ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

Let the super charging begin!



OK, I still do need to install it first.............

Quick background: I bought my ZERO SR (2015) in 2018 with 4.000 km (aprox. 2500 miles) on it. It drove and looked like it just came out of the factory. I drove it for about 5.000 km (aprox 3.000 miles) with a lot of joy and happiness (hence my profile name).

Then I had this: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9811.0 , which ended with a replaced BMS, Charger and Battery...

When that was done I again had a great time with my electrified love and hoped I would not have to get myself annoyed by my Zero dealer soon again, and then...........

I took the bike for a spin on 12JAN2020 around 15:00 CET. I had not ridden it for a few weeks.
It was dry and the road was also completely dry. The outside temperature was around 7 degrees Celsius.
The bike was about 60% charged, I was driving in Eco mode.
      
The bike drove perfectly fine for the first 5 kilometers (~3 miles), I drove in the city, so I maxed at about 65 kilometers (~40 miles) per hour shortly but was doing 50  km/h (~30 miles) mostly. The engine temperature was somewhere in the 30-40 degrees Celsius (86-104 Fahrenheit) range. Suddenly while driving, the bike started to respond weird to the throttle. It felt like it had the hick-ups. It had a stuttering response to the throttle and it did not want to go faster than about 50 km/hour. (~30 miles/hour) This happened for about 30 seconds to a minute; I then found a safe spot to stop and switched of the bike.
      
When after a few minutes I switched on the bike again, the dashboard flashing routine worked as normal and the bike seemed ready to go, but there was no response at all from the throttle.
I tried a few things, like waiting a few minutes and switching the motor stop switch on and off, changing the drive mode from eco to sport and to custom, but nothing had any result.
      
I decided to walk back home. That was a stupid decision with hindsight, because pushing a bike for 5 kilometers (~3 miles) is hell.
When I arrived home, I plugged in the bike for it to charge and it did so without any problems. Then I had to get a shower and throw all my clothes into the washing machine, I was wet all over from pushing the bike...
      
The next day I checked the bike and it was fully charged. It still nicely “booted”, inclusive of the “click” from the contactor and it responded to the side stand being either in or out with the related warning. The headlight switched on, etc. It seemed to be ready to go as always, but again no throttle response at all.
      
I then consulted the manual and found the section on the error codes and then I changed the dash to show the error codes.   
Throughout the “boot” process (from turning the key to “on” to the bike being “ready”), it showed the following error codes (in that sequence): 25, 57, 48, 49.
They would however not be present anymore when finishing the boot sequence. The bike seemed perfectly fine and ready to go, but it did not want to....      

Finally I connected the bike to my phone and started the app through which I got the error log that I then sent to Zero.

I thought they were super fast and had brilliant customer service, because when I later checked my email I already received an answer from Zero with the confirmation of the receipt of the log and a request for more information about what happened, what the weather was at that moment, etc.
Later I realized that this is just an automated response to anyone who sends them a log file.........

Because of my poor experience with the Zero dealer (from that I believed they do not have a clue about these bikes), I decided to read through this forum from a to z and try everything I could try to figure out what was the problem or to maybe even solve it myself. So I did the following:

1. Tried to install the software that can translate the logs into something that one can actually read. Took me forever and then I gave up. And then as a gift from above I stumbled on this website: https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/zero-log-parser.html BRILLIANT.
2. Tried to figure out from the logs that I could now read what was the problem. I could see what the dealer should have seen with regards to my previous problem, could see several errors, but did not find anything specific in the logs around the time the problem happened.
3. Reset the BMS (soft reset, hard reset), did it again and again and again...
4. Unplugged the main "computer" (MBB) left the bike for 10 minutes and plugged it in again
5. Checked ALL fuses that I could find in the bike
6. Unplugged all plugs that I could one by one (for some I still do not understand how to get them unplugged), tried the bike, plugged in again
7. Unplugged the charger from the bike
8. Removed the rubber flap from the controller and checked all connections
9. Unplugged the canbus from the controller, waited 10 minutes, plugged it in again
10. Had a mental breakdown
11. Called Zero and got someone on the phone who was really nice, understanding and helpful. He checked the logs and concluded that it was most probably a problem with the engine; NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! not again a major part to be replaced!!!! It was, according to him probably related to the sensor in the engine that helps to have the controller understand in what position the rotor is so that it can fire the right phases to get the engine turning........ He advised me to bring the bike to the dealer.....................
I elaborated on my previous experience with my Zero dealer and asked him for advice. He was very understanding, but still advised me to go to the same dealer (close by) and let them work with Zero to figure out exactly what was wrong with the bike.
12. Called the dealer and they came to pick it up same day because luckily it was still winter and hence they were not super busy.   
THE NEXT DAY THE ZERO DEALER CALLED AND INFORMED ME THAT THE BIKE WAS FIXED AND THAT I COULD COME AND COLLECT IT!!!!!!!!!
It was only the throttle that was the problem. They replaced it directly and all was done............ I was flabbergasted and extremely happy.

The entire  still did cost me 400 euro ($440) for the throttle (200),  collecting the bike from my house (85) and labor costs (115) inc. VAT, but I was sooooo happy that the engine did not have to be replaced.

My faith in the dealer has more or less returned with this great action from them, however.... when I checked the logs a day later, I did see that there is also an update for the bike........ the dealer should have installed that one while the bike was there........... One cannot have it all........

Because I learn a lot from others reading this forum I decided to free up some time to also contribute by sharing my (horror) story with my beloved 2015 SR. This is part one, problem one. Next problems I will elaborate about in separate posts.

Quick background: I bought my ZERO SR (2015) in 2018 with 4.000 km (aprox. 2500 miles) on it. It drove and looked like it just came out of the factory. I drove it for about 5.000 km (aprox 3.000 miles) with a lot of joy and happiness (hence my profile name).

After sitting in the garage for about two and a half months (winter), I took the bike out for a ride. When I returned home it was at about 15% SOC, I plugged it in and it started charging. Next day I went for another ride, unplugged the bike and started riding it. I took a look at the dash; only 30% SOC!!! It had been charging all night....  . Maybe the power plug was not inserted properly I thought, so I just went on.
After a few kilometers I started to worry anyhow and decided to stop at a charging station. Plugged in the bike and.............. nothing.......  .
I decided to be smart for one time in my life and cancel my trip and return home. I plugged in the bike at home and again,...nothing, no charging. Tried a different power cord, fiddled around with some other things, but no charging.

It is a 2015 bike, so no warranty anymore on anything but the battery.

I decided to call the local ZERO dealer.
Dealer: "Oh it is a 2015 SR? Then the charger will be the problem".
That did sound logical, because I had already read on this forum about the problems with the stock charger.
The dealer asked me to drop of the bike (I am so happy that I was wise to cancel my previous trip because I now had enough juice left to drive to the dealer).
The dealer said that they would contract ZERO to see if the charger could be replaced free or charge (only labor costs) because this being a known problem. Lucky me, that was indeed the case. Unlucky me, it took 4 weeks!!! for the charger to arrive from the US (at least that is what the dealer informed me about).

When the new charger finally arrived, the dealer installed it and..... the bike still would not charge. They called me and claimed the following:
"We replaced the charger and connected it in such a manner that it seems like we broke the BMS. We were not aware that this method of connecting it is wrong. We have ordered a new BMS from ZERO US"......

Because I had 4 weeks in between delivering the bike to the dealer and their above message, I had investigated a bit how the charger looks like, what connections it has and how to replace it (brilliant video from ZERO vlogger NEW ZEROLAND on that subject). That lead me to believe that the story from the dealer was a bit shaky.

In my mind it is impossible to connect the charger wrongly given that there are really only two connections to be made; 1 to the CAN outlet (data) and 1 to the Anderson plug (power (to the battery)) (the power-in part is not a connection, it just needs to be attached to the frame). Given that the CAN plug and the Anderson plug can only be inserted one way (like a USB A plug), how can they connect it "wrongly" in a way that they "could not have known"?
The only thing I can think of that they could have done wrong is reversing the pins in the Anderson plug (+ and - reversed). This is possible, because the Anderson plug needs to be taken apart when installing the charger. The Anderson plug cannot be moved from the bottom of the frame where the charger is through the frame were the other Anderson plug is (not enough space). The pins and the plastic "cover" of the Anderson plug have to be taken apart, such that the wires and the pins can be maneuvered through the frame and remarried with the plastic outside of the Anderson plug after that.

Anyone any other thoughts?

Anyhow, I had to wait another 2.5 weeks for the new BMS to arrive and to be installed on the bike. When that was done, the dealer called me:
"We installed the new BMS and still the bike will not charge. We have no clue what to do next. Are you OK for us to send the bike to ZERO Europe's head office for them to take a look? (and you pay us for doing that...)".
My head: "No of course not, I want to bike back now and have it sit in my garage with an empty battery so that I can take a look at is sitting there being useless... "
My mouth: "I agree that if you cannot fix the problem that this is the only option; please go ahead and do so".

Another 2 weeks passed by with no sign of life from the dealer or ZERO Europe, so I went to the dealer to take pulse.
Dealer: "Ah, yes that red ZERO, yes.... it is still at ZERO, they are putting it together now, they have replaced the battery........., we expect it back by the end of this week".

The week thereafter, no sign of life from the dealer nor ZERO, nor the bike (it did not "phone home" to tell me it was fine...  ).
I called the dealer.
Dealer:  "No it has not been returned yet, it is still with ZERO Europe".

My patience which is rather low in general and had ran out completely by this time, so  I decided to call ZERO Europe myself.

ZERO Europe: "The bike is fine, what a pretty one it still is, it looks like it is still brand new. We shipped it back to the dealer last week....."
Me: "Are you sure, the dealer claims it is still with you"
ZERO Europe: "100%"
Me: "What was wrong with the bike"
ZERO Europe: "Difficult to explain, but it was a feedback loop problem we could have fixed it in a dirty manner, bypassing some stuff, but we decided to do it the nice way and replace the battery instead".

So I called the dealer.

Me: "I just called ZERO, they claim that the bike back is with you since last week already".
Dealer: "Huh......., let me check again. Ohhhhwww, yes indeed it is here and has been since last week indeed...... Please come and pick it up"

Me: EXPLODING of anger, trying to hold myself together and to not drag the dealer through the phone line and kill him.

I went to pick-up the bike.
The dealer takes it out of the shop to the showroom and asks me: "Did you deliver the bike without (rearview) mirrors?"
Me: boiling inside, ready to set the entire dealership on fire. "What do you think yourself? Do you ride your bike without mirrors?"
Dealer: "Ehhhh no, not really no.... ehhhh.... ehhhhhh, I do not know what to say, they must still be at ZERO Europe........ I understand that after all of this I cannot let you go without mirrors, let me get some new ones and put them on the bike now....... Please be careful with them so that we can sell them later. We shall not go through the bill/invoice now, we will do that when you come and collect your mirrors (once we have received them from ZERO Europe)".

I drive home with a working bike and "different" mirrors. Plug it in and indeed it charges. Check the battery and see that after all these weeks and shit, there is one benefit; it is a 13KWH battery, the pervious one was 12.5, that is another few kilometer/miles of range at least.

Next day the dealer calls me: "Ehhhhhhhhh, the mirrors are here, they have been here all the time, we just overlooked them. Can you please come and get them installed....".

A few days later I go to the dealer to get the mirrors changed. Then the dealer presents me the invoice and I understand why they did not want to discuss that at the moment of having misplaced my mirrors; it is close to 600 euro (660 USD, 515 GBP, 1044 NZD) in labor costs.
I do not accept.
Dealer: "But you have a new charger and a new BMS now".
Me: "That is very nice, but these were not broken in the first place, so that does not really help me".
Dealer: "But you have a higher capacity battery now".
Me: "That is only from 12.5 to 13KWH, that does not make a real difference".
Dealer: "But we have spend all this time one the bike".
Me: "Fixing things that were not broken in the first place".

We haggle a bit more and I manage to get a better price for the labor and reduce the total on the invoice.

End of story.




Months later I finally figured out how to get the bike's logs parsed (I cannot get the phyton parser to work but have now found this fantastic website instead: https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/zero-log-parser.html).
This is what the log includes in the period in which this all happened:
01483     05/13/2019 13:51:48   ERROR: Module loopback lost.   
 01484     05/13/2019 13:51:48   Shutting Down due to loss of loopback.   

I guess that the dealer must have been able to see this as well before deciding to just replace the charger. I would have also expect them to test the charger before declaring it "dead".
Any thoughts?

After this "adventure" I rode the bike with happiness again for another 1.000 kilometers (approximately 620 miles) and then..... see my next post, next problem.