ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Richard230 on September 26, 2018, 04:37:20 AM
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I just updated my bike's BMS from version No. 31 to No. 34 on my 2018 Zero. The process took about 30 minutes and at the end of that time period, my phone said that the update had "timed out", that the firmware update had failed and to try updating again. When I turned the bike back on, it said that my firmware was up to date and no new firmware updates were available. And so it goes. ::)
If I notice anything strange when I ride my bike again I will let you know. ;)
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I just updated my bike's BMS from version No. 31 to No. 34 on my 2018 Zero. The process took about 30 minutes and at the end of that time period, my phone said that the update had "timed out", that the firmware update had failed and to try updating again. When I turned the bike back on, it said that my firmware was up to date and no new firmware updates were available. And so it goes. ::)
If I notice anything strange when I ride my bike again I will let you know. ;)
Particularly, after having done this update if you can ride your bike from a fully charged state to until it shuts off (I know - inconvenient as hell to ride 70+ miles into roadside rescue situation) then what is the behavior noticed in rides following after this event where the bike mystery firmware could have the opportunity to know the full measured capacity? Using Anton's app Zero Voltage does the perceived Ah vary much between fully charged sessions and partially charged sessions?
Although if you just enjoy your bike I won't blame you very much :-)
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I just updated my bike's BMS from version No. 31 to No. 34 on my 2018 Zero. The process took about 30 minutes and at the end of that time period, my phone said that the update had "timed out", that the firmware update had failed and to try updating again. When I turned the bike back on, it said that my firmware was up to date and no new firmware updates were available. And so it goes. ::)
If I notice anything strange when I ride my bike again I will let you know. ;)
Particularly, after having done this update if you can ride your bike from a fully charged state to until it shuts off (I know - inconvenient as hell to ride 70+ miles into roadside rescue situation) then what is the behavior noticed in rides following after this event where the bike mystery firmware could have the opportunity to know the full measured capacity? Using Anton's app Zero Voltage does the perceived Ah vary much between fully charged sessions and partially charged sessions?
Although if you just enjoy your bike I won't blame you very much :-)
While that would be an interesting experiment, it would require me to be riding anywhere from 100 to 160 miles and I just have too many other things to do right now. However, I will take my bike out today for a ride to the local Orchard Supply Hardware store to see if they still have any house paint left to buy. If any strange thing happens during that ride and when recharging I will let you know. It look like fall weather is coming next week and I need to get some painting done before the temperature drops and it starts to rain. At least I got my roof rain gutters cleaned out yesterday.
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So today I gave my new BMS firmware an easy workout. I rode 20 miles, used 15% of the battery pack, 10 miles were at 60-65 mph and another 10 miles were around 35 mph. Apparently, the new firmware has made the range estimator very optimistic. I started off with an estimated range of 203 miles. After riding up and down two hills, it was reading 206 miles at the bottom of the last hill. After riding on the freeway for 10 miles, including going up another hill, the estimated range said 155 miles. By the time I returned home with 85% showing on the display, the range was estimated at 145 miles. I have seen this sort of optimism before after a new firmware download and it usually becomes more pessimistic after a while. ;)
Just for fun, I hooked up my Kill-A-Watt meter and used 2.55 kWh to bring the pack back up to 100%. That would appear to amount to 17.0 kWh at the wall to fully charge a depleted battery pack, if my calculations are correct. If the charger is 93% efficient, that would result in a battery capacity of 15.8 kWh, which sounds about right for Zero's 16.6 kWh "nominal" claim for my 13.0 + PT Zero S.
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To add another data point, I had the identical experience as described in the first post. Everything seems fine with my bike though I haven't exercised the range estimation yet.
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Richard, I had a similar experience with the last flash I had on my 2016 Zero. It will "learn" as you ride, but the fastest way to do it is to run it down completely on a ride. That will force its estimated range to more accurately reflect reality. Then as you ride normally it will get more and more accurate.
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Richard, I had a similar experience with the last flash I had on my 2016 Zero. It will "learn" as you ride, but the fastest way to do it is to run it down completely on a ride. That will force its estimated range to more accurately reflect reality. Then as you ride normally it will get more and more accurate.
I am sure that you are right. But that takes a lot of faith that I won't be stranded somewhere without an electric outlet available. I have a 140-150 mile route that takes me up into the Santa Cruz Mountains, down to Santa Cruz and back up the coast highway, but if I run out of juice there is nowhere to recharge along the route, other than at a gas station and the last time I tried that I was told to take a hike. >:(
I could take a less scenic route and just ride along El Camino Real, pass dozens of strip malls, auto dealers and condos, but I just don't have the temperament for that. So I am waiting for some day with perfect weather and when I have nothing to do all day long, to go for a really long ride. In the meantime I will have to make do with shorter rides and an optimistic range estimator. ;)
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I just had my cellphone and the number for Roadside Assistance if it came to that. I just headed out on the highway until I had about 51% of a charge left, then turned around and headed back. Got back to the garage with 1% remaining. After that, the estimated range after a charge was much more realistic.
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I just had my cellphone and the number for Roadside Assistance if it came to that. I just headed out on the highway until I had about 51% of a charge left, then turned around and headed back. Got back to the garage with 1% remaining. After that, the estimated range after a charge was much more realistic.
Most of the places that I ride to have fun and to relax have no cell phone coverage. :(
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Does anyone know if it has to be run down completely on a single ride for this to work? It seems like running it down to zero over a few days would be just as effective.
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Does anyone know if it has to be run down completely on a single ride for this to work? It seems like running it down to zero over a few days would be just as effective.
Maybe, but I'm impatient. Takes far less time to run it down on a quick highway blast than anything else.
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I just updated my bike's BMS from version No. 31 to No. 34 on my 2018 Zero. The process took about 30 minutes and at the end of that time period, my phone said that the update had "timed out", that the firmware update had failed and to try updating again. When I turned the bike back on, it said that my firmware was up to date and no new firmware updates were available. And so it goes. ::)
If I notice anything strange when I ride my bike again I will let you know. ;)
I think I updated my firmware and I didn't even realize it. But I still am not sure.
Here is what happened.
I asked it to update and it said "searching for updates" and just stayed in that state. I have my cell phone thingy left on the bike seat, well within range of my internet wireless, on for more than an hour. When I came back it was still "searching". So I gave up and tuned it all off.
Today, I tried the exact same thing again. Now it instantly says "No new firmware updates have been found for you motorcycle."
So did it update or not? Is there a version number of the firmware that is loaded into the bike somewhere that I can view?
This was on my 2017 DS ZF 6.5.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I'm just ignoring the firmware update invitations. I'll drop it off at the deal once a year or two and let them deal with it.
What am I missing out on?
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I just updated my bike's BMS from version No. 31 to No. 34 on my 2018 Zero. The process took about 30 minutes and at the end of that time period, my phone said that the update had "timed out", that the firmware update had failed and to try updating again. When I turned the bike back on, it said that my firmware was up to date and no new firmware updates were available. And so it goes. ::)
If I notice anything strange when I ride my bike again I will let you know. ;)
I think I updated my firmware and I didn't even realize it. But I still am not sure.
Here is what happened.
I asked it to update and it said "searching for updates" and just stayed in that state. I have my cell phone thingy left on the bike seat, well within range of my internet wireless, on for more than an hour. When I came back it was still "searching". So I gave up and tuned it all off.
Today, I tried the exact same thing again. Now it instantly says "No new firmware updates have been found for you motorcycle."
So did it update or not? Is there a version number of the firmware that is loaded into the bike somewhere that I can view?
This was on my 2017 DS ZF 6.5.
-Don- Reno, NV
I don't know about the 2017 models, but if your screen says that it can find no new updates, I guess it did update. ??? One way to tell is that the firmware update that I got was for the BMS and when I turned it on for the first time it showed a much greater range estimate than it had before. I am sure that there is someway to check your firmware updates via the Zero app, but I just can't recall how it is done. Perhaps someone else can advise us how to check them. I might add that when the firmware is updating, it causes the instrument display to flash all of its symbols in rapid succession.
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JamieC convinced me that I should run my battery down to 0% today and that is what I did. See my new thread.
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I don't know about the 2017 models, but if your screen says that it can find no new updates, I guess it did update. ??? One way to tell is that the firmware update that I got was for the BMS and when I turned it on for the first time it showed a much greater range estimate than it had before. I am sure that there is someway to check your firmware updates via the Zero app, but I just can't recall how it is done. Perhaps someone else can advise us how to check them. I might add that when the firmware is updating, it causes the instrument display to flash all of its symbols in rapid succession.
I saw Shadow here in Reno tonight and he figured it out with a few updates to my phone. It never did update the bike. It now says:
"NEW FIRMWARE UPDATE
Motorcycle firmware is out of date. Please see your dealer as soon as possible.
Main Bike Board
Current Version:12
New Version:26
This version requires an update from your dealer."
Shadow explained AFTER this dealer update is done, then I can update from the cell phone. Only this first firmware update needs to be done at the dealer.
This is WRT my 2017 Zero DS ZF 6.5.
I will check my 2017 Zero SR when I get to Auburn in about a week.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I don't know about the 2017 models, but if your screen says that it can find no new updates, I guess it did update. ??? One way to tell is that the firmware update that I got was for the BMS and when I turned it on for the first time it showed a much greater range estimate than it had before. I am sure that there is someway to check your firmware updates via the Zero app, but I just can't recall how it is done. Perhaps someone else can advise us how to check them. I might add that when the firmware is updating, it causes the instrument display to flash all of its symbols in rapid succession.
I saw Shadow here in Reno tonight and he figured it out with a few updates to my phone. It never did update the bike. It now says:
"NEW FIRMWARE UPDATE
Motorcycle firmware is out of date. Please see your dealer as soon as possible.
Main Bike Board
Current Version:12
New Version:26
This version requires an update from your dealer."
Shadow explained AFTER this dealer update is done, then I can update from the cell phone. Only this first firmware update needs to be done at the dealer.
This is WRT my 2017 Zero DS ZF 6.5.
I will check my 2017 Zero SR when I get to Auburn in about a week.
-Don- Reno, NV
Not exactly something that Zero goes out of its way to tell its customers, unfortunately. ::) Good luck with your dealer-installed update and I hope it works to get you updating at home without a visit to your dealer.
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Not exactly something that Zero goes out of its way to tell its customers, unfortunately. ::) Good luck with your dealer-installed update and I hope it works to get you updating at home without a visit to your dealer.
I will have to wait at least a month for Euro-Cycles to start doing Zeros here in Reno. Mine will probably be the first Zero they do, so my bike will probably be the guinea pig. Or perhaps Shadow's bike. We also both need our commissioning done. I have 5,100 miles on my bike and nothing has been done to it via the dealer since new, but it still runs perfectly.
I wonder what the new firmware will do. I really don't see anything that needs improvement.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Not exactly something that Zero goes out of its way to tell its customers, unfortunately. ::) Good luck with your dealer-installed update and I hope it works to get you updating at home without a visit to your dealer.
I will have to wait at least a month for Euro-Cycles to start doing Zeros here in Reno. Mine will probably be the first Zero they do, so my bike will probably be the guinea pig. Or perhaps Shadow's bike. We also both need our commissioning done. I have 5,100 miles on my bike and nothing has been done to it via the dealer since new, but it still runs perfectly.
I wonder what the new firmware will do. I really don't see anything that needs improvement.
-Don- Reno, NV
The only thing I have really noticed with all of my firmware updates is that they start off showing a very high estimated range and they seem to wipe out the computer's memory regarding how many kWh have been used, the distance traveled in the past, how many watts per hour you average and maybe a few other things. It is almost as if you just picked up your new bike from the dealer, except for total mileage ridden as shown on the instrument display.
One thing that caught me off guard is that the Zero app showed that I used only 11.8 kWh during my trip yesterday. It should have said about 14 kWh used. I have a suspicion that the MBB is using a calculation designed for the base 13.0 kWh Zero S and that particular display is not picking up on the power tank installation. I think it is just guessing instead of actually measuring kWh used. ???
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The last update I got on my 2016 earlier this year also wiped out my "Custom" settings. I had to redo those.
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The last update I got on my 2016 earlier this year also wiped out my "Custom" settings. I had to redo those.
The firmware update that I received the other day had no effect on my custom settings, or anything else that I noticed. I sure wish that Zero would let their customers know what changes that their firmware updates are supposed to do. At least that way we could decide if we wanted the update and would be able to tell if it actually performed the claimed improvement. But Zero has never done this and it doesn't look like they ever plan to do so. :(
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Not true. The big update earlier this year (or was it late last year) that changed the charging algorithm was also accompanied by information on what the update did. Once the battery reached 100%, it stopped charging until the battery fell below 90%. The recommendation was to only charge it up right before you planned on riding. If you planned on letting it sit for a spell, don't leave it plugged in. This was the exact opposite of the instructions I got when I first bought the bike. At that time, I was told to always leave it plugged in if I wasn't riding it.
That was the update that screwed up my estimated range until I ran the battery all the way down to zero. It also messed up the "remaining charge" display, as it appeared as though I had the 9.6 kWh battery instead of the 13 kWh battery. Again, when I ran the charge all the way down to zero it seemed to reset itself and it was behaving properly (at least, up until that MORON hit me this past June and totaled the bike). That was the same update that reset my custom settings too. At least that I caught right away.
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If anyone's wondering what the latest firmware contains, you could look here: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/firmware/
It looks like they're giving some details about the latest firmware
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If anyone's wondering what the latest firmware contains, you could look here: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/firmware/
It looks like they're giving some details about the latest firmware
Thanks! That was news to me. (I will admit to not going out of my way to visit the Zero website.) Of course, thinking about those descriptions makes me wonder if trying to solve one year's problem might result in an unintended issue for another year's model programming. ??? Such as: how does improving the performance of a MY17 battery MBS affect the performance of a MY15 MBS?
It looks like none of the firmware updates that I received for my 2018 Zero make any changes to the way I ride and use my bike.
Regarding JamieC's comment about Zero's recommendation not to leave the charger plugged in all of the time: I heard about that in a letter from Zero over two years ago and started following their advice on my 2014 S. Oddly, it was shortly after I started unplugging my charger every time it finished charging that my charger stopped charging the battery pack to 100% and would stop at 98% and then finally 92%. ???
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If anyone's wondering what the latest firmware contains, you could look here: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/firmware/
It looks like they're giving some details about the latest firmware
Added this link to the Unofficial Zero Manual reference and for good measure requested Internet Archive Wayback Machine service to add a copy of it.
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I just updated my bike's BMS from version No. 31 to No. 34 on my 2018 Zero. The process took about 30 minutes and at the end of that time period, my phone said that the update had "timed out", that the firmware update had failed and to try updating again. When I turned the bike back on, it said that my firmware was up to date and no new firmware updates were available. And so it goes. ::)
If I notice anything strange when I ride my bike again I will let you know. ;)
Yesterday I maked update for my 2018 SR, I've had exactly the same message like you at the end (Android). About failed firmware update. I updated BMS and Main Dash. My bike seem work great.