ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: GaryArt1 on June 02, 2019, 02:57:52 AM
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So I hear a lot of complaints about the SR/F. It is delayed, no/wrong information from dealers, no charging cables, lower range, no L3 charging. I will be the first one to admit, some of these complaints actually came from me. This weekend I was thinking about it (rather than riding it like expected) and I came upon a thought. These complaints have one significant difference than most of the other complaints you hear about zeros. See the other complaints are from people who paid hard earned money for their bikes and now there is something wrong that is frustrating them. The key difference is that we haven't even bought our bikes yet. WE can always just go get our money back and move on. So I thought of this mathematical formula we can use.
When the negatives of the SR/F > our desire to own it = you walk away and buy another bike.
This is the best message one can send to a company. You talk with your hard earned money rather than complaining to a group of people who own Zeros on this forum and others. Once I thought of this I quickly realized that my desire for the SR/F is still greater than my frustration with waiting. I decided I mine as well just be patient and not frustrate myself. Saved me a lot of money on counselling. Now one day, if the shipping delay keeps up, the other side of the equation may become greater and I will move on to another bike. Until then I will wait patiently for the day I actually own the SR/F and then I can complain about all the things wrong with my $20K bike.
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I was ready to pre-order before the press release back in February..
Then I decided i wanted to see what Lightning had to bring.
Then I decided i wanted to get my car sold before doing anything. (that is moving really slowly)
Then delays arrived all around me, so i changed again..
This time i decided i wanted to demo it before doing anything.. Hoping i would have had my car sold before that happened.
Still not able to demo it (not available as demo in .no)
Due to the last few weeks changes in form of delays and other issues arising, i'm even less sure as to how to progress..
Looks like i will be waiting throughout the summer this year before deciding..
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I think hesitation is a good thing. It means that the brain works properly. I would certainly demo it before purchase. Good luck!
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So if they only make X amount of bikes and they sell them all, then I don’t think ‘walking away with your hard earned money’ is a tactic that will matter. Someone else will buy the bike. They will still sell out. Zero would have to be left with inventory for them to feel any pain.
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GaryArt1, Paul Scott on FB said he got his bike and loves it. So that's a good sign and maybe you won't have wait much longer.
Valnar I also find it strange/interesting that they aren't making any more FXS 2019 models. It could be true that building SRFs are taking all their staff and I'm sure it has a higher profit margin. It may also be that there is a new different model to replace the FX(S) bikes that they will start to build and test soon.
If you truly have your heart set on an FXS and know it's the best bike for you then check around and find the best/closest deal on one and have it shipped. I would also still recommend looking at the used and demo market for very nice savings.
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I feel Gary's frustration. Zero have made a hash of marketing the SRF. They teased it back in February, which was fine, but they just aren't getting them into customers' hands quickly enough. We all know the dirty tricks that marketing departments like to play... Tease the product, keep people hanging, etc, etc... We're bored with that shit. Better marketing would be just to launch the bikes and tell everyone that they can demo the bike tomorrow and buy one at the same time, if they wish. Delivered the next day! Why is that so difficult? It stops pissing people off.
I gave an SRF a good spanking today and I'll tell you this: I rode it for about 20 minutes and the SoC dropped by 50%. It couldn't manage its claimed top speed because the motor overheated. 105 was the best I could get out of it.
Those are the negatives, which pail into insignificance compared to the positives. I put my deposit down last Friday before a test ride, but I was having second thoughts by this Thursday after a couple of test rides. Not so after getting an opportunity to give it the beans today though! The bike is genuinely fast. Probably not as fast as my CB1000R, but still very fast. What's most important, to me, is that it is fast without making a big deal about it. I'm fed up of screaming engines trying too hard. The one thing Zero's marketing department got right was the slogan 'Effortless Power.' That, remarkably for a marketing department, isn't bullshit.
I love that effortless power. The SRF has more than enough of it for the road. Don't think it's quick enough? Go and get some advanced motorcycle training from people who know how to ride a bike fast. You'll probably smoke most sportsbike riders with the SRF if you know what you're doing.
Don't take my word for it though, just go and get your leg over one and you'll see what I'm talking about. It's a lot of fun. It's smooth, refined and quiet. The ride quality is better than my CB1000R on our bumpy British roads (the likes of Spain and Greece got lots of EU subsidies and loans to do their roads up which the UK helped payfor).
My Honda handles better, but only in a way that's important on a racetrack. My Honda produces more power, which I can't safely use on the road. My Honda will go further on a tank of fuel which can be refilled in five minutes. Can't argue with that... The cost of petrol is insignificant compared to the cost of depreciation on a bike. But all that gets wiped away by the pure joy of riding an EV.
Gary, be patient. All good things come to those who wait. I only have to wait another two weeks for mine and I'm in the UK. You'll get yours soon enough mate. [emoji4]
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My guess is that the early introduction and distribution of the SR/F has a lot to do with undercutting LiveWire and Lightning sales. I bet if those two companies hadn't made a big deal out of their new models being sold this summer, the SR/F would have been marketed later in the year, after Zero had more of its SR/F ducks lined up. ;)
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Their marketing did EXACTLY what it was supposed to do. They built excitement and expectation. The fact that people aren't getting their bikes "soon enough" means that demand exceeded expectation, and when you're the owner of a company that is EXACTLY what you want. It means you're selling your inventory faster than you can produce it which (from a company stand point) is FAR FAR better than building bikes that sit in a warehouse.
As for me, I've learned my lesson... I NEVER buy a first-year production model. I've been burned enough in the past. Even a good warranty doesn't cover the lost time while the issue is being corrected.
Besides, I may WANT an SR/F, but that is not exactly the same thing as NEEDING an SR/F. I would've loved to have purchased an SR instead of my S, but that rational part of my brain said "Why?? Why pay $3,000 more, and have nearly TWICE the insurance payments for no increase in range?" What difference is a 100+ mph top speed when the average highway speed around me is 70? Too many people get wrapped up in "Spec Sheet comparisons" without even thinking what 80 lbs/feet of torque is like in a 400 lbs bike.
Sure, my S will get beaten in a drag race by an SR, or an SRF, or any of the Energica bikes. SO WHAT?? I am quite comfortable with the size of my penis to not require any compensation. The "S" does everything I need it to do, and that is just fine with me. YMMV, of course.
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I am quite comfortable with the size of my penis to not require any compensation.
I knew it! The R model owners are compensating!
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My guess is that the early introduction and distribution of the SR/F has a lot to do with undercutting LiveWire and Lightning sales. I bet if those two companies hadn't made a big deal out of their new models being sold this summer, the SR/F would have been marketed later in the year, after Zero had more of its SR/F ducks lined up. ;)
I suspect this to be the case as well.
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Sure, my S will get beaten in a drag race by an SR, or an SRF, or any of the Energica bikes. SO WHAT?? I am quite comfortable with the size of my penis to not require any compensation. The "S" does everything I need it to do, and that is just fine with me. YMMV, of course.
I love my SR but wish for more of the same just because it's fun. It's not something I need, or can't live without, but then again, neither are motorcycles themselves.
And I wonder if you're protesting too much. Sometimes a motorcycle is just a motorcycle.
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I pre ordered in early March. Long story short is that it just ended up coming down to dealer proximity.
But I was still waiting to see what Lightning announced thinking if it was just absolutely insane i could always just walk away from my deposit on the SR/F.
But the lightning announcement came and went. No release event, no pictures of a bike in the real world. No videos - nothing. So I kept my SR/F pre order.
And while I'm insanely anxious to get mine, especially after riding the demo... I can't say anything bad about how they've handled the release and deliveries.
I custom ordered a truck that wasn't even a new style, and it took 4 months to get it. No communication from the manufacturer. And the dealer didn't even remember they'd sold me a truck. Guy i bought it from quit, they called me 2 months into my order and tried to sell me another truck. After we got that all worked out I didn't hear anything else until the truck showed up and then wanted me to come get it.
The little care package Zero sent was such a nice touch. And my Zero dealer has been awesome during the process.
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I'm frustrated with Zero's communication but I'm definitely waiting for the bike I preordered. I did get the test ride. It was breathtaking. Worth the wait.
I just wish they wouldn't leave us hanging.
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I'm frustrated with Zero's communication but I'm definitely waiting for the bike I preordered. I did get the test ride. It was breathtaking. Worth the wait.
I just wish they wouldn't leave us hanging.
IMO, it's better to wait until they get the bugs out anyway.
I have yet to hear of ANY new model of any motorcycle that has major changes to not have a few serious bugs to work out.
The SR/F that I tried to ride here in Reno is a good example of some major bugs.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I'm frustrated with Zero's communication but I'm definitely waiting for the bike I preordered. I did get the test ride. It was breathtaking. Worth the wait.
I just wish they wouldn't leave us hanging.
I'm curious, what could they do to make things right at this point? A website posting? Email update?
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I'm frustrated with Zero's communication but I'm definitely waiting for the bike I preordered. I did get the test ride. It was breathtaking. Worth the wait.
I just wish they wouldn't leave us hanging.
I'm curious, what could they do to make things right at this point? A website posting? Email update?
It seems to me that Zero should put out a press release explaining why deliveries are being delayed. I am sure there are good reasons for doing so (such as overwhelming orders or last-minute bugs that need fixing), they just need to let their customers and future customers know what is going on. Letting everyone hang out and twist in the wind while they speculate on the internet regarding what is happening, without any useful information, just isn't very helpful in my view. :( Kind of reminds me how government agencies function. ::)
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At least give their dealers something official to tell customers and if they have customer contact information they should have emailed them already.
For me, I am just going to skip the SR/F this year and probably going forward. If they cannot do the simple things like common courtesy communications why would I trust them to be there when I need them. Well that and if the 6kWh charging really is just 2x3kWh then what is the point of that setup?
Nice looking motorcycle but....
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and if the 6kWh charging really is just 2x3kWh then what is the point of that setup?
Why is that an issue? It's still 6 KWs. Why care how they get up to the six KW?
-Don- Reno, NV
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and if the 6kWh charging really is just 2x3kWh then what is the point of that setup?
Why is that an issue? It's still 6 KWs. Why care how they get up to the six KW?
-Don- Reno, NV
He is probably referring to the different phases that the chargers use. Eg you could have a 230V charging station that can do 32 amps on one phase, which is over 7kw but your zero can only use the 3 kw from the first charger. Not sure about the US but where i live most stations can deliver at least 11 or 22kw (3 phase, 400V).
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He is probably referring to the different phases that the chargers use. Eg you could have a 230V charging station that can do 32 amps on one phase, which is over 7kw but your zero can only use the 3 kw from the first charger. Not sure about the US but where i live most stations can deliver at least 11 or 22kw (3 phase, 400V).
You must live in Europe somewhere.
BTW, have you heard of some type of external Zero quick-charger that is several thousand watts? I saw a link to it somewhere, but I am now not sure where. Perhaps requires 3-phase 240 VAC for max output. Whatever it is, it's not available here in the USA.
BTW, is your normal house current there 3-phase? Here it's all single phase.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Sure, my S will get beaten in a drag race by an SR, or an SRF, or any of the Energica bikes. SO WHAT?? I am quite comfortable with the size of my penis to not require any compensation. The "S" does everything I need it to do, and that is just fine with me. YMMV, of course.
I love my SR but wish for more of the same just because it's fun. It's not something I need, or can't live without, but then again, neither are motorcycles themselves.
And I wonder if you're protesting too much. Sometimes a motorcycle is just a motorcycle.
An S is more than adequate to get around on, but I'm all for more of the fun factor myself. Dial it up to 11, I say! [emoji4]
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and if the 6kWh charging really is just 2x3kWh then what is the point of that setup?
Why is that an issue? It's still 6 KWs. Why care how they get up to the six KW?
-Don- Reno, NV
He is probably referring to the different phases that the chargers use. Eg you could have a 230V charging station that can do 32 amps on one phase, which is over 7kw but your zero can only use the 3 kw from the first charger. Not sure about the US but where i live most stations can deliver at least 11 or 22kw (3 phase, 400V).
Correct. Here in the UK most of the charging posts are 7kW single phase units. It's frustrating that the SRF will only charge at 3kW from a 7kW post. There are potential ways to fix this using a custom cable that splits the pin from phase one to the pins for phase 1 and 2, but that's a hassle to sort out and unconfirmed as yet.
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He is probably referring to the different phases that the chargers use. Eg you could have a 230V charging station that can do 32 amps on one phase, which is over 7kw but your zero can only use the 3 kw from the first charger. Not sure about the US but where i live most stations can deliver at least 11 or 22kw (3 phase, 400V).
You must live in Europe somewhere.
BTW, have you heard of some type of external Zero quick-charger that is several thousand watts? I saw a link to it somewhere, but I am now not sure where. Perhaps requires 3-phase 240 VAC for max output. Whatever it is, it's not available here in the USA.
BTW, is your normal house current there 3-phase? Here it's all single phase.
-Don- Reno, NV
Yes, I live in germany. Normal outlets only have 1 phase 230V but most houses have a 3 phase cable coming in the junction box. Haven't heard of that quick-charger, but you could get a CSS outlet or any type of outlet/wallbox that runs 3 phases from the junction box, normal outlets usually deliver only 10 Amps (16 max) @230V. I have 3x50A in the basement (which you can upgrade) so you could easily install a wall charger with 11 or 22kw - if my landlord let me :(
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I have 3x50A in the basement (which you can upgrade) so you could easily install a wall charger with 11 or 22kw
This is not quite correct.. if you were to convert that 230v/3phased/50A input to a 22 kW charger circuit, disregarding transformerloss, you'd need 55,43A/phase..
So, for 11 kW, yes.. but again, due to how the chargers are set up on the bike, this is in no way a good solution as the transformer to convert it is expensive and you'd still only utilize 2 of those 3 phases unless you get the premium model as well as the additional chargetank option.
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I have 3x50A in the basement (which you can upgrade) so you could easily install a wall charger with 11 or 22kw
This is not quite correct.. if you were to convert that 230v/3phased/50A input to a 22 kW charger circuit, disregarding transformerloss, you'd need 55,43A/phase..
So, for 11 kW, yes.. but again, due to how the chargers are set up on the bike, this is in no way a good solution as the transformer to convert it is expensive and you'd still only utilize 2 of those 3 phases unless you get the premium model as well as the additional chargetank option.
That is why i said you can easily upgrade the fuse which you usually do when installing a wallbox since you also need permission from your electricity company. Ofc the 22kw would be stupid for a zero but not for most electric cars so if you plan on getting one soon rather get a 22kw wallbox for a few bucks more and be good for the next years. And i disagree about the price, i can get a 11kw wallbox with fuse, transformer, mennekes cable and rfid card for 500€, which is cheaper than the stupid 2-3kw charging cable that zero wants to sell you for the eu bikes.
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Considering a 230V to 400V transformer cost several thousand € everywhere else, i would very much like to see a link to that package..
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I wonder if 2 chargers is Zero's way of admitting that they are using an inferior charger.
This way, if one fails, you can still charge with the 2nd
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Considering a 230V to 400V transformer cost several thousand € everywhere else, i would very much like to see a link to that package..
There you go (german link), 11kw with 3 phase 400v:
https://shop.easy.e-regio.de/article-details/ArticleId/45?gclid=CNLJw8q21eICFZDndwodgXQK9Qeurope
The 400v is between the phases, each phase only is 230v compared to ground. I'm not an electrician, search for "400V Drehstrom" if you want to understand.
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Well.. i AM an electrician, and that link is just for the charging station..
(one that can ONLY be installed on a 400V system)
So.. it would still need the transformer in addition..
Also.. That site doesn't carry transformers..
Just to make sure we're in sync in regards to technical terms...
Looking at the supply system in the mains cabinet in your house, does the main fuse have 2, 3 or 4 breakers connected through the same switch?
Example 2 phase:
https://www.hager.de/ecatimages/detail/CDA240D.jpg
Example 4 phase:
https://www.hager.de/ecatimages/detail/CPA440D.jpg
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Back to SRF complaints.
I thought I saw someone on the ZMOG group this morning saying their new SRF wouldn't go into Rain mode or wouldn't come out of Rain mode, something like that.
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Well.. i AM an electrician, and that link is just for the charging station..
(one that can ONLY be installed on a 400V system)
So.. it would still need the transformer in addition..
Also.. That site doesn't carry transformers..
Just to make sure we're in sync in regards to technical terms...
Looking at the supply system in the mains cabinet in your house, does the main fuse have 2, 3 or 4 breakers connected through the same switch?
Example 2 phase:
https://www.hager.de/ecatimages/detail/CDA240D.jpg
Example 4 phase:
https://www.hager.de/ecatimages/detail/CPA440D.jpg
Here's a picture from what i can see, don't really understand what you mean exactly, I'm not an expert.
But since i already had an electrician here that made me an offer i know that i don't need any additional transformer etc., just some cables and a fi-protection switch plus higher fuses depending on my wallbox.
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@ermagherd That's a 400V system.. If it's secured with 50A you would indeed be able to use a 22kW charger. (as that is 32A at max)
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@ermagherd That's a 400V system.. If it's secured with 50A you would indeed be able to use a 22kW charger. (as that is 32A at max)
Thanks for clearing that up, pretty much every house has those in the basement in germany.
Let's get back to topic: SR/F complaints
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Let's get back to topic: SR/F complaints
I sat on one yesterday. I find the bike rather uncomfortable. Foot pegs too far back--can they be adjusted more forward?
At first, I was thinking I was on the passenger footpegs by mistake--but I wasn't.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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There's been an interesting little development in my world since my last post on this topic...
On Tuesday morning I took my Honda in for its 8,000 mile service. Before jumping on the courtesy bike to head into London, I reckon I had about an hour to spare. So I walked round to the bike showroom and asked to take the Fireblade SP out for a spin. Any idea where this is going yet?
I was absolutely blown away by that bike. It soaks up the bumps on our terrible British roads like a sports tourer. The engine is so smooth and refined that it could almost be a gas turbine. It's quiet around town, which is what I love about Zeros, but has a real bark when you open it up. The handling is sublime, the quick shifter and blipper work even better than on my CB1000R. It accelerates like a rocket ship. The breaks are just the nuts, and so on...
I returned to the dealership on Wednesday morning to pick up my bike and I placed an order for the SP. £17,000 versus £18,500 for the SRF. They are both £20k bikes. The UK government contributes £1,500 by way of a subsidy. Honda contribute £3,000 by way of discounts so they can clear their stock in preparation for next year's model. In fact Honda UK are sold out already and I was just very lucky that my dealer still had one in their showroom.
Insurance seems to be cheaper than for the SRF. My best quote is £728 and I have a lot of companies to choose from.
So basically I'm getting a much better bike for less money and a lot less hassle and inconvenience. Or the same money with over 10,000 miles of fuel thrown in.
I'll keep my 2014DS for cheap miles when it finally gets back on the road. It must be a month now since the charger failed and as usual I'm suffering the usual mixture of dealership incompetence and poor service from Zero. I still don't have a concrete date as to when the new chargers will be shipped from the European distribution centre. They were ordered about two weeks ago. That's with a competent dealer involved. I gave up on my local dealer when they didn't even manage to contact Zero in the two weeks since I reported the issue to them. I had to go via the UK manager to get anywhere...
It probably goes without saying that the Fireblade will give me a lot more freedom than the Zero. The thought of having to stop for 90 minutes to charge every 60 miles on the motorway just put me right off. I'll be able to go proper distances on the Fireblade and much quicker than on the SRF.
I'm sorry to say that, as usual with EVs, it has come down to cost and range as the main complaints for the SRF. It's a lovely bike and I really, really wanted one. I just happened to find another one that I like even more!
The good news is that demand for the SRF is high here in the UK. My SRF order was quickly handed down to the next person on the list.
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I'm surprised to hear folks say they don't like the seating position. I got a chance to sit on one recently and it felt very standard/upright to me, and rather comfortable.
My only complaint is that mine isn't in my garage yet. :)
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I'm surprised to hear folks say they don't like the seating position. I got a chance to sit on one recently and it felt very standard/upright to me, and rather comfortable.
My only complaint is that mine isn't in my garage yet. :)
I haven't seen one in person yet, but just by looking at pictures, it appears foot pegs are placed higher and farther back compared to my dsr. If that's the case, than I can see it being uncomfortable for me as it puts more weight on handlebars.
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The seating position of the SRF was one the reasons I ordered the DSR instead.
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I'm surprised to hear folks say they don't like the seating position. I got a chance to sit on one recently and it felt very standard/upright to me, and rather comfortable.My only complaint is that mine isn't in my garage yet. :)
Motorcycles are not "one size fits all." I am kinda long legged. But comfort on an electric motorcycle is not all that important, IMO, as we usually cannot go hundreds of miles at a time with out a nice long rest stop to recharge.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I'm surprised to hear folks say they don't like the seating position. I got a chance to sit on one recently and it felt very standard/upright to me, and rather comfortable.My only complaint is that mine isn't in my garage yet. :)
Motorcycles are not "one size fits all." I am kinda long legged. But comfort on an electric motorcycle is not all that important, IMO, as we usually cannot go hundreds of miles at a time with out a nice long rest stop to recharge.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I guess what I meant is it just didn't feel that different from my zero S. I'd read some impressions that had me braced for a bigger difference.
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Well Bonkers I guess I'm not really surprised.
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There's been an interesting little development in my world since my last post on this topic...
I can understand your motivation. Nearly all ICE-Bikes offer more bang for the buck than the Zeros do, especially in the 20k price range. But that is no key argument for fans of electric propulsion. The best electric overall package is what I am interested in. Easy Scooter-like commuting in traffic and beeing able to extend the way home to a fast spin with the same bike is the appealing feature for me.
For me a valid SR/F-complain could be serious quality issues and lack of support/parts in a couple of years, like it seems to be with the early Zero models.
BTW - does anybody have news about the delivery progress? Real quiet the last days..
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No word on delivery status from my dealer but they at least followed up with Zero regarding my request for the taller seat at build time. Although they have part numbers and pricing for the different seats, one...Zero won’t build the bike with non-standard parts at this time and two... the taller seat is like the other announced accessories, unavailable until later this year.
Sounds to me like it’s all they can handle to build the SR/F’s in their stock configurations right now.
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So I started this post with the promise to myself I will be patient waiting for my SR/F and not complain. So this is not a complaint but instead some thoughts in my head.
I am a little shocked and disappointed that this week this board didn’t light up with people getting deliveries or at least notices of shipments for their SR/Fs. I can see this as one of three things:
1. Zero delivered a lot of them but it just happens none of the people who got it are members of this board or the Facebook group-very unlikely
2. Zero delivered a lot of them but everyone who got it is so busy enjoying riding it they have no time to post- too optimistic
3. Zero delivered ONE bike so far- very sad
The reason I am surprised is a bunch of us got a nice card 2 weeks ago saying our bike was starting production. Now I am no expert on bike assembly but you would think if they started it when they sent the card, our bikes should be finished now unless:
1. They have the slowest assembly line on the face of the earth
2. They found some big issue that they have to fix before they ship the bikes. I say big issue because it would be ludicrous holding all the bikes back because of a gap in the tank storage or a software bug that can be updated OTA as soon as it arrives at the dealer.
3. Some other secret god forsaken reason that Zero has chose not to share with the dealers or customers.
I am most concerned with the second one where there is a major issue. I put a deposit on this bike immediately knowing that it is a first year model and there may be small issues. I took Zero’s word (or its marketing department’s word) this bike has been put through torture testing and figured they ironed out all the issues before it went into production. This delay and lack of information has me a little uncomfortable that this may not be the case. The problem with lack of information is that your mind naturally starts drifting to worse case scenarios.
So at this point I know no more than last week, my dealer knows nothing and another week has past. Here’s hoping things will get brighter next week.
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But comfort on an electric motorcycle is not all that important
Yeah, you're not going to be on it that long before you have to get off to charge :) At least, that's how it is with my FX. Ran it from 100% to 0% in 42 miles yesterday.
I think I'm just too old and fat to really enjoy the sport bike ergonomics any more. I was ready to get off the SRF in 30 minutes, where I'm fine doing 400+ miles a day on my VFR1200X. In fact, I'm leaving for a 1200+ mile trip on it in the morning :)
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So I started this post with the promise to myself I will be patient waiting for my SR/F and not complain.
I'm seeing some movement on the FB ZMOG. A couple delivered by Hollywood Electrics, someone complaining they can't get theirs into Rain Mode, DonTom (I think) said one was available to sell at his local dealer. Seems like they starting to trickle out. Maybe the dam is about to burst and soon everyone will be basking in the glory of their SRF's :)
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Possible shipping logistics considerations as well. Cheaper to ship 4 of them to the north east than one at a time. Before, a new model year would hit the dealers in December or January and people had to wait to thaw out to ride. This summer release makes people feel time is slipping by.
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Possible shipping logistics considerations as well. Cheaper to ship 4 of them to the north east than one at a time. Before, a new model year would hit the dealers in December or January and people had to wait to thaw out to ride. This summer release makes people feel time is slipping by.
I guess that is part of the problem. If is was during the winter, it would be nice to get the new bike but it would just be sitting in my garage with me sitting on it going Vrooom Vromm. No wait it is electric, I can’t even make a sound. But now every day I look outside and the sun is shining I know it is riding season. It is killing me knowing it is another day I want to be riding my new bike but can’t. When it was first announced I thought Wow Zero has great timing coming out with a bike right at the beginning of riding season (unlike Harley coming out with it in August). Well I guess they missed that boat.
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DonTom (I think) said one was available to sell at his local dealer.
Yep, but the sales guy told me that there was already several people interested in it. Good chance they sold it by now. But both of their SR/F's were the standard 3 KW versions (one they must keep as a demo).
That is Oak Grove Power Sports, south of Sacramento, CA.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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DonTom (I think) said one was available to sell at his local dealer.
Yep, but the sales guy told me that there was already several people interested in it. Good chance they sold it by now. But both of their SR/F's were the standard 3 KW versions (one they must keep as a demo).
That is Oak Grove Power Sports, south of Sacramento, CA.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I don’t get this. I thought the order was supposed to go Demos, Customers Pre-orders and then dealer stock. It would be a bummer if someone walked in off the street to buy a bike in the dealer showroom while people who pre-ordered 3 months ago are still waiting. Unless this was a customer preorder who backed out and the dealer doesn’t have any other preorders so it is his to sell to anyone.
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I don’t get this. I thought the order was supposed to go Demos, Customers Pre-orders and then dealer stock. It would be a bummer if someone walked in off the street to buy a bike in the dealer showroom while people who pre-ordered 3 months ago are still waiting. Unless this was a customer preorder who backed out and the dealer doesn’t have any other preorders so it is his to sell to anyone.
I was surprised also, but I don't know how they got two of them. I did not ask. Besides that, I did NOT see them both. I was told the other was in the back, by the salesman. They only have the one on display, but I have no reason to believe I was being BSed. But he did mention they were both identical, same color, (red) both standard, etc. but may only sell one until they get another.
The one I saw in Reno was the Premium, 6 KW charger. The only one they have there but it has bugs. I assume it has corrupted software, by the strange behavior. I get the felling that one will not be repaired soon as they do not have the stuff to deal with such yet.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I am concerned that there is a lot of incorrect information on this forum thread.
We just called EuroCycle Reno. They told us there is nothing wrong with their Zero SR/F.
The dealer in Sacramento is called Elk Grove Power Sports. Our internal systems show we have only shipped them one Zero SR/F. If there was another, I suspect it was one of our regional sales manager's demonstrators for a demo event. Perhaps the person was confused by this.
Zero Motorcycles is shipping demonstrators first. Then, pre-solds. I don't believe any dealer has received a stocking unit. There is MUCH work still to do to fulfill the pre-solds, and that is the current focus. I encourage anyone in the United States that has an order in place to follow up directly with Jeff J. on the Zero Sales Concierge team. He has the most accurate and current information.
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I am concerned that there is a lot of incorrect information on this forum thread.
We just called EuroCycle Reno. They told us there is nothing wrong with their Zero SR/F.
The dealer in Sacramento is called Elk Grove Power Sports. Our internal systems show we have only shipped them one Zero SR/F. If there was another, I suspect it was one of our regional sales manager's demonstrators for a demo event. Perhaps the person was confused by this.
Zero Motorcycles is shipping demonstrators first. Then, pre-solds. I don't believe any dealer has received a stocking unit. There is MUCH work still to do to fulfill the pre-solds, and that is the current focus. I encourage anyone in the United States that has an order in place to follow up directly with Jeff J. on the Zero Sales Concierge team. He has the most accurate and current information.
Thank you for this reply. It's what we needed.
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I am concerned that there is a lot of incorrect information on this forum thread.
We just called EuroCycle Reno. They told us there is nothing wrong with their Zero SR/F.
Did they say what was wrong with it?
When the key was turned on, the horn would stay stuck on. Then when the key was turned off and on again, the horn would NOT sound at all, not even when the horn button was pressed. Because of this, they would not let me ride it and they took the bike into their shop. They already had my driver's license copied and all else was ready to go until I discovered the horn was not working at all.
BTW, Shadow (moderator of this forum) was there with me as we were trying to figure it out. There are several witnesses to the facts I am claiming here, including two salesmen. I doubt the bike could be so user unfriendly that none of us could figure out to honk the horn or turn off the heated grips and a few other issues such as with the menu that would not change from the main screen.
I had NONE of these issues with the SR/F when I played with the menus at Elk Grove Power Sports.
I returned a week later to Eurocycles to try get a firmware update on my Zero DS, the SR/F was still in the shop. They did NOT have the firmware for my update so that was a wasted trip for two of us. And I did have an appointment from the week before. They also cannot do the motor commissioning. But they said they expect to have it all soon, so perhaps by now they do have such.
As for Elk Grove PowerSports, I can only tell you what I was told by the Salesguy. I did NOT see the other SR/F, but he did claim one other was for sale that was in the shop area.
I know from experience that often salespeople claim things that are not always true, but often unintentional. But the issue at Eurocycles in Reno had several witnesses.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I am concerned that there is a lot of incorrect information on this forum thread.
We just called EuroCycle Reno. They told us there is nothing wrong with their Zero SR/F.
...
BTW, Shadow (moderator of this forum) was there with me as we were trying to figure it out. There are several witnesses to the facts I am claiming here, including two salesmen. I doubt the bike could be so user unfriendly that none of us could figure out to honk the horn or turn off the heated grips and a few other issues such as with the menu that would not change from the main screen.
...
I know from experience that often salespeople claim things that are not always true, but often unintentional. But the issue at Eurocycles in Reno had several witnesses.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Curious.
And I did email Jeff Jolin at 8:00AM (California time). No reply.
I also am growing "concerned that there is a lot of incorrect information..."
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I encourage anyone in the United States that has an order in place to follow up directly with Jeff J. on the Zero Sales Concierge team. He has the most accurate and current information.
If he does, he is keeping that information to himself. I emailed Jeff several days ago, and also have not received a response.
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We just called EuroCycle Reno. They told us there is nothing wrong with their Zero SR/F.
https://youtu.be/DQ9VICaQzrU
...1m16s ::)
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(snip video of SR/F horn freaking out)
...1m16s ::)
Yep, that is the bike right there that Don is talking about. Despite the horn sounding at power up the horn button does not activate the horn. Not much of a demonstrator when it fails the safety inspection and there is no shop technician with ability to service Zero Motorcycles bikes ;D
The sales people were able to show me how to open the forward storage compartment using the lock cylinder at the left outer side of the compartment. Beyond this, I left my first experience seeing an SR/F markedly more confused than I had been never having seen it in person. There was literally no tangible information about the bike right down to if it was for sale or not.
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Thanks for demonstrating the horn problem. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Notice how the horn sounded as the key was turned on, and they had to shut it off. At first, we thought it could have been some type of an alarm, until we noticed the horn did not work after a quick shout off and on. With a delay of several seconds, the horn would sound again as soon as the key was turned on again. So the choice was no horn or a horn that was sounding full time.
What was the date of that? Hopefully not after they claimed nothing was wrong.
And I see you're from Germany. Who took that video in Reno?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I just saw this video while surfing the net collecting new Info about the Bike - I have no relation to the one who took it ;)
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The video is actually an ad. It is posted on Eurocyles's YouTube channel - (https://www.youtube.com/user/FreedomCycleNV/videos[/url)
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They might want to take that ad down :)
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Maybe it was in Pike's Peak mode since they require a sound warning for EVs. ;)
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I'm betting there was an issue with the horn and its since been fixed. That way you're both right. Solving some teething problems as they occur. The SRF uses a completely different powertrain and cypher III os, until dealers get some hands on time, they'll have to lean on Zero. None of the other dmo riders reported horn issues, so it hardly seems systemic.
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I'm betting there was an issue with the horn and its since been fixed. That way you're both right. Solving some teething problems as they occur. The SRF uses a completely different powertrain and cypher III os, until dealers get some hands on time, they'll have to lean on Zero. None of the other dmo riders reported horn issues, so it hardly seems systemic.
I will be surprised of they even looked at it yet, but when I am back in Reno in less than a week from now, I will check with them.
But I agree that it is not systemic. I had no strange issues when I played around with the SR/F at Elk Grove Power Sports. Besides, I expect there to be some bugs in any new model that has countless changes from all other previous models made, regardless of make. And that includes ICE as well as electric vehicles.
The safe way is to wait around three years after a new model is made before buying, or else expect to have some warranty issues, recalls, TSB's and etc.
IMO, the only real reliable test is when there are a few thousand on the road for a few years.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I am concerned that there is a lot of incorrect information on this forum thread.
We just called EuroCycle Reno. They told us there is nothing wrong with their Zero SR/F.
...
BTW, Shadow (moderator of this forum) was there with me as we were trying to figure it out. There are several witnesses to the facts I am claiming here, including two salesmen. I doubt the bike could be so user unfriendly that none of us could figure out to honk the horn or turn off the heated grips and a few other issues such as with the menu that would not change from the main screen.
...
I know from experience that often salespeople claim things that are not always true, but often unintentional. But the issue at Eurocycles in Reno had several witnesses.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Curious.
And I did email Jeff Jolin at 8:00AM (California time). No reply.
I also am growing "concerned that there is a lot of incorrect information..."
I did hear back from Jeff. I'm in group B, July. I had missed their email. It went to an old address. Not sure If I gave it to them or my dealer did. Either way we're on track now.
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I’m picking up my SRF on Saturday! Will keep everyone posted:)
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I’m picking up my SRF on Saturday! Will keep everyone posted:)
Congrats. Good for you! I know it got a little shakey for you for a while with the order but I am glad to see it worked out. Enjoy and report how it is for us still waiting.
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I’m picking up my SRF on Saturday! Will keep everyone posted:)
Sounds like you might be the first owner on the forum. Please take it out for a long ride and give us your thoughts.
I'm especially interested to hear what real world range is per full charge.
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I’m picking up my SRF on Saturday! Will keep everyone posted:)
Congratulations! I am admittedly very jealous! ;)
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Is this still considered a dealer demo, or actually a pre-order allocation?
I know you said at one point the dealer was selling you their demo.
I’m picking up my SRF on Saturday! Will keep everyone posted:)
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It’s their demo I am pretty sure. I spoke to Jeff at Zero and he told me that was the case. I didn’t have an allocation, but I ordered on 3/6. I’m not sure how it ended up being a demo instead of a pre-sale...it was the dealer’s choice apparently and since I am getting it earlier than expected (sort of) I don’t mind:)
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Any update on the tank lid gap? I sincerely hope that it is just a pre-production issue that will be resolved on the final product. That extreme of a "panel gap" is unacceptable on a budget bike, let alone one that cost $20k!
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I'm betting there was an issue with the horn and its since been fixed.
You lose the bet!
I just came back from Euro-Cycles here in Reno. The same SR/F is now on the showroom floor, so at first, I assumed it was fixed. But that's not the case at all. It still has the exact same problem. The bike was simply moved from the shop area to the store front. The horn still blows continuously a few seconds after the key is first turned on but if turned on for a 2nd time within a few seconds, then no horn at all, not even when the horn button is pressed. And both of these things were checked by me TODAY (around two hours ago) in the shop, with TW (A sales guy who I know there).
And here is the big news about that shop:
Every mechanic (and I mean every one of them) QUIT at or very near the same time!!! They now have NO mechanics at all, their service department is closed. And I don't mean because it's Saturday, it's closed every day until they find new mechanics. So now they have nobody there to work on Zeros or any other brand. I was told this by TW today, but I also heard it a few days ago from a buddy and today, I confirmed it's true.
I have no idea why they all quit at the same time. I don't think I can get an honest answer for why this happened, and so I can only guess. But I did ask and they said it was all for "personal reasons" whatever that could mean. I didn't push it from there.
A real bummer!!! I would like this (rather large) shop to survive. But for now, they cannot service anything at all.
Looks like it will be a while before I get my Zero firmware updates done here in Reno.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I'm betting there was an issue with the horn and its since been fixed.
You lose the bet!
I just came back from Euro-Cycles here in Reno. The same SR/F is now on the showroom floor, so at first, I assumed it was fixed. But that's not the case at all. It still has the exact same problem. The bike was simply moved from the shop area to the store front. The horn still blows continuously a few seconds after the key is first turned on but if turned on for a 2nd time within a few seconds, then no horn at all, not even when the horn button is pressed. And both of these things were checked by me TODAY (around two hours ago) in the shop, with TW (A sales guy who I know there).
And here is the big news about that shop:
Every mechanic (and I mean every one of them) QUIT at or very near the same time!!! They now have NO mechanics at all, their service department is closed. And I don't mean because it's Saturday, it's closed every day until they find new mechanics. So now they have nobody there to work on Zeros or any other brand. I was told this by TW today, but I also heard it a few days ago from a buddy and today, I confirmed it's true.
I have no idea why they all quit at the same time. I don't think I can get an honest answer for why this happened, and so I can only guess. But I did ask and they said it was all for "personal reasons" whatever that could mean. I didn't push it from there.
A real bummer!!! I would like this (rather large) shop to survive. But for now, they cannot service anything at all.
Looks like it will be a while before I get my Zero firmware updates done here in Reno.
-Don- Reno, NV
Years ago Marin BMW went through the same issue - and closed shortly afterward. In that case I heard that it had to do with the owner's cash flow. He just bit off more than he could chew (and he also may have had some personal fiance problems). When BMW motorcycle sales took a dip, he then took on the Vectrix electric scooter franchise. After that it was all downhill from there. :( In a strange coincidence, the company that my daughter worked for leased the empty building and she worked out of the old showroom area until the company was bought out by a bigger fish. She now works remotely from home for the same firm as their complaint department.
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Years ago Marin BMW went through the same issue - and closed shortly afterward. In that case I heard that it had to do with the owner's cash flow. He just bit off more than he could chew (and he also may have had some personal fiance problems). When BMW motorcycle sales took a dip, he then took on the Vectrix electric scooter franchise. After that it was all downhill from there.
That was the feeling I had, that this shop is too large with too many brands, too many bikes. Perhaps the shop has way too many expenses. It could be going broke, but I really do not know the facts, I am only guessing. But that there is some type of trouble there is quite obvious.
Do you remember that large Yamaha shop in the mid 1980's that was on El Camino Real in San Bruno? I also wonder what happened to it. Many large shops don't last long, for whatever reason.
I have been in Marin BMW many years ago. I didn't know they were having trouble.
I was in Sierra BMW today (Sparks, NV). I asked about the BMW C Evolution electric scooter. I was told NO BMW shops are allowed to touch it in the entire state of Nevada. At least not for the time being.
I was also in the Harley shop here in Reno today. Here they WILL sell the LiveWire. They will have the charge station, both for Level Three DC for the Livewire as well as have a J-1772 that anybody can use. But there are already many J-1772 stations in Reno and Sparks that are free to anybody--mostly Chargepoint. Today, I got recharged at the Tamarack Junction Casino as we was having lunch in their restaurant. Charging both my e-bikes at once. I was with a buddy (George, a retired motorcycle cop) who was riding my SR--trying to get him interested in Zero bikes. He really likes my SR. We have been riding my two Zeros for most of the day. We both could buy the SR/F Premium after they have the power tank and other things available for it, which will be several months away.
I was told the Harley shop in Carson City will have neither the Livewire nor a charge station.
But it seems Zero is having trouble with dealers just about everywhere outside of CA from what I have been hearing. Here in Reno, that is the norm.
If I do buy the SR/F in a few months (as if I really need ten motorcycles) it will be from Elk Grove Power Sports there in CA. Have you been there? I have ridden my SR there and back from Auburn. There are many places to recharge close to the halfway point.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Since you mentioned it, Don, I bought my 1986 Honda VFR700FII and my daughter's first bike, a 1987 Yamaha SRX250, from that shop in San Bruno, CA. The two owners of that business used to own the only motorcycle shop in Pacifica and moved their business to San Bruno. Eventually they lost interest in selling motorcycles and voluntary closed the business to go into selling home appliances. The building then became a lighting fixture store. BTW, up the street used to be a Harley shop during the late 1970's. But it was closed when its owners were arrested for money laundering for the Hell's Angeles. So shops can close for all kinds of reasons.
I have seen so many motorcycle shops come and go over the past 57 years that I have lost track of many of them, unless I am reminded of a particular one. Getting back to electric motorcycles: I bought my first two electric motorcycles, Electric Motorsport GPR-S models, from the Electric Green Store in San Carlos, about 100 yards from the Best Buy store. The shop was owned by two nice fellows, who tried selling small electric cars, bicycles and motorcycles. But they had problems with slow sales and constant warranty problems. When Best Buy started selling the Brammo Enertia, they folded. Too bad. Photo attached of their shop, next to a sandwich emporium.
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Any update on the tank lid gap? I sincerely hope that it is just a pre-production issue that will be resolved on the final product. That extreme of a "panel gap" is unacceptable on a budget bike, let alone one that cost $20k!
Sorry to bump this, and I know it may seem like a small matter, but are we really ok with this? If we just ignore this defect then Zero will not be compelled to fix it.
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It will be interesting to see what causes that crack and if it can be corrected by the owner, perhaps by modifying the attachment hardware. ???
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The gap I think comes from the foam gasket under the lid. Perhaps it will flatten out with use. My SRF has it, but if you push on it it closes.
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I just posted in the other thread that I read from a reliable source on the facebook page that Zero is working on a fix for this and rather than holding shipments up, will have dealers install once parts are in. I’m guessing either a new gasket or revised lock.
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I’m guessing either a new gasket or revised lock.
The gap is on the hinge side rather than the latch side. I have not yet tried to peek inside the hinge mechanism, but if there were a mod to reduce the panel gap, I would think it would be the hinge mount.
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We just called EuroCycle Reno. They told us there is nothing wrong with their Zero SR/F.
There has been nothing wrong with it for around the last two weeks. The last over- the- air firmware update totally fixed all its problems.
So I took a test ride on it. I was impressed by its performance, but the bike doesn't fit me.
Seat and foot pegs not adjustable, and too much of a sporty riding position.
Seat and foot pegs not adjustable and pegs are up way too high for my long legs.
-Don- Reno, NV
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If they do a DSR/F or something similar with more commutable seating, I'll get really interested.
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If they do a DSR/F or something similar with more commutable seating, I'll get really interested.
I assume Zero will start making other models based off the SR/F. They did most of that bike right, except for the comfort issues.
I expect they will have some interesting models after they catch up with the SR/F orders. Perhaps next will be the DS/F. Perhaps Zero will become a much larger company. I assume all the SR/F orders are already giving the company a much needed boost in sales.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I thought the pegs were going to be too high for me too, but I got used to them after a day or so. The seat height is great for me. I do agree that the forward lean can be hard on the shoulders and hands, but using my legs to brace against the tank corrects that pressure on my hands. I saw they sell tank grippy stickers for the other models. I think a nice sharkskin panel on the tank would make it very easy to keep pressure off the shoulders and hands at low speeds. At higher speeds, the wind takes the pressure off.
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I thought the pegs were going to be too high for me too, but I got used to them after a day or so. The seat height is great for me. I do agree that the forward lean can be hard on the shoulders and hands, but using my legs to brace against the tank corrects that pressure on my hands. I saw they sell tank grippy stickers for the other models. I think a nice sharkskin panel on the tank would make it very easy to keep pressure off the shoulders and hands at low speeds. At higher speeds, the wind takes the pressure off.
I was the same way. I thought I would have the most problem with the high pegs being I am 5’-11†but it felt fine once I got used to it. This is for a guy coming from a cruiser with foot boards. Kind of like going from a lazy boy to a stool. What did bother me a little was the numb wrists from the handle bars. I just watched a youtube video on it that talked about adjusting your riding position to help alleviate it. I have to try that. Otherwise I have some risers coming in that should help being i think I only need it to come up a little to be more comfortable.
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If they do a DSR/F or something similar with more commutable seating, I'll get really interested.
I assume Zero will start making other models based off the SR/F. They did most of that bike right, except for the comfort issues.
I expect they will have some interesting models after they catch up with the SR/F orders. Perhaps next will be the DS/F. Perhaps Zero will become a much larger company. I assume all the SR/F orders are already giving the company a much needed boost in sales.
-Don- Reno, NV
My thought continues to be that if Zero ever gets around to selling over 10K bikes a year, they will get gobbled up by a larger fish looking for a quick way into the electric motorcycle market. ;) My money would be on Suzuki (maybe Yamaha?) as they don't seem to be doing much (or anything?) with EV concepts and if the market takes off then the quick way to get into it would be buying in instead of developing a platform from scratch. ???
Both Honda and Kawasaki have their own EV programs moving along and the Europeans seem to on the bandwagon, although Triumph might need help. Needless to say, we won't mention Polaris, after what they did with their Brammo purchase. ::)
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My thought continues to be that if Zero ever gets around to selling over 10K bikes a year, they will get gobbled up by a larger fish looking for a quick way into the electric motorcycle market. ;) My money would be on Suzuki (maybe Yamaha?) as they don't seem to be doing much (or anything?) with EV concepts and if the market takes off then the quick way to get into it would be buying in instead of developing a platform from scratch. ???
I think that will be okay with me, perhaps will improve service. OTOH, service is not all that great on the BMW electric, none are sold or serviced in the entire state of NV, I was told my the shop in Sparks, NV.
But as long as the oil companies do not buy out Zero, I will be happy. ;D
-Don- New Castle, CA (at the Denny's)
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Like most everything, Zero being acquired by one of the big players would bring good and bad things.
They will gain from the logistics infrastructure of the bigger company (among other things) but would suffer the red tape characteristic of such companies, possibly stifling new ideas and the ability to design and test new products in a timely manner.
Being they are backed by venture capital, I would not be surprised of a sudden change of control if the investors see the right numbers in an offer.
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I thought I read somewhere that they have fended off being purchased a few times already.
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I thought I read somewhere that they have fended off being purchased a few times already.
I can't recall reading that before. If that is the case, I wonder why? Probably because the investors feel that the price was too low and the brand still has a bright future. :)
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I recall that Zero seemed pretty offended when HD bought Alta Motors instead of them. Didn't work out too well for Alta, but I sure didn't get the impression Zero didn't want to be bought by a big player -- quite the opposite impression, in fact. Unless things have changed, I think they're definitely available for the right price.
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I recall that Zero seemed pretty offended when HD bought Alta Motors instead of them. Didn't work out too well for Alta, but I sure didn't get the impression Zero didn't want to be bought by a big player -- quite the opposite impression, in fact. Unless things have changed, I think they're definitely available for the right price.
Well, everything is available for the right price. ;)
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I recall that Zero seemed pretty offended when HD bought Alta Motors instead of them. Didn't work out too well for Alta, but I sure didn't get the impression Zero didn't want to be bought by a big player -- quite the opposite impression, in fact. Unless things have changed, I think they're definitely available for the right price.
Didn't BRP buy Alta, not Harley?
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I recall that Zero seemed pretty offended when HD bought Alta Motors instead of them. Didn't work out too well for Alta, but I sure didn't get the impression Zero didn't want to be bought by a big player -- quite the opposite impression, in fact. Unless things have changed, I think they're definitely available for the right price.
Didn't BRP buy Alta, not Harley?
H-D didn't buy Alta, but they did invest in it. However a few months later they withdrew their funding which meant that the factory ran out of money and had to shut down. I believe some other company (BRP?) bought their remaining assets. ???
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Alta didn't have anything worth buying. Neither does Zero unless you want to take over the brand. Conventional manufacturers are just waiting until the batteries are cheap and high capacity and then in all likelihood Zero is going to get fucking wiped out since their business is clearly not well led.
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I hope Zero turns around their management. I'd like them to build on that brand name. I have no idea what havoc an established company would do to them. That being said, if it had to be somebody, please let be one of the big Japanese four. Their QC and attention to reliability would be an asset.