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[BigPoppa]

I feel like this topic has been beat to death but I'll still check the thread...popcorn in hand. 

[NEW2elec]

Winner to face Logan Paul for the internet championship of the world.

[mistasam]

[Fran K]

I feel like this topic has been beat to death but I'll still check the thread...popcorn in hand. 

If the topic is the title here pertaining to the LS218 things kind of got derailed.

There have been a few at least links put up on here to articles that referenced the LS218 as something that has been around for a while.  I spent perhaps 10 minutes searching and the ones I found were carefully worded so that if the premise here in the title is correct they would not have lied.

I can put up a certificate of origion for a KTM freeride.  How does it work in California do you get the certificate of origion and go to motor vehicle pay the sales tax and then get the title in the mail?  Perhaps if someone put a copy of the certificate of origion?  Incidentally my bike is not for highway use in the USA and the sae horsepower number is vacant and the gvwr says cc I guess closed course.

[Crissa]

Generally, posting documents like that on the internet is a bad idea.

-Crissa

[mistasam]

Yeah, most people even blur their license plates in photos.

I've talked to 3 people who own and ride LS218s (one was hit by a car and I saw his bike at the shop, so I can confirm that).  His facebook account is also private, so all the photos he shared of his bike were only to friends.  That could be the case with other owners.  No one knows how many were sold or who they were sold to, but it's the same with a lot of expensive, boutique bikes.

Sarolea sold around 20 of their electric superbikes.  But to who?  We may never know, but it doesn't mean they're lying.

[flattetyre]

The idea of this thread is to come up with a way for any of us to independently verify whether Lightning actually sold LS-218s to a regular consumer, ideally without going to California. I have faith that there is likely a solution to this problem if Lightning actually has sold LS-218s to regular consumers.

Re impartiality of the electric motovlogger, judge for yourself: we're talking a guy who we KNOW is courted by the company to the extent that the CEO goes on a ride with him, he has a deposit on an (undelivered) bike, and even moderates the Facebook owners group for Lightning. Ask yourself if such a person has a conflict of interest. Yeah, uh, in what universe DOESN'T he have a conflict of interest?

Re the bikes themselves, they are unequivocally badass and nobody claimed otherwise although apparently the Strikes so far allegedly delivered are not completely finished, which is a shame. Anyway, the question here isn't whether the bikes are awesome (they are) the question is whether the company is being honest. There is cause for great skepticism on this last point.

[mistasam]

Lightning is a super small team and production has been slow over the years, so the number of people who actually own these bikes probably isn't very high.  If there's an online database for registered vehicles, maybe you can search there.  Does that kinda thing exist in the US?  A VIN look-up website or something?

Re: me being a shill, you're spot on.  Lightning paid me so much money to shoot those youtube videos that I'm going to buy all of you guys Lightnings.  That way you can all be owners.  And then I can question whether or not you really are owners  It's a genius plan, I know.

[MVetter]

You can give mine to someone else; it's a legit fire hazard.

[togo]

> Re the bikes themselves, they are unequivocally badass ...

Umm. Anybody not connected to the company verified this?



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[togo]

> ... If there's an online database for registered vehicles, maybe you can search there.  Does that kinda thing exist in the US?  A VIN look-up website or something?

Bloomberg did it for Tesla Model 3...

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/tesla-model-3-vin-tracker/



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[Crissa]

It's illegal in the state to put the vin database information from California online.

So no,

-Crissa

[SBK74]

Sarolea sold around 20 of their electric superbikes.  But to who?  We may never know, but it doesn't mean they're lying.

In all press releases they talk about producing 20 N60 bikes, not having actually sold them.  In the Dutch registration I cannot find any recent Sarolea, but the bikes might not have been sold in NL. Price is 70k euro ex VAT.

Edit:
Makes me wonder why Lightning wanted to produce an affordable bike so badly; shouldn't they have stayed at the higher side of the market?

[wavelet]

> ... If there's an online database for registered vehicles, maybe you can search there.  Does that kinda thing exist in the US?  A VIN look-up website or something?

Bloomberg did it for Tesla Model 3...

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/tesla-model-3-vin-tracker/

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Not quite. What Bloomberg did was collate information provided by owners -- they gave the VINs of the cars they bought & the dates, where they lived etc, which given production of many thousands allowed Bloomberg's tracker to estimate what the total production was, and when Tesla was shipping cars to which region and how many.

That's not relevant when you don't have any actual numbers to infer ranges from (and a manufacturer doesn't necessarily use continuous sequences -- though it's a reasonable conclusion if analysis of numerous VINs yields a lot of them).

Given the actual number of Lightning bikes is certainly small, whatever it is, you couldn't infer much even if you had VINs for several bikes.

There is a Federal database of VIN numbers, but AFAICS it only allows retrieving the record for a specific known VIN, to get recall info for that vehicle.

 I have been able to find the WMI (the manufacturer code, characters #1-#3 of the VIN), or at least one of them assigned to lightning. it's "57S" according to this 2013 letter (PDF) from the SAE (the authority that allocates WMIs) to Lightning;
however, I don't think it's very useful in itself.
AFAIK, a manufacturer doesn't report to any Federal or state authority how many vehicles it produced, certainly not an itemized list of their VIN numbers(*);
in fact, since recall notices usually provide the starting/ending VIN for the affected vehicles, I've seen automotive articles estimate how many of a vehicle model (or sub-model) were made based on that.

(*)If it's a public company, it may report total quantities in financial reports, but that doesn't apply to Lightning.

[wavelet]

The idea of this thread is to come up with a way for any of us to independently verify whether Lightning actually sold LS-218s to a regular consumer, ideally without going to California. I have faith that there is likely a solution to this problem if Lightning actually has sold LS-218s to regular consumers.

Did you bother searching out and reading the couple of hundreds or so posts/comments on this subject across this and many other forums, m/c & EV blogs, FB pages, etc., pretty much everywhere that covered Lightning online and had an option to comment?
If not, please do so before continuing to post.

• Everything that you've brought up has been brought up before' multiple times. Some of it 4-5 years ago.
• Most people who commented do agree that's it quite odd that there haven't been virtually any first ride reports / owner's perspective stories / related forum posts (e.g., what aftermarket farkle of type xyzzy fits the LS-218 or Strike) on either the LS-218 or the Strike.
• Some think it's so odd that it's highly unlikely Lightning has actually delivered production Strikes, and/or LS-218s, or any production bikes at all(*)
• There's no easy way to know 100% for sure, unless all the buyers come forward and detail their specific  circumstances.
• It also depends on your definition of a regular consumer & production bike.
  The case can also easily be made that noone who buys a Rimac is a regular consumer

All that said, why do you care?
If you're interested in the LS-218 specifically, flying to California to look into it and the company in person costs little compared to the cost of the bike & maintaining it (with no known dealer or service facility outside the factory).

Are you trying to form an opinion about whether you can in general buy a series-produced bike from them (maybe the Strike is more likely, given the cost) as you would from Honda? Save your effort, it's obvious that for all intents and purposes you can't currently. You shouldn't think of them in those terms at all, no matter what ignorant "journalists" and bloggers who regurgitate press releases write.
They're a tiny startup, not an experienced manufacturer.

(*)Personally, I'm in this last group.