 DS and I pay $60 a year. I know they want more for the "R" but damn how much coverage do you have?
Also for anyone else interested GA's gas tax was set up to jump MUCH higher as certain gas price points are reached. When gas was near $4.00 the gas tax money was pouring in and they got used to the extra money. So now that its back down they are trying to get their "fix" in other ways. It's a pure state thing here no feds involved.
Plus we had a 20% EV credit on top of the 10% fed credit so people could lease Leafs for like a few hundred bucks a year so yes we have tons of them now. Any body want a $8000 2013 leaf we got em.
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They didn't charge me. I don't know if I'm grandfathered in or they will just hit me next year, but $20 only here in GA. Mike the real ass kick is the ad valorem tax you paid when first got the bike tag that was over $1000. Plus the off the lot price drop you will have to swallow. It makes flipping bikes a bad idea. You might want to rethink this move.
On a side note I have State Farm on my 13 DS and I pay $60 a year. I know they want more for the "R" but damn how much coverage do you have?
Also for anyone else interested GA's gas tax was set up to jump MUCH higher as certain gas price points are reached. When gas was near $4.00 the gas tax money was pouring in and they got used to the extra money. So now that its back down they are trying to get their "fix" in other ways. It's a pure state thing here no feds involved.
Plus we had a 20% EV credit on top of the 10% fed credit so people could lease Leafs for like a few hundred bucks a year so yes we have tons of them now. Any body want a $8000 2013 leaf we got em.
LOL hey New to electric - there must be a sign on my back - yeah its not a pretty picture for me.
Regarding the insurance no one is getting full insurance for $60 believe me you're policy is nothing like mine. If you get in a real accident you will be in big trouble, Just uninsured motorist alone will coat you $60 by itself.
Most all my other bikes I pay around $100-200 year. The Zero DS was around a $100 but the DSR was I think $480 or so with full coverage. I had an Augusta Dragster RR bike and it was $500 as well. Anytime you insure a "Race" bike it will triple your cost because in most cases you won't live after an accident.
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There are so many insults in the original post here that your "political" comments are a ton of horseshit.
Stop posting now. I don't care whether you sell or keep your bike; I just don't want this noise on this site.
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Please use the "Report to moderator" (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6690.0) link on the posting. Far worse has been said already on EMF about UK govt although arguably with much greater tact. If that nonsense bothers you too then it should be reported.
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That is way to much for a EV and way, way to much for a Moto EV.
I think it is good idea for EVs to pay right sized fee to be fair for other tax payers. A fair fee to me would be $60-$150 per year based on a average of 12000 miles per year. I know that is a lot of a miles for a moto, but I don't like the idea of devices that record per mile or some kind of process where you report miles per year.
FYI, Tesla did not get "Billions and Billions". Its good to fact check the difference between a check getting cut to Tesla and a tax discount - the opportunity to pay less taxes - also like owning a EV and not paying fuel taxes (depending on the sate). The articles about Tesla's billions of subsidies sound they they got cut a check, but someone with a agenda added up Nevada tax discount 20 years into the future if Tesla hired a booming economy amount of people.
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I'm a co-moderator here and have been seeing the reports on this thread. I think we'll always encounter folks whose politics don't agree with ours. When I encounter them I either ignore them or I use it as an opportunity to let them know (politely) that other viewpoints exist. I have, however, given up trying to convince them that their viewpoint is wrong. I think Richard230 and other old timers might agree with me that our country has gotten so polarized that no one can be convinced to come to the center.
That said, we do value polite discourse here and have little patience with name-calling and such. Although one might be tempted to blame liberals for increasing taxes on electrics or call someone ignorant for not understanding the difference between state and federal responsibility for taxes imposed, we should endeavor to take the high road and keep the discussion about the issues, not the people.
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Look up the law and read the details. Missouri has a$75.00 EV tax, but the word motorcycle is not listed in the wording. So I took a copy to the license office and they looked it up to verify my copy. Then I was exempted from the tax. I also wrote the Department of Revenue about the overall fuel usage of motorcycles vs cars and was granted an exemption for future registrations.
My insurance company also jacked up the rates for my FX, so I shopped around for a different company and cut my rates by half.
It is a state's rights issue. No Fed involved here.
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Hi Ken. I'm in Missouri too and I've never been charged an EV tax. It's nice to know I might get an exemption if it ever happens. Thanks for the info.
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Just to jump off the topic for a moment, I am a moderator on a BMW forum and it has been many years since we have had anyone "flame" someone on the forum. If someone really wants to blow off steam about politics, religion, or some other potentially controversial topic, the forum has a sub-forum for just such topics. No limits, just blow your mind there. (You ought to see the thousands of vulgar, sexist and really bad jokes posted in that section.) But that leaves the rest of the forum discussing motorcycles and similar topics quite calmly. Now the only time I have to delete a post and ban a "person" is on Saturday afternoons when a "bot" from San Francisco starts posting trying to get people to click on a "Live Streaming" TV program or movie. They get banned and their post goes into the "Trash Can" sub-forum. ;D
Of course, the members of most BMW motorcycle forums do seem to have an average age of somewhere around 70. So that might have something to do with the lack of emotional and quick responses. Most of us are still trying to find the new ribbon for our typewriters. ::)
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Ok here we go again . . . .
Regretfully guys since the topic has to do with Tax it does reflect on a government decision.
Anyhow like all my other attacked topics - rather than discuss the unwarranted tax at hand a few of my admires have followed me here and turned it into a Political combat topic - nice job guys!
Also after a awful private message from Shadow with terrible F word profanity he had the nerve to complain about my title word of Asse so I changed it to Pants to make him feel better
What's wrong with this picture!
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1. No one said that the topic wasn't a "government decision." The point was that it was a state (Georgia) decision, not something controlled by the federal government.
2. The person who "turned it into a Political combat topic" was you. It’s now clear the Obama CAA “Pencil Heads†in Washington must have been using their vast clean air verses road tax intelligence to come up with this goofy math which forces us electric bike owners to pay gas tax for others driving electric cages.
Attributing the GA tax to the Obama administration was the first shot in the "Political combat" here. We all agree that the tax seems unfair in the bike vs. car context. Why go any further than that in your opening post?
3. If you are getting threatening messages or object to profanity in messages, please block the person and/or report them to the moderator.
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Hi Ken. I'm in Missouri too and I've never been charged an EV tax. It's nice to know I might get an exemption if it ever happens. Thanks for the info.
Look up the law and read the details. Missouri has a$75.00 EV tax, but the word motorcycle is not listed in the wording. So I took a copy to the license office and they looked it up to verify my copy. Then I was exempted from the tax. I also wrote the Department of Revenue about the overall fuel usage of motorcycles vs cars and was granted an exemption for future registrations.
My insurance company also jacked up the rates for my FX, so I shopped around for a different company and cut my rates by half.
It is a state's rights issue. No Fed involved here.
Hey guys...I had a very similar experience in Missouri myself....twice.
In 2014 when I bought my 2014 Zero S I went in to get it licensed at the DMV in STL and the woman working there was SOO confused. She started to do the paperwork and then asked me how many cc....I responded...zero....it's electric. To which she responded....oh....you don't need to get a license plate for electric bikes. I asked her if she was sure and she then asked if it could go more than 30mph on flat ground.....I responded....hell yeah it can. Her brain exploded. She asked me again what kind of bike it was and started searching for it on the internet and we then had a 15 minute conversation about electric motorcycles with her pulling several other DMV employees into the conversation all of whom were in total shock. Needless to say it was their first electric motorcycle at that DMV office.
So after all that wears off and she is done telling me how cool my bike is and how much she wishes she could get one she realizes that EV's are supposed to get charged the $75 fuel tax. At first I grumbled a little bit but was going to accept my fate....then she pulls out this huge sticker which is supposed to go in the windshield. So I ask....where am I supposed to put that thing?? There is nowhere on a motorcycle to put that thing....it's way to big to put on the license plate and I don't have a windshield. I'm obviously not going to put it on the tank or other part of the body so....??? She agreed so she starts to look at the law to see what it says about placement for 2 wheel vehicles and she can't find anything. As she is reading she starts to question if I should even be paying the tax so she tries to call the higher ups in the state capital with no luck in reaching anyone with answers.
She decides to let me go without paying for the sticker and tells me she is going to get in touch with the head guy and get a final answer and then will call me. The next day I had a message saying I didn't need the sticker since it didn't apply to motorcycles....only "passenger vehicles, buses and large vehicles". I went back in to the DMV and she finished filling out my paperwork and even wrote a note on it saying she had contacted the boss and I didn't need to pay the fuel tax.
That didn't stop the state from sending me a letter almost a year later saying that I needed to go in to pay the fuel tax or I would be assessed a fine. I ignored the letter. Then late last year I needed to go in to get my plates renewed and the guy tells me I need to pay the $75 fuel tax. After getting the letter the last time I was gonna just pay the tax and keep the sticker in the storage tank so I could produce it if I ever got stopped and got called on it but then decided to politely ask the guy where I was supposed to put it on my bike (I didn't even tell him the story from the previous time). He tries to look it up and when he can't find anything he asks his supervisor and right away she says "Oh yeah, it doesn't apply to motorcycles".
So there you go....twice the state tried to make me pay the extra $75 but I have gotten out of it both times. :) To be honest, I think it's reasonably priced but I object to paying it just out of principle....Missouri doesn't have incentives for buying electric....at the very least they shouldn't be adding extra fees for adopting the technology....or....as many others have stated....it should be much lower for a motorcycle.
MO charges based on the size of vehicle but all vehicles are just broken down into classes. They could just create a class for motorcycles and charge a lower fee (and make the sticker small enough to fit on license plate). Or they could charge based on the weight of the vehicle or the size of the battery. The only downside to using the size of the battery is that the battery for a small car like the 1st gen leaf is only a little over twice the size of a ZF13 but weighs much more than double and it's really vehicle weight that has the most impact on roads. For that reason....if they MUST charge a tax to EV's they should just do it by weight.
P.S. On a side note....I will be at Forest Park on Earth Day (April 22) with Flying Tiger as their Zero SME. Be sure to stop by and say hello :) I have been working on modifying my 2017 Zero SR and it will be there on display along with a 2017 Zero S and 2017 Zero DSR. Flying Tiger is also planning to bring a 2016 FXS assuming it hasn't sold by that time.
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Look up the law and read the details. Missouri has a$75.00 EV tax, but the word motorcycle is not listed in the wording. So I took a copy to the license office and they looked it up to verify my copy. Then I was exempted from the tax. I also wrote the Department of Revenue about the overall fuel usage of motorcycles vs cars and was granted an exemption for future registrations.
My insurance company also jacked up the rates for my FX, so I shopped around for a different company and cut my rates by half.
It is a state's rights issue. No Fed involved here.
Ken thanks for the reply I'll head down to the tag agency and see if there is an error however I'm not expecting anything since a lot of guys are getting billed as I am..
Regards
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Just to jump off the topic for a moment, I am a moderator on a BMW forum and it has been many years since we have had anyone "flame" someone on the forum. If someone really wants to blow off steam about politics, religion, or some other potentially controversial topic, the forum has a sub-forum for just such topics. No limits, just blow your mind there. (You ought to see the thousands of vulgar, sexist and really bad jokes posted in that section.) But that leaves the rest of the forum discussing motorcycles and similar topics quite calmly. Now the only time I have to delete a post and ban a "person" is on Saturday afternoons when a "bot" from San Francisco starts posting trying to get people to click on a "Live Streaming" TV program or movie. They get banned and their post goes into the "Trash Can" sub-forum. ;D
Of course, the members of most BMW motorcycle forums do seem to have an average age of somewhere around 70. So that might have something to do with the lack of emotional and quick responses. Most of us are still trying to find the new ribbon for our typewriters. ::)
Richard many thanks for your reply and your valid thoughts on Forum Administration.
Regretfully, this Zero forum differs from the BMW or in fact any other motorcycle forum on the Internet. On this forum, you are not entitled to voice any opinions that do not coincide with the thoughts or beliefs of a few seniors and a few administrators like Shadow.
Secondly and most important, you are not allowed to mention any beliefs or belong to any Republican party since it does not fit this Forums; Obama / Hilary “Tree Hugging†Agenda. While of course I’m just as interested in clean air and saving the planet as much as anyone, unlike a chosen few here, I have the ability to grasp the fact the Zero motorcycle is not the answer to saving our planet. We all don’t think alike and have different beliefs - remember its Public Forum and we all have the freedom and legal rights to express our feelings even thought they differ from others. Regretfully because of this save the earth agenda, the Zero Forum has lost its “Fun Factorâ€.
We all need to chill out and have fun, its just a motorcycle forum
Regards - Mike Mas
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I recently renewed my registration and I am happy to report that, under Obama's watch, I did not have to pay an "EV Tax". THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA!
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Coincidentally, this morning there was a five-minute discussion on my local "all news" radio about electric vehicle incentives being dropped or reduced by some states, including California. California sees giving new EV buyers, who can afford a vehicle like a Tesla (which appears to be what everyone seems to think of as a typical EV) a rebate as being not fair to lower-income EV buyers and is now basing state EV rebates based upon the purchaser's yearly income. While this change might not affect electric motorcycles (which apparently most legislators have likely never heard of) what "low income" family can afford to purchase a new EV? Low income people typically purchase a used Japanese econo-car and if they would buy an electric car, it would likely be a used one like a Leaf, which I believe would not qualify for the rebate. The changes to the CA rebate system seem a little goofy to me and smacks of an attempt at some sort of social engineering. ???
It would be great if the CA EV registration fee specified cars, with no mention of motorcycles, but I bet they use the catchall word "vehicles" so that they don't miss any electric device that moves and requires a license. :(
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Bottom line guys I think we're all in agreement that electric bike owners like car owners should have to pay their share of road tax, but that is not what's happening, I'm paying more tax ($200) on my little bike than almost any other electric car owner in the US.
In other words . . . Some rich Californian can drive his big ass heavy 5000 lb Tesla Cage around and pay nothing for gas tax because us redneck bike riders in Georgia and other states are going to pay for his road tax.
It’s an absolute Joke . . . Where government once provided financial incentives to people who drive ultra-fuel-efficient cars and bikes with no emissions to help preserve the air - will now penalize them for it.
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I'm paying more tax ($200) on my little bike than almost any other electric car owner in the US.
Thanks for being an "Out and Proud" republican and voting for those fine Georgia state officials that created the laws to help you pay your and all those Tesla owners fair share. Please have them send a portion of your fee to the California Department of Transportation as to improve the roads those Tesla's are driving on.
It was probably on "Faux" News that it was Obama's fault for not taking away the State of Georgia's right to impose new taxes on its citizens. They seem pretty "fair and balanced" as long as your only need to hear one side of the story and don't independently fact check anything.
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In other words . . . Some rich Californian can drive his big ass heavy 5000 lb Tesla Cage around and pay nothing for gas tax because us redneck bike riders in Georgia and other states are going to pay for his road tax.
You're onto us. Californians became upset because we're a donor state, paying more in Federal income tax than we get back, and decided to pass legislation in each state to directly collect local taxes and transfer them back to California. I don't understand why the local legislators in states like Georgia went along with this, but apparently they did.
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Bottom line guys I think we're all in agreement that electric bike owners like car owners should have to pay their share of road tax, but that is not what's happening, I'm paying more tax ($200) on my little bike than almost any other electric car owner in the US.
In other words . . . Some rich Californian can drive his big ass heavy 5000 lb Tesla Cage around and pay nothing for gas tax because us redneck bike riders in Georgia and other states are going to pay for his road tax.
It’s an absolute Joke . . . Where government once provided financial incentives to people who drive ultra-fuel-efficient cars and bikes with no emissions to help preserve the air - will now penalize them for it.
I fairly sure even rich Tesla owners in California pay sales tax which is ~36 years of EV Road taxes in Georgia.
The dirty secret about fuel taxes is that they are not enough to cover the cost of building and maintaining the roads. The average across the US is that fuel taxes and user fees only cover 1/2 of the cost of the roads, even in California. The Tax Foundation has put together all of this. https://taxfoundation.org/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/ (https://taxfoundation.org/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/) So that means that other taxes, like sales taxes pay for the road. So everyone pays even if you don't drive a car. I'm not saying that is right, but raising fuel taxes (and taxes on EVs) is not really popular.
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I'm not saying that is right, but raising fuel taxes (and taxes on EVs) is not really popular.
There are no popular taxes, though raising taxes on tobacco and alcohol never raises much of a fuss. Apparently we'd rather tax "sinners" for their "sinful" deeds than the rest of us innocent lambs. I've never been a smoker but I've paid more than my share of alcohol tax, I'm sure.
On the other hand, if we want public resources/facilities like roads, libraries, schools, fire and police departments, etc., somehow we've got to pay for them. I've never heard anybody squawk about how the streets are too smooth.
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Roads, libraries, schools, fire and police departments, etc. cost a of fraction of what we pay federal, state and local taxes on. Have to spend 60 billion of advanced planes and keeping troops in 144 countries, while bombing 7. Then there's billions more for social programs. Meanwhile, schools have an 80% pass rate and roads look like the roads in the half dozen countries we're bombing. :p
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This has to be a Forum First - Shadow this forums administrator went in without my permission and altered my Post to even include even removing my name to otherwise change my thread to his own personal ideas and agenda!
In my 30 years on Forums - I have never heard of an administrator going in a users post and changing or altering its content and language to reflect the administrators thoughts and believes. Other than deleting offensive post that violate Forum rules, which mine did not! no one has the right to edit a users content to conform with an administrators beliefs.
My apologies to the community, but these recent actions of editing my post have to be addressed. For months, every post I put up, to include those on safety issues, have been attacked by a select few on this forum and now it has elevated to administrators going in my threads and editing my thoughts!
Yes, the same administrator that sent me the terrible a profane gross email (on record) took illegal steps and changed my post. This confirms my recent reply in this same thread that certain seniors to include an administrator named “Shadow†(Eric) are illegally controlling the posts and thoughts of others to conform with their beliefs. Even my name was stripped off the title. I have for the past 25 years always tagged my name on my articles, it is the users right to title his works as he wishes.
If I happen to disappear from this forum, I will immediately submit a consumer complaint to the FTC. and numerous other agencies that regulate the Internet. I have also taken the liberty to record all my past and present posts & reply's to show they have been altered plus the vulgar emails from this forums administrator. Again, if I am banned to suppress my future thoughts, I will also post screen shots of my altered post and profane emails on numerous other Forums, Internet report sites and Facebook, in an effort to openly warn others of what goes on here and these illegal practices.
In conclusion - I only ask that administrators let users voice their own opinions and express themselves without user or administrator personal and political intervention. This is our legal right by law! Leave my post and thoughts alone, I don’t have conform to your ideals this is a “Public Forum†and we have legal rights to express ourselves. If this forum has any issues with my content, then send me an email without the insulting gross profanity that I have received in the past.
Mike Mas
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"self promotion, including your personal information in posts or titles of posts, and solicitations are also forbidden on this forum."
This is part of the registration agreement. I am going in to the post title and remove your name. If you attempt to change it again, you will be banned from the forum.