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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Killroy on November 22, 2016, 04:02:59 AM
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I had to replace regular charge cord because the plastic on the plug around the terminals started to deform and crack from too much arcing.
At work I share a charge cord with 2 other Zeros and it gets used every work day. It about a year old and I know its rated for our Zeros on-board. It is run on a long extension cord that is also rated for our power, FYI.
I use to think the problem was moisture in the terminals, but now we have a new cord and I am seeing and hearing evidence of arcing on the new plug when it is dry. I notice it when plunging in, not pulling out.
The GFCI holds up fine.
Is it a issue with the charger? Or is that just the way it is for our on-board charger?
My coworker has the FX and he said he is not experiencing the problem.
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Try spraying contact cleaner on the power inlet. Resistance there is what can overheat your cord plug.
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Also plug in the bike before the wall socket.
There are 3 Zero riders at your workplace? Cool!
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If you can get connected to a 240-volt connection instead, that would help too. Double the voltage, half the current, and therefore much less heat during charging. Wouldn't help the initial inrush arc on connection though.
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Also plug in the bike before the wall socket.
I have been trying that. It works better, but I still think there is a little arcing when I plug in the other side of the cord to the extension.
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Try spraying contact cleaner on the power inlet. Resistance there is what can overheat your cord plug.
I will try that. It can't hurt.
I don't think it is a heat build up issue though.
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Whenever I connect my 12V motorcycle/car battery chargers to my 120V wall outlet I get a spark and a "snap". However, I haven't noticed that with my Zero's charger. What I do with my Zero is to leave my charger cord connected to my wall outlet and plug in the charger cord at the frame connection when I want to charge the battery pack. If there is a spark, I don't see or hear it. :)
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I do hear it on mine if I do exactly what you do. So I do the opposite - plug the Zero end, then plug in the wall.
I've read/seen on YouTube about another person with a '13 who's been going through power cords at an unreasonable rate due to arching and burning at the Zero socket at the bike. Maybe the contacts in the bike are undersized or something like that and don't make good contact with the power cord?
Whenever I connect my 12V motorcycle/car battery chargers to my 120V wall outlet I get a spark and a "snap". However, I haven't noticed that with my Zero's charger. What I do with my Zero is to leave my charger cord connected to my wall outlet and plug in the charger cord at the frame connection when I want to charge the battery pack. If there is a spark, I don't see or hear it. :)
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Looks like there is a issue with the terminals on my Zero and its going to be warranty replaced tomorrow. ;D ;D ;D
I'm local to Zero Customer Service at their headquarters in Scotts Valley and they were available today to see my SR.
Nicolas at Zero said that popping or arcing is OK, but one terminal was burnt from overheating during charging because a bad/high resistance harness to terminal connection.
He also replace my power cord.
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I plug the charge cord into the Zero first and afterwards the wall socket.
I figure, if there's going to be damage, I prefer it on the wall socket than on the bike itself.
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Well there is another reason that I plug the charger cord into the side of the bike instead of the wall outlet. My bike is parked in front of the wall and I have to lean over it and extend my arm to reach the wall outlet. Leading to the possibility of me loosing my balance and falling on to the Zero, possibly pushing it forward and off of the side stand. (It did happen once a couple of years ago. :o ) Anyway, so far I have charged my Zero hundreds of times by plugging the cord into the bike's terminal last without any problems occurring.
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I think unplugging while in the middle of full-current charging (when the current is highest) might be worse than plugging at the beginning of a charge (when the current is smaller). Since many unplug only after charging has completed, probably a non-issue for them. I often unplug at partial charge and I think it is safer for the bike and cord to do it at the outlet in the long run.
The other aspect is a quick and decisive motion to connect and disconnect. Not a slow and careful approach that would let the arching linger longer than necessary ...
The potential damage due to the arching is slow and cumulative - it will happen over many charge cycles. Will it ever get bad enough to notice? If you are lucky enough - no, it won't get bad enough to cause overheating or a bad connection. But if the contacts are already weak for some other reason, it might happen faster.
Now if that rubber plug on the bike would somehow remind me to put it back over the charge port on the bike after charging, it would be ideal ;) I keep forgetting it off and dangling after a charge, leaving the port exposed while I ride...
Well there is another reason that I plug the charger cord into the side of the bike instead of the wall outlet. My bike is parked in front of the wall and I have to lean over it and extend my arm to reach the wall outlet. Leading to the possibility of me loosing my balance and falling on to the Zero, possibly pushing it forward and off of the side stand. (It did happen once a couple of years ago. :o ) Anyway, so far I have charged my Zero hundreds of times by plugging the cord into the bike's terminal last without any problems occurring.
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I went home expecting my home charge cord to be fried, but it looks brand new. That's weird.
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The manual states to plug and unplug from the wall, and that is what I have done for 7000mi+ on my 2016 DSR. However my charge cord melted on the bike side. The problem was noted and the bike is in for clean-up of some shoddy earlier warranty work. My guess is this kind of plug is not rated for the heat of a higher resistance electrical contact connection, and the contacts are not self-cleaning, so it is susceptible to failure due to heat.
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I went home to see how my power cord at home was doing because my guess was that it was fried too, but it was not!
It looked brand new. 8)
Looks like not all charge cords are created equal.
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Now if that rubber plug on the bike would somehow remind me to put it back over the charge port on the bike after charging, it would be ideal ;) I keep forgetting it off and dangling after a charge, leaving the port exposed while I ride...
It took me a while to figure out that it was my fault. At first I thought someone was messing with my bike while it was parked. ::)
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Hey, I'm not alone on this! 8)
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At work I share a charge cord with 2 other Zeros and it gets used every work day. It about a year old and I know its rated for our Zeros on-board. It is run on a long extension cord that is also rated for our power, FYI.
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My coworker has the FX and he said he is not experiencing the problem.
Even though the extension cord is "rated" for the power, it has resistance and makes the effective voltage the bike sees lower.
So the bike will pull additional current. That creates additional heat. it may be just enough to soften and wear the connector over time.
The FX wont see this problem as they use a charger half the size of the S models.
out of curiosity, how long is the cord? what gauge is the wire in it?
if you have a kill-a-watt or other meter, its probably worth the effort to see what the bike sees for voltage/current.
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The Zero app also reports the amperage pulled. On my '15 SR it fluctuates between 11-13A usually during peak charging power. I don't recall what the Killawatt measures for current, but for voltage I usually get 118V or so (down from the 120 or so without load).
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At work I share a charge cord with 2 other Zeros and it gets used every work day. It about a year old and I know its rated for our Zeros on-board. It is run on a long extension cord that is also rated for our power, FYI.
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My coworker has the FX and he said he is not experiencing the problem.
Even though the extension cord is "rated" for the power, it has resistance and makes the effective voltage the bike sees lower.
So the bike will pull additional current. That creates additional heat. it may be just enough to soften and wear the connector over time.
The FX wont see this problem as they use a charger half the size of the S models.
out of curiosity, how long is the cord? what gauge is the wire in it?
if you have a kill-a-watt or other meter, its probably worth the effort to see what the bike sees for voltage/current.
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At work I share a charge cord with 2 other Zeros and it gets used every work day. It about a year old and I know its rated for our Zeros on-board. It is run on a long extension cord that is also rated for our power, FYI.
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My coworker has the FX and he said he is not experiencing the problem.
Even though the extension cord is "rated" for the power, it has resistance and makes the effective voltage the bike sees lower.
So the bike will pull additional current. That creates additional heat. it may be just enough to soften and wear the connector over time.
The FX wont see this problem as they use a charger half the size of the S models.
out of curiosity, how long is the cord? what gauge is the wire in it?
if you have a kill-a-watt or other meter, its probably worth the effort to see what the bike sees for voltage/current.
Its 25 ft and 12 AWG, which should be plenty thick after a glance online.
A online voltage drop calculator says that the voltage would be about 1 volt. Does that sound right?
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25 ft and 12 awg should be ok. If anyone else is thinking of getting an extension cord, Harbor freight has a 10 awg 25 foot cord for about $40 which can let you have an extra level of comfort
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-Ft-x-10-Gauge-Triple-Tap-Extension-Cord-61993.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/25-Ft-x-10-Gauge-Triple-Tap-Extension-Cord-61993.html)
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The Zero app also reports the amperage pulled. On my '15 SR it fluctuates between 11-13A usually during peak charging power. I don't recall what the Killawatt measures for current, but for voltage I usually get 118V or so (down from the 120 or so without load).
Thats the power pulled at the bike.
What you want measured is the power draw from the outlet, so you include the charging cable and wire connections.
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Yup, the "current" at the bike as reported by the app. If I remember, the current at the wall (my KillAWatt) was close to 15A at close to 120V, something like 1600-1700W. As much as a hair drier these days, nothing spectacular and should not be "frying" cords...
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Yup, the "current" at the bike as reported by the app. If I remember, the current at the wall (my KillAWatt) was close to 15A at close to 120V, something like 1600-1700W. As much as a hair drier these days, nothing spectacular and should not be "frying" cords...
You say that, but you should see my collection of nicely browned beige electrical connections.. including one kill-a-watt.
15A for a hair dryer is no problem... (although it should really be 12A or so)
15A for a prolonged period of time will destroy cheaper connectors.
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Yup, the "current" at the bike as reported by the app. If I remember, the current at the wall (my KillAWatt) was close to 15A at close to 120V, something like 1600-1700W. As much as a hair drier these days, nothing spectacular and should not be "frying" cords...
I have never seen a draw of more than 1300 watts at the wall as shown on my KillAWatt meter from my 2014 S when it is charging from my 125 volt outlet.
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Yup, the "current" at the bike as reported by the app. If I remember, the current at the wall (my KillAWatt) was close to 15A at close to 120V, something like 1600-1700W. As much as a hair drier these days, nothing spectacular and should not be "frying" cords...
If it was 15 amps, then anyone using a 25 foot extension cord should not be able to charge on the typical 15 amp NEMA 5-15 outlet.
The breakers would trip every time.
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Yup, the "current" at the bike as reported by the app. If I remember, the current at the wall (my KillAWatt) was close to 15A at close to 120V, something like 1600-1700W. As much as a hair drier these days, nothing spectacular and should not be "frying" cords...
If it was 15 amps, then anyone using a 25 foot extension cord should not be able to charge on the typical 15 amp NEMA 5-15 outlet.
The breakers would trip every time.
that would be true if breakers were accurate..
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Zero SR '15 draws 12.5A at the wall at 119.2V charging (120.5V at the same outlet without the bike). Factory cord, no extension. Right now, my bike shows 100% charge, after having sat unplugged and unused for a week. So I will re-check again when I get a chance to ride it and bring the charge down. But as you probably have noticed, before it throttles down the charge power near full charge, it takes some time at full power, so I think the numbers here are max or near max.
Hair drier (1875w written in bold letters on its side): draws 13.09A at 118.9V)
Yup, the "current" at the bike as reported by the app. If I remember, the current at the wall (my KillAWatt) was close to 15A at close to 120V, something like 1600-1700W. As much as a hair drier these days, nothing spectacular and should not be "frying" cords...
If it was 15 amps, then anyone using a 25 foot extension cord should not be able to charge on the typical 15 amp NEMA 5-15 outlet.
The breakers would trip every time.
that would be true if breakers were accurate..
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25 ft and 12 awg should be ok. If anyone else is thinking of getting an extension cord, Harbor freight has a 10 awg 25 foot cord for about $40 which can let you have an extra level of comfort
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-Ft-x-10-Gauge-Triple-Tap-Extension-Cord-61993.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/25-Ft-x-10-Gauge-Triple-Tap-Extension-Cord-61993.html)
i would immediatly be cautious of ANYTHING harbor freight and would personally never connect my bike with one of their cords.
i understand we all need to watch our wallet's but saving $20 on a cord which may kill your $16,000 bike doesn't make much sense to me.
just my $0.02,
laramie ;)
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I've understood that Monoprice was good with fairly priced yet robust cables.
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My Monoprice 14AWG 25ft cable has been excellent on the road. I coil it broadly into my top case to minimize wear.
I have a 3-way splitter power cable of low gauge for my garage and occasionally for roadside backup. By the way, a 3-way splitter that is mated to a J1772 plug is a "cheater plug" and can be useful in a pinch. I have one of those as well, very short, just to plug into my onboard's cable.
Harbor Freight is okay for some basic things but I'm generally wary of them.
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I always tell people that Harbor Freight is a great place to buy tools that you plan to use
ONLY ONCE !
Not bad for what they are, just be aware of what you are buying.
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I've understood that Monoprice was good with fairly priced yet robust cables.
i have the 14G - 25ft cord and it works perfect. no problems at all.
laters,
laramie ;)
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My Monoprice 14AWG 25ft cable has been excellent on the road. I coil it broadly into my top case to minimize wear.
Seconded. The strain relief seems pretty decent and the molding seems good too. I've been using mine at home every day for six months or so, and haven't seen any sign of splitting, chafing or any other deterioration. It's never even gotten warm when charging at full power.
Considering the price, I wasn't expecting it to be as successful as it has for me.
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I'm amused a bit about how some of you are ok with a no-name cheap chinese power cord, but are afraid of a no-name but way overkill sized cheap chinese extension cord.
Pay less attention to what store it comes from, and more attention to the actual product.
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I believe I had no arcing originally, and I have no arcing right now (after charger replacement), but my charger was arcing lately before it burned out. Perhaps this is
an early sign of a defective charger ?
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The Harbor Freight cord is much better quality than those you would find at Home Depot or Lowes. Better strain resistance, slippery to avoid tangles, lighted ends, and good prong strength. I have used my cords from them for years to carry 30 amps at 240 volts and even tho that exceeds the recommended amperage, has performed perfectly over and over.
For those that are unhappy with the Harbor Freight cords, what was your complaint? I was very surprised to see the negative comments as I haven't found a higher quality cord anywhere. Definitely a step above what you can get the home improvement stores.
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The Harbor Freight cord is much better quality than those you would find at Home Depot or Lowes. Better strain resistance, slippery to avoid tangles, lighted ends, and good prong strength. I have used my cords from them for years to carry 30 amps at 240 volts and even tho that exceeds the recommended amperage, has performed perfectly over and over.
That is good to know!
For those that are unhappy with the Harbor Freight cords, what was your complaint? I was very surprised to see the negative comments as I haven't found a higher quality cord anywhere. Definitely a step above what you can get the home improvement stores.
Harbor Freight just varies a lot in quality by product category (I'm sure it just depends on what supplier they can get discounts from). I haven't tried their cords, but I've learned from friends to pick things there that won't have a heavy duty cycle.
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Harbor Freight just varies a lot in quality by product category.
That's one of the reasons I like Harbor Freight so much. If you need, say, a reciprocating saw, but doubt you're going to use it often, you can pick one up there that will work decently for the odd job and won't put much of a dent in your wallet. Or you can invest a few more dollars and pick up one of their house brand products (Chicago Electric I think?), which will do a good job for an amateur handyman for a long time, and still won't cost a bundle. And I have a friend who's a contractor, knows exactly what he's looking for in tools, and he shops there too, because he knows what he wants and needs, and he does find stuff that meets his standards. If you want to invest in a really good tool and you don't really know tools inside and out, Harbor Freight may not be the best place to shop. But they do cover the spectrum from very cheap to pretty high quality fairly well.
Power cables are no different. If you know what you're looking for, you can find a good cable for a good price, and being an EE, I'm convinced that the Monoprice 14AWG cables are good quality for a very good price. I haven't looked at Harbor Freight's cables or extension cords but I'd bet they run pretty much the same way, you can get a very cheap one or a pretty good quality one.
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Harbor Freight just varies a lot in quality by product category.
That's one of the reasons I like Harbor Freight so much. If you need, say, a reciprocating saw, but doubt you're going to use it often, you can pick one up there that will work decently for the odd job and won't put much of a dent in your wallet. Or you can invest a few more dollars and pick up one of their house brand products (Chicago Electric I think?), which will do a good job for an amateur handyman for a long time, and still won't cost a bundle. And I have a friend who's a contractor, knows exactly what he's looking for in tools, and he shops there too, because he knows what he wants and needs, and he does find stuff that meets his standards. If you want to invest in a really good tool and you don't really know tools inside and out, Harbor Freight may not be the best place to shop. But they do cover the spectrum from very cheap to pretty high quality fairly well.
Power cables are no different. If you know what you're looking for, you can find a good cable for a good price, and being an EE, I'm convinced that the Monoprice 14AWG cables are good quality for a very good price. I haven't looked at Harbor Freight's cables or extension cords but I'd bet they run pretty much the same way, you can get a very cheap one or a pretty good quality one.
I found the same thing... just because they sell some cheap crap, doesnt mean they dont sell other useful things...
I have harbor freight right angle grinders that have seen a decade of heavy use. Other than the right angle drive being louder than expensive ones, they work identically.
Since they're so much cheaper ( less than $15 vs $80+) I can get several of them and keep different things on them. So I have one with a cutoff wheel, another with a rough flap wheel, another with a fine flap wheel, another with a buffing pad (for plastics) etc...
Think about it.. what IS a right angle grinder? just a big AC motor in a case with gears for a right angle drive and a bearing/flange on the end. not really much too it. its not a precision tool. The only one of them to ever fail me is after 12 years of use, I wore out the brushes.
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Before one of my friends reminded me that Harbor Freight sold motorcycle-specific tools, the cheapest track stand I could find was a $60.00 one at Cycle Gear (and that was their "Discounted Price" for their store brand). Most were more expensive than that. I discovered Harbor Freight sold a perfectly good stand for HALF that price and it is in my garage now. Perfect for checking and adjusting the belt tension.
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I dusted off the Kill-A-Watt meter and measured this:
When charging at a ~30% state of charge I plugged the Kill-A-Watt meter in at the wall outlet and the average was 118.8 Volts and 11.1 amps.
Then, still charging, I plugged it in at the end of the 25' Extension cord and got a average of 117.0 Volts and 11.1 amps.
1.8 voltage drop and current stays the same (oh duh). As expected, plenty of margin on the current.
The amps are very consistent on the Kill-A-Watt and the Zero App (as I remember) is all over the place. I dont know if the Kill-A-Watt is displaying a trailing average or if the Zero/ Zero App is inaccurate in someway.
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I think the Zero app doesn't perform average smoothing.
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I think the Zero app doesn't perform average smoothing.
I did not think so, but it is strange to me that the current varies by ~ +/- 10%. Seem like something is wrong in the charger, measurement or app.
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I'm not frying the new charge cord after Zero fixed the terminals and terminal connection to wiring on my SR.
I also confirmed that the extension was fine, so the conclusion to my problem was the terminals connection and wringer on my SR.