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[Specter]

So my chain, has about 8k on it, was extensively cleaned, and re adjusted (seems to be happening fairly often now) and it has a tick in it.  I can feel it when riding, tick tick tick every time it goes around the front sprocket.

I am aware this is probably a significant wear spot, the chain has a fairly large slop span, it can get tight to the point of barely making minimum clearance of 30 mm to over 50 mm at it's loosest spot when rotating the wheel to look for the loose spot to adjust from.

anyways, the ticking.   Is this something that,
A.  yes aaron chains do that when they get old, it's probably a worn flat / or sticking area but it's still safe to ride for a while, the tick alone is not major

or
B. Yes aaron you molested your chain very well here, you should probably replace it sooner rather than later (permanently)
or
C. This is very dangerous you really need to get that thing off the road now before it lets loose and takes your leg with you.

Is this something that is a really bad thing to be riding on or am I safe for a bit.

I do have a new chain and what I have been doing is, once a month taking the current one off, put different chain on, so i can take the dirty one and givce it a good bath in a soaking bucket and a brush to get it genuinely clean deep down, the lubricating it and putting in a bag to hold until next change out.

im overall looking at my chains about once a week now, or once every 100 miles or so, or if I burn a battery down in under 100 miles (riding really rough, like track day or wot at 8 am on sunday morning for 15 miles straight thing), adjusting if needed, lubing .. quick brush spray and deep clean once a month needed or not.

Given how much dirt and dust is flying everywhere with all the construction, and the gd silt that's in everything now being blown all over, I feel this extra level of chain care is really needed to keep from replacing them every 5 or 6k miles, at 230 dollars a pop

Chain ticking - ticking time bomb or reminder to put new one on?

thanks
Aaron

[Pard]

How are you swapping chains so often?  New master link/rivet every time?

If my chain was doing anything other than running smoothly, knowing it has been well maintained, I would swap it ASAP.

There could be corrosion hidden in the pin of one of the sealed links that could cause a catastrophic failure.

Treat these machines like aircraft.  You do not want to ever experience a failure.  Change for quality components BEFORE the operational items expire on you.

[Specter]

You can fiddle with the spacer and it'll slide off by pushing the wheel all the way forward.  Might be that I have enough stretch in it already to allow me to do that,  this one has been re tensioned several times now.

Im pretty sure the wear is not so much corrosion but erosion by me not cleaning it as often as I should have done so initially due to ignorance.  Originally thought Id be able to get away with 300 to 500 mile increments, then UNDERSTANDING that all the silt all over the roads where we are and with the construction, and hitting water and that shit just coating onto the chain, then drying on, and then getting ground in, is eating them pretty badly.

Picture if you ran your bike around sand dunes all day, not necessarily ON the dunes but in the parking lot, where they could pick up a lot of sand and silt, and that gets into the grease on your chain and you give it a good working thru, what that'd be doing to you.  This is florida and they are building EVERYwhere.  The dump trucks are dropping sand/clay/silt all  over the roads, it rains, the silt just sits there, waiting for tires to grab it up and coat everything.  When it's dry, you can see and feel this shit blowing all over when it's windy, you can feel the silt stinging you.  Now you KNOW that's gotta be getting into your chain grease too! you really can't help that.  Even using that Chain Wax stuff the chain is still a bit sticky.

Im sure high torque accelerations and a few prolonged high speed runs have taken their toll on it as well, but would think the startup is doing more wear to them than a steady state-ish run would.

I just ordered another new one, and some sprockets with different teeth count to play with my other bike on the track to try somethings out, so figured id ask if this one was safe as an emergency spare or if it just needs to goto recycling.  Sounds like it's better off being recycled.

Aaron

[EvaMuc]

Had something similar in the first months when i had my Ribelle, a ticking from somewhere in the drivetrain. That tick-tick-tick was changing with speed.

Thought it came from the axial play of the drive shaft and expected the worst (damaged transmission).
At the end it was an uneven lengthened chain, although the chain was just 1500km old and the free play adjusted correctly.
Probably the several hefty accelarations during a track day and a safety training within a few days damaged it permanently.
Got a new chain from the dealer on his own cost as it was still under warranty.
Recommend to get a complete new chain kit.

Best, Jens

[Specter]

That's what I ended up doing.
Hmm replacing the chain, another nice Learning Curve.  Real simple right?  umm yah there are plenty of things you can do to booger yourself a bit there.  At least I learned how to take apart the ass end of the bike and put it back together.  My only concern now and it LOOKS like I did it right but not sure I swaged the master link properly. 
It's holding, I am watching it like a hawk but have a feeling on it.  Also not entirely sure I got the wheel totally aligned properly, although I DID use the tool, and it looks /feels pretty well think it might be cocked a bit.   I'll have to clean it, do a fast run up and down the street and look for the dirt mark, that's generally a real good  indication if it's cocked or not.. 
Maybe IM just being paranoid but I don't need a chain flying off at 120 MPH and locking up the rear axle.  Looking at the old chain, although you can't physically really see it, you sure can feel it, there are some real loose sloppy links and some very tight ones. 
The regen is stupid powerful now too, which I do understand, without the slop of a flappy crappy chain, there's a lot better feedback on your tire traction condition and it'll put more oomph to the regen because it don't feel like the tire is slipping... at  least that's my theory.

Aaron

[jotjotde]

@Aaron, as you mentioned in an earlier post, you are not afraid of going around in wet conditions and you have to cope with dirty roads.
I totally agree with you that this is for sure a nasty combination shortening chain life significantly. It is only a matter of time until moisture creeps under the X-rings and corrupts the grease. Nanosized silica wears down the rings as well, so the process is self-accelerating.

A ticking chain is not dangerous in my view but going around with it for longer time wears down the sprockets. Re-using a chain I would not recommend. No lube job you can do on a chain can replace the old grease or remove the grit what crept underneath the seal rings.

In my view you have two options.
- Change the chain more often - but then you won't need 200 bucks top of the line stuff. Most chain manufacturers offer different qualities, so there's potential for saving some dollars.
- Install a permanent oiling device. The Scottoiler won't work bc it needs suction from the air intake of the ICE, so as far as I know you would need a Cobrra oiler.

Riveting a new chain is something I haven't done yet, I use an Enuma chain (Japanese manufacturer), they have a patented screw link. Installation was a breeze and it still looks good after approx. 7,000 km now.

[Specter]

I ended up throwing it into the recycle bin.  I punched a few rivets out of it so I could practice with the tool.  Wish I could practice swaging w/o boogering the master link but no such thing.

it's been about 400 miles now and the chain looks good and my swage looks good, I am still paranoid about it. I probably could have pressed in the side link a bit further than I did but figure if I start dicking around with now i'll just cause a lot more issues than leaving it as is.  I ordered a few new master links, to have on hand so if I get too worried about it, I can pop it, and put a new one in, and try again on the squeeze.

The current one is flared, but it don't stick out quite as far as the normal links on the flared side, BUT the flare is big enough it can't squish thru the hole and pop out w/o me seeing that happening.  Maybe im just being paranoid but I don't want to find out at 120 mph that something was wrong.  The chain is not making any strange noises or 'event' noises every time that link ticks around somewhere so that's a  plus.

Aaron

[Motoproponent]

I have a pair of calipers that I use to measure the width of the other links when I press on the side plates. Also have the master link positioned in the "slack" of the chain run under the swingarm when using the chain tool. Until you get the feel for it, press the plate on a bit, remove the tool, measure, then swing the links/roll the chain up and down to see if there is any binding compared to adjacent links.

Bonus is you can use the calipers to measure the correct flare. The chain manufacturers usually post the acceptable range for the flare but a good rule of thumb is 10%. On my D.I.D chain the pins are 5mm in diameter. 10% would be 5.5mm. D.I.D spec says 5.5mm to 5.7mm.

[Specter]

Im using did chains and it's in spec as you mentioned, but real close to the front of the plate, like I probably should have pushed the pin thru a bit more so a bit more was sticking out the other side.  Im probably just being paranoid here but better safe than sorry overall.  Master links are cheap so if I get too willy about it, ill just pop it and redo it, it won't hurt me to learn how to do that better anyways TBH.

If it was wearing thru or getting ready to go, would you see some signs, like it's starting to push thru or something or is it like a modern belt where it looks fine then just pop?  Not trying to pass off any blame or anything, just trying to learn on this thing.
Thanks

Aaron

[Motoproponent]

There's signs. tight spots that stay kinked or loose spots that will make that ticking you started the thread with.

If you're worried about the master link, which is normal the first few times you do it yourself, put the bike up on a rear stand. Spin the rear wheel till the master link is in the 3 o'clock position on the rear sprocket. Try to pull it away from the sprocket. There should be very little give. (as someone else mentioned earlier, if you can see daylight between the chain and sprocket when doing this, change the chain)  Then do the same with the adjacent links on either side of the master link. You should get the same amount of resistance from all the links you try. Then spin the tire backwards and watch the master link when it comes off the sprocket. It should fall slack the same as the links before it. If it's too tight it will bind and stay kinked a little.  If it's wearing evenly compared to the rest of the chain it's in spec and doing it's job.

[Specter]

I am more concerned that the flare on the swage was not enough to hold it in place, it would work it'sself off radially.  After talking to a friend who own's a bike shop yesterday, and showing him pictures he was saying, the chain takes rather little abuse in 'that' direction with forces to not worry about it too much, but as you said, check it on the axle is a great way to see if you do have it spaced correctly in the other aspects.  New master links are only a few bucks, so if I pop a few on and off,  playing to learn it, no biggie.

Aaron

[Demoni]

I originally typed this up last week right as the forum went down. Thankfully I always copy my messages before clicking post. 

So my chain, has about 8k on it, was extensively cleaned, and re adjusted (seems to be happening fairly often now) and it has a tick in it.  I can feel it when riding, tick tick tick every time it goes around the front sprocket.

I am aware this is probably a significant wear spot, the chain has a fairly large slop span, it can get tight to the point of barely making minimum clearance of 30 mm to over 50 mm at it's loosest spot when rotating the wheel to look for the loose spot to adjust from.

Thank you for identifying your chain has tight and loose spots and setting the slack at the tightest point. That is something that a lot of people overlook. If you adjust your chain slack at a loose spot this will result in an overly tight chain for a part of it's rotation. A tight chain will put excessive loads on the wheel and motor pinion bearings that may result in their failure.

That being said having a chain that is almost twice as loose for some of it's travel can cause excessive chain slap when accelerating. This slack allows the motor to generate greater pulling force before it is able to transmit that force to the rear wheel. If you punch an object starting with your fist 1" away from it the amount of energy you can exert is minimal, the further away from the object you start the more energy you can generate.
If the force applied to your chain is greater than its tensile strength this may result in a chain failure. A chain can store a lot of energy if all that energy is released in a short period of time (snap) it can do some serious damage.

Sprockets and chains tend to wear together. The chain rollers are in contact with various parts of a sprockets teeth during normal riding. The harder you accelerate the more this load is focused onto the left side of the front sprockets teeth and the right side of the rear sprockets teeth. During constant speed riding the load is focused closer to the root of the teeth. During regen there is a load (less than during acceleration) applied to the opposite face of the teeth. This is why bikes tend to sound different when you run them in reverse.

[Demoni]

Im using did chains and it's in spec as you mentioned, but real close to the front of the plate, like I probably should have pushed the pin thru a bit more so a bit more was sticking out the other side. 

There does not seem to be any published spec (that I could find) on the correct seating depth for a DID master link side plate. The official DID chain tool includes 2 pockets that act as stops when the plate is properly seated.
I normally press plates to a depth similar to the other links in the chain, always verify the links are not bound up due to excesses clamping force. My logic is the other links use the same O/X rings as the master link so the clamping force should match.

This video gives a nice close up shot of a properly pressed master link @ 14:03


The proper flare will depend on the specific chain being used
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0614/8253/3026/files/2022_Flare_Dimensions.pdf?v=1670337654

[Specter]

Mine looks close to that.  I don't think I put the bolt thru enough so it's flared but the distance from the face of the side plate to the top of the flare is fairly small.  Instead of having say 3 mm standout, mine is probably 1 or so, it's flared pretty close TO the side plate.  it's not stiff, it feels about like the other ones and so far has held several hundred miles with no noticeable issues, still though, I will probably redo it when I get back off the track from this weekends stints and am doing bike maintenance on both of the bikes and have a day to do all my 'bike stuff' and get it done properly this time!

Aaron

Thanks for the vid.  I pretty much know the parts I messed up now, and know what NOT to do next time i play with the chain.