ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Lightning => Topic started by: Apollo on October 30, 2023, 11:59:31 AM
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I got the new motorcycle itch and after owning a lot of motorcycles I decided to head to my favorite Ducati dealer for a new bike. My initial plans were to pickup a Baliss V2. After sitting on the bike and finding out how high the seat was and little the steering lock was, I decided to try the Panigale V4. It’s supposed to have more torque and rider-friendly. The seat was way too high and the bars too low with a minimum steering lock. This is not the same as the Duc’s I had back in the early 90’s, these were race bikes. Off to the side, they also had an Energica EVO+ RS Corsa. I thought it looked like something I would ride, so I decided to come home, do some Internet research, and see YouTube reviews. Everything looked pretty good, except the range and weight. I noted that Ducati had a new MotoE bike named V21L. I read up on it and found out it was a race bike only and would be extremely expensive to convert for street use if you could get your hands on one. They are DC 800V charging only.
In reading all the forums I found a small business here in California named Lightning Motorcycles. According to their specs, they were lighter than the Duc and had more power. Lots of YouTube videos later and I had some pretty big questions about the California machine.
I called Lightning Motorcycles to ask a million questions about their bikes. Specifically, I noted lots of negative rumors and backlash on the online forums and YouTube about their motorcycles and wanted to perform independent research to make my own conclusions. They recommended I drive up to meet in person to review their motorcycles and address my concerns.
After reviewing lots of videos and forum posts, I built up a pretty big list of hard questions I would ask when I visited. I called Lightning and they said to come up any time, so I scheduled a visit about two days later.
Richard H. met me at the door and gave me a quick intro to Lightning Motorcycles and a rundown on the bikes. I sat and asked lots of questions about batteries, types of electric motors, ECU’s, VCU’s, dash display, power output, range, gearing, etc, trying to be fair but concerned about what I heard and read. After about two hours Richard offered to take me out on a test ride. Richard recommended a Strike R for me after taking into consideration of my proposed riding style and my glorified riding/racing experience. I really was interested in the LS-218, but Richard recommended that I try the Strike R whereas he would take the LS-218 and we could switch after a while.
It was my first time to ride an Electric Motorcycle and it was extremely enjoyable I constantly wanted to pull in the clutch lever (there is none), and would roll off the throttle and try to up-shift (no shifting). I was pretty overwhelmed with the power, smoothness of the motor, and the great suspension/brakes. I've many miles under my belt driving an EV, so I adapted to the “one pedal” or “throttle control/regen” style of driving very quickly. After a very short time, I felt that the Strike R was already a big step up in power from what I’d ridden before, and decided to skip the LS-218 test ride. The torque/pull reminded me of the old Ducati twins, only multiplied by four. Nice smooth pull on the throttle and it would pull the front tire in the air easily starting at about 45mph hitting double that in short order. I decided the Strike R had plenty of power and I lost interest in riding the LS-218.
After the test ride, I was pretty giddy and needed to sit, eat, and absorb what had happened. They had a nice diner on the premises and it gave me time to sit, eat, review, and ponder. Meeting up with Richard again, I had a fresh 100 questions. They had Strike Carbon, Strike R, and LS-218 bikes available for review. The LS-218 seating seemed a bit more aggressive so I decided that it may be a bit much for the freeway rides I may do to get to all the places I wanted to go. The two Strike models seemed to have more sport bike seating that I could ride for freeway distances without wearing myself out.
I tried to perform due diligence by inquiring nicely about some of the negative comments and rumors about the bikes. Richard appeared to be honest and answered all my questions. He left to attend a scheduled meeting and I had a chance to speak with some of the tech team. They all seemed to be nice guys who answered all my questions about what they were building at the time and potential future options. It was pretty interesting to see one of the bikes getting twin 255hp electric motors installed.
I took a number of pictures and found that the bikes appeared to be very well made with the CNC machines running constantly making billet parts.
I left a deposit for a Strike R and hope to be able to answer questions and show pictures about riding a Lighting in the wild.
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So what is the Strike R MSRP and when will you be able to purchase the bike? It is being built to order, or do they have them in stock? Does Lightning have any retail dealers other than a buyer needing to purchasing one directly from the manufacturer?
I am reminded of buying my first electric motorcycle in the spring of 2009 from the Electric Motorsport company in Oakland, CA. When I went to pick up the bike at their factory, after filling out all of the DMV paperwork, I was finally told at the last minute that they could not sell it to me directly as they did not have a DMV retail license. Later that year Best Buy ran into the same problem when they tried to sell Brammo Enertias out of their stores and also discovered that they could not do so because they did not have the proper vehicle retail license from the DMV. Photo attached.
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Let us know when you actually get one.
Everyone is nice when they are taking your money.
aaron
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Let us know when you actually get one.
Everyone is nice when they are taking your money.
aaron
Look at you with this whole 'brevity is the soul of wit' going on. I like it.
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Everyone is blown away when they ride an EV for the first time.
Have you tried other EV bikes, like Energica or Zero?
Compare price, charging methods, service options, reliability, delivery time, etc.
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>> So what is the Strike R MSRP and when will you be able to purchase the bike?
As prices change over time and this post won't, I would recommend checking out their website to get current prices, That's what I did.
I left a $5K deposit and was told I should be able to pick up the bike in about 90 days. I was told they needed to finish up some bikes ahead of mine but would contact me with emailed pictures of the build.
>> It is being built to order, or do they have them in stock? Does Lightning have any retail dealers other than a buyer needing to purchasing one directly from the manufacturer?
From what I understand, they are built to order and they do not have any retail dealers. They appear to be a small manufacturer and have been really hurt by the Pandemic.
>>I am reminded of buying my first electric motorcycle in the spring of 2009 from the Electric Motorsport company in Oakland, CA. When I went to pick up the bike at their factory, after filling out all of the DMV paperwork, I was finally told at the last minute that they could not sell it to me directly as they did not have a DMV retail license.
This was one of the questions I had for Richard H. upon initial bike discussions. He told me Lightning Motorcycles is registered with the US DOT and the State of California. He said that when I come to pick up the bike he will drive with me down to the local DMV to ensure it gets registered properly or ship the bike to me and I register it at my local DMV. The local DMV near Lighting is about two miles away and I drove past to ensure it's operational. It's super small and had zero customers. I couldn't believe it.
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Let us know when you actually get one.
Everyone is nice when they are taking your money.
aaron
That's my plan. I also asked that I get pictures once every two weeks of how the build process is going. I have already received a couple of pictures and some questions about build options. Like all good customers, I change my mind every two weeks to make them crazy.
I will be updating this thread with pictures of how it's going.
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Everyone is blown away when they ride an EV for the first time.
Have you tried other EV bikes, like Energica or Zero?
Compare price, charging methods, service options, reliability, delivery time, etc.
No, I didn't try other EV bikes. I was only considering the Energica RS+ Tricolore, but I liked the look and internal design of the Lightning. There is an Energica dealer not too far from me and Morgan Vetter called and emailed me to ensure I had all the information about the bikes that I needed and dealer info. Nice.
I did review all other criteria listed and I felt each manufacturer excelled at some things and was soft on others.
Of course, these are my observations and opinions. All the EV Bikes are expensive so I think it's a good idea to review all the points you mentioned to come to an informed decision.
One of the reasons for me making this forum entry is due to the thin amount of factual data on purchasing, getting the bike, and riding it. There seems to be a lot on Energica from NewZeroland and it's been very helpful.
I plan to try and emulate how he reviewed living with his EV bikes.
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There seems to be a lot on Energica from NewZeroland and it's been very helpful.
I plan to try and emulate how he reviewed living with his EV bikes.
I also enjoyed all of Sam's videos. Crossing fingers -- I hope very much that everything goes smoothly for you, because we may finally hear details about the bike from an enthusiastic and forthright owner, and because it would be evidence of Lightening succeeding. You've already done much homework and given us a decent picture of the state of the company.
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I'm curious, in your mind, why you think Sam at New Zeroland did an abrupt about-face from praising Lightning to buying multiple Energicas and shipping them to New Zealand. And why there's never been any pro-Lightning content from him since.
I'm also curious as to what Youtube reviews convinced you to go with this bike.
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I'm curious, in your mind, why you think Sam at New Zeroland did an abrupt about-face from praising Lightning to buying multiple Energicas and shipping them to New Zealand. And why there's never been any pro-Lightning content from him since.
I'm also curious as to what Youtube reviews convinced you to go with this bike.
From what I gathered from Sam's videos and such, there are laws in his home of New Zealand that require imported vehicles to have anti-lock brakes installed from the factory. This ruled out Lightning bikes and they refunded his deposit. As I recall, he was impressed with the Lightning's ride, power, and brakes. It looked like Lighting was his initial choice, but the Government said no, hence he went with his backup plan of Energica.
From his videos, he appeared very happy with the Lightnings as well as the Energicas.
This is what I gathered from interpreting his videos and such, not to be taken as fact!
From my research, "From 1 November 2021 all current model new motorcycles and imported used motorcycles over 125cc must have ABS fitted for them to join the national road fleet".
https://www.onthrottle.co.nz/post/nz-s-mandatory-motorcycle-abs-what-is-exempt-and-what-isn-t#:~:text=From%201%20November%202021%20all,or%20a%20Combined%20Braking%20System. (https://www.onthrottle.co.nz/post/nz-s-mandatory-motorcycle-abs-what-is-exempt-and-what-isn-t#:~:text=From%201%20November%202021%20all,or%20a%20Combined%20Braking%20System.)
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I should make a proper follow-up video to explain why I didn't follow through with my Lightning order, but you're right that the ABS laws. The build quality wasn't that great when I did my test ride, and nothing on the bike was waterproof, which was also a huge red flag as it rains 90% of the year in New Zealand. Then covid hit and I wasn't able to fly back to the US to ride the Strike R. Long story short, Energica had everything I wanted and more, but I still really enjoyed riding the Strike and I'm looking forward to your videos on it ;D
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nothing on the bike was waterproof,
What does that mean? "Nothing?" So they purposely used handlebar switches that are unusual and not waterproof like all normal switches? The lights fill up with water...?
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nothing on the bike was waterproof,
What does that mean? "Nothing?" So they purposely used handlebar switches that are unusual and not waterproof like all normal switches? The lights fill up with water...?
When I visited Lightning, this was one of my primary questions for Richard H. As I drive an EV, I know there are electronic devices hanging out in the environment. Rain, puddles, etc. All EV's in the US are tested and seem to work fine.
Richard told me that rain, washing the motorcycle, etc. would be no problem, but he did recommend against using a power washer on it. He was cautioning against getting water in the wheel bearings and chain more than anything else.
I did check out some parts of the bike and it looks pretty watertight. The onboard 12 battery is sealed with LEDs to review its status. The CCS charging "modem" is also a sealed unit. It looked to be a swap-out type unit. The VCS is also sealed. The BCS and ECS appeared to be built at their shop and are water-cooled. They appear to be in a sealed aluminum box with a heat transfer plate built in.
As they are all hand-built bikes, it looks to me as if they are constantly looking for updates and upgrades. Ford and GM make updates every 2-3 years, Tesla makes updates every three months, and I suspect Lightning is also on the fast track as far as making updates.
They appear to have a number of test mules that all the employees commute and ride with, as well as local Bay Area riders that they stay close to. I don't know all the parts used, but I don't think they would think twice about updating software or hardware on the bike multiple times a year in an effort to build a better motorcycle.
While I was there I asked about custom work being done and they said they could do it if they had time and it didn't interfere with the bike design. I also asked for some options that were not listed, but they helped the best they could. I asked for a silver upper triple clamp, whereas all the bikes came with black clamps. They searched around and had a non-painted one and they put it on with no issues. I asked for Black Wheels when Silver is stock. Again, they dug around in the back room and came up with a set of black wheels. I asked for dual motors. They said no!
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So everything is exactly just as waterproof as a normal motorcycle? Which all warn against power washers.
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So everything is exactly just as waterproof as a normal motorcycle? Which all warn against power washers.
Just to clarify.. 3 years ago Richard told me the AIM racing dash wasn't waterproof (it's usually used in cars). This was a concern because I just replaced my Zero's dash for that reason. The bigger issue was that there wasn't a sealed battery box, or a battery box at all, so all the individual cells were open to the elements. I'm sure things have improved since then, but the bike wasn't ready for rainy day rides at that time. I'm excited to see photos and videos of what the bikes look like now to see if any of those improvements were made.
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Sweet. Would love to see feedback when you get it.
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Just to clarify.. 3 years ago Richard told me the AIM racing dash wasn't waterproof (it's usually used in cars). This was a concern because I just replaced my Zero's dash for that reason. The bigger issue was that there wasn't a sealed battery box, or a battery box at all, so all the individual cells were open to the elements. I'm sure things have improved since then, but the bike wasn't ready for rainy day rides at that time. I'm excited to see photos and videos of what the bikes look like now to see if any of those improvements were made.
I reviewed some of the older "Test Mules" it it appears they use an older AIM Display
https://www.aimshop.com/pages/bike-displays (https://www.aimshop.com/pages/bike-displays)
Older Display
https://www.aimshop.com/products/aim-mxp-strada-6-tft-dash-display-with-race-icons (https://www.aimshop.com/products/aim-mxp-strada-6-tft-dash-display-with-race-icons)
AiM MXP 1.3 Strada 6" TFT Dash Display with Race Icons
Technical -
....
- Waterproof: IP65
I am not sure of the name brand of the newer displays, but from looking at the bikes they were building, it appears to be waterproof as Richard told me.
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The bigger issue was that there wasn't a sealed battery box, or a battery box at all, so all the individual cells were open to the elements.
I have taken a pretty good look at this and asked Richard a couple of times about watertightness. I think Richard is suspecting I am going to start building bikes using all the info I have taken. I have some pictures of bikes they were assembling so some pics are Strike C and some are Strike R. The battery box and front end are the same.
The picture of the top of the battery box is milled aluminum so no water, fingers, or screwdrivers are sneaking in.
The back portion of the pic shows the EMS which is water-cooled and open as they were assembling it. There is an aluminum top that bolts on to seal the whole thing up. Both sides of the battery box are milled solid aluminum and become part of the frame.
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Here is a picture of a Strike C during assembly. This pic shows the front of the battery box behind the front tire.
That is a milled solid aluminum plate and should provide some pretty good protection. There is a second plate like this that bolts in from the top providing full battery protection from rocks, roadkill, and slow GSXR's. ;D
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What's the date of that picture they sent you?
Id want pictures of MY bike being built, not stock photos of 4 years ago.
Also, in general.
This whole waterproof concept.....
Waterproof and Pressure Washer shout NOT be in the same sentence EVER !!
Plenty of stuff is waterproof, but will get destroyed by a pressure washer.
There are several orders of magnitude difference between getting rained on, or even a garden hose sprayed on something .vs. a 3000 psi targeted stream of water.
Solar panels are waterproof, they have to be, but a pressure washer will ruin them, it tears the seals out, then they are no longer waterproof. Having water blown at 400 FPS up under a seat to drip into a charger, the bike would never see that under ANY normal conditions.
also, water proof / water resistant.
it may handle being out in the rain overnight or even for a few days, but not designed to be at the bottom of a retention pond for a few hours until the tow truck hauls it out.
just saying
aaron
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My watch is "waterproof" for SCUBA, but specifically warns against diving into water and exposing it to pressurized water sprays. What we need to know is whether the bike has sufficient protection from rain while being ridden, sufficient to turn the SPRAY into just "water."
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Well done, Apollo, for being calm, calculated and positive, putting your money where your mouth is, and for all the due diligence that you're sharing with us. Much appreciated.
I hope your faith is rewarded with a good bike. ;)
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What's the date of that picture they sent you?
Id want pictures of MY bike being built, not stock photos of 4 years ago.
The dates should be fairly current as I took all of them this last week of my bike and another being built.
The battery pack boxes on the bikes are the same, so some pics are a Stike C and others a Strike R (Mine).
I took pictures the best I could while staying out of the way of the techs. I am not a professional journalist, but
they didn't have any issues with me taking pictures of my unassembled bike.
Today's picture of my bike, 99% assembled and ready for testing.
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I just hope things have improved since Brandon made these videos three years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrgZNJ9dcmQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPuAoGeR8Bg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6NW478faBc
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I just hope things have improved since Brandon made these videos three years ago:
I've never met Brandon, but it appears to me he has an agenda. His poor acting and pretending to be innocent is overwhelming.
Although he has no formal training in Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, or Medical Degrees, he claims that at his last "real job" he built a "Bionic" implant that is inserted in someone's eye to restore vision to some blind people. Maybe he cleaned the floors at the facility where they were manufactured. That would match his level of education.
Anyone who is even slightly familiar with how the US medical system knows we don't let high school graduates build bionic implants for blind people. This is so laughable that we have to keep watching to see how far his lies will go. After building himself up as someone who restores vision to the blind, you place absolutely no value on anything he says after this, it's just for comedic value.
I wasn't at his bike test sessions, but I would suspect he somehow got a hold of a preproduction bike and tried to make a living out of showing how the bike didn't live up to full expectations. The bike he rode performed so badly, that I am sure any owner would be back at the place of purchase to repair the issue. There obviously is something wrong with the bike. But instead of working with the manufacturer, he proceeds to try and do a power and speed test. I would not be surprised at all if he didn't disconnect one of the windings of the motor or run it while the battery was almost dead. This was his report while he was trying to get employment with two other E-Motorcycle manufacturers. (He failed). I find it laughable that NO-ONE else has had these reported issues except for Brandon. Trouble seems to follow Brandon more than Lightning. I do recommend watching his videos for the laughs.
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I just hope things have improved since Brandon made these videos three years ago:
I've never met Brandon, but it appears to me he has an agenda. His poor acting and pretending to be innocent is overwhelming.
Although he has no formal training in Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, or Medical Degrees, he claims that at his last "real job" he built a "Bionic" implant that is inserted in someone's eye to restore vision to some blind people. Maybe he cleaned the floors at the facility where they were manufactured. That would match his level of education.
Anyone who is even slightly familiar with how the US medical system knows we don't let high school graduates build bionic implants for blind people. This is so laughable that we have to keep watching to see how far his lies will go. After building himself up as someone who restores vision to the blind, you place absolutely no value on anything he says after this, it's just for comedic value.
I wasn't at his bike test sessions, but I would suspect he somehow got a hold of a preproduction bike and tried to make a living out of showing how the bike didn't live up to full expectations. The bike he rode performed so badly, that I am sure any owner would be back at the place of purchase to repair the issue. There obviously is something wrong with the bike. But instead of working with the manufacturer, he proceeds to try and do a power and speed test. I would not be surprised at all if he didn't disconnect one of the windings of the motor or run it while the battery was almost dead. This was his report while he was trying to get employment with two other E-Motorcycle manufacturers. (He failed). I find it laughable that NO-ONE else has had these reported issues except for Brandon. Trouble seems to follow Brandon more than Lightning. I do recommend watching his videos for the laughs.
This kind of bullshit is why I rarely watch video product reviews, only written. Lazy, ignorant people can blabber on, but it seems they don't want to write. So it helps weed them out.
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I would not be surprised at all if he didn't disconnect one of the windings of the motor or run it while the battery was almost dead. This was his report while he was trying to get employment with two other E-Motorcycle manufacturers. (He failed). I find it laughable that NO-ONE else has had these reported issues except for Brandon. Trouble seems to follow Brandon more than Lightning. I do recommend watching his videos for the laughs.
You've covered a lot of ground in this post that, I feel, warrants a response. Brandon is/was a programmer. He worked as a programmer at a place called Second Sight that was working on designing a bionic eye. As far as I know he did programming for the company for the software the eye used. https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete
There were two bikes shown in the three videos. In videos one and two they were the Strike Carbon belonging to Jeff C, a guy who lives near me. He paid the full $20k and was given a 10kWh pack at 100ish volts and that's how the bike performed. It was always referred to, by Lightning, as production.
The second bike, the one with the glue stick and the acceleration tests, belongs to James G. Same story with the 100v and 10kWh pack with no DC fast charging. James' bike eventually got basically every component swapped (battery, controller, motor, etc). These are real customers with real bikes that were referred to as production. Please talk with Jeff or James if you want. I can get you their contact information.
This kind of bullshit is why I rarely watch video product reviews, only written. Lazy, ignorant people can blabber on, but it seems they don't want to write. So it helps weed them out.
That's funny because, due to the laughable state of modern 'journalism', I do almost the exact opposite.
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With the deep fakes and AI now, you can't trust either source.
coming right from the horses mouth, might be the horses ass with a skin planted on it!
can you name / find even one item, that's fairly popular, that there are not 100 videos and reviews that half love it, the other half, it totally sucks??
Aaron
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I received a call today letting me know my bike will be ready for pickup at the end of the week.
Now I have to see about renting a trailer for pickup and check in with the Hollister DMV about ensuring
I can make an appointment, ensure the Insurance is good, and schedule time off work.
Yea!!
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I received a call today letting me know my bike will be ready for pickup at the end of the week.
Now I have to see about renting a trailer for pickup and check in with the Hollister DMV about ensuring
I can make an appointment, ensure the Insurance is good, and schedule time off work.
Yea!!
Congratulations. Good luck at the DMV and getting your insurance company to recognize the Lightning as something that they want to insure.
When I tried to insure my first electric motorcycle in 2009, an Electric Motorsport GPR-S, Progressive didn't know what to do. Eventually they decided to rate it as a size of 1cc and charged me a premium of $5 for the entire year. :o Every year after that, the premium for my electric motorcycles kept going up until they surpassed what I was paying for my BMW R1200RS. :(
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Congratulations. Good luck at the DMV and getting your insurance company to recognize the Lightning as something that they want to insure.
I've been in touch with my insurance company and they are ready to start, they are waiting for me
to give them a VIN and start date. I don't want to start earlier than bike pickup.
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Apollo, U-Haul has a trailer that is specifically for bikes and it's really a nice trailer. Just roll the bike on and strap it down. It cost about 15 dollars a day to rent out here in Florida.
The only thing Id have to caution you is, the trailer is a bit long, which, while it makes it real nice to run the bike up and load it, it puts the bikes rear tires right over the tires of the trailer, making all the weight forward of center, and the thing bounce like a bouncy house if you don't counter balance it a bit.
I ended up throwing about 200 lbs of lead in the back end of mine and it rode like a caddy. I bring this up because I don't think anyone wants their bike bouncing all over the place, all the way home, even strapped down.
Aaron
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Apollo, U-Haul has a trailer that is specifically for bikes and it's really a nice trailer. Just roll the bike on and strap it down. It cost about 15 dollars a day to rent out here in Florida.
The only thing Id have to caution you is, the trailer is a bit long, which, while it makes it real nice to run the bike up and load it, it puts the bikes rear tires right over the tires of the trailer, making all the weight forward of center, and the thing bounce like a bouncy house if you don't counter balance it a bit.
I ended up throwing about 200 lbs of lead in the back end of mine and it rode like a caddy. I bring this up because I don't think anyone wants their bike bouncing all over the place, all the way home, even strapped down.
Aaron
Thank you. I will look into this.
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Apollo, U-Haul has a trailer that is specifically for bikes and it's really a nice trailer. Just roll the bike on and strap it down. It cost about 15 dollars a day to rent out here in Florida.
Aaron
Just checked U-Haul. $14.95 a day. Wow, can't believe it's that cheap. I was considering flying up and driving it back, but am concerned about new bike issues. It's about 400 miles from home to Lighting's place so going with the trailer is going to be the way to go.
Thank you!!
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Not to complicate things but you can also rent fully enclosed trailers which eliminates the possibility of road debris hitting your new vehicle.
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Not to complicate things but you can also rent fully enclosed trailers which eliminates the possibility of road debris hitting your new vehicle.
Nope. I want to be able to look in the mirror and see it all the way home. ;D
I'll clean the bugs off after I get home and do a ride or two.
The next step is to practice wrapping it. I would like to try a couple of designs.
I need to ensure my camera/mount works properly, then test out a few performance tests.
The last video I saw showed the top speed to be about 90mph. I plan to document the acceleration rate
and near-top speed. I may even weight it and myself so I can get an ideal of HP the motor is making.
We will see how much the wife lets me drive it. :)
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U-Haul moto trailers have a very short loading ramp that can cause some clearance issues with fully faired motorcycles. It would be a good idea to have a folding moto ramp or some pieces of wood handy.
The DMV can be a bit of a crap shoot in regards to how smooth your experience will be trying to register an EV motorcycle.
Last Energica customer had a DMV clerk that was 100% sure the bike needed to pass SMOG before they would process the registration. If something like that happens to you just go to another DMV office.
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U-Haul moto trailers have a very short loading ramp that can cause some clearance issues with fully faired motorcycles. It would be a good idea to have a folding moto ramp or some pieces of wood handy.
The DMV can be a bit of a crap shoot in regards to how smooth your experience will be trying to register an EV motorcycle.
Last Energica customer had a DMV clerk who was 100% sure the bike needed to pass SMOG before they would process the registration. If something like that happens to you just go to another DMV office.
That happened to me when I bought my BMW R100RS. I couldn't register until it passed smog testing. She had to work with the floor manager to understand my BMW was a motorcycle and not a car. Also, the license plate they sent me was WAY too big. I had to fill out a form explaining to the DMV why I felt the new plate was unacceptable. I was not happy about doing paperwork for their screwup. I thought about just putting the car plate on there and going.
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Apollo, U-Haul has a trailer that is specifically for bikes and it's really a nice trailer. Just roll the bike on and strap it down. It cost about 15 dollars a day to rent out here in Florida.
Aaron
Just checked U-Haul. $14.95 a day. Wow, can't believe it's that cheap. I was considering flying up and driving it back, but am concerned about new bike issues. It's about 400 miles from home to Lighting's place so going with the trailer is going to be the way to go.
Thank you!!
I'm glad someone mentioned it, I'm a huge fan of these trailers. I'm shocked at the quality you get for $15. And I think it rides ok, I've had worse. The dealer tied my Zero with a Canyon Dancer and two generic straps, just to the front tie points. Nothing else. They strongly recommended ONLY doing that, or at most, another on the rear tire just to stop it bouncing if needed. It was not needed. I went from San Diego to Hacienda Heights the first day. Rode there, then put it back on to bring it to NW Phoenix (375 miles). No worries, no issues. I plastic wrapped the bike to protect it. PLUS, it makes a HUGE difference in fuel efficiency. I took off the wrap late in the drive, and lost 6-9% economy.
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I plan to document the acceleration rate and near-top speed. I may even weight it and myself so I can get an ideal of HP the motor is making.
We will see how much the wife lets me drive it. :)
Great! Always love new data. You might also take it to the drag strip; this is what Daren did when he took his Ego to the one in Bakersfield:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTbu-vwjAIs
Additionally it would be good to start getting updated range numbers. I could never get a firm answer on what the LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff) for the pack was.
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Great! Always love new data. You might also take it to the drag strip; this is what Daren did when he took his Ego to the one in Bakersfield:
Additionally it would be good to start getting updated range numbers. I could never get a firm answer on what the LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff) for the pack was.
I have never ridden a bike at a drag strip, but that looked pretty fast.
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It's ok, nothing amazing. My last sport bike, a 2001, ran the quarter in 10.2 with a pro and 10.5 with most riders, but the terminal speed was under 130. So the Energica was a hair faster at the end, but a hair slower in getting there.
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It was his first time at a drag strip, too. He went in knowing nothing. I'm sure your paths will cross as you're within like 40 miles of each other or so.
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It was his first time at a drag strip, too. He went in knowing nothing. I'm sure your paths will cross as you're within like 40 miles of each other or so.
After searching a bit, I found the app used during this video. It's called Dragy and it's free. Unfortunately, the app creator requires you to purchase their GPS device to connect to, instead of using the GPS device in the phone. It probably has something to do with trying to be exactly accurate about where you start and stop.
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Does anyone know the name of the app he used to create the times and graphs at the end of the video?
I believe it was an iOS app called dragy.
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It was his first time at a drag strip, too. He went in knowing nothing. I'm sure your paths will cross as you're within like 40 miles of each other or so.
Launching an electric quickly is braindead simple. Launching ICE is tricky. So the only thing at play here is the reaction time to the tree. There's no skill involved beyond point and shoot. Unless he ran it with TC off, didn't notice. And I haven't done a hard launch without TC yet. I need to. This isn't to disrespect him or anything, but putting the perspective into it. My first few launches on the CBR1100XX were ridiculously bad, 12 seconds, then I got quick. You're trying not to loop it, burn the clutch, etc etc. On the Zero? SNAP it open, nothing can happen.
As far as location, his videos suggest he's in Southern CA? I'm in Peoria, AZ. Not 40 miles. I did post some pics where I was in San Diego and Hacienda Heights, which could be confusing, but that was just a trip.
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Launching without traction control and just romping the throttle and you'll stand that bitch up and drop off like a wiley coyote move with his acme rocket. Even with traction control you can still do a bit of a bump bump launching as it cuts power to put the wheel back down on the ground. Id assume that will kill your time too. Launching on an Electric bike DOES take a bit of skill, it's not just point and pull as you imply. You'll want it at the threshold of pulling the wheel off but not enough to activate your TC and cut power to it. With a little practice you'll be able to tell when you are getting light in the front end and be able to feather the throttle as you need.
YOU feathering it is precision control, the TC doing it is kill, ramp back up, too much KILL ramp back up. Oh don't forget the flashy blinkey blinks on the dashboard too.
As for the app. Another idea for that data, If one is on the racing circuit, you will be required to have a chrono on your bike, it talks to the track clocks etc and they come with the free app that tells you all the splits etc etc. I think you can buy them outright for like 600 bucks or rent them by the year for like 120 or so. I'll have to dig up the link. But on that, yes it will give you a nice chart / graph at the end of your run with all your data.
ALSO on that, if you have an airbag suit, most of them come with that build into them, you can plug in after your run and download the huge glob of data that thing accumulated on your run and there are programs that will spit out charts and stuff for you. They can tell you speed, lean angle, g force, accelleration / decel, direction, things like that which can be really helpful. If you DO happen to set the airbag off, the I guess you could call it, autopsy of the event, is incredible, you can tell by the inputs, ok here's where the asshole rear ended you, here is where you left the seat of your bike, this is about the point you went about half a somersault and set off the airbags. this little ding here is where your foot hit the handlebar on the way over the bike, this sharp spike here is where you hit the pavement, etc down to the millisecond. Hopefully nobody here ever needs that data, but it can be there when needed. This might also help an insurance claim as well, shut down the bs real fast when they try to play stupid with you. I have seen some companies want you to pay for this data, but i think Dianese is starting to include it with their D-Air systems now, but you'd have to check with them to be sure.
Aaron
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Does anyone know the name of the app he used to create the times and graphs at the end of the video?
I can confirm he was using a Dragy to collect the data shown in the graph at the end of the video.
https://dragymotorsports.com/ (https://dragymotorsports.com/)
Launching a lower power EV motorcycle is easy, just twist and go. Getting the best results from a high power bike like the Ego takes a bit more skill. The bike puts down so much torque applying it all can be tricky.
Getting a good launch on a EV is easier vs a ICE bike, there are less inputs to manage. Video does not show a good short of the dash to see what TC mode the bike in the video is set at however knowing the owner I suspect he has it turned off.
I believe a properly configured EGO+ with a experienced rider should be capable of a sub 10 second 1/4 mile pass. Optimizing tire pressure, suspension setup and gearing ratios make a big difference in ET.
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Semi related question.
The Dragy.
Ive noticed that GPS signals can get shitty quite often, and drop out and glitch and get huge accuracy deficiencies.
Granted your placement of the device / antenna has a huge impact on this, as does other electronics emitting / sniffing around it can block out signals too but with all that.
ive noticed it with my phone GPS, myBoat GPS, laptop with puck GPS, weather radar / lightning detector gps puck, garmins, and many other devices I own, which kind of rules out an old phone / crappy Silverado as the cause :D
Has anyone experienced any issues with this device? Im curious if it seems to work most the time, nearly all the time, or when it works it's good.. time. There's a difference between military grade and civilian grade GPS systems, although BOTH need as many sat inputs as they can get for accuracy.
Aaron
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I remember an interview with Bradley Smith in the early days of MotoE. He said all you had to do was throw as much of your body weight onto the front of the bike and just whack the throttle to get the best launch at the start of the race. Sounds like they were all using the TC of the bike. At least on television the launches all looked smooth without any herky-jerky traction control intervention. Those were the days the spec-bike was a modified version of the Ego. Nowadays they're all using a prototype Ducati.
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I don't quite remember where I seen it but Ducatti is getting ready to come out with an E bike, and they claim they got the wheelie thing figured out, the bike will take off like a scalded cat and no worries about wheelies.
Will be very interesting to see. It'd be nice to see some genuine competition to the Energica's. competition breeds innovation.
Aaron
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No, Ducati is not making anything for consumers at this point in time. MotoE bikes are for pros on the track only.
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Well that still, is competition for Energica's Cliente Corsica. Even though its for the racing circuit only, it's still being sold to customers, and eventually that tech makes its way down to the streets.
Currently there isn't too much that stood up against the EGO / RIbelle in the E world for racing but now that more manufacturers and not home growns are coming to market, it'll be interesting to see what they all do to earn / keep the Top Dog status.
Aaron
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Even though its for the racing circuit only, it's still being sold to customers, and eventually that tech makes its way down to the streets.
Currently there isn't too much that stood up against the EGO / RIbelle in the E world for racing but now that more manufacturers and not home growns are coming to market, it'll be interesting to see what they all do to earn / keep the Top Dog status.
Aaron
Currently, the Ducati V21L motorcycles and support equipment are Leased to established racing teams and not sold. These are spec MotoE bikes made for spec racing. They really have nothing to do with street bikes. They are consumable and set up to be a test bed by Ducati. No team is allowed to tear them down. If the team has issues, Ducati replaces the motor or battery, not the team mechanics.
As the single Ribelle entry is currently the only electric motorcycle being raced, it would appear to be the Top Dog in a field of one. I thought it was great the officials allowed the Ribelle to race, and I don't suspect they thought the entry would do as well as it has. The next season the officials will probably take a much closer look at the bike to document power figures and weight as they don't want any entry to be a runaway. As the racing Ribelle appears to be mostly stock and the competition was highly modified, you can bet the competition is going to want to ensure they have competitive machines or E racers will be not allowed.
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Kenyon raced a Zero SR/F at Laguna Seca in the exact same races Stefano participated in. He would have been at CotA too but came down with Covid at the last minute and they subbed in an engineer who had never raced before. Good on him! But yeah there were 2 electric bikes out there.
edit- Just so you can see the results as well, here's race 2 from Laguna Seca Super Hooligans: http://www.motoamericaregistration.com/Results/2023/LAGUNA/23_7_LAGUNA_RSD_R2_res.pdf
Specifically note the rider who placed 16th, Kenyon Kluge on the Zero SR/F. Kenyon is the Director of Electrical Engineering at Zero and a former professional AMA racer. Here's his facebook racing page https://www.facebook.com/Ksquaredracing/
edit 2- Stefano Mesa raced in 2022 as well at Laguna Seca.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=928H9XxCj5E
And in 2021 there were 2 LiveWires that competed as well as Kenyon on the Zero the whole time.
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Even if you finished dead last, just to be able to say you raced in that, is worth it's weight in gold. Just my opinion.
Aaron
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Does anyone have a recommendation for an Android app that can be used for acceleration tests?
I saw the one named Dragy, but it appears to require its own dedicated GPS device from Dragy ($150.00).
Is there another application that seems to be "Internet Approved" that people agree on as good enough for everyday testing?
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Does this mean you have no ability to modify the ride settings on your bike? Last I heard Guido only knows how to write iOS code so the Lightning app stuff doesn't work with Android.
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Oof, does this mean you have no ability to modify the ride settings on your bike? Last I heard Guido only knows how to write iOS code so the Lightning app stuff doesn't work with Android.
I spoke with Guido about the bike setup app for iOS and Android. He said he has both and they a in a constant state of development. He mentioned if there was "special" data that I wanted, he could see about getting it and pushing it on the phone for me. I.E. Making a custom app page with data I wanted. He said it would be good to learn about customers' requests and see if it has value.
I have not picked up my bike yet, so I don't have the Lightning Bike Setup app. As I have not really played with the app, I think it's for setup only and not real-time data. I'll ask..
I also see you can set up the bike using the center console. I don't know how much you can change while riding. Do people using other E-Bikes change the Power Mode or Regen Mode while driving?
I was considering creating a handlebar switch setup like the MotoGP bikes have, so I can change the power modes and regen modes from the handlebar. But, I am not really sure people change it that much, so that idea is on the back burner.
I was also asking about performance apps, so if I ride a Strike C, I could compare performance figures to other bikes using a common application that others use. From watching YouTube videos, the apps all seem to drop data once in a while with a high or low reading sporadically. I suspect this may be caused by the phone's GPS system not being super accurate. I was thinking I of doing 20~80mph pulls to get a more consistent power reading. I don't want to launch inconsistencies or GPS not syncing.
I stopped by the shop the other day and took a look at the 99% completed bike, and found a small paint defect after checking everything. For some reason, I was the only one to see it. They pulled the panel off immediately and it was sent over to the paint area for a minor fix. I think they will have to sand down the clear and a bit of white to respray, then spray clear over it again, sand, and polish. Easy to fix, but the finishing pieces always take the most time.
Naturally, I want it yesterday, but in a few months, I will forget it ever happened. Same with Custom Guitar work I have had done.
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Yeah Guido showed me prototypes of the app and screens several years ago. I don't see anything on the iOS store but that doesn't necessarily mean anything because Energica discontinued their app overall as well.
Every other manufacturer allows the bike's settings to be altered live in person while riding i.e they do not require an app to fully control their motorcycle. I would, personally, prefer not to require an app to use my bike and I can't think of anyone other than Lightning to make their bikes that way.
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Every other manufacturer allows the bike's settings to be altered live in person while riding i.e they do not require an app to fully control their motorcycle. I would, personally, prefer not to require an app to use my bike and I can't think of anyone other than Lightning to make their bikes that way.
Sorry if I was not clear in my explanation. I am under the impression that all the settings for the bike can be made from the dash display or the phone app. It looks like they are just giving you two methods for bike setup and review charging info. I don't think the phone app is a requirement, just a handy tool to pull down data.
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Unless there are changes that is exactly my understanding. The only way to adjust ride modes, regen, or other settings is via phone app. That was what was advertised publicly. If they've made updates to that I'd be interested to know.
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Unless there are changes that is exactly my understanding. The only way to adjust ride modes, regen, or other settings is via the phone app. That was what was advertised publicly. If they've made updates to that I'd be interested to know.
I hope to pick up my new bike right after Thanksgiving and will review the console control.
I'll try to take a few screenshots of the console and phone apps.
It will keep me busy after I recover from my food coma.
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Since there's no app on the iOS or Android store, at least that I could find with a cursory search, do they presumably load one on your phone during pickup?
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The only way to get non-released, unvetted apps onto an iPhone is to put them in the Apple TestFlight program. Which is really sketchy for a supposedly retail release. There is no way to search for apps that are in TestFlight, it's invitation only.
Changing modes in an app while riding is absolutely stupid. I change modes while riding on EVERY ride, multiple times.
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I change modes while riding on EVERY ride, multiple times.
What bike do you have? Are the mode and regen changes available via the handlebar or do you have to
go into a dash menu to select modes or regen? Can this be done while you are riding, or do you have to stop to change the acceleration and regen modes?
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I found a nice switch setup for controlling modes and such.
It will take a bit of wiring and a CAN bus interface, but I think it can be done. :P
(https://www.bellissimoto.com/image/catalog/Apex%20Racing%20Development/GENL7B_5.jpg)
I do hope everyone can see I am kidding.. ;D
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I change modes while riding on EVERY ride, multiple times.
What bike do you have? Are the mode and regen changes available via the handlebar or do you have to
go into a dash menu to select modes or regen? Can this be done while you are riding, or do you have to stop to change the acceleration and regen modes?
2023 SR/S. You press and hold the mode button for half a second, then toggle it left/right to choose one of five modes loaded on the bike, then press in to select. You can do this while riding, and I do multiple times every ride. You have to close the throttle to activate, for a split second.
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I believe you can do the traction control from that screen as well, and the next screen you can play with regen settings and some other things.
Aaron
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Hey Apollo, did you ever get your Strike R? If so, how is it? We're dying for videos!
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Hey Apollo, did you ever get your Strike R? If so, how is it? We're dying for videos!
No, I have received it yet. I went over to the shop and took a look at the bike, which was almost finished.
I asked about a couple of minor paint defects that they hadn't noticed. They immediately took the fairing off the bike and started the schedule for the paint fix, gloss coat, and repolish. They seemed nonplused about letting a paint defect go unnoticed, but happy I pointed it out before I came for pickup. They also asked me to review and let them know if I saw anything else that wasn't perfect.
It should be another week as the weather has cooled and the paint takes time to dry. I too am looking forward to the day I can start riding it. I have already picked up some bike stands and a camera mount. Like most people, I intend to make the bike mine with minor mods so it suits me best.
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I've been notified that my bike is ready for pickup! Yea!
I probably will fly over next Thursday, pick up the bike Friday morning, stop by the DMV, and ride home.
I will try to take some pictures and maybe a video. I don't do many YT videos and am always in awe of how well Sam's videos come out.
I have a video camera and mount, but I'm not sure how well it will attach on the first try.
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Does anyone know the name of the app he used to create the times and graphs at the end of the video?
I can confirm he was using a Dragy to collect the data shown in the graph at the end of the video.
https://dragymotorsports.com/ (https://dragymotorsports.com/)
Launching a lower power EV motorcycle is easy, just twist and go. Getting the best results from a high power bike like the Ego takes a bit more skill. The bike puts down so much torque applying it all can be tricky.
Getting a good launch on a EV is easier vs a ICE bike, there are less inputs to manage. Video does not show a good short of the dash to see what TC mode the bike in the video is set at however knowing the owner I suspect he has it turned off.
I believe a properly configured EGO+ with a experienced rider should be capable of a sub 10 second 1/4 mile pass. Optimizing tire pressure, suspension setup and gearing ratios make a big difference in ET.
My best time at the drag strip in Bakersfield, CA on the Ego+ RS was 10.337 @ 132.44 mph. That was with a 220lb rider (in gear) and an all stock bike, stock tires @ 35 PSI, no burnout and TC1 set.
I've always said a lightweight pro with a bike properly setup and a good burnout should break into the 9s. I'm kind of amazed honestly that no one has done it yet. My last run at the drag strip was over a year ago...
On the Dragy. I only use it for the pretty graph. My time slip from the drag strip has all the data on it that I care about. But in general, its amazing how a little device like the dragy is pretty darn close to my time skip numbers. Usually less than .1sec difference.
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The dragstrip is a thread hijack but... I see on tv top fuel and stuff like that is 1000 feet now. When you post your time and trap speed the reader may not be able to correctly assume.
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How did the pickup go, Apollo?? What's the bike like to ride long distances? We're dying to know how your trip home went!
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How did the pickup go, Apollo?? What's the bike like to ride long distances? We're dying to know how your trip home went!
Picked up the bike! Richard from Lightning went with me to the DMV for the California new vehicle inspection and registration. No issues. Received my Plate and Tags. Richard mounted them on the bike for me and I was off to San Diego. It was about a 400 mile (644km) ride, so I decided to break it in half. The nice folks at Lightning asked me to check in with them at each charging stop to ensure charging and batteries were behaving properly.
Everything went well except it started getting colder than I expected. At my last charging stop, it was 37F (3C) outside. I only brought my summer riding gloves so my fingers started complaining loudly.
The next morning I hopped on the bike and continued south. Immediately hit a big hill named the Grapevine just north of LA. The bike has so much power it was easy to look around and wonder why everyone was going so slow.
The next stop was in Pasadena for a charge. Grabbed some Starbucks and a muffin and headed back on the road. A fair bit of traffic for a Saturday afternoon, but I used the carpool lanes and managed an average of 60mph (96kph) most of the time. Once I got out of LA and started the trip down to San Diego, the speeds picked up to a 75mph (120kph) average.
Made it home just in time for Burgendy Carne Asada marinade tacos with avocados from our trees. A nice warm shower and time to relax. Made sure the bike was pugged in should I decide for a quick ride in our local hills come morning time.
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Glad you got it, the bike looks great. How was the charging speed?
Steve
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Congrats on the new bike! Looking forward to hearing more about your riding/charging experiences :)
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Glad you got it, the bike looks great. How was the charging speed?
Steve
Typical of bikes with these batteries. 20kw charging at 75amps.
The hardest part was people kept telling me I couldn't park in an EV charging spot.
Then they started wondering why I had the power cable connected.
One lady insisted to her family that I had a Kawasaki and had just removed the labels.
Fun stuff...
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So you didn’t opt for the LFCS? How much more would that add to the cost?
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Hey awesome!! Glad you made it. A few car drivers have asked me to move when I'm charging, too. I tell them it'll only be another 10min and they get really confused. It's like nobody knows electric motorcycles have been around for 10+ years!
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5 years of riding electric and I've never encountered anyone who told me I *couldn't* park in an EV spot. Yes, I get the, "is that electric?" question a lot but not once has anyone told me I couldn't park there. Anyone else experienced that?
In regards to the LFCS option it looks like, according to the site, that is an additional $8,000 because it also adds another 4kWh to the pack capacity.
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I only had someone ask me if I could move once, and that was because the way the chargers were situated, she could not get the cord to reach her car, and if I parked up on the edge she could get in there. she was polite about it so I absolutely was happy to move for her. Otherwise Ive had plenty of people stop and ask me the obvious questions, who makes it, how much range, do you like it etc.
Curious, those asking you to move, were they other electrics wanting to charge themselves, or Karens wanting to play world police?
Aaron
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I had a nastygram note on my Zero while it charged and I stepped in for an espresso. The woman was furious I took an electric CAR spot for a motorcycle. She apologized profusely when I showed her it was electric.
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I had a nastygram note on my Zero while it charged and I stepped in for an espresso. The woman was furious I took an electric CAR spot for a motorcycle. She apologized profusely when I showed her it was electric.
That is pretty much the effect I received. People see the bike and get unhappy I have taken a charging spot. Then they realize I am charging and they understand.
I think I only had an issue at one location. As I arrived there were three charging stations with one available. I pulled in and hooked up the charging cable. Soon after there was a line of four cars waiting in line to charge. Others arrived, noted the line and my motorcycle took a spot. At first glance they were not happy, but after a closer inspection saw the cable connected. But there is always one lady who wants to be first, asks me to move my motorcycle while it's charging so she can park her car in the charging spot, etc. I just whipped out my phone and took a picture. She immediately left.
Fun all around..
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I came out of a store to find that someone had parked NEXT to my bike in the same space, removed the cable, and plugged in. I left him a note on his window, fortunately I had been on a hardware run and had some adhesives in my shopping bag. On top of that, it was a dead charger anyway. I had left it connected so I wouldn't get angry people thinking I just abused the space.
In my area I don't recall ever seeing a totally full charger station at all. Plenty of dead ones though.
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I've discovered the PERFECT response to clowns who do what this one did to you:
Carry a bunch of these... you'll never know when you need 'em... ;)
https://www.amazon.com/stick-wheel-weights/s?k=stick+on+wheel+weights
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I've discovered the PERFECT response to clowns who do what this one did to you:
Carry a bunch of these... you'll never know when you need 'em... ;)
https://www.amazon.com/stick-wheel-weights/s?k=stick+on+wheel+weights
I am upset that I hadn't thought of that before. Make sure to put them on the front wheel.
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For non-destructive fun, a BB placed underneath a valve stem cap will cause a perpetual slow leak. If you glue it in, when the tire place checks the tire and finds nothing, they will put the problem right back on!
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I've discovered the PERFECT response to clowns who do what this one did to you:
Carry a bunch of these... you'll never know when you need 'em... ;)
https://www.amazon.com/stick-wheel-weights/s?k=stick+on+wheel+weights
I am upset that I hadn't thought of that before. Make sure to put them on the front wheel.
Of course!!
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How did the pickup go, Apollo?? What's the bike like to ride long distances? We're dying to know how your trip home went!
Picked up the bike! Richard from Lightning went with me to the DMV for the California new vehicle inspection and registration. No issues. Received my Plate and Tags. Richard mounted them on the bike for me and I was off to San Diego. It was about a 400 mile (644km) ride, so I decided to break it in half. The nice folks at Lightning asked me to check in with them at each charging stop to ensure charging and batteries were behaving properly.
Everything went well except it started getting colder than I expected. At my last charging stop, it was 37F (3C) outside. I only brought my summer riding gloves so my fingers started complaining loudly.
The next morning I hopped on the bike and continued south. Immediately hit a big hill named the Grapevine just north of LA. The bike has so much power it was easy to look around and wonder why everyone was going so slow.
The next stop was in Pasadena for a charge. Grabbed some Starbucks and a muffin and headed back on the road. A fair bit of traffic for a Saturday afternoon, but I used the carpool lanes and managed an average of 60mph (96kph) most of the time. Once I got out of LA and started the trip down to San Diego, the speeds picked up to a 75mph (120kph) average.
Made it home just in time for Burgendy Carne Asada marinade tacos with avocados from our trees. A nice warm shower and time to relax. Made sure the bike was pugged in should I decide for a quick ride in our local hills come morning time.
That's awesome and congratulations. Bike looks great.
What kind of range do you get?
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[quote
That's awesome and congratulations. Bike looks great.
What kind of range do you get?
The bike is working well and is lots of fun.
I have been having some issues with range when using heavy-throttle applications. (My Favorite). We ran the logs up to Lightning and they found that one of the cells is not performing properly under heavy loads.
Lightning has said, "We will make it right". Today a giant truck showed up at my door and it's being shipped back to Lighting for them to review the cell pack and repair the battery structure. Then they will test it and ship it back.
Although the bike has an issue, Lightning has been very eager and interested in ensuring the bike is working properly. Every phone call and every email has been answered right away.
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Wait so you got a new battery? Or you're bike-less while they figure out this problem??
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[quote
That's awesome and congratulations. Bike looks great.
What kind of range do you get?
The bike is working well and is lots of fun.
I have been having some issues with range when using heavy-throttle applications. (My Favorite). We ran the logs up to Lightning and they found that one of the cells is not performing properly under heavy loads.
Lightning has said, "We will make it right". Today a giant truck showed up at my door and it's being shipped back to Lighting for them to review the cell pack and repair the battery structure. Then they will test it and ship it back.
Although the bike has an issue, Lightning has been very eager and interested in ensuring the bike is working properly. Every phone call and every email has been answered right away.
VERY cool!
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Wait so you got a new battery? Or you're bike-less while they figure out this problem??
Sounds like he is bikeless while they figure it out.
The things that typically could cause this to happen are.
A. A balancing leg got disconnected somehow and that arm is not balancing properly.
B. The cell(s) had a manufacturers defect in it, and stuff needs to be replaced
C. The battery was old to begin with, and this would be normal wear showing. Much like the zero's have chronic battery problems as they age.
The proper fix, would be to just replace the entire battery with a new one, since this supposedly new bike, supposedly had a new battery in it to begin with, and is only a month or two old. This is so they can get his bike back to him in a timely manner. Then they can disassemble the old battery and do a thorough failure root cause analysis at a later time at their leisure, when it is not disrupting their customer, while his warranty runs out with the bike in the shop!
I have seen Energica do this a few times, just swap it out, or actually send a tech and battery, or whatever, out to the customer to fix it on site if possible. When a company goes to that extent to take care of their customer, it shows they are a Top Tier Corporation.
The short version:
He has a battery problem on a brand new bike.
Fine.. swap it out
Get him back on the road NOW, rather than weeks or months later.
Keep the customer happy.
Figure out WTF happened to the battery so it don't happen again.
It'll be interesting to watch the process. Hopefully they get him taken care of in a timely manner, especially since the weather is heading towards nicer times to be riding !!
Aaron
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Sounds like he is bikeless while they figure it out.
Yes, I am Lightning-less while the issue is resolved. Fortunately for me, I have other toys to keep me busy. My Karts and my Ohvale GP-2. Both are track toys. It's been a river of water coming from the sky this last week so missing the bike won't be a big issue. I didn't bring up the thought of a loaner bike as it would be a liability challenge for everyone. I can easily live without the bike while it's getting repaired. I asked them to not worry about downtime for me, it would be better to keep it an extra week and work the bike hard. I am not in a hurry.
Lightning has stated on the phone they plan on swapping out the battery pack and doing diagnostics to find out why the original pack had a bad cell. They also mentioned they are going to do a filmed dyno run to ensure the bike is putting out good power and mileage under heavy load.
Realistically I think they are doing pretty much everything I can expect. Remote diagnostics, eager to service, shipping back and forth, repair, and proof the repair has fixed my issues before returning the bike to me.
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Just a random factoid because so many people don't know this. Loaner and rental bikes are not a liability problem at all, at least with Progressive and Allstate. I've talked to both and they fully cover any rental, even P2P rentals, and any loaners.
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This is all well and good when you live near the factory where they're made... but without any kind of dealership presence, it doesn't do the rest of the world much good. Electric bikes may not require as much maintenance as their ICE brethren, but when they DO need service, they need trained specialists and those are a rare breed at the moment.
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Sounds like an occupation begging for people to come to it, good money maker, get in early. People may be kicking and screaming now but it appears that the world IS eventually going to transfer to electric, just like it went from Horse and Buggy to ICE, against their kicking and screaming.
It's not that exotic of a field. Know how to use a 457, 2020, multimeter, maybe a hart communicator or brand specific, a bit of basic IP protocol. Something they would teach in a week or so long class I'd assume. First year electronics student should pick this up easily. Then there's just basic electricity and mechanics.
Aaron
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"Kicking and screaming" is right. Last year, I needed to get two new tires mounted on my Zero. A friend recommended a local mechanic but he turned out to be a real asshole. As soon as he heard it was a Zero, he said "I don't want no electric bike in my shop!" I told him the tires have NOTHING to do with the power plant but he was adamant. What an IDIOT. Finally did find a local mechanic who was more than happy to do the job for me. Needless to say, he got a GLOWING review on both Google and Yelp from me. The other clown? Not so much...
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Jaime you find those assholes everywhere. Just have to smile at them and go elsewhere, it's not worth the high blood pressure and sour stomach to deal with them.
There are plenty of regular / real shops that are more than happy to work on your bike. I had to shop around for tires, well, the first time was an emergency and was basically told, as long as it's not something that is manufacturer specific to your bike, we are more than happy to fix it, BUT they also cautioned me, on my end to make sure it would not void a warranty, which of course, tires would not.
They also were zero dealers, but were getting out of it because Zero was not supporting them very well and they got tired of the warranty work and waiting forever to get paid for it. I tried my hardest to talk them into becoming an Energica dealer, because I really would LOVE having one here in Jax, but they were under a non compete clause with zero still, they could not sell another brand of E bike, and the contract was still going so they couldn't, at least that is what the manager told me when I was talking to him about my bike.
Was he pissy because it was electric or because it was not made in his country? Ive seen both types of tards.
Aaron
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That doesn't make sense. My Zero dealership in Manhattan also carries Energica.
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Same with Fulgora in Southern CA. Maybe they have to ask ahead of time?
I just realized I didn't re-check the belt after having my rear tire replaced. (550 miles, got a large screw in it, sigh.)
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That doesn't make sense. My Zero dealership in Manhattan also carries Energica.
Oh I agree with you on that, even at high incompetence corporate VP levels, why would you want to limit your income possibilities like that? I think it may have been zero who said that, or they had some sort of exclusive rights with the company to be the only bike or something. I was not interested in trying to call the guy out or really worry about it at the time. Wasn't looking to buy a new bike, just a new tire.
Aaron
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Lightning has said, "We will make it right". Today a giant truck showed up at my door and it's being shipped back to Lighting for them to review the cell pack and repair the battery structure. Then they will test it and ship it back.
Was it a HaulBikes truck, and did they make the delivery on Monday? When I took delivery of my new Energica the driver was telling me he'd just dropped off a Lightning in Hollister.
Small world, hope you're reunited with your Strike again soon.
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Was it a HaulBikes truck, and did they make the delivery on Monday? When I took delivery of my new Energica the driver was telling me he'd just dropped off a Lightning in Hollister.
Small world, hope you're reunited with your Strike again soon.
I would suspect it was. Lightning has already contacted me to review the initial findings and we are discussing the appropriate fixes.
I also asked for some "minor changes" that are not offered by Lightning but may be possible.
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What is there to discuss about the appropriate fixes?
If it's under warranty they should fix it, plain and simple.
What ARE these appropriate fixes they are discussing, that needs a long thought out thorough discussion?
Since the bike is so new, if it's that broke ass already they should probably just give you a new one, instead of making you wait months if that's what the hold up is for a battery or something, or at least a loaner until then.
Aaron
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What ARE these appropriate fixes they are discussing, that needs a long thought out thorough discussion?
Since the bike is so new, if it's that broke ass already they should probably just give you a new one, instead of making you wait months if that's what the hold up is for a battery or something, or at least a loaner until then.
Aaron
The log files from the bike show that one of the cell packs is not reporting for duty when under heavy load. Cruzing down the street or freeway things seem fine. Under heavy load one of the cells seems to break down much earlier than the rest and go resistive. This causes total milage available to go down abruptly.
Lightning had a tech drive down 8 hours to my home to inspect the bike. We drove it normally and at full throttle. (my favorite). It works well, but it looks like a cell is bad.
I asked for some different gearing, a USB port near the dash, the dash to be mounted at a different angle, and a few other minor things. Nothing that would require major reengineering.
Naturally, I want a NACS charging port and an extra 100 HP. But Lighting seems to be doing its best to fix the issues.
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If you end up going back to HQ to pick it up you might considering heading North a bit and testing the bike out at the Magic Dock Supercharger in Scotts Valley to test for compatibility. Energica, for example, had to update their firmware to make it interface correctly with Tesla and I've not heard anything from LiveWire owners if they've checked either.
https://www.plugshare.com/map/tesla-ccs-locations
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If you end up going back to HQ to pick it up you might consider heading North a bit and testing the bike out at the Magic Dock Supercharger in Scotts Valley to test for compatibility.
https://www.plugshare.com/map/tesla-ccs-locations
This was very important for me when before I originally picked up the bike. Lightning mentioned they have employees that live up past that area and check in once every couple of weeks to ensure their bikes work with the Magic Dock. They said they have never had an issue and are very happy it worked on the first try.
I checked the map and there are about three Magic Dock charging stations in the western US. I don't hear much about new MD installs. I think Magic Dock is a temporary solution that will probably go away. Tesla is now going to provide supercharger support for all licensed manufacturers. As Ford/GM are the bigger boys on the block, EV Bike manufacture are at the bottom of the pile for support from Tesla Licensing.
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This was very important for me when before I originally picked up the bike. Lightning mentioned they have employees that live up past that area and check in once every couple of weeks to ensure their bikes work with the Magic Dock. They said they have never had an issue and are very happy it worked on the first try.
I checked the map and there are about three Magic Dock charging stations in the western US. I don't hear much about new MD installs. I think Magic Dock is a temporary solution that will probably go away. Tesla is now going to provide supercharger support for all licensed manufacturers. As Ford/GM are the bigger boys on the block, EV Bike manufacture are at the bottom of the pile for support from Tesla Licensing.
Just get yourself one of these thingies (https://a2zevshop.com/) and use any of the V3 & V4 (250 KW) Tesla Superchargers.
Must use the Tesla App and then go to "charge my non-Tesla". A little tricky to find, but download the app and then I can explain how to get there.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The point is not about being Magic Dock compliant, but being SuperCharger compliant. And that is something one would initially test at the Magic Dock pending the opening of the future SC network. But if it already works then good; that's the important bit.
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I am pretty sure that Energica and other companies have already reached out to Tesla trying to score deals on using their charger network.
As many of you have mentioned, the other companies, their shit is always broken it seems, but Tesla's seem to be kept in a good state of repair. So with that, go with the winner and do what needs to be done to make the bikes compatible.
Id still want to see an adapter fairly cheap so you can use both a tesla and a ccs charger so no matter which is available, the Energica can do it.
Aaron
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The point is not about being Magic Dock compliant, but being SuperCharger compliant. And that is something one would initially test at the Magic Dock pending the opening of the future SC network. But if it already works then good; that's the important bit.
I have not yet used my Tesla Supercharger to CS1 adapter and neither of my bikes have the FW update (but both soon will),
Anyway, I will test my adapter on a V4 Tesla Supercharger (that has no Magic Dock) in Sparks, NV (https://www.plugshare.com/location/475865) in the next day or two. I only expect an 8 KW charge until I get the update. But I will soon report here what happens.
Notice how this location says "For Tesla Drivers only". I will have Plugshare remove that after I prove I can charge my Energica there.
I will soon have both my Enegicas updated to the new FW and test them again on the same Tesla SC.
The weather will soon be improving over the summit so I can get my Experia to A&S cycles in Roseville. The Experia is still in Reno which means I need to ride over 7,240' Donner Summit.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Until Tesla opens their network up you will not be able to use a SuperCharger with a vehicle not on the approved list. And right now that's Tesla and Ford. The stations check the VIN of what's attempting to charge and if it's not the list you cannot use it until Tesla says you can.
Yes, the Energica bikes are fully compliant with their standards, but no motorcycle brand has been given approval to use anything outside of Magic Dock stations. It will error out and say something like "invalid vehicle" on your app.
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Until Tesla opens their network up you will not be able to use a SuperCharger with a vehicle not on the approved list. And right now that's Tesla and Ford. The stations check the VIN of what's attempting to charge and if it's not the list you cannot use it until Tesla says you can.
Yes, the Energica bikes are fully compliant with their standards, but no motorcycle brand has been given approval to use anything outside of Magic Dock stations. It will error out and say something like "invalid vehicle" on your app.
I thought that was only for the "Plug & Play". Anyway, I will try to activate it from my Tesla account just as I did with the Magic Dock in Placerville. I will post here what the exact error I get, as I will try it anyway. I just hope it doesn't try to charge my Experia at 250 KW! ;)
But if they are going to later read the VIN from Energica, I assume even Energicas will then be plug & charge, just as with Fords & Teslas. That could be worth waiting for. But with Energica, a long wait has been the norm lately. My Experia was promised last September, came in Feb of the year after. And I am still waiting for my Experia Centerstand for more than a year. It may take a few years for Energica to give Tesla a list of VINS. Or perhaps Tesla will let us send in our own VINs.
-Don- Reno, NV
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It's not going to work until Tesla flips the switch. It is entirely in their court. Energica is fully compliant and ready.
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Of course Tesla is going to want YOU to provide the VIN. It's not Energica's job to provide them the vin for every vehicle sold as I am sure there are probably very few tesla stations in certain parts of the world. When it comes time to pay for the charge, it will be YOU that pays, not Energica, so they will need YOUR info. How would Energica know if a private sale was made and who owns the thing now?
They made themselves fully compliant with the latest update, and are just waiting for Tesla to turn it on basically at this point. This does not mean that protocols won't change further for any or even all vehicles in the near future as the universal charging rolls out and they may find they need some extra controls in the protocol.
As for over charging your vehicle, it won't happen, that's why they talk to each other, if they do not agree, then the charge does not happen.
Aaron
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It's not going to work until Tesla flips the switch. It is entirely in their court. Energica is fully compliant and ready.
Any guesses of when "Tesla will flip the switch"?
I don't think either of my Energicas are "fully" compliant until I get the FW update which should be fairly soon now that I-80 looks clear enough for motorcycles going over the summit.
I hear I will get around three times the charge rate (8 KW) at Tesla Superchargers after the FW update(24kw).
-Don- Reno, NV
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Any guesses of when "Tesla will flip the switch"?
Sometime between now and 100 years from now is my best estimate.
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Any guesses of when "Tesla will flip the switch"?
Sometime between now and 100 years from now is my best estimate.
Unless he has a 99 year mortgage / lease on his factory so it'll have to be in 99 years, give or take a decade or two.
What would be nice is if he just puts out the adapter thingie and just says ok, for all of you who have CCS1, buy the adapter, sign up with us, give us your vin and you have an account. Pay as you charge, or however he plans on doing this.
I wonder if you have a Tesla vehicle already if he'd let you charge other CCS stuff there as well w/o any prior agreements between him and the manu? I can understand early on why he'd want some sort of agreement with say Ford, to get them to pay for part of the cost of putting in the adaptations etc, but after that, the more people that can use his product the better you'd think?
He just needs to be careful so that the government in their efforts to continue hating on him, don't try to cry Monopoly and steal the network or sue him for it or some other stupid dim crap.
I know he hates motorcycles for whatever reason but man that would be sweet if he did end up doing one, just to get some support for the rest of the bikes out there.
Aaron
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Any guesses of when "Tesla will flip the switch"?
Sometime between now and 100 years from now is my best estimate.
Well, then it could just work by the time I test it. Which could be tomorrow.
I will let you know what happens. But I do expect the error.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I would definitely be surprised if it started working before they made an announcement.
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Unless it's a 'Tesla Fault' ie them turning on the charger for 'their' customer error, it actually might work Morgan, 43 corrected a lot of the timing issues with the CCS.
The only quirk I have seen with it is, if you Do have an error, like a timeout, because you thought you had the plug all the way down and it wasnt, even if you correct it almost immediately, that charge attempt probably will NOT initiate properly, and you are better off just cycling power on the bike and just resetting everything and going again fresh, with a GOOD seating of the plug and no errors floating around in memory of either the charger or bike.
Aaron
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Again, Daren in San Diego tested this. When connecting to the station it reads the VIN. Presumably there is a check run against Tesla's internal database of approved VINs/manufacturers and if that check fails the charge session fails. So when Daren started a charge session with his Tesla app and plugged in his v43 firmware Ego, the station ran the check. It rejected the bike.
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Again, Daren in San Diego tested this. When connecting to the station it reads the VIN. Presumably there is a check run against Tesla's internal database of approved VINs/manufacturers and if that check fails the charge session fails. So when Daren started a charge session with his Tesla app and plugged in his v43 firmware Ego, the station ran the check. It rejected the bike.
I just got back from the V4 Tesla Supercharger in Sparks, NV
It did nothing at all when I tried to charge. Same as not being connected. And the "Charge your non-Tesla" in my Tesla app said the closest Tesla Supercharger I could use was in Placerville, CA, which is 125 miles/201 KM from Reno. IOW, the one with the Magic Dock that I have used before.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Exactly as I expected. Oh well, at least we know for certain.
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There is a Tesla charging station out here by the supermarket that has like 8 or 10 charging stations at it, people pull up and charge while hanging at the coffee shop right behind it.
How do I know if it's a magic dock station or not? I checked one or two of the chargers and they are tesla cables, but I didn't check all of them. Is there a quick way to tell, like it has 2 cables hanging off it or something?
Aaron
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Exactly as I expected. Oh well, at least we know for certain.
I assume it will now work on Fords, but nothing else that is non-Tesla.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Exactly as I expected. Oh well, at least we know for certain.
I assume it will now work on Fords, but nothing else that is non-Tesla.
-Don- Reno, NVF
I read an article the other day which said that the Ford/Tesla system is not quite ready to go. Ford needs to send out a Ford/Tesla adapter device to Ford EV owners before Ford EVs can work at certain (but not all) Tesla Superchargers.
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I read an article the other day which said that the Ford/Tesla system is not quite ready to go. Ford needs to send out a Ford/Tesla adapter device to Ford EV owners before Ford EVs can work at certain (but not all) Tesla Superchargers.
Pre 2025 models need the adapter. The same one I have, but that is NOT the issue with Ford. The Fords need an OTA update and not all of them have received the update. For now, some Fords will work (with the adpater) and some will not.
But perhaps by now all the Fords have received the update. So perhaps they all work by now.
BTW, I changed the charging ECU in my 2018 Tesla M3 so I could also charge it with CCS--with and adapter. kinda the opposite from the Ford issue. But to make it work, I had to go into the "Service Mode" (which Tesla owners are not even supposed to know about) and force a new OTA update before it would work for CCS. Likewise, the Fords need an update to use Tesla Superchargers.
-Don- Reno, NV
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before Ford EVs can work at certain (but not all) Tesla Superchargers.
They should all work on V3 and V4 Tesla Superchargers. But NOT on the countless V2s still out there, which are probably most Tesla SCs for now.
When/if we can charge our CCS motorcycles on Tesla SCs. we will also have that same issue. Must be V3 or V4 to be CCS compatible. V2s are NOT CCS compatible. Neither are V1s (but I don't think any of the V1 exist these days).
BTW, it easy to tell the V4s by looking at them. They are solid, no hole in the middle of the charger.
The V2's are 150 KW. The V3's are 250KW. That's how you tell the difference between V2 and V3, look at their max rating.
Or perhaps a better way to remember---the Tesla SCs must be 250KW or better to work for CCS-- even for a 20 KW charge.
-Don- Reno, NV
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How do I know if it's a magic dock station or not?
Aaron
The easiest way is to go the Tesla App, and look at the map under the "Charge Your EV" find a charger button. The map will show little grey icons for destination chargers you can use (with a Tesla Tap or similar) and red lightning bolts for superchargers with magic docks. Thats how it is for me, I have no tesla so the app knows I can only use Magic Dock equipped stalls.
Alternatively you can actually see the big black plastic hump that is the magic dock where the NACS plug is held in the SC.
You can also go to Plugshare, toggle all networks off but Tesla and only select CCS as the plug.
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I do use plugshare, and it did show the one by me, but they did not work, they are all the tesla connectors.
I am picking up some steaks to grill out thursday night with my buddies at the power plant for our monthly get together and gossip thingie, so I'll be right by it so can take a better look at it and see if there are any that have diff plugs on them.
Last time i really just glanced at them but not really looked hard. Maybe one or two of them are different, I don't know yet
Aaron
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There's also this...
See here. (https://www.plugshare.com/map/tesla-ccs-locations)
-Don- Reno, NV
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There's also this...
Yeah, they added a few more since the last time I checked, such as the new one in Los Gatos.
But not even one in the entire state of NV as well as several others.
-Don- Auburn, CA